New Scenario With Difficult Coworker

[FlirtLife]

Imagine giving your son advice "Hey son don't stand up to your annoying coworker, he might get a promotion and then you're screwed", most men are indeed weak.

My post said "I doubt you would bully your boss"[1]. Picking on people without power, but saying nothing to those with power - that seems like a bully to me. There's a difference between standing up to someone and being a bully.

I brought up the grammar checker advice after you made numerous mistakes... and kept going.

"When I need your helps"[2]
"that you make, if you have"[2]
"When I need your helps"[2]
"be a puzzy the whole life to stand up to people"[3]

[1]

I doubt you would bully your boss by saying "I don't like you trying to correct me when I make mistakes... When I need your helps, I'll ask for it". If you say that to a co-worker, and they later get promoted to your manager ... you're screwed.

[2]

I would taking him in a place alone and be like "Hey man, I don't like you trying to correct me when I make mistakes, or those jokes that you make, if you have a problem with me, talk to me or my boss" Those people are fvcking annoying and are the first puzzies who complain when you make fun of them.

He will be like "I'm just trying to help you, don't take it personally"

I would be like "When I need your helps, I'll ask for it"

[3]

Ok be a puzzy the whole life to stand up to people then. That sounds fun

 

[logicallefty]

To make work easier, are you willing to make him feel even more superior?

Then ask him to help proofread some of the emails you send to everyone. You won't feel good about the situation - but he can't complain about an email he proofreads, can he? If you're on the fence... don't make me point out the typos in your message above. I suspect he's actually annoyed by those typos. The way your co-worker adheres strictly to every rule makes me suspect he's German.

How does the co-worker's cyber security experience compare to yours?

I think what is going to save me with this guy is my boss. My boss is super cool and he has said that this guy is a jerk. He also made a comment to me that "(Jerk guy) is NOT your boss, I am. You do not have to listen to him if you choose not to". So officially in a work context I think I will be fine. For me, my original post was actually about trying to adapt to new cultures and figure out if this is normal. Then the second thing is figuring out how to handle my interactions with this guy on a daily basis and not do or say anything I might regret. His cyber security/cybercrime experience is far less than mine. I have worked with it in some way since 1999 including in a sworn law enforcement capacity. He has only worked with it since 2017 and only as a civilian, not as a LEO.

 

[AAAgent]

He also apparently is putting his company at legal risk by continuing to create a hostile work environment via his disparaging racial comments that are not only crass but also highly illegal in a workplace environment, as in company gets sued and settles for millions of dollars illegal.

This will just create a hostile work environment imho. The dude will retire in 3 years. If he goes to HR, assuming that HR does anything in this environment as this has been happening for a while now, it will antagonize the old head and cause him to more covertly harass OP and create tension in their cooperation at work. Assuming it does work out well and he stops, then great.

At the end of the day, the old heads criticism is valid. Tons of grammatical mistakes shouldn't be made, especially when there's literally a spellchecker in every single email/document program.


This is likely the last thing HR wants to be dealing with during these times. I'm seeing HR staff being laid off, budgets being cut, having to fire/lay off others on massive scales, handle benefit cases, they probably don't want to be handling grown men complaining about grammar and not being nice.

Just be the bigger man, and spellcheck your writing. If it continues after that, you can escalate.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This will just create a hostile work environment imho. The dude will retire in 3 years. If he goes to HR, assuming that HR does anything in this environment as this has been happening for a while now, it will antagonize the old head and cause him to more covertly harass OP and create tension in their cooperation at work. Assuming it does work out well and he stops, then great.

At the end of the day, the old heads criticism is valid. Tons of grammatical mistakes shouldn't be made, especially when there's literally a spellchecker in every single email/document program.


This is likely the last thing HR wants to be dealing with during these times. I'm seeing HR staff being laid off, budgets being cut, having to fire/lay off others on massive scales, handle benefit cases, they probably don't want to be handling grown men complaining about grammar and not being nice.

