Online Dating Field Report

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Re: Online success

Originally posted by Marty
Everything you say about online dating is true.Odds are stacked against you,but lets face it,we're guys,the odds are always stacked against us wherever we go.

I bet, especially with that type of attitude. If that's what you expect, that's what you get.

 

[Marty]

Re: Re: Online success

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
I bet, especially with that type of attitude. If that's what you expect, that's what you get.

Like I said,it worked for me.Occasionally I get emails from women that post a link to another pay site.I'm betting these omen are somewhat disguised online hookers.Anyone have any experience with this?I figure they're either online hookers or internet sex fantasy broads selling links to their webcams.The emails always go something like this:"My name is***,I'm into **** click here and you get my contact info,I do this to keep it discreet and make sure you're over 18." Yeah right.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I changed my ad on one of the major sites. It's now a complete off the wall, ****y and funny ad. Basically it's a want ad written by a super hero looking for a super heroine. Let's just say it's completely satirical.

But guess what, I've gotten responses from around the world in addition to close to home. Most of the women write asking if they are MY type, even the ones that seem to have no similar interests! I just got a note from a women in town with a boat that wants me to go sailing with her. She knows I'm not crazy about sailing but she said that she'd make sure that I'd have a great time.

Learn the rules, play to win!

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Survivor

To get a decent match is ALOT of work. When I was online I sent out over 100 inquiries. Got back about 5-6 responses. The results? About 4 really bad dates and zero matches.

I have some very similar experience in terms of numbers. and very much agree with you it is a LOT OF WORK to get anyone decent. Specifically out of 10 dates probable 1 will be a decent match, out of 20 - about just 2.
The worst thing in order to get 10 dates you gotta send about anywhere from 100-500 emails... and be patient to talk to each girl online until she is ready to go out with you.
So until you go on 10-20 dates, dont even think about getting discouraged

 

[Mister Big]

Here's an internet success story to build up some confidence for those who believe that the internet is too time consuming and does not yield. I am still new to the DJ site and admittedly have a lot to learn, but my last internet date below shows the potential market. I reprinted this from an older thread I posted last week.

This woman winked at me on match.com about two months ago. After a few emails, I pushed getting her number. I never waste time with more than a few emails. Most women respond if they are interested. The ones that email a dozen times are either not worth dating or not that interested in you. I called her and had a very short conversation. At the end of the call, I asked her to join me for lunch around where she lives. On my way there, my alternator died. I luckily found a shop and got it fixed. This was simply a miracle, so I had a good vibe about her. I think that having a positive vibe that she can pick up on is one key to scoring. I arrived a little earlier than I expected, so I scoped out the town. I made a few friends with the bartenders and asked where to go on a walk near the water if the date went well.

She showed up looking almost 6 ft tall and very nicely built. I'd give her a 7.0-8.0 (awesome body, but an average face), but others might think less or more of her. Good enough and a very good score if you are out at a bar or club on a weekend night. I shined her with a big smile and bought her a drink. The place was a little dark, so I moved closer to her as we talked, pretending to need to hear her better. Dark places are great on a sunny day because it seems dangerous inside. She was shy, so I tried not to push EC too much.

After a few drinks, I gave her some light kino on her arm and leg. Soon, I was sitting very close with her knee between my legs. This is the best approach and position I've found when you meet a girl at a bar for drinks. You just inch closer every time you get positive feedback. She tells me she feels very comfortable with me for only knowing me a short time. That's my invitation. I stretch and give her a soft kiss. From her profile, she claimed that she only likes men that are good kissers. God I love internet dating as this type of information is available for you to connect the dots when you are working her. This was way too easy. I hadn't even known her an hour yet.

We walk to a seafood joint next door and we are now both a little buzzed. Too late for lunch, so we order some raw oysters and more drinks. This chick is definitely the bomb. After sucking back a few beers, I kiss her again. Later, I tell her that we should find a quiet place like a nice hotel in the harbor nearby and chill out where it is more quiet. I am not made of money although I did spend it that night, but I gambled here that if she accepted I would sleep with her. She hesitated and as I was about to get in my car to leave she agreed. The indian cab driver called me "Mister James Bond" several times on the way to the hotel. I couldn't have paid him enough of a tip. Our night together was not great as she hadn't been with anyone for a long time, so she was very, very nervous but also very, very clean. That was fine because the date was not over yet.

