PART 1 - I guess I'm dating a chick with BPD, please help if you have experience

[sexysuave]

Hey guys,

I haven't posted on here in a while. I use to give advice more than ask for it, but now I actually have some serious questions. I was in a 6 year relationship that ended about 2 and a 1/2 years ago and I had a GREAT run for about a year and a half where I was really having awesome success picking up chicks for very short term flings, one night stands, and f**k buddy relationships where all we do is meet up and do our thing. I also did party a lot which of course always led to meeting more chicks. I mean, the run I had was pretty epic and I even thought about writting a book about it under an alias name. I did already write chapters about certain pick-ups at gas station, grocery stores, malls, pretty much everywhere and anywhere. I would approach girls like a man on a mission and had just damn great success and some stories that people probably wouldn't even believe 'cause they would think I was exagarating.

Life was pretty damn good and care free. Well, over time, I started to miss the feeling of having that "special someone" in your life, and every now and then I would actually start considering maybe starting to "date" some of the girls in my social circle that I knew had interest in me.

Then I ran into my current girlfriend, who at the time (I didnt' know), was only 2 weeks out of her 9 month relationship with her ex. We hit it off immediately and she seemed to be everything I could ever ask for. She was absolutely beautiful with a body that just turned me on big time. She seemed to be VERY into me VERY early and even started saying things like "I think we're soulmates" after only a few weeks because she found some things we had in common or what not. Needless to say, I ATE IT ALL UP. She treated me absolutely great and the sex was mind boggling and awesome. I honestly thought I struck gold and considered my self pretty damn lucky to be able to find someone like this. I seriously started thinking that maybe she IS my soulmate after all.

Well, as the time went on, I started noticing things that would raise red flags, but I either didn't wanna make a big deal about it or didn't wanna see it for what it truly might have been. For example, she ended up telling me that she is "difficult to put up with" and that she has been in at least 3 or 4 semi-serious relationships and I guess has been screwed over and cheated on, so now she is really paranoid about being lied to/ cheated on/ screwed over. I figured ok, I dont' plan on doing any of that so eventually she will relax and learn to trust me. But I guess her scars were so deep that she still cannot fully trust and believe everything. She has told me that evertime I say somethign like "oh, I've got somethign to tell you" or one of her friends tells her, "call me, I have somethign to tell you" that a million scenarios (worst case scenarios about me cheating and what not) run through her head and she freaks her self out big time. Then when she hears a story that is just a normal stupid story, she tells her self "oh ok, it's nothign bad" but she still sort of remembers how freaked out she got.

I have been with her for 9 months so far, and in the last half a year she has had 2 big tantrums where she just lost it and wanted to just "leave, move away, go away, disapear, not be alive,, whatever".. The thing about it is, the day before, or the very same day of this, she told me things such as "I love you to death, I love you forever, I never wanna be away from you, I wanna marry you, I wanna have your kids, you're so awesome, as long as you treat me good and be fair I'll never be away from you" and then later on that day or the next day is when she had those breakdowns because of 1) She heard somethign on the radio about how many husbands cheat on their wifes and lie about it and she just lost it. She called me tellign me what they said and I said "oh ok, that's a sucky statistic" and then she went into if I would do that to her and I said "huh? of course not" and then she started going on all about it and I was like "are you serious now, you're getting THIS upset over somethign you heard on the radio talk show?" And she just started freaking her self out more and more, even talked about my ex and said "if she called you you would go running back to her (not true, my ex wanted to get back plenty of times in the first year or so, I never even once saw her), so I got mad naturally and told her to knock it off and she was blowing everything out of proportion.

She was freaked out that night and wanted to get in her car and leave, and it took her like 2 days to completely calm down and she appologized big time and said that she loves me more than anything and it was just a breakdown. She blamed it on being hurt in the past and feeling like she is never good enough for anybody and this and that. Well that was about 4 months ago.

She also constantly asks me if I really do love her, wanna be with her, and to promise that I won't leave her and this and that (she has huge abandonment issues obviously) and has told me that sometimes she is worried about being left so rather than be hurt eventually that's why she though about just leaving and running away from it all.

Oh, almost forgot, we can never say "good bye" because she is afraid of those words, she hates good byes! Even a bye is bad sometimes in her eyes, (not just with me, even her friends). She would rather say "talk to you later, kisses" or somethign silly like that, because she "hates good byes". Well, at first I thoght it was kinda cute. I just assumed ok she loves me so much she can't stand to hear a good bye from me. It was only much later when I started to actually think that this might be a phsychological problem that goes back to scars in the past and fear of abandonment of any sort.

Just last week, things were going absolutely awesome, she has been pretty great since, and once again filled my head with so many "I love yous, soulmate, together forever, family, kids bla bla" that I believed it all and felt pretty damn comfortable about us ending up together. She talked about moving in with me once I end up proposing to her (we thought within a year or so would be a good time to propose), and started looking at some furniture together and other things and everything felt really good.