Just be the bigger man, and spellcheck your writing. If it continues after that, you can escalate.

This isn't about him. This is about a company that is literally potentially risking legal action that would create severe financial compensation to employees and/or heavy fines if someone decides to pursue legal action.

HR departments mostly care about how much legal/financial risk you are exposing them to by being employed there so trust me, that is the FIRST THING they would want to know about.

Making those type of jokes/comments has no place at any business that wants to stay in business.

 

[Divorced w 3]

OP, first of all, this type of calm and patience from a former LEO is wonderful to hear. That is incredibly much to your credit. I can only guess how many situations over your career ended better than expected because you had the emotional presence that you do. I am pro LE to the max regardless and defer to the blue until proven otherwise but thank you for affording me the confidence.

That said, welcome to social and workplace dynamics. Your boss may have your back but you still need to make this guy your btch. It’s going to pour over into your work life in ways you don’t expect. It will start off like this but depending on how much further he takes it, he or others may start making more headaches for you over time. If your boss had your back he would put that guy in his place for you, so you have to look at the landscape that you’re playing in and adapt accordingly. Keep calm, and then find ways to ask questions or make outright statements that are going to reframe this dynamic.

First of all

A couple ideas :

First of all, never seek him out. When you’re on top, you don’t seek out the pawn, you move forward on your path and you clear out issues if they get in your way, ie deal with this next time he moves on you.

1- (next time he acts up, and do this publicly ) hey Pascale, sounds like we got off on the wrong foot. You’re probably having a tough day, it happens to the best of us. The office should grab a drink after work and we can get to know each other better? (Do you see why this works? ‘Hey guys, Pascale is a catty *****, men work towards solving problems and leaders work at bringing teams together’)

2- (acts up again) Pascale, I’m not sure what it is, I totally get we have our own stuff going on, whatever it is, not necessary to tear the office focus away on this kind of stuff. Chill dude, let’s just keep on task here, but I would appreciate if you knocked it off, I’m trying to get work done.

3- Pascale, last chance, I’m letting you know that I’m documenting all of this and my next call is HR

4- Pascale gets his ass beat after hours without cameras around

 

[Divorced w 3]

Amazon.com

 

[AAAgent]

This isn't about him. This is about a company that is literally potentially risking legal action that would create severe financial compensation to employees and/or heavy fines if someone decides to pursue legal action.

HR departments mostly care about how much legal/financial risk you are exposing them to by being employed there so trust me, that is the FIRST THING they would want to know about.

Making those type of jokes/comments has no place at any business that wants to stay in business.

I work in management for a massive corporation (top 30 in the world) and I am sharing from my personal experience. If this has been going on for a while, likely nothing is going to be done about it in this environment when **** is hitting the fan as most work places. It seems to have been tolerated. Not ideal but it is what it is. HR likely turning a blind eye and the company and client likely don't care or are accepting of this.

In a healthy economy, what you said about HR departments is accurate. In this environment with financial tension spreading, they are less worried about that. Entire DEI divisions are being wiped out. Caring about your "feelings" when bankruptcies are increasing, everyone is constantly upset and complaining, and budget for company culture/diversity/branding will all come after surviving and revenue. This is why I originally said, i would have just addressed it myself publicly and called him out but when the old dude is on his way out and literally is displaying IDGAF attitude, OP has more to lose than he has to gain. You definitely don't want to be complaining during these times about trivial stuff like "he told me to fix my spelling mistakes" when people have more important sh1t to worry about.

Putting people in their place works when the other party has something to lose and you make their next move one that has to be so loud, it will make them a fool infront of others. Given that this guy is on his way out, spent many more years at this current company, and OP is brand new there, OP doesn't seem to have much to gain and more to lose given that he's newer, he's still learning to work with people at the company, he's complaining, etc.

