people are good

[joekerr31]

hey guys,

very quick topic i wanted to throw out there. einstein once said...

“The most important decision we ever make is whether we believe we live in a friendly universe or a hostile universe.”

this is a critical issue that guys having problems with women need to think about.

we all know a thousand horror stories of one person f*cking over another, and we probably have a few stories of such occurance in our own lives.

but the pivotal issue in life is whether you believe that people are, in general, good or bad.

if you believe they are good, then you are going to be outgoing and you're going to be friendly and you're going to take an interest in people. you are going to ask out women and not fear rejection, because you aren't going to worry that some chic is going make you look like a fool.

if you think they are bad (which many people do, i believe as a result of conditioning that occurs in highschool where 'kids' are very shallow, immature and mean) then you are going to avoid people. you're going to be overly cautious.

see we talk about confidence, but i dont believe confidence really exists. i mean, most of us are just average people. we have no more to feel confident about than the next guy.

however, i do believe that if you see the people as good, that you will not be afraid to be yourself and to interact with them in an open manner. this comes across as confidence.

so i dont believe its possible to be 'confident' and also see peopel as bad. i don't believe its possible to 'that guy' who has the world by the balls if you are a guy who believes that the world is a hostile place where you are always a step away from getting screwed over.

and while yes, there are hostile people in the world, and yes there are peopel who will screw you over, i believe that most people are actually quite good.

im endlessly amazed at how nice strangers are when you spark a conversation with them in the elevator or while standing in line etc.

anyway something to think about.

when we tell guys to be the prize and to be confident, i wonder if instead we should be telling them to wrap their heads aroudn the possibility that you live in a world filled with nice people (not all, but most).

becuase i think if people believed this, they would be less self conscious about what others think about them and would be much more proactive about interacting with the world around them in a way that assumes that nothing but good things are going to come of it.

thoughts?

 

[reset]

so i dont believe its possible to be 'confident' and also see peopel as bad. i don't believe its possible to 'that guy' who has the world by the balls if you are a guy who believes that the world is a hostile place where you are always a step away from getting screwed over.

I don't think you can know the difference if you haven't experienced the opposite of people being cool to you. Once you've experienced both, and are sure that you'd prefer to just be with people who are cool to you, even if you come in contact with people who AREN'T, you don't have to get all worked up, don't have to fight them or anything. You just wish them well and move on.

The good thing about this place is we discuss boundaries, and being your best self. So you have sort of a shield--you seek out the best in people but after awhile the worst in people doesn't affect you as much, and you won't be associating with them anyway.

If you see the world as a scary, hostile place, then that's how you're going to see the world. You may have "success", but it will be at the expense of your life. You'll always be looking over your shoulder wondering when the next guy is going to try to screw you over. So most likely you'll become the guy who will screw other people over, so "they can't do it first."
That's no way to live. I don't see how you could be happy that way.

So seek out the best in people and if it's not reflected back to you, too bad, so sad, good luck with your life and move on.

 

[joekerr31]

I have no qualms with your post. Its good. But, I feel you've changed in the past couple weeks as a person/poster. Do you feel the same, or is it just me?

could be. i'm going through a rough time lately (won't bother to get in to it). plus its the holidays.

so its possible. i do think im moving away from 'strategies' and looking more at the big picture surrounding a lot of the issues we talk about here.

im getting more interested in the zen of things - that perspective on life where everything flows naturally. and more interested in which facets of life does one need to get a handle on not just to get into the flow now and then, but to live in that flow consistently.

i have considered no longer posting on sosuave because i do feel as though im falling out of synch with most of the conversations here. to be honest, the only reason i still chime in is that a variety of members have told me how much they appreciate my posts (although im sure many people think im full of hot air )

im less concerned with women (since the whole issues surrounding women to me are pretty old and straight forward at this point) and more concerned with discovering a new stage of evolution I can embark on - optimizing my personal self growth if you will.

 

[iqqi]

Your mindframe definately influences your life. In what you seek, and in what you get. I dig this post. I too think your tone seems to be changing.