Well that same morning on her way to work she called me and told me how she loves me unbelievably much, how all she ever wants is to make me happy, how she can't wait to marry me and all this. Well, that night she got into an argument with her family, her family pretty much had a "talk with her" and told her some things that were aparently very unpleasant. It left her feeling like she was unworthy, not good enough for them, never can do anything right, all this stuff. As soon as she called I knew something was wrong and she told me about the talk with parents (the initial issue her parents had a problem with was total bulls**t, I dont' know what else was said or other things, but the concern that started the talk was total BS since her parents have always been very old school, but it was such BS that no one else would ever say somethign about it). So I told her to relax (she was breathing hard, and saying how she doesn't feel good enough for anyone). She said that at the moment she wishes God would just take her away, and that she didnt' exist. I told her to calm the hell down and that she was overreacting to the situation. I told her that I dont' know what else is said, and while I like her parents, they are clearly wrong in this situation.

She said that they obviously don't think she is good enough or ever did anything right in her life and that she just feels like a piece of crap and like she shouldn't even exist and should just move away. I said "move away without me" and she said "yes". I asked her how come just this very morning she told me how she cant' be without me and wants to marry me and be with me so bad, and in course of one day, where I didn't even do anything wrong, she wants to move away "without me" and just be "left alone". She coudlnt' really explain this nor did she try, just pretty much said that she is "not good enough for me" and that I would be "happier without her". She says taht she just wishes she was DEAD right now. At this point I raised my voice and told her to "calm the f**k down" and that she is blowing the situation outta proportion and way overreacting. I told her that she is a grown up (she is 23 by the way) and a college graduate, she should be able to know when her parents are wrong. She says that she thinks "I dont' love her" and I'm like "huh, hwere is this coming from" and she is like I dunno, I just don't think you love me. Needless to say, I wasn't too happy, and did tell her that "if you really don't wanna be with me, than don't be with me", and she went on to say that it's not that, that I dont' understand, that I will never understand, that I'm better off without her. after we said good night and got off the phone, she sent me a text message "I dont' wanna be with you".


END OF PART 1, PLEASE READ PART 2
Ok, sorry this is long, but I have to write the second part right below this one, as this one is starting to exceed the limits, so I will reply right below here for the second part. Thanks for reading!!

 

[sexysuave]

PART 2 - I guess I'm dating a chick with BPD, please help if you have experience

I though ok fine, and let it go, didnt' even respond. Next morning, she writes appologizing for last night and how she is sorry for saying what she said. I dont' say much, just "ok". And then she goes into "I hate it how you always would just let me go and never fight to keep me, that makes me think you dont' really care". I tell her "look, YOU'RE the one who said you wanted to move, and leave, and not be with me, I told you from day one, I will NEVER try to keep someone who doesn't truly wanna be with me. That's why I asked you and told you, if you don't wanna be with me, please don't." She kept saying "I DO wanna be with you, but I dunno if I can, I dotn' feel like I'm good enough, I dont' know WHY you love me, I can't understand why you would love me". Needless to say, I didn't know what the hell was going on here, how can EVERYTHING be so perfect for a long time, and then at the DROP OF A HAT, change just like that. Well that day she ended up saying I love you and miss you and how she is sorry and then she came over after work and bought me stuff at the mall and what not and brought it over.

Well, that day, I did a lot of research online about this weird fu***ng behavior and came across a site on BPD, and then it HIT ME RIGHT IN THE FACE... I mean, just about everything they had on that, described her. I kept reading for hours and hours, and was just amazed. I didn't really know much or anything about this disorder before. I WISH I knew a long time ago because it explains a lot of things, the highs and lows, the insecurity, the blowing the love outta proportion, early, all of it. Hell, even the flirtiness of it, as when I first started talking to her she wanted to let me know that she is VERY flirty and sometimes doesn't mean to be, but it might be how it's perceived because she just "loves" people.

Almost forgot, the first time I met her was actually in the few months of her previous relationship, but they were broken up for three days when I met her, so she was technically "single" at the time since they were broken up. Well I actually ended up giving her a back massage this very same night while her and her girlfriend were driving in front and me and my buddy in the back. I thought it was weird that she woudl just let me rub her shoulders and I just met her that same night (we were just driving to a different club with them in the car, didnt' do anythign else that night). But at the time I just thought well maybe she is just very into me and that's how come she let me run her shoulders. She was pretty flirty and I developed IMMEDIATE attraction, even gave her my number. We texted for a minute the next morning but she did not wanna hang out and I let it go and didn't text her after that, few days later I heard she was back with her boyfriend so I just left it at that. Throughout our relationshpin so far, especially earlier on, there were a few times where I though she might have been a little flirty or too friendly with a couple of people, some of my friends as well, but I just blew it off as me being paranoid. I haven't seen much of it later on in the relationship so that's good. But still not pleasant to think about.

She says taht she has NEVER cheated on anyone in a relationship. She considers it a cardinal sin, and says that if I cheat on her, no matter how much she loves me, that would be it. I told her the same, at least a few times, that I will not tolerate it regardless of where we are in life. She agrees.

Well, that same night she came over and brough me some gifts, that's the night I read about BPD and realized that she HAD to have this. Reading up so much on it, I was able to better understand her and when she talked about last night and appologized for saying those things and saying that she really does love me and want to be with me but is just scared taht I will eventually leave her and this and that, I started using some of the strategies I read about with dealing with BPD people. I talked for a bit and told her how I understood how much her parents upset her and how it mush have been horrible, and told her when I was a teenager I felt like that a couple of times after some argumetns with my parents, where I also wanted to just disapear and wished I wasn't born. After some convo like this she broke down and cried pretty bad and was having a hard time breathing. I kept holding her and telling her that it's "ok".