Early the next morning, I woke up and started again on her. This time she responded and we had several very nice moments. The harbor was warm and sunny. I suggested that we get lunch and take a walk. We walked along the harbor, sitting on benchs, kissing, and talking. We both bought souveniers which keeps me on her mind when I am gone. We got a cab back to where we met. One the bartenders saw us on the street and asked us how the date went. She realized that we were still in the same clothes and we all laughed.

This can happen, but it takes work. I think dates like these are more likely through internet dating. Many decent professional women are lonely and have sexual pressure building inside them. The bar scene is not their thing as most of the men are not LTR or even DJ material. The internet gives them a low pressure channel to explore dating. It also gives them a level of control they don't possess in their lives or in the dating scene. Because they know a lot about you, they feel more connected to you before you even meet. When you turn out to be a charmer, they melt if you do and say the right things by following the techniques in the DJ bible.

I have hooked up with 5 different internet women in about a month. The problem I have now is wanting to go out in the real world. The virtual world seems more predictable and easier for me. I'm not bored yet, but I think I need to go out and cold approach just to feel like a human being. I admit that none of the women I found on match.com were above a 7.0, but all were worth the effort. Getting higher rated women might provide the difficulties that others mention.

My advice from experience is put in the time and stick with it. Work the database and it will yield.

 

[JH6]

It might have to do with age group also. I'm 22, so I looked for some girls on myspace (a free friend type service deal). There are a zillion girls on myspace between 18-23 right in my zip code.

So, I find it to be alot like shopping. I put up a profile just ****ing around then spent like an hour tweaking it. Sure enough I had this really cute girl message me and we started talking on aim, then we met up and its been going good since.

Myspace is kinda weird, its not a dating site but it can be used as one. I use it to communicate with some friends from school and setup nights to go drinking or whatever, but I can also browse for 19 year old blondes in my zip code also, and see pictures of most all of them.

There are plenty of hot girls on myspace, i bet it drops off the older you are looking, I don't know any 30 year old women that would be on a site like that.

 

[al77]

Re: Re: Re: Online Dating Field Report

Originally posted by stevera004
Online is pure BS. Too many players (or guys who think they are) and too many princesses and fatties. That's it.

Well... you are right about that. Though online potentially all women want a guy and willing to find a good one.
In real life, you have to first find a decent looking girl somewhere,
and in 9 cases out of 10 she is either married, engaged, have a bf or not interested in dating right now.
I mean what are the odds?? Online is a lot of work, right, with a lots of very fat chicks. ok. But in real life it is much harder even to find somebody open to a "relationships" in any way, unless you go to dancing clubs.

 

[Mister Big]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Online Dating Field Report

Originally posted by al77
I mean what are the odds?? Online is a lot of work, right, with a lots of very fat chicks. ok. But in real life it is much harder even to find somebody open to a "relationships" in any way...

I agree with the statistics involved. The virtual world provides you the ability to reduce the numbers of women you would never date and screen out issues that concern you such as age, status, body type.

I've avoided the "fat chicks" issue by making sure all the women I set dates up with provide decent photos and are reasonably intelligent (some college education). If you are duped by a fat chick that lied on her profile or show some really old photos, just pull the plug. Tell her you don't date misleading people. In the worse case, its no different than an average blind date. In the best case, see my previous post here. What's to complain about.

There are many unique markets in the virtual world, an example is tall women. They always have trouble meeting men over 6' tall like myself and many are fit, horny, and successful. Women I want to meet.

 

[al77]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Online Dating Field Report

Originally posted by Mister Big
I agree with the statistics involved. The virtual world provides you the ability to reduce the numbers of women you would never date and screen out issues that concern you such as age, status, body type.

I've avoided the "fat chicks" issue by making sure all the women I set dates up with provide decent photos and are reasonably intelligent (some college education).

How did you make sure about her education? I said that in "Who I'd like to meet" section... but other than that?
And how about pics? where and how do you say it?