As a manager, the worst people are the ones that create problems for me as a manager that can't resolve them amicably among staff. I likely wouldn't be hiring people who are acting like the old dude in the first place, but as a manager the last thing I want to hear is HR pulling me into an office and sharing that my 2 direct reports are bickering over xyz. This does not help move the team towards our objectives nor the individual toward objectives, and the newbie that is complaining potentially labeling himself as a softy.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I work in management for a massive corporation (top 30 in the world) and I am sharing from my personal experience. If this has been going on for a while, likely nothing is going to be done about it in this environment when **** is hitting the fan as most work places. It seems to have been tolerated. Not ideal but it is what it is. HR likely turning a blind eye and the company and client likely don't care or are accepting of this.

In a healthy economy, what you said about HR departments is accurate. In this environment with financial tension spreading, they are less worried about that. Entire DEI divisions are being wiped out. Caring about your "feelings" when bankruptcies are increasing, everyone is constantly upset and complaining, and budget for company culture/diversity/branding will all come after surviving and revenue. This is why I originally sad, i would have just addressed it myself publicly and called him out but when the old dude is on his way out and literally is displaying IDGAF attitude, OP has more to lose than he has to gain. You definitely don't want to be complaining during these times about trivial stuff like "he told me to fix my spelling mistakes" when people have more important sh1t to worry about.

Putting people in their place works when the other party has something to lose. Given that this guy is on his way out, spent many more years at this current company, and OP is brand new there, OP doesn't seem to have much to gain and more to lose given that he's newer, he's still learning to work with people at the company, he's complaining, etc.

As a manager, the worst people are the ones that create problems for me as a manager that can't resolve them amicably among staff. I likely wouldn't be hiring people who are acting like the old dude in the first place, but as a manager the last thing I want to hear is HR pulling me into an office and sharing that my 2 direct reports are bickering over xyz. This does not help move the team towards our objectives nor the individual toward objectives, and the newbie that is complaining potentially labeling himself as a softy.

Dude it doesn't matter what they "allow". This is where companies f ck up because they act as if their policies override actual laws. They don't.

They will eventually learn a very expensive lesson on this.

 

[AAAgent]

Dude it doesn't matter what they "allow". This is where companies f ck up because they act as if their policies override actual laws. They don't.

They will eventually learn a very expensive lesson on this.

Not saying they will allow it, i'm saying it may not actually solve the problem and create more problems than OP actually wants. Complaining and crying is less effective than trying to resolve the situation yourself either through aggressive actions or pacifistic actions.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Not saying they will allow it, i'm saying it may not actually solve the problem and create more problems than OP actually wants. Complaining and crying is less effective than trying to resolve the situation yourself either through aggressive actions or pacifistic actions.

Once he goes to HR he is immediately afforded whistleblower/retaliation protections under Federal Law.

That would be another expensive lesson they would end up learning

Nothing aggressive about it. The dude has been violating Labor Laws for 30 years and they have done nothing about it.

 

[AAAgent]

Once he goes to HR he is immediately afforded whistleblower/retaliation protections under Federal Law.

That would be another expensive lesson they would end up learning

Nothing aggressive about it. The dude has been violating Labor Laws for 30 years and they have done nothing about it.

Where did you get the 30 years (i must have missed that)? I don't see anything about violating labor laws. He seems normal to most co-workers (according to OP) and only OP is having this issue. Seems a lot of things are still up for interpretation.

How HR will address this is they will take the report and document it. Whether its actionable or not. They will bring the report and say its anonymous and bring it to the attention of his co-worker and review these issues one by one. the co-worker will be able to address the complaints regarding spelling errors because those infact are legitimate facts. The racial remarks can be seen as a joke, doesn't seem to have been an issue before OP was there, and worst case, a slap on the wrist. Manager will be made aware and co-worker may be annoyed and complain to manager, and OP will complain to manager, and this was all started by OP. This is all on-top of OP likely will face more passive aggressiveness from co-worker. This guy has been there for many years and likely will have more people on his side than OP will may further isolate OP and end up with OP just creating a hostile environment for himself.