She then took a deep breath and said "4 years ago I was diagnosed with mild depression and anxiety" I just listened as she told me more and told her that it was "ok" and that I was sort of starting to pick up on it a little bit. She said that she figured I would eventually pick up on it and after what I told her tonight (oh and I also told her that I didn't think much of it when a few weeks ago she said every single day of her life she has an internal conflict in her where she is trying not to think about fears and negative things and being left alone and what not, I just kinda didn't think much of it, thought she was blowing sh*t outta proportion, but after I read the BPD deal, I understood more). She said that after the things I told her that night, she figured I knew more about it and that's why she fessed up to it. She says she wanted to tell me at least a few times but never worked up the courage, and that she is glad I was being understanding and taking it well.

She told me that now I would understand more that she does truly love me and wanna be with me, and didnt' really mean it when she said she wanted to "move away to go away from everyone" and really was just feeling unwanted and like a piece of crap at the time. She has in the last few days been nothing but great and happy, and telling me over and over how much in love she is with me.

She has seen a therapist a few times, and does have medication (she hasn't taken it in a while since she didn't like how the medicine controls her mood to always be the same. While she doesnt' like the "lows" and feeligns of depression, she also missed her "highs" and feelings of total good and awesome). I asked her that for the meantime, if she could please go back to taking her pills and she promissed that she will. I also told her that there is nothign wrong in seeing a therapist again, but she was a little hesitant about it and said she didnt' like telling a therapist everything and she felt like they didn't really care about her. I told her these are probably parts of the symptoms, that if the therapist didn't care about people, he woulnd't be in that field. She said she woudl consider it, especially if she has anymore episodes of freaking out.

Well, I sort of write a lot, so if you made it this far, thanks much! I hope you can see my dilema here. I love this girl, our time together for the most part is great, sex is just down right unbelievable and I just always feel like I wanna screw her. (my ex of 6 years was BLAH, she would just lay there, and it just wasn't anything comapred to this). She has made me feel VERY close to her with everything she has said, HOWEVER, after reading so much on this disorder, it's making me question how much of it is actually true and how much of it is her just needing to always have someone and be loved and not be abandoned. I'm also worried because I read that BPD people are also more likely to cheat, which would be a deal breaker for me. She SAYS that she HAS NEVER cheated on a boyfriend and WILL NEVER EVER cheat, BUT, right now those just words for me.

I also read that BPD make for more risky mothers, as the children might have some of the behavior as well. Honestly, after reading all I read, I was just gonna let her go and not call her again if she didn't come back that very next day. I think it would have been a lot easier for me to stay away now that I know all this. She also did say that she was scared to tell me about her disorder because she didnt' want me to look at her different or leave her because of it. She also pleaded me not to tell ANYONE about it (I told my brother, who is my best friend).

Here is what I'm thinking at the moment: I'm gonna stay with her and see, now that she knows I know about her disorder, if we can make things work and talk about her insecurities more rationally as they arise. However, if she throws another complete tantrum and says she wants to leave and doesn't wanna be with me, I will quickly ride along with that and let the whole thing go. I will obviously have to be very strong and probably come back to this board and also talk to my brother about it so I can have a strong support system if it ends, taht way I dont' get suckered back in.

I do hope that it works out and that she is ok now that we both know the truth, and that she doesnt' have frantic episodes anymore, but after everything I've read, I have my doubts. RIGHT NOW it seems impossible that she will freak out again, with the way we seem to love and respect each other and have things figured out. HOWEVER, I have felt that security before as well, only to have it crash at the DROP OF A HAT, over something I didn't even do.

So, dear friends, if you have had experience with DPD, please comment and let me know your thoughts or your experiences. This is my first time, that I know of, having serious relations with BPD person. Have any of you had and still have a SUCCSESSFULL relationship with BPD? Is there hope long term? Her parents have been together all their life and her siblings are in successfull long term relationships as well, without any signs of infidelity, but I don't think they have BPD. Any thoughts?

Thanks for reading and thanks for any thoughts.

 

[5string]

Check your pm's.

 

[Ace_Magnamus]

No girl that has BPD can be in a successful relationship.

The outburts, cheating, depression, loathing makes it impossible to handle

A constant drama roller coaster each day

Best advice is... if you know.....you don't go.....then when you know...you go away

 

[The_411]

Trust me it's not worth it. It only gets worse and when she said she had been screwed over... she was projecting and she actually screwed those guys over.

Put it this way if you had a relationship with a woman who caused you to lose your job, check into an outpatient psych ward, and basically turn you into a sniveling mess after it ended would it be worth it?

Because that's what happened to me.

Your whole relationship is walking on eggshells not knowing one day from the next if she's going to be super happy, depressed, into you, hating you, etc.

You always wodner if the smallest thing will set her off and if she'll throw a tantrum because of someone driving too fast, or some perceived slight that happens 1000x a day that normal sane people don't even pay attnetion to ...

If that doesn't scare you then please do continue and you'll get to see it first hand ...

