Osama Speach

[TyTe`EyEs]

I'd whoop Osama's fvcking ass. USA is the bigger evil? You sir, can blow me.

 

[joekerr31]

What? He led an army of mujahadin to defeat Red Army. He's anything but a spoiled billionaire brat. He is very fvcking good. He demands respect.


Man, I'm not for him or anything like that, just giving props to the man who deserves them.

he's a spoiled egotistical nutjob with a martyr complex, which some could validly argue is a variation of a spoiled billionaire brat.

osama loves war, but you don't see the guy using his billions to feed the poor do you? he'll feed you IF you join his cause and fight in his war.

 

[Obsidian]

bush doesnt really believe hes bringing freedom to the world

well I don't care if Bush believes it or not; I believe it

Democracy is a good thing. Democracy allows for real men to take charge of their own lives.

The only real question is whether or not the spread of democracy is worth the losses in American lives and tax dollars. If Bush were being frank with you, he'd probably admit that "spreading freedom" alone isn't worth all the trouble we've endured. If we'd known back in 2003 that there weren't really any significant WMDs then we probably would've just stayed out and saved ourselves a lot of heartache. But we can't always see into the future. Every intelligence agency in the world though Saddam had them, and the Iraqi government was so disfunctional that Saddam himself probably thought he had more than he really did.

Saddam would punish or even kill people for displeasing him in the least. That tends to make your weapons developers give you reports like, "Sure, President...The photon torpedo launchers are almost operational. We can defeat anyone with our mega-advanced arsenal."

 

[Falcon]

I strongly believe USA is the bigger evil right now. We have to empathize with the civilians over there. Currently we have something like 5 PERMANENT military bases in Iraq, with about 10 more on the way. If that doesn't scream occupation and invasion then I don't know what would. If the Iraqi people really wanted democracy, let them stage their own revolution to reinstate a different kind of government. Then the USA could play a role like France did in the American Revolution. We are not doing that; instead, we are playing the role of policing the world. Completely different.

 

[armadon]

well I don't care if Bush believes it or not; I believe it

Democracy is a good thing. Democracy allows for real men to take charge of their own lives.
"

Democracy is good for you and me but not everyone which is what people seem to forget. Forcing democracy on a civilization has to be one of the most obsurd things going on.

 

[FutureSpartan]

Aargh Im gonna shoot myself if one more person says the United States is a democracy.

WAKE UP PEOPLE!

The United States of America is a Constitutional Republic! The Founding Fathers would be rolling in their graves with all this "democracy" babble!

Democracy=rule of the majority=mob rule. The Founding Fathers were very afraid of mob rule, worried that it would oppress the minority. Thus they drafted the Constitution along with the Bill of Rights to ensure that the Federal Government, the State and Local Governments, and the People checked and balanced each other.

Nowhere does the Constitution give the Federal Government the power to nation build.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved for the States respectively, or to the people." -Tenth Amendment

Now that the history lesson is over...on to Osama Bin Laden

THEY DO NOT HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS! Why do you guys keep chanting this! If they hated us for our freedoms then why have they not attacked Switzerland or Sweden, also FREE countries???

If any of you read Osama Bin Laden's fatwa against the United States. One of the reasons stated was continued American meddling in Middle Eastern affairs.

You guys need to put yourselves in their shoes for once. How would you feel if the Chinese started bombing and attacking your cities and then decided to occupy your lands in the name of Communism or whatever. The Chinese insist that they are only making the world safe for communism and that the American people are liberated. Meanwhile, Chinese soldiers raid your house and patrol your streets.

All of you would be rushing to find the nearest gun shop to get them out! So why expect any less from the Iraqis or Arabs in the region to not be angry at the worlds superpower disregarding their sovereignty??


And I know all of you are probably foaming at the mouth for more war (Iran??), but the fact is pre-emptive war, especially this war, creates more enemies than it does destroy them. To add on top of that we are going to war on borrowed money, basically mortgaged the United States to China and Japan.

When all you guys are gone, your grandchildren and great-grandchildren will be born debt slaves of the government, thanks to your blind support of a government that only cares to fill its own pockets with the support of military-industrial complex. Way to screw your future generations over huh?

We need to stop this unconstitutional policing the world and defend our borders and reform our government so its FOR the PEOPLE, not the POWERFUL!


I will be anticipating a typical neocon response to my post... but don't i have done all the rebutting for you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSk4SUpWVuY


For those seeking the solution:

Ron Paul: Stop Dreaming
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhFhelm8

Ron Paul: When in the Course of Human Events...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFfdB5OzlyQ

 

[speakeasy]

Democracy as the term is used today is a nation where people elect their own leaders. We do that in United States, therefore we are a democracy.

While I think the war was a mistake, I don't agree with the above posters analogy of the war comparing Chinese coming over here and just bombing. The US didn't wake up one day and decide to start bombing Iraq for no damn reason. There was basically 15 years worth of conflict that led up to the second gulf war, starting with Saddam's invasion of Kuwait and and his 15 years of refusing to declare all by UN mandate what he did with his WMDs even though he had agreed to do so after the end of Gulf War 1.