So actually the transition from online dating to real pickup will be very painful...with my rates of reponse I had online, I suspect in real world I dont even have a chance: out of 200 letters I got one date and screened out about 10-20 women as who I dont want to date or they screened me out.

I just cannot imagine how many approaches in reality I'll have to make in order to get a date....400-500??

I 'll have to read more of The DJ Bible....feel real low about real women.

 

[Mister Big]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Online Dating Field Report

Originally posted by al77
How did you make sure about her education? I said that in "Who I'd like to meet" section... but other than that?
And how about pics? where and how do you say it?

So actually the transition from online dating to real pickup will be very painful...with my rates of reponse I had online, I suspect in real world I dont even have a chance: out of 200 letters I got one date and screened out about 10-20 women as who I dont want to date or they screened me out.

I just cannot imagine how many approaches in reality I'll have to make in order to get a date....400-500??

Your success rate is very low, so I understand why you are frustrated. Reevaluate your pics and profile. Don't obsess about verifying info except the things that are real show stoppers to you (i.e., appearance, children, has a job, etc.). 200 letters is not that many. Create a system to be more efficient and work.

Originally posted by al77
I 'll have to read more of The DJ Bible....feel real low about real women.

Don't feel sorry for yourself. This is self-deprecating and the energy you are wasting could be used on your game. If things aren't going great, focus on other things in your life like your career and health. Constantly improving yourself will also improve your game. Success begets success. If it was easy, this forum wouldn't exist.

 

[insomniac]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Online Dating Field Report

Originally posted by Mister Big

I've avoided the "fat chicks" issue by making sure all the women I set dates up with provide decent photos and are reasonably intelligent (some college education). If you are duped by a fat chick that lied on her profile or show some really old photos, just pull the plug. Tell her you don't date misleading people. In the worse case, its no different than an average blind date. In the best case, see my previous post here. What's to complain about.

Nearly every woman I've met matched what I expected. The last one however duped me good. She described her body as 'slender', and she had several pictures showing a attractive woman with a very lean and perky body. We were getting along over e-mail very well, and she seemed very intelligent. However, in the back of my mind a thought lingered...she's just a little *too* into me.

So we meet in person, and she possessed none of the attractive qualities that her photos showed, and had put on a lot of weight. She was by no means slender in any way. Either she had deceived herself about her body type or was purposefully deceptive. I mistakingly went out again thinking I might get a better second impression. Nope, even worse.

I somewhat feel guilty because I blew her off when she contacted me again, but not really because I felt lied to. Just another reason why I'm off online dating for the time being.

 

[al77]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Online Dating Field Report

Originally posted by Mister Big
Reevaluate your pics and profile. ...

Well.. I have some reponses to my profile, so I guess it is not the biggest problem. I talked to some women for for some time over email (3-10) emails... but, nearly 99% of women bail on me in a very weird way when I suggest to meet:

Me: Lets get together....
She: Sounds good.....
Me: XXXX would be a good place to meet..
She: yeah, why dont you call me at YYYY?

I called, she never picked up the phone and never return my message. After a week I wrote her "Hey how was youw eekend?"
She: fine... I am sorry I was busy blah blah..
NEXT.

Me: Lets get together......
She: Sounds good......
Me: XXXX would be a good place to meet..
She: yeah, that's nice.

But she didnt confirm the date, and didn't reply anymore.
After a week she sent "Oh I was busy... travelled to YYY for work"
Me: Ok, Lets get together......
She:...never replied.

What the heck is going on? What do I do so wrong that when I attempt to meet her, her IL drops so low that she gradually
disappear???

Any advice how to improve it?

 

[insomniac]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Online Dating Field Report

What the heck is going on? What do I do so wrong that when I attempt to meet her, her IL drops so low that she gradually

All I know is, I'm doing something right in regards to this. I've met about 30 women off the internet, have never been stood up, they'll most always ask to meet me after four or so e-mails, or if they don't, they always accept if I ask.

How long are your e-mails to each other? Are you building enough familiarity and rapport?