I left out the fake suicide attempts, the fake illinesses etc because I didn't personally go through it but it has happened many a time to others.

go to bpdcentral.com and read some stories if you are still not sure, especially check out the fmaily section the stories are incredible (in a negative way)

 

[Dannyrt34]

I dated a BPD girl for 2 years and I suggest you just get out now!

One thing I noticed is that someone with BPD is a great liar/manipulator. They could lie to you so easily and comfortably that it's almost impossible not to believe them. I'm lucky that the girl I was with had friends that actually wanted to help me see the light. They revealed all of her lies to me.

The tantrums get worse as time goes on. They constantly accuse you of cheating. We couldn't even go out to a public place without me being accused of checking out other girls. She even slapped me in public for going to the bathroom without telling her and she didn't know where I was. So she thought I went to hit on other girls. I'm telling you, its rediculous.

It will also end badly, if you break up with a BPD girl. DO NOT do it at your house. She will break all of your expensive ****, and when you say your calling the police, she'll manipulate you even more by saying something like "go ahead and call them and I'll just tell them your beating me" And you know in domestic disputes it's always going to be the guy that cops are more suspicious of.

Just get out now and find yourself a nice girl. I finally found one after being scared to date for a while lol. Got me a smart, nice girl that loves the outdoors and being active with me. And I think you should do it too.

 

[sexysuave]

Wow, thanks everyone! yeah, I've done some more research on it today as well. I keep reading up on it. This is all nuts, and so much of it I can relate to her. It's scary that at the present moment she has me feeling like I"m the absolutely most important thing in the world. But like I said, I HAVE felt like this before, only to have it change at the DROP OF A HAT, over some sh*t that, as you guys say, normal people wouldn't even notice. I think the next time the "hat drops" I will just give in to her "I'm not good enough for you, bla bla bla" and just say "ok, I wish you the best of luck" and see how it goes.

FYI, she has never done this fake, trying to leave, "I'm not good enough" deal in person, it was always either on the phone or text message. So next time if she does it, I'll just wish her the best of luck in her future endavors.

I'll keep reading more on this. I think it's helping me see a whole lot. It's definitely clearing up things for me and making it a WHOLE lot more easier to be able to let her go. She made me feel like she NEVER felt about anyone like this before, but after putting some pieces together, she was probably telling that to all her boyfriends, who knows.

I'm not gonna lie, I do love her right now, but I am VERY VERY wary right now that I have read all of the information. I pretty much just thought I had an awesome girl who was a little damaged from her past but that eventually she would see that I was a great and trustworthy guy and that she woudl ease up and trust me more and relax and not throw fits and get depressed over stupid stuff.

It will be much more easier to leave knowing all this. Thanks again, and I will keep reading info on it!

 

[AlexDP]

Wow, thanks everyone! yeah, I've done some more research on it today as well. I keep reading up on it. This is all nuts, and so much of it I can relate to her. It's scary that at the present moment she has me feeling like I"m the absolutely most important thing in the world. But like I said, I HAVE felt like this before, only to have it change at the DROP OF A HAT, over some sh*t that, as you guys say, normal people wouldn't even notice. I think the next time the "hat drops" I will just give in to her "I'm not good enough for you, bla bla bla" and just say "ok, I wish you the best of luck" and see how it goes.

FYI, she has never done this fake, trying to leave, "I'm not good enough" deal in person, it was always either on the phone or text message. So next time if she does it, I'll just wish her the best of luck in her future endavors.

I'll keep reading more on this. I think it's helping me see a whole lot. It's definitely clearing up things for me and making it a WHOLE lot more easier to be able to let her go. She made me feel like she NEVER felt about anyone like this before, but after putting some pieces together, she was probably telling that to all her boyfriends, who knows.

I'm not gonna lie, I do love her right now, but I am VERY VERY wary right now that I have read all of the information. I pretty much just thought I had an awesome girl who was a little damaged from her past but that eventually she would see that I was a great and trustworthy guy and that she woudl ease up and trust me more and relax and not throw fits and get depressed over stupid stuff.

It will be much more easier to leave knowing all this. Thanks again, and I will keep reading info on it!

That she does it on the phone is yet another indicator of BPD. Few BPD girls will break up with you in person and most will just text about their darker feelings. This is because when you're not around, they feel abandoned. People with BPD have object constancy issues, which means they cannot recover images of their loved ones in their minds to soothe themselves. It is not just about lovers either. Have you ever noticed how she could miss her parents or siblings very intensely? If you're not around all the time, for a borderline that pretty much means you might be dead.

But they do miss you, because they don't really have a developed personality. They need someone to mirror and when you're not there, they feel as if they're nothing. In turn this means they become very dependent on you and in the end they will resent you for it, because they basically become your slave. They interpret you not being around as punishing them. This builds up all the time and as borderlines do not trust you enough to talk about the things they don't like about you (they're too scared you'll leave) it generally explodes at one point. This is when they split you black and you become the devil to them. When this happens, in their eyes you must be punished.