Number two, If the US were living under a 30 year torturous dictarship and the Chinese came over and deposed of the dictator and tried to set up a democracy where we can elect our own leaders, I'd be welcoming it, personally. So I don't agree with your analogy.

Now I'm not saying that we should just go and topple every country that isn't a democracy, but don't act like all this sh*t just happened in a vacumm either.

 

[DrMetallica]

Osama is the arsehole!!! WTF is wrong with you people??

 

[FutureSpartan]

Democracy as the term is used today is a nation where people elect their own leaders. We do that in United States, therefore we are a democracy.

While I think the war was a mistake, I don't agree with the above posters analogy of the war comparing Chinese coming over here and just bombing. The US didn't wake up one day and decide to start bombing Iraq for no damn reason. There was basically 15 years worth of conflict that led up to the second gulf war, starting with Saddam's invasion of Kuwait and and his 15 years of refusing to declare all by UN mandate what he did with his WMDs even though he had agreed to do so after the end of Gulf War 1.

Number two, If the US were living under a 30 year torturous dictarship and the Chinese came over and deposed of the dictator and tried to set up a democracy where we can elect our own leaders, I'd be welcoming it, personally. So I don't agree with your analogy.

Now I'm not saying that we should just go and topple every country that isn't a democracy, but don't act like all this sh*t just happened in a vacumm either.

Better check your history, the United States supported Iraq using chemical weapons against the Iranians, and then turned on the Iraqis when they occupied Kuwait. The United States was fearful of losing their strategic interests (control of Middle Eastern oil) to a nationalist dictator.

The United States could have driven out Saddam if they wanted to, but backed down after fearing the Shia revolt would bring Iranian influence into Iraq. The popular revolt of Iraq was crushed as the United States stood by and watched. Do your research or if you're too lazy watch Three Kings by George Clooney, Ice Cube, and Mark Wahlberg.

The UN sanctions were nothing more but a leash on Saddam to keep him weak internationally while still being strong enough domestically to keep his majority Shia population under control.

Once the neocons were elected, they saw Iraq as the first step towards pleasing the military-industrial complex, oil companies, and PNAC that were backing them. Now we are talking about striking Iran and Pakistan, and there is a very strong probability that the draft will be re-introduced.

Even though Saddam Hussein was a madman, he posed no threat. Not even to Israel. If Saddam attacked Israel, it could have wiped Iraq off the map with its Air Force and nuclear arsenal.


Now other countries are rushing towards proliferation. They are seeing the United States hypocrisy in dealing differently with rogue states depending on nuclear capabilities.

United States allies with Pakistan despite harboring OBL. Why?? Pakistan has nukes

United States using diplomacy with North Korea, most dangerous state to Asia. NK has a nuke

United States bombing and invading Iraq. Iraq has no nukes and is weak militarily

So rogue states think...lets get a nuke for more leverage against the US! All thanks to US pre-emptive war policy.


"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine"

-Thomas Jefferson

 

[FutureSpartan]

We don't elect our own leaders anymore.

The media selects two candidates and we are left to choose the lesser of two evils.

Congressional incumbents have a 90% reelection rate.

Voter participations is around 50% for the national elections

At the primaries, state elections...its a dismal 10-15% participation among the electorate.

Yeah, the people sure do elect their leaders.

 

[djtdot]

Osama is a jackass who wants Islam to rule the world. He has stated umpteen times he hates Christians (the West), Jews(Israel) and the Hindus(India), the three major religions. He wants to kill and/or convert them. Well not him per se, it says in quran to kill 'kafir' (unbelievers) or something along those lines.

And American democracy and capitalistic system sure has its faults, but its better than the other options out there. Someone saying that it sucks, well why don't you go live in China for a while? In China you say something bad about the government or their leaders, you are dead. Here you can say Bush sucks and he should be removed during the next elections nobody can say anything. Its your opinion and you have RIGHT to say it. Or maybe Singapore(you can't watch porn there or spit on streets).

 

[speakeasy]

Better check your history, the United States supported Iraq using chemical weapons against the Iranians, and then turned on the Iraqis when they occupied Kuwait. The United States was fearful of losing their strategic interests (control of Middle Eastern oil) to a nationalist dictator.

You aren't telling me anything I don't know already or haven't known for a long time. As a terms of ceasefire for ending the first Gulf War he was to declare all WMDs he was known to have and for UN inspectors to verify. He was also supposed to stay out of the no fly zone. He did neither for 10 years.

The UN sanctions were nothing more but a leash on Saddam to keep him weak internationally while still being strong enough domestically to keep his majority Shia population under control.

The sanctions could've been lifted immediately if he'd simply complied.

Once the neocons were elected, they saw Iraq as the first step towards pleasing the military-industrial complex, oil companies, and PNAC that were backing them. Now we are talking about striking Iran and Pakistan, and there is a very strong probability that the draft will be re-introduced.

Nonsense. If you think there's a "strong probability" of a draft going into an election cycle you are smoking something. Plus even the military itself wants to keep an all volunteer army.