 

[reset]

I know the feeling joekker... I came here wanting to learn about women but now I realize how it's not such a big deal. But I had to do a lot of posting and reading on women to keep seeing the same answer over and over "quit worrying about women, they aren't a big deal, just be chill and they will come, most important thing is to be happy."

What you're saying about zen is kind of where I am at, living a holistic life. Women are a piece of the puzzle but not the puzzle itself.

FWIW I spent a good portion of the day yesterday reading your posts in that "Banging my head" thread and I can already feel the healthier perspective on my own situation.

 

[Interceptor]

joekerr is just typing out a 'mind dump, that's all.
He's fine.

I do know that the Holiday season brings out many sides to people.
I do know, that we see another dimension of ourselfves, other people, and the world around us during this time.



I KNOW that Confidence EXISTS.

Confidence is a form of COURAGE.

Confidence is a mental attribute that is reflected in thought, speech, body language, and your decision making.

These all give the FUEL for YOUR COURAGE.

Courage is DOING WHAT is RIGHT.

Even in the face of FEAR, CHALLENGE, ADVERSITY, and other factors, including depression, etc.


Courage is that action of doing what is right.
IT gives you the emotional fuel to perform OUTSIDE of your Comfort Zone.

We have to all agree that in many ways wehave been conditioned to FEAR.
To build anxiety and apprehension.
What happens when e do not learn the sills to manage these htings rationally, and logically, to our benefit?

We operate out of FEAR. It affects every thing. Our thoughts, our speech, our actions, our relationships, our jobs, our hobbies or lack therof....our abiity to Love and BE Loved.............everything.
This is the Basis of the Scarcity Principle MindSET.


I can be a confident person and STILL handle difficult interpersonal crises and circumstances.
Wether they are good or bad, I know I have the emotional strength of my Center, to not be swayed TOO much off my path.


When you REACT negatively to a person, you are basically admitting how weak your Personal Boundary is, and just how much that ONE person AFFECTS you.
They got to you.


That's why one of our basic principles here is to never show or admit things like jealousy, envy, anger, anxiety to the woman you are attracted to...and ANYONE for that matter
It's just not something that we as mature masculine Men DO.
Or anyone who is mature.


First, logically if you REALLY WERE "The Man" you wouldn't be REACTING in such a manner.
You would be together, and keep your calm, and composure.

But the other thing is, you are demonstrating just HOW much of an EFFECT this person HAS ON YOU. Bt giving in and REACTING in some emotional outburst or action, you demonstrate your lack of Center. This is not healthy nor attractive for our purposed either.


You demonstrate just how MUCH your Happiness, Peace of Mind, and Well Being are DEPENDENT on them.
How can you be THAT dependent on someone for your Happiness, etc?
You shouldn't be.


Keep your composure in the face of sadness, loss, grief...

..in the face of adversity, offenses, disrespect.

You need to rise above those things.

You need to, You don't really have the luxury.

"There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see."

Your life must be examined. You must work on yourself, and figure out your behaviors, your thoughts, and actions.
Are they congruent to yourSELF?

Are you getting the circumstance you want in doing so?

Life unexamined, is not a Life at all....


If you feel lonely, it's because you do not know how to appreciate YourSELF.


BEING 'alone' is not shameful.
No one should be ashamed they are alone.
You are not worth less.
You are not unLoveable.

Feeling lonely is only a misdirection of your attention.

Dwelling on it, only exacerbates the condition. And negative thoughts keep flooding your mind. It can be a vicous cycle.


You do not have the perspective on recognizing your true worth and value as a human being.

As a result, we give in to our primal tendency to think negatively, and project our insecurities and negativity on everything around us.

We then begin to feel lonely, sad.....desperate.

BE Kind to yourSELF. You are worth it and deserve it.
Be your OWN Best Friend.

Be appreciative of the things you do have.
And keep your eye on the goals and dreams you have set out to reach and live.

 

[insidious]

I suspect revisiting your 'topic sentence' would be best in order to
address your point. You strayed from it, I feel.

The universe. Good or hostile. Why, the answer is "neither." Sometimes I wonder what Albert Einstein really meant when he wrote that. The universe just is. It is exempt from value judgements. Only we, as people, can shape the universe into something pallatable and groovy, or something awful and formidable and deadly. Which do we choose?