Who you are and what you do doesn't matter, my friend. The borderline isn't able to see you as a person. She sees you as an object, as a onedimensional version of you. She isn't able to grasp the totality of who you are, as she isn't able to see your good sides and your bad sides at the same time. You sound like you already desperately want her to see you as a good person, but I highly suggest you do not let your happiness depend on the judgment of a borderline. Her judgment is not only flawed, it will also turn against you sooner or later. There are rare LTR with borderlines which do work out, but they require a great deal of effort on the part of the non. There are two options really: either he loves her so much he has no boundaries at all (and he suffers throughout the relationship) or he is able to completely detach emotionally from all of her bull**** (this is not as easy as you might think it is).

If I were you, I'd try to explain her what you think is going on. I would avoid calling it BPD though. To her that will sound as if you're judging her and she's not ready for emotionally. Try to talk to her about what you feel is going wrong. Use words that express feelings, never present your opinions as fact. Ask her how she feels too. If she says something completely nonsensical, try to validate her feelings by saying stuff like "I understand how you feel and it must be frustrating for you, but I feel like..". However, I would suggest doing these things to try and walk away without it becoming a huge mess. You could use these techniques (and others) to try and continue the relationship, but I would advise against it.

 

[AlexDP]

Also, I forgot to add, you have to consider that even a short relationship with a borderline will have a deep impact. They are very good at connecting on what seems to be a deep level. This is because they play into your emotional weaknesses too. You probably felt as if you already knew her. And you do. Guys who are really 100% confident in themselves never get involved with a borderline. It's time to ask yourself why you're in this relationship. It probably has to do with you feeling you don't deserve true love. On some level you like her drama. You like to raise her and you like the childlike love she has for you. When she resents you, that feels bad, but you sort of like the bad feelings she gives you too. There's usually an element of emotional sadomasochism on the part of the non-bpd as well. You should look into that, otherwise you would never have been in a 9 month relationship with someone like that.

 

[sexysuave]

AlexDP, ha ha, you are absolutely right. Hell, even after only a month with her, I felt VERY VERY connected and she made it seem like she was so into me and pretty much I started feeling like I might have "found the one".

Unlike my ex of 6 years, this chick seemed to give me a LOT more attention and said so many things to make me feel good about my self ("you are just perfect", "you are the best babe", "it's never been like this before"). She also did her fair share of paying for meals and other items and at times would just insist that I let her pay (my ex. on the other hand never wanted to pay for ANYTHING, as she was raised to think it was always the guys responsibility as a "gentleman"). So these things also played into me getting closer to her.

Now, the 3 or 4 times that she has tried saying "you are too good for me, I dont' understand why you love me, I don't think I deserve you", (now that i think about it, this always happened at bedtime, before we would pass out in our respective bedrooms) she has always contacted me immediately the next morning and apologized for saying that and that she just "freaked out" and is scared that I might not really love her or that I might leave her and that she loves me and wants more than anything to be with me.

She has never actually broke up with me and ignored me or anything like that (not yet anyway). Even when she had her episodes of "I'm not worthy enough" we would talk about it for a bit until we both passed out and in the morning she would be apologizing and wanting to hang out.

She also has NEVER yelled at me at all, not even once. This is something different that I noticed while doing research thus far, seems like a lot of them do a lot of yelling and crazy violent crap. This is not at all the case here, for whatever reason. The couple of times that she even raised her voice slightly in some discussion or argument (and I mean slightly) she apologized for "raising her voice" almost immediately. And she has apologized for other things as well (my ex of 6 years NEVER apologized for anything, words "I'm sorry" just didn't come out of her mouth). However, the currect girl does a GREAT job of apologizing for things and that's also been kinda refreshing. She has no hesitation at all to apologize. So I'm not sure if that's different from some other BPDs or what, but it seems like it's slightly different since I read that they usually can't apologize.

Also, I don't really have "greatest man one week, scum of earth the next" with her. For the most part, she makes me feel pretty damn good. The few times when she freaked out she was feeling mainly very sad but never yelled at me or called me any names. Like I said, she never really disrespected me or put me down in ANY way, when she freaked out it was always that she was not worthy and not good enough and thinks I will eventually just leave her. She's NEVER called me names at all, so that seems a little different also.

I'm not trying to excuse her being BPD, but I'm just stating some of the differences that I have seen so far in her comparing to what I read. She has never ignored me no matter what, never called me names, quick to apologize always if she even raised her voice slightly or even if she cut me off in our convo to tell me something really quick she woudl say "Ok babe, sorry for cutting you off, I just didn't wanna forget " (she did tell me she has some ADD). So those are some of the differences that I see. She is also very giving and has bought me more gifts than I ever got her. She loves to give more than receive, loves to make me food, do nice things for me to make me feel special, and it seems that a lot of BPDs are takers, based on what i'm reading. One thing she does take is A LOT OF TIME, won't lie about that, she prefers that i'm around a lot, obviously, having read everything that makes sense.

Also, AlexDP, you are right. Deep down I probably have some of my own issues with "true love' and what not, as I got into the "pick up artist" world very early in life and after scoring with so many chicks, I'm sure a lot of guys would tell you this, you start sort of losing some respect for women overall. Some of my other PUA or DJ buddies I think also agree with me here.