Easier to just win these situations over with kindness. I done both, put people in their place and also just put in a few months work of being super nice, by treats for the entire team including the a$$hole, invite the a$$hole to drinks, thank the a$$hole after they critique me and just be genuinely nice. Eventually, they stop. These lose motivation and also end of feeling bad, plus they don't have momentum on their side as co-workers are also not motivated to be negative towards me. Or you can just stand up and say openly, you don't appreciate their snide remarks and its getting kind of annoying. If they have any of those remarks, they can keep them to themselves.

I just don't think the aggressive situation will work in this case and reporting someone as a new person reporting some old dude that has been there for way longer and getting along well with others.

 

[member162951]

How HR will address this is they will take the report and document it. Whether its actionable or not.

HR is required under U.S. federal and state labor laws to conduct an internal investigation, by interviewing all employees.

Racial slurs can be subjective, what one employee considers offensive, another might not. What's important is how the complaining witness feels, if it negatively impacts their job performance and creates a hostile work environment for them.

Hostie work environment is clearly defined in the labor laws and constitutes a cause of action.

HR doesn't make the laws, nor is it their job to interpret them. Their only job is to follow them.

A court of law will determine the egregiousness and award damages if the company is found liable and failed to take action.

The emails and other things you find annoying, are not actionable. Unless they are found to be discriminatory or racially motivated.

Talk with an attorney you could have a valid cause of action here and be awarded $$$ for it.

 

[FlirtLife]

I think what is going to save me with this guy is my boss. My boss is super cool and he has said that this guy is a jerk. He also made a comment to me that "(Jerk guy) is NOT your boss, I am. You do not have to listen to him if you choose not to". So officially in a work context I think I will be fine. For me, my original post was actually about trying to adapt to new cultures and figure out if this is normal. Then the second thing is figuring out how to handle my interactions with this guy on a daily basis and not do or say anything I might regret. His cyber security/cybercrime experience is far less than mine. I have worked with it in some way since 1999 including in a sworn law enforcement capacity. He has only worked with it since 2017 and only as a civilian, not as a LEO.

Oh, and here I assumed you moved to a new job (less experience) and he was about to retire (more experience)... You can use your far greater cybercrime experience to correct him - to nitpick on him.

You could start replying to his nitpicks by asking "Did the boss say to do that?" You and your co-worker follow the boss, not whatever annoys your co-worker.

I haven't tried it, but "grammarly" is a tool to fix typos/grammar/etc. If you resolve half of this guys nitpicks by using a tool, that could also make things more tolerable.

 

[Murk]

That’s weird behaviour, I’ve been around emails and group email chains my whole working life, nobody has ever called out a typo or misspelling, not publicly anyway.

Saying you must proof read your email is belittling, he’s little bro’ing you. You have grounds to tell him to stfu and mind his business surely, I wouldn’t have that.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Oh, and here I assumed you moved to a new job (less experience) and he was about to retire (more experience)... You can use your far greater cybercrime experience to correct him - to nitpick on him.

You could start replying to his nitpicks by asking "Did the boss say to do that?" You and your co-worker follow the boss, not whatever annoys your co-worker.

I haven't tried it, but "grammarly" is a tool to fix typos/grammar/etc. If you resolve half of this guys nitpicks by using a tool, that could also make things more tolerable.

This is the behavior of someone who feels threatened by the new person with more experience.

 

[Divorced w 3]

This is the behavior of someone who feels threatened by the new person with more experience.

Exactly, which is why there is such a golden opportunity if OP wants to exert himself as the leader here if he’s looking for advancement or at a minimum he’s gonna get his peace of mind back if he just wants to coast. This is a classic mistake on the senior guys part. He probably doesn’t do a good job.

 

[Divorced w 3]

I work in management for a massive corporation (top 30 in the world) and I am sharing from my personal experience. If this has been going on for a while, likely nothing is going to be done about it in this environment when **** is hitting the fan as most work places. It seems to have been tolerated. Not ideal but it is what it is. HR likely turning a blind eye and the company and client likely don't care or are accepting of this.