People and their natures are similarly gray. People just are. It's beyond our control...only our interpretations and expectations of other's behavior is mallable, and those are the only aspects of human nature we have any control over.

You expect good, you'll be blindsided by bad; you expect bad, you'll definitely be blindsided by good and perhaps not even recognize it.

 

[guru1000]

We operate out of FEAR. It affects every thing. Our thoughts, our speech, our actions, our relationships, our jobs, our hobbies or lack therof....our abiity to Love and BE Loved.............everything.
This is the Basis of the Scarcity Principle MindSET.


I can be a confident person and STILL handle difficult interpersonal crises and circumstances.
Wether they are good or bad, I know I have the emotional strength of my Center, to not be swayed TOO much off my path.


When you REACT negatively to a person, you are basically admitting how weak your Personal Boundary is, and just how much that ONE person AFFECTS you.
They got to you.


That's why one of our basic principles here is to know show or admit things like jealousy, envy, anger, anxiety to the woman you are attracted to...and ANYONE for that matter
It's just not something that we as mature masculine Men DO.
Or anyone who is mature.


First, logically if you REALLY WERE "The Man" you wouldn't be REACTING in such a manner.
You would be together, and keep your calm, and composure.

.

Well Said.

 

[KarmaSutra]

I agree that there has been a significant change in tonality when Brother Joekerr posts here in the last few weeks. Though it may be due to a paradigm shift or life reflection it's perfectly natural to turn your own world upside down and realize what it is we're supposed to be doing.

This is precisely why I'll quote Reset with this little gem:

Women are a piece of the puzzle but not the puzzle itself.

This is one of the secrets of Boundary Respect. Philosophers, Sociologists, Teachers and even the Scarecrow have been expounding on this for ages and the result is the same. Self respect and, more importantly, self reliance is what we should always have as a target and reach the summit of our own mountain.

 

[KontrollerX]

I don't think of people as good or bad.

I just think of us as animals that are affected and affect others by whatever beliefs, needs, wants or desires they/we have in the moment.

Sometimes all this comes together to be beneficial for us and other times it comes together to screw us over.

Good?

Bad?

Nah, just an animal that does what is believed is the best thing for it at the time.

Or to sum it up as Chancellor Palpatine would say it from Episode III Revenge of the Sith...

"Good is a point of view Anakin."

 

[KarmaSutra]

Or to sum it up as Chancellor Palpatine would say it from Episode III Revenge of the Sith...

"Good is a point of view Anakin."

A Brother who can successfully and purposefully use a Star Wars reference is ok in my book! :yes:

I'll expound with one of my favorite film quotes:

Overlord Damaskinos: "In the web, who does God favor, the spider or the fly?"

 

[RedPill]

Didn't Einstein also say something about relativity?

A human mind is ever-changing in its sets of beliefs, values, attitudes, experiences, habits, and reasoning capacities.

Take the mental attributes of a diverse group of people, and apply them across many environments (e.g. social, physical, political), under many different conditions. Such a simulation would show how each person reacts to their respective environments based on how their minds perceive are the best ways to deal with the given conditions. Some of us are fortunate enough to have been exposed to more efficient ways of thinking than others, and some of us just plain work harder to rewire ourselves. Either way you slice it, good and bad are little more than binary descriptions of opposing agendas.

We're all seeking to fulfill things driven by internal motives. Sometimes our current attitudes and beliefs compel us to behave destructively to satisfy those motives. The assumption that the universe, and in turn, people are inherently friendly or hostile is flawed in the sense that it is both friendly and hostile, depending on which side of the coin you're on. If one could ask a polar bear and a tropical plant their thoughts on global warming, which do you think believes we live in a hostile universe?

At the end of the day, most of us who live in the same civilization with each other have many shared motives. We're all trying to get by, get our business done, and find more time to focus on the things that are important to us. Thus, as you state it joekerr, most people tend to be reasonable and personable as they recognize their own needs in others.

Black and White, Friendly and Hostile, Quality Woman™ and Attention WhΘre

Binary thinking is useful for making quick decisions based on gut instinct, but is far too limiting to apply to situations which require more careful consideration. Aggressive assumption and accurate assessment are inversely related to each other. It's lazy to make assumptions using binary logic in matters of significance when one has the opportunity to consider the full range of possibilities.