There is a price you pay for reaping the benefits of picking up many chicks in your life. I've read many guys talk about this "dark side" where you just don't get as intimate with women anymore because deep down you realize that they can be had, no matter what. I've picked up girls anywhere and everywhere, from gas stations to clubs. I've made out with a girl that I didn't know, who was sitting next to me on the airplane, ON THE PLANE, and damn near fingered her on the plane. I've even slept with some girls I met on the plane, or just about ANY place you can imagine. I've picked up girls by rolling my window down in my car and getting their number and later on end up screwing them. I've read about this, but after living like this, it's hard to have full respect for women and appreciate relationships, so you are definitelly correct. Deep down I'm damaged as well, and really have no clue what the hell I want. Sometimes I think I do wanna get married and settle down, and there are days when I wake up and think "why the f**k am I even trying to be with anyone, I can just do my thing and screw new chicks all the time, go about my hobbies, and just enjoy life with no worries". Well, like I said in my original post, after some time doing this, one starts to miss that "closenes" to someone and having an actual significant other to share times with. You see everyone else with their wives and girlfriends, and it makes you sort of miss it. But I'm not gonna lie, you are right. Part of me probably feels I don't deserve true love because of how I've lived my life and things I have done with so many women. And you are also right that on some level I probably like a little bit of her drama and issues and like the feeling of sort of fixing things. But I do NOT like the bad feeling she gives me she she is feeling down or what not. I do like some of the childlike love, but at this time I would prefer that it's sincere love (I always thought it was sincere).

 

[bigneil]

When she resents you, that feels bad, but you sort of like the bad feelings she gives you too. There's usually an element of emotional sadomasochism on the part of the non-bpd as well.

True, toward the end, my BPD would often say I was a "glutton for punishment" when I told her I wanted things to work out with us.

 

[AlexDP]

Also, AlexDP, you are right. Deep down I probably have some of my own issues with "true love' and what not, as I got into the "pick up artist" world very early in life and after scoring with so many chicks, I'm sure a lot of guys would tell you this, you start sort of losing some respect for women overall. Some of my other PUA or DJ buddies I think also agree with me here.

There is a price you pay for reaping the benefits of picking up many chicks in your life. I've read many guys talk about this "dark side" where you just don't get as intimate with women anymore because deep down you realize that they can be had, no matter what. I've picked up girls anywhere and everywhere, from gas stations to clubs. I've made out with a girl that I didn't know, who was sitting next to me on the airplane, ON THE PLANE, and damn near fingered her on the plane. I've even slept with some girls I met on the plane, or just about ANY place you can imagine. I've picked up girls by rolling my window down in my car and getting their number and later on end up screwing them. I've read about this, but after living like this, it's hard to have full respect for women and appreciate relationships, so you are definitelly correct. Deep down I'm damaged as well, and really have no clue what the hell I want. Sometimes I think I do wanna get married and settle down, and there are days when I wake up and think "why the f**k am I even trying to be with anyone, I can just do my thing and screw new chicks all the time, go about my hobbies, and just enjoy life with no worries". Well, like I said in my original post, after some time doing this, one starts to miss that "closenes" to someone and having an actual significant other to share times with. You see everyone else with their wives and girlfriends, and it makes you sort of miss it. But I'm not gonna lie, you are right. Part of me probably feels I don't deserve true love because of how I've lived my life and things I have done with so many women. And you are also right that on some level I probably like a little bit of her drama and issues and like the feeling of sort of fixing things. But I do NOT like the bad feeling she gives me she she is feeling down or what not. I do like some of the childlike love, but at this time I would prefer that it's sincere love (I always thought it was sincere).

Not all BPD's yell. Some reserve that for the very end. Also, if there is no masochistic side on your behalf, there is a very good chance you have narcissistic traits. This would explain why you feel the need to pick up many women and are usually not very intimate with them on an emotional level. Borderlines are attracted to narcissists, because they are attracted to someone who will push them away initially. Chances are she was the one who pursued you, not vice versa. The need to fix is often associated with altruistic narcissism. If you fix things, you feel good about yourself, because you were special in the sense that you figured it out. You like the childlike love (and the adoration that comes with it), but you also like the drama, because fixing it, figuring out what she is like, makes you feel important.

When she walks away from you (and she will) it could lead to a narcissistic injury. Your perfect image is blown away. Were you not special then? Did you not understand this woman better than anyone else? Were you not capable of fixing her? No, you were not. You were no better or worse than the guy before you. You are not special, the relationship is not special, you do not love her. You both play into each other traumas and the sooner it ends, the better.

I know what you're thinking though. You're thinking:

I can figure this out. Hell, I've already figured it out. I'm probably the first guy who realised she had BPD. Now that I know what she has, I can control it. I can fix her. I can make her happy. I can make me happy.

But you can't. You're not a sociopath. You won't outmanipulate a BPD. I don't care how sweet she is, how good she is at sucking your **** (and given that she's BPD, she's probably very very good) or how much she pays on dates. Think about it. She met you right after a LTR. She will do the same to you. She will leave you and hurt you. What did she tell you about the last guy?

(If you're still keen on making this work, SET is one of the communication tools you can use with a borderline: http://bpd.about.com/od/forfriendsandfamily/a/SET.htm. Apart from this it would be important to set boundaries and be consistent. If you say you're going to be somewhere, you'd better be there.)