In a healthy economy, what you said about HR departments is accurate. In this environment with financial tension spreading, they are less worried about that. Entire DEI divisions are being wiped out. Caring about your "feelings" when bankruptcies are increasing, everyone is constantly upset and complaining, and budget for company culture/diversity/branding will all come after surviving and revenue. This is why I originally said, i would have just addressed it myself publicly and called him out but when the old dude is on his way out and literally is displaying IDGAF attitude, OP has more to lose than he has to gain. You definitely don't want to be complaining during these times about trivial stuff like "he told me to fix my spelling mistakes" when people have more important sh1t to worry about.

Putting people in their place works when the other party has something to lose and you make their next move one that has to be so loud, it will make them a fool infront of others. Given that this guy is on his way out, spent many more years at this current company, and OP is brand new there, OP doesn't seem to have much to gain and more to lose given that he's newer, he's still learning to work with people at the company, he's complaining, etc.

As a manager, the worst people are the ones that create problems for me as a manager that can't resolve them amicably among staff. I likely wouldn't be hiring people who are acting like the old dude in the first place, but as a manager the last thing I want to hear is HR pulling me into an office and sharing that my 2 direct reports are bickering over xyz. This does not help move the team towards our objectives nor the individual toward objectives, and the newbie that is complaining potentially labeling himself as a softy.

Why would you ever advocate for an aggressive public response, such a bad idea. Emotional intelligence is so much the better way to go. If OP gets hot then it simply becomes a case of two knuckleheads battling it out for turf.

At the end, when the dust is all settled and OP looks like a seasoned pro putting dude in his place, making peace and taking the lead, he should give all praise and credit in a public way to his manager for bringing the ideas to the table that made peace and productivity possible, which we all know is total crap but guys like you don’t ever see or understand that it’s happening right under your nose, but you’d be afraid otherwise that a dude with intellectual capital and a set of balls would be moving for your job and you’d become his new worst enemy.

 

[FlirtLife]

This is the behavior of someone who feels threatened by the new person with more experience.

That's accurate. But the new person is also driving OP a bit crazy, and relief from that is valuable.

 

[FlirtLife]

Exactly, which is why there is such a golden opportunity if OP wants to exert himself as the leader here if he’s looking for advancement or at a minimum he’s gonna get his peace of mind back if he just wants to coast. This is a classic mistake on the senior guys part. He probably doesn’t do a good job.

The "Did the boss say to do that?" is a trap. If the nitpicker says "Yes", you check with the boss and discover he's lying. After that, any nitpicks become just "Tell it to my boss". ("you liar" can be left unsaid)

 

[AAAgent]

Why would you ever advocate for an aggressive public response, such a bad idea. Emotional intelligence is so much the better way to go. If OP gets hot then it simply becomes a case of two knuckleheads battling it out for turf.

At the end, when the dust is all settled and OP looks like a seasoned pro putting dude in his place, making peace and taking the lead, he should give all praise and credit in a public way to his manager for bringing the ideas to the table that made peace and productivity possible, which we all know is total crap but guys like you don’t ever see or understand that it’s happening right under your nose, but you’d be afraid otherwise that a dude with intellectual capital and a set of balls would be moving for your job and you’d become his new worst enemy.

As a manager at a fortune 500 company, the last thing i want to be dealing with, especially in this environment where teams/divisions/management are all facing pressure to improve their P&L/financial reports is dealing with this trivial bullsh1t.

You're grown adults. I hire people because they know have to act like adults and navigate the corporate environment. I don't hire people to waste their time and more so, my time to resolve disputes. Especially when your arriving at a new place. Take the trial by fire and survive and learn to navigate it. If you can't even navigate inter team politics, how can you navigate intercompany politics, let alone work with external clients.

This is the difference of having a bad manager making a bad hire and having a strong and seasoned leader. If within the first month or two, you're already not getting along with someone, can't resolve the issue yourself, and need to bring it to my attention, I immediately see red flag and will question my decision of hire.