My first message is asking open ended questions, maybe three or so, about her life and interests. If her interest level is high, she will reply within a day or two with three or four paragraphs answering my questions AND she'll ask about me. After that, I start throwing in references to what I'm doing in the day, over the weekend (preferably something exciting) and ask her the same, but don't ask to meet her in person yet. I think this helps in getting her to think of you as a living, breathing person who exists in real life, and it'll get her to think about you when she's not at the computer. After a few exchanges like this, we're already at a more personal level and the initial formality is gone...making it easy to suggest meeting in person.

Signs of low interest may be 1) taking more than a couple days to respond to you 2) responding with only a couple sentences each time 3) not answering your questions 4) not asking you any questions about yourself. These are the ones that will flake and eventually stop writing me back (or I'll get bored with and move on). I haven't bothered to figure out how to increase interest level with these yet, I just move on.

So that might be it. You just need to build rapport and become a real person to her.

 

[al77]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Online Dating Field Report

Originally posted by insomniac
All I know is, I'm doing something right in regards to this. I've met about 30 women off the internet, have never been stood up, they'll most always ask to meet me after four or so e-mails,

Rapport means more email of better quality...ok, I'll more on that.
But my question was about closing the deal..

How did you go when you already have rapport?
You say "Lets get together..." she "ok".. and whats next?
You always ask for her phone number or set up a date over email?
When you got her number, at what time you call? if she didn't pick up, how many time you call her untill she pickes up teh phone?

 

[insomniac]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Online Dating Field Report

Originally posted by al77
But my question was about closing the deal..

How did you go when you already have rapport?
You say "Lets get together..." she "ok".. and whats next?
You always ask for her phone number or set up a date over email?
When you got her number, at what time you call? if she didn't pick up, how many time you call her untill she pickes up teh phone?

Typical exchange is like this:

Me at end of e-mail: "Don't have much time to write more at the moment, but how would you like meet up for a drink sometime? I'm free Tuesday or Wednesday next week after 6pm, so let me know if you're interested."

Her: "Meeting for a drink would be great! I'm doing blah blah Tuesday, but Wednesday would work."

Me: "OK, let's do Wednesday at 7pm. There a place near somewhere I've been wanting to check out, so let's go there."

Her: "That place sounds good! See you then! :>"

That's usually how it goes. A HB5 and HB9 will respond with same enthusiasm if they both have high interest level (though it's more difficult to get replies from HB9 in the first place, and they're more likely to flake and stop writing back).

I'll usually let her pick the day after I tell her when I'm free, then'll I pick the exact time and location.

I never ask to meet someone if I haven't gotten a good conversation going with them and they're showing a lot of interest in me by asking questions and acting impressed by what I write. If they only reply with a couple empty sentences here and there, don't write back quickly, or never ask me about myself I won't ask to meet.

As far as the phone goes, I skip it entirely because 1) I hate talking on the phone, and 2) I'm horrible on the phone. I'll only call if she gives me her number or to setup details of meeting.

If I do call, I always call half-hour before I have to go or do something else (gives me an excuse to get off phone). If no answer first time, I'll hang-up. I'll call back within a day and leave a message next time. If she doesn't return it, then I usually won't bother calling again.

Of course, this is just my way of doing things. Everyone else has their own methods that may be better, but this works well for me.

 

[Mister Big]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Online Dating Field Report

Originally posted by insomniac
That's usually how it goes. A HB5 and HB9 will respond with same enthusiasm if they both have high interest level (though it's more difficult to get replies from HB9 in the first place, and they're more likely to flake and stop writing back).

As far as the phone goes, I skip it entirely because 1) I hate talking on the phone, and 2) I'm horrible on the phone. I'll only call if she gives me her number or to setup details of meeting.

If I do call, I always call half-hour before I have to go or do something else (gives me an excuse to get off phone). If no answer first time, I'll hang-up. I'll call back within a day and leave a message next time. If she doesn't return it, then I usually won't bother calling again.

I experienced the same online HB 8-9 problem with their flaking out, so its good to know its common even if they wink and approach you. I usually settle for 7.0s due to the extra work involved in the hotter girls even if they show some IL, but I am going to raise my bar soon.

I think a phone call is necessary if you want to avoid meeting some really weird chicks. You'll only know if you talk to them. Some personality conflicts can be identified on the phone that make you not want to pursue them at all. This one woman admitted to being in pyschotherapy and having several severe physical ailments. Not my scene.