 

[Johnnyventana]

To the OP. To be BPD, one needs 5 of the 9 criteria. So there is a 'mix' of different possibilities and outcomes based on the combination of the 5. Thus, she is not raging now, but she might be a silent rager, for example. Also, there are different types of BPDs, appeasing, witch, queen, waif, etc. So while you were smart to notice the signs, don't 2nd guess yourself just because she is slightly different than another BPD.

Also, as a primary relationship, that is, not just some chick you're fkn, I don't not recommend an LTR with a BPD. I can't say when it will end, but I do know it will end badly.

Otherwise, as you read around you will learn that "BPDs don't want to be in a club that would have them." In other words, she told you she is not good enough for you, yet you still want her. Eventually she'll hate you for that and think you must be an idiot for loving her. So it's not just that she is insecure, she is, it is also that anyone who would love her must actually be worse off than her. So she will eventually paint you black. But probably not before finding the next clean slate to mirror and vampire from.

 

[sexysuave]

You guys made some good points. And yes, I have heard from some people before that I could be narcissistic sometimes. So you are probably correct here and spot on in describing some of my traits. I was pretty amazed how much you got out of it, very true.

And yes, I do partially feel like that (I know more than anyone and might be the only one who could pull it off), but I do also realize now more than ever that she could, and probably will, eventually leave. If and when that happens, I honestly believe that after knowing all this that I know now, I will make sure I just let her go quickly and do not try anything to talk her out of that. I do realize that long term, I'll probably be better off without her.

To answer your question on what she told me about the last guy, she actually seemed pretty honest about it. She said that she was trying to break up with him for 2 weeks straight, but he kept talking her out of it by making her feel bad for him (he didn't grow up with his parents and had a rough childhood). So she kept trying for 2 weeks to break up with him but felt bad when he told her he didn't have anyone else but her. She eventually just painted him black and 'changed her profile status to single" and told him it was over. When I asked her why she was trying to break up with him, she said "I was just freaking out way too much, I became paranoid about everything, and everytime he went out or did anything I was always just freaked out that he was doing something bad or cheating. I had no piece and was just always stressed out, so I had to end it." And actually, her ex got back with HIS ex like a week after they split, before me and her started talking. So at the time part of me wondered if she was getting with me to get back at him for getting back with his ex so quick (he is still with her), but obviously I didn't care at the time, I sort of thought I was kinda clever for jumping on this rebound like Dennis Rodman and taking advantage of the situation. Deep down I was thinking "excellenttt" , evil laugh).... lol... Wellll, I didn't realize I was gonna totally fall for this chick, so at the time none of that mattered to me. But now obviously all those are questions and concerns that come to mind sometime.

Here is a kicker, she did also tell me after a little while "I fall in love easily, but the thing is, I also get bored easily". When I first heard this, obviously it wasn't a plesant thing to hear. I'm thinking "oh, great". And then she said that once more a few months later, I told her how it takes a lot for me to fall in love and she was like "yeah, I fall in love kinda easy, all my friends tell me I fall in love too fast and get attached too fast big time to someone, but then again, I also kinda get bored easier and just move on". I said back "wow, I'm surprised you're still around", and she was kinda giggling and laughing, "yeah, you're doing pretty good so far" (this was after she has already started to talk about being married to me and having kids with me).

Few weeks ago, when she was talking about marriage and kids and family again, I actually straight up asked her "what if you get bored with me?" And she was like "I won't babe". I'm like "well you said you kinda get bored easier". And she was like "Well we will keep our life interesting and make sure we don't get bored with each other. We will date and do things, and make it work. I don't believe in divorce and wanna avoid it and definitely would hate to ever get divorced, and I will fight to make us work."

UPDATE: As I'm typing this now, I asked her if she took her pill this morning (In the initial post I said taht she promissed she will start taking her pills again that they gave her when she was diagnosed with mild depression and anxiety). And she said no, and I said "well, can you take it now" and she says "yes" and then "ok, I took the pill, but I don't have many left". I said "well, do you have a perscription so you can refill". She says "no, I would have to talk to doctor". I said "well maybe that's not a bad idea". She says "I'm not sure if I can take them with my birth control pills". I say "well, that sounds like a good question for the doctor. She says, "I don't feel like seeing him". I say "why". She says "I don't know, just don't feel like talking". (I wrote earlier how she said she doesnt' like the therapist and thinks he doesn't care). So that's the latest response (this was text , I'm getting ready to go see her now). I'm thinking of a way to respond here, but I'll have a talk with her in person. I'm a little furstrated that she seems like she doesnt' want help because she's paranoid of talking to the doc. Any suggestions on how to approach this, feel free to tell me. Thanks again guys.

 

[AlexDP]

She doesn't want to talk to the therapist, because the therapist is starting to realise what is going on. If your girlfriend is indeed BPD there is a good chance the therapist has recognised her as such (not always easy to do though, as they mirror the therapist as well). Your girl is starting to split the therapist, because the therapist is telling her things she doesn't want to hear. For a borderline it is impossible to deal with negative things about herself. She has no sense of self and is only able to see people in black and white. The therapist tells her something bad about herself, so she must be a bad person. In order for this self loathing to go away, she starts projecting. The bad person is now the therapist.

 

[sexysuave]

How do I approach this with her and set boundaries that she should see the therapist and get her new perscription of pills? She said she was fine for a long time without taking the pills, but after the last episode, I asked her to please start taking the pills again for now. She agreed (but now saying she doesn't have too many pills left).