In a split second you might know if you find a woman attractive and assume you'd enjoy her in bed, but employing that same binary thinking and using assumptions of all women to decide whether she's worth the time and energy to maintain a relationship could result in a sharp deviation from unconsidered expectations.

Knowing when it does and when it doesn't make sense to employ binary thinking is a function of maturity, experience, and retained wisdom.

 

[Phyzzle]

This is the finest article I've ever read on the limits of the innate goodness of human beings.

 

[Interceptor]

I wanted to add a little bit more insight on my postion in not demonstrating emotions such as jealousy, envy anger, etc.

What I would like to get across is that as men, we should have a strong Emotional Center. In that, we FEEL our emotions thoroughly. We are not AFRAID to FEEL.

But we are not swayed or directed BY THEM at ALL times. In that, we don't go off the 'deep end". We have balance.

What I want Men to understand is that you SHOULD be in TOUCH with your FEELINGS.

It is not bad. It is not being weak. It is no being Femenine in a negative connotation. MEn feel their Masculinity, and their Masculinity contains Emotions.

I am asking Men to understand that we are supposed to Respond, not React.

Respond .............not be UNRESPONSIVE.

BEing UNRESPONSIVE is akin to being "Dead" Inside.
This is not what I am trying to get across. That's NOT Masculinity. That's more like being an unfeeling Sociopath. That's being Disconnected to YOURSELF.

You can state that you are discontent or disappointed with an outcome of a situation, or a partner's behavior. INfact, you should.

You are supposed to.

That is a delineation of Your Personal Boundary.

It is.
Plain and simple.

Don't React.
INstead Respond.

Don't be UNRESPONSIVE.

But do not go into any extremes.

State what it is you want,. an state what you disagree with. Especially when you are working to an outcome for your benefit.

Iti s being assertive.

BUT..

...ALL of this comes from a Mind Set.
A strong emotional center which makes sure you do not get carried away. That you don't lose your Objectivity, and continue mature, responsible, Win/Win Decision Making.

A funny analogy that cam to me some time ago was this;
If you had a Million Dollars in your bank account, would you be exasperated and anxious and lose all perspective and control over losing ten dollars?

Would you?

Probably not.

You would probably laugh at my example. And if tis was a real life situaiton for you, you wouldn't even think twice. Your mind set is geared for understanding proper healthy perspective for such things like this. Well, hopefully, it is already and/or it will be.

But now look at your dealings with the opposite sex.
Do you remember the times you lost it? Or became needy, desperate, over emeotional, overly sensitive, and easily offended??


But place yourself in a position when you're dealing with a female, in any capacity, or a male, friend or foe.
Do you have control?
Are you truly above thes thigs? Can you function objectively, genuinely without neediness, scarcity minmdset, and with reasonable security?

Are you goin gto be fine whatever the outcome?

It all is a basic mindset principle. It all comes form you Inner Self.

What you demonstrate on the outside is often what you maintain on the Inside.

 

[ketostix]

I think the main thing to take away from Joekerr's post is that if you have the expectation of people being bad, then for all intents and purposes it's the same thing as lacking confidence in dealing with others and will come across or be conveyed as lack of confidence.

I do think a lot of it does come down to not letting the world or people discourage you or make you doubt you can succeed at something, getting women or whatever. In other words not letting your confidence be ruined. The world is both good and bad obviuously. I think most people start out as ****eyed optimist when they're young and they get a good taste of reality and stagnate.

Positivity and assuming the best in others can get you postivity in return and get you ahead a lot of time but not all the time. You need positivity plus a thick skin.

 

[romangod]

im getting more interested in the zen of things - that perspective on life where everything flows naturally. and more interested in which facets of life does one need to get a handle on not just to get into the flow now and then, but to live in that flow consistently.


You are on the right path and growing as a person. Keep up the good work. I enjoy your posts which are quite mature and enlightened. You seem to realize that happiness is more than just getting pu**y. As soon as others here realize that they'll get more than they ever bargained for. Happiness, I mean.