Your are right that phone skills are not easily developed. I am still getting it down, but you can really establish a strong impression and set yourself up for success on a date by 1) making your call memorable and 2) keeping it short and direct. As you mentioned, by limiting the time of the call (15 minutes for me), you will never have "dead air" pressure . This also presents a busy appearance which is attractive. You still need to listen, connect, and be C&F.

This takes time to master, but the skills you gain in the extra practice on the phone will benefit you when your are face to face. Don't avoid the phone call just because its hard. Because many other men suck on the phone, you separate yourself from the rest and create a high initial IL that pays off on the date. It doesn't sound like you need help though. Food for thought.

 

[al77]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Online Dating Field Report

Originally posted by insomniac
Typical exchange is like this:

Me at end of e-mail:

Her: "That place sounds good! See you then! :>"

As far as the phone goes, I skip it entirely because 1) I hate talking on the phone, and 2) I'm horrible on the phone. I'll only call if she gives me her number or to setup details of meeting.

insomniac, I can relate so much to what you said...
Thanks a lot, you said simple things, but it clarified som stuff for me, and you game is more structurally refined...cool.
I usually do same email routine since I hate talking on the phone too. The most problems I see at that last step:

Her: "That place sounds good! ...."
but she didn't confirm the date, just said "oh.. it is good". And from there the whole convo collapsed. Very odd.
Probably I have to email her more, establish more rapport...

Anyway, great post!

Do you chose to go to bars? coffee shops? What places?
I for exmaple would love to take a small walk with her, but since in my area there is not many downtowns, and people mostly drive... well, I usually suggest to meet for coffee at a mall, where we can take a little walk: I dont like to sit plus I can her how she is walking it help establish her IL and figure out if I like her.

 

[al77]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Online Dating Field Report

Originally posted by Mister Big
Your are right that phone skills are not easily developed. I am still getting it down, but you can really establish a strong impression and set yourself up for success on a date by 1) making your call memorable and 2) keeping it short and direct.

How would you make it memorable? What do you say?
I usually call women when they are driving...imagine that: I have an accent.. plus cell phone quality, she is driving and saying mostly "mmm.. yeah" due to driving, plus some words just dissapear in static. Not exactly the way to talk.
I tried to ask "Hey is it a good time to talk to ya?" Yeah yeah...
sure it is good" so there is no way out.

What time do you call women? is 10 late enough for her to come home and early enough not to be asleep?

 

[TooColdUlrick]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
I changed my ad on one of the major sites. It's now a complete off the wall, ****y and funny ad. Basically it's a want ad written by a super hero looking for a super heroine. Let's just say it's completely satirical.

But guess what, I've gotten responses from around the world in addition to close to home. Most of the women write asking if they are MY type, even the ones that seem to have no similar interests! I just got a note from a women in town with a boat that wants me to go sailing with her. She knows I'm not crazy about sailing but she said that she'd make sure that I'd have a great time.

Learn the rules, play to win!

funny because i did the same thing a while back and got killer responses. here was the ad...this is just the unformatted text...just this and nothing more....

======

[size=huge]

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A HUMANITARIAN!
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Not a cheap Chinese imitation.
But a REAL MAN, with a LIFE, a CAREER!!!

!INCREDIBLE!

IMAGINE
By taking advantage of our special FLEX-PAY® program, He can be YOURS for only,

36 EASY PAYMENTS
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But wait...THERE'S MORE!
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[/size]

-----------------------------------
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==========

chicks were digging it.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by TooColdUlrick


A FINANCE PROFESSOR! A CONSULTANT! A VIKING!
A HUMANITARIAN!
He Chops, He Slices, He Dices!

.....
chicks were digging it.

Well... they liked something about the ad, didn't they?
I doubt it was a discount and references to some real world advertising: really why would it be attractive to women?

But if you take off the very first line with "finance", "professor", "viking" I am sure women's perception of the ad would be almost totally different.

Conclusion? You may write a very successful ad of just a couple of lines if you put some direct references to what you have in terms of career. It is an instant career->success->money conclusion for women.