I'm thinking saying something like "A few days ago we talked about you going back to taking your pills for a while. Can you do me a favor and see your therapist and get your new perscription of pills? You can't always dodge the bad things therapist might say, you must be willing to listen as they are truly trying to help and have no benefit at all for lying to you or misleading you"

 

[AlexDP]

To answer your question on what she told me about the last guy, she actually seemed pretty honest about it. She said that she was trying to break up with him for 2 weeks straight, but he kept talking her out of it by making her feel bad for him (he didn't grow up with his parents and had a rough childhood). So she kept trying for 2 weeks to break up with him but felt bad when he told her he didn't have anyone else but her. She eventually just painted him black and 'changed her profile status to single" and told him it was over. When I asked her why she was trying to break up with him, she said "I was just freaking out way too much, I became paranoid about everything, and everytime he went out or did anything I was always just freaked out that he was doing something bad or cheating. I had no piece and was just always stressed out, so I had to end it." And actually, her ex got back with HIS ex like a week after they split, before me and her started talking. So at the time part of me wondered if she was getting with me to get back at him for getting back with his ex so quick (he is still with her), but obviously I didn't care at the time, I sort of thought I was kinda clever for jumping on this rebound like Dennis Rodman and taking advantage of the situation.

1. A BPD being guilt tripped by someone else? That is not going to happen. Borderlines do tend to experience guilt and in quite extreme dosages, but they don't fall for manipulation like that. Quite the opposite actually. It's more likely that she guilt tripped him and he wanted to leave, because he realized his ex was a better match.

2. She's honest about the being stressed out part. She is paranoid if he's not there. That means he must not love her, or else why would he not be there?

3. You are a rebound. Yes, she used you to make him jealous. But don't feel bad about it. Borderlines are always on the rebound. In many ways their current relationship says more about the previous one. Borderlines don't grieve, so they don't detach. When the relationship between the two of you is over, she will rebound from you.

4. Borderlines tell the truth sometimes. Most of them drop a lot of hints. They will even use words such as "abandonment" or will tell you they can "suddenly cut off feelings". Your ex said she gets bored easily. That is true. She says she falls in love way too fast. That is true.

5. However borderlines also tend to interpret their feelings as facts. They will believe things that never happened. They also do lie quite a lot on purpose. Most she says is rubbish. Don't trust her.

 

[AlexDP]

How do I approach this with her and set boundaries that she should see the therapist and get her new perscription of pills? She said she was fine for a long time without taking the pills, but after the last episode, I asked her to please start taking the pills again for now. She agreed (but now saying she doesn't have too many pills left).

I'm thinking saying something like "A few days ago we talked about you going back to taking your pills for a while. Can you do me a favor and see your therapist and get your new perscription of pills? You can't always dodge the bad things therapist might say, you must be willing to listen as they are truly trying to help and have no benefit at all for lying to you or misleading you"

What you're doing now is acting as if your girlfriend is sensible. She is not. In her eyes the bold part is an accusation. You're telling her she's not good enough. She's a bad person. You're also controlling, because you tell her what to believe.

Imagine your girlfriend is 5 years old (and on emotional level she is). I would tell her this:

"X, I think you did really well when you were taking those pills. How did you feel when you took them? I feel like it might be a good idea to go to the therapist and get a new prescription. I know it's scary to talk to a therapist and I'm very proud that you are willing to do so. I really feel this therapist is trying to help you and I don't think there's any benefit in it for him to mislead you."

Boundaries are a tool for you. You cannot tell her what to do. If her behaviour disturbs you, a boundary could be: I will not talk to you as long as you act like this. They are about what you will and will not tolerate. They do require a great deal of emotional detachment as she will try to break them. In the end, you will always have to be willing to walk away.

 

[sexysuave]

The "suddently cut off feelings" part is true!! You just reminded me. She did say a few times how shortly after her breakups, she was just "fine" and didn't care about the guys anymore. She recently had to help one of her girfriends that broke down after an ex of 5 years (they broke up last summer), saw her at a club and gave her a hug and told her she looked good. Well this girlfriend of hers cried and broke down over this and my girl comforted her and told her that she should not give a damn about that 'piece of sh*t" and her friend told her "I'm not like you, I can't just get over guys taht quickly". So that definitely rings a bell there.

 

[AlexDP]

The "suddently cut off feelings" part is true!! You just reminded me. She did say a few times how shortly after her breakups, she was just "fine" and didn't care about the guys anymore. She recently had to help one of her girfriends that broke down after an ex of 5 years (they broke up last summer), saw her at a club and gave her a hug and told her she looked good. Well this girlfriend of hers cried and broke down over this and my girl comforted her and told her that she should not give a damn about that 'piece of sh*t" and her friend told her "I'm not like you, I can't just get over guys taht quickly". So that definitely rings a bell there.

Yes, but your girl doesn't really get over guys. She blocks them out of her life and represses her feelings. She basically fools herself into thinking she doesn't care about them anymore. Until she seems them. Or is reminded of them on some level. Or her new relationship fails.

To the guy it will absolutely feel like she has completely forgotten about him though. And she herself will believe she has too.