And yes, people are genuinely "good". I discovered this first-hand with a recent brush with death. They're goodness woke me up to the truth.


.

 

[STR8UP]

But I feel when it comes to down to things like money, we will see the true evil human beings are capable of...

Wanna find out how much you are worth to someone? Put a pile of your money in front of them and keep adding to it until they grab it and run.

I'm not talking literally, of course, but I learned some tough lessons about friendship and money over the last few years. To me money has little value. I could have pennies or millions. You can always make more money, you can't always replace good friends.

Anyway, as far as the original topic goes, I think someone else already said it, but people are neither good nor bad. People are just people. It is what it is. You can sit around and complain about it or you can learn to live alongside everyone else.

I will say one thing though.

If I HAD to say good or bad, I would say bad. The only reason for this is because we are SELFISH creatures, no different than any other species on the planet. You can say "Well we don't live in caves anymore, we are beyond that" but you can say whatever you want, when it comes down to it everyone is wired to look out for #1. If we weren't wired that way, our species would have died out within a few generations.

This doesn't mean you can't live a happy life amidst the chaos, but you gotta understand that when someone does something nice for you they are actually doing something for themselves, either for conscious or (usually) unconscious reciprocation, or because they gain satisfaction from it. People don't do good to do good. There is no such thing as selflessness.

I am re-reading Influence, the Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini. Amazing author, great public speaker, well versed on what goes on behind the curtain. Talks all about this stuff. One of the best books of all time if you are into that sort of thing.

 

[KontrollerX]

"Anyway, as far as the original topic goes, I think someone else already said it, but people are neither good nor bad. People are just people. It is what it is. You can sit around and complain about it or you can learn to live alongside everyone else."

Heh heh that would be me and Karma then agreed with me.

Anyway people need to wake up.

Believing that humans are inherently good is magical fairytale land type thinking.

Now I don't blame anyone for believing this as we are force fed so much programming growing up and socialization crap its staggering but anyway...

We're more or less born neutral at birth neither bad nor good neither indoctrinated or lacking belief in anything we just are but as we grow older and can begin critical mature thinking we then make choices every day to benefit ourselves.

To some person a choice of ours appears good and they are benefitted by it and see us as good as a result but to another person that very same choice we made that benefitted someone else harmed them greatly and we are seen as bad by that person as a result of that.

Then the question becomes well we made this choice are we a good or bad human being for it?

The answer once again all comes down to whose point of view you are being looked at from.

One man's hero is another man's villain.

Selfless acts do not exist.

People do seemingly good things either to score brownie points with their god of choice, because it makes them feel satisfied or because it adheres to their moral code and they want to check off an item for the day.

There is nothing on this earth done for truly selfless reasons.

 

[joekerr31]

I dunno, its this time of the year I feel like ripping out someone's throat the most. But I feel when it comes to down to things like money, we will see the true evil human beings are capable of...

anyways I'm just rambling

do you think? or this merely a condition of youth?
like do you think most people would take a million dollars to turn a blind eye to a pedophile raping a child?
would most people take a million dollars that was allocated to feed starving children?

are people really fueled by money alone?

call me crazy but i don't think so.

 

[joekerr31]

im getting more interested in the zen of things - that perspective on life where everything flows naturally. and more interested in which facets of life does one need to get a handle on not just to get into the flow now and then, but to live in that flow consistently.


You are on the right path and growing as a person. Keep up the good work. I enjoy your posts which are quite mature and enlightened. You seem to realize that happiness is more than just getting pu**y. As soon as others here realize that they'll get more than they ever bargained for. Happiness, I mean.

And yes, people are genuinely "good". I discovered this first-hand with a recent brush with death. They're goodness woke me up to the truth.


.

this is what im talking about. i've alwys thought in terms of risk and reward - that people will do what is right when there is something in it for them (and not just a 'good' feeling).

i always thought that women ultimately were driven by the desire to attain safety and security. and that men were driven to attain power and status (which ultimately provides safety and security). and while people do seek to have a better life, im beginning to think there are A LOT more people out there who do whats right simply becuase its right. who are kind and caring and who will help someone else without expecting anything in return.

i think there are way more miraculous people out there in the world than one might first suspect.