Even though Saddam Hussein was a madman, he posed no threat. Not even to Israel.

Saddam had dozens of SCUDs fired into Israel during the first Gulf War. Any of which could've been loaded with chemical weapons. You're talking nonsense.

If Saddam attacked Israel, it could have wiped Iraq off the map with its Air Force and nuclear arsenal.

Well that threat apparently didn't stop him from firing over 40 SCUDs into Israel back in the late 80s.

United States allies with Pakistan despite harboring OBL. Why?? Pakistan has nukes

No one has proof that Bin Ladin is in Pakistan so you cannot say they are "harbouring" him. Nobody knows where he is, he may be in Afghanistan. And even if he were in Pakistan, that doens't mean that he is under the protection of the government.

United States using diplomacy with North Korea, most dangerous state to Asia. NK has a nuke

And what would you prefer?

 

[Charm&Style]

if you truely want to know about osama, the taliban and the radicals who go against their religon of islam and give it a bad name

search: WAHABISM

 

[FutureSpartan]

Osama is a jackass who wants Islam to rule the world. He has stated umpteen times he hates Christians (the West), Jews(Israel) and the Hindus(India), the three major religions. He wants to kill and/or convert them. Well not him per se, it says in quran to kill 'kafir' (unbelievers) or something along those lines.

And American democracy and capitalistic system sure has its faults, but its better than the other options out there. Someone saying that it sucks, well why don't you go live in China for a while? In China you say something bad about the government or their leaders, you are dead. Here you can say Bush sucks and he should be removed during the next elections nobody can say anything. Its your opinion and you have RIGHT to say it. Or maybe Singapore(you can't watch porn there or spit on streets).

So if Osama just hates the West so passionately that he wants us killed, why did the United States supply him arms and intelligence during the Cold War to fight the Soviets?

If the government cares to protect you from evil Saddam and evil Osama why were they openly supporting him before?

Oh I forgot, Sean Hannity and Bill O' Reilly told you otherwise so it must be true.

 

[speakeasy]

We don't elect our own leaders anymore.

The media selects two candidates and we are left to choose the lesser of two evils.

The media can't force you, me or anyone else to pull the lever for anyone. Every election I get a thick pamphlet in the mail detailing each candidate and their party. This is the same pamphlet every registered voter gets. If that person is too lazy to read it, then who is to blame?

Congressional incumbents have a 90% reelection rate.

And that's proof of what? That we aren't a democracy?

Voter participations is around 50% for the national elections

Then tell your friends and family to go to the booth and vote.

At the primaries, state elections...its a dismal 10-15% participation among the electorate.

We have a democratic system. Nobody can force people to participate in it. Sure we can be like Australia I suppose and make it the law that you have to go to the poll on election day, but then the public will cry a hissy fit.

 

[speakeasy]

So if Osama just hates the West so passionately that he wants us killed, why did the United States supply him arms and intelligence during the Cold War to fight the Soviets?

The Soviet-Afghan war occured in the 80s. Bin Ladin didn't become a terrorist(as in one who targets civilians) until the mid 90s. Bin Ladin wasn't the major figure in that war that people keep trying to make him out to be, like he was some military general. He was just one mujahadeen out many. He gave up his former playboy lifestyle to fight against the Soviet takeover of Afghanistan. He and others were also given arms to fight the Soviets.

 

[FutureSpartan]

I think you missed the entire point of my arguement. You're looking at it in terms of simple semantics and failing to see the overall picture.

There is MUCH more to Middle Eastern politics than just

"Saddam invaded Kuwait, we must liberate Kuwait"

"Saddam entered ignored UN Resolutions and No-Fly Zones, we must attack him"

"Osama hates non-Muslims and wants to destroy the world"


Our governments meddling in their internal affairs in the past is reason why they attacked us. Some of you are too brainwashed by Fox News to realize this.

 

[speakeasy]

Our governments meddling in their internal affairs in the past is reason why they attacked us. Some of you are too brainwashed by Fox News to realize this.

None of the hijackers that attacked, even the masterminds come from the countries you said we meddled in. None of the hijackers have been Iraqis or Iranians. They were Egyptians and Saudis. And it's not like we've ever done anything to Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or Egypt.

In fact, if we're talking meddling, I'd say we've done MUCH more in that regards in Latin America, yet I don't see any suicide bombers from Chile or Nicuaragua coming up here. Oh maybe because there's no Moslems there.

By the way, anyone care to explain why moslem radicals have attacked in so many other countries as well in the last decades? Phillipines? India? Morroco? Nigeria? Russia? Thailand? Algeria? Indonesia? Egypt? There was even a terror plot in Canada last year, and they don't even have any troops in Iraq. I guess tha'ts all because of American Imperialism too, right?

 

[armadon]

. Some of you are too brainwashed by Fox News to realize this.

You can't be takin serious in an argument when you say **** like this. Anyone with an opinion other then yours must be brainwashed. That's such an awsome way to declare yourself the winner no matter what.

 

[Last Man Standing]

911 was an inside job!! Wake up The Matrix has you!! Google 911 on youtube!