Neil Strauss: The Game

[Phyzzle]

Well, people who think about and practice pick up in clubs 7 nights a week are bound to get good at pick up. Don't see what's so hard to believe about that.

 

[amethyst]

I shall keep this short and sweet; Most of the knowledge of the community is to do with NLP. If you read any NLP book you will find that it is an applied psychology, thus making it a form of therapy. As psychoanalysis deals with making the patient understand and deal with their problems, applied psychology deals with modifying behavioural patterns. That being said some of the NLP theories are used in the game for example rapport and anchoring are NLP terms, several of the methods are directly linked to NLP.

I have always believed that “PUGs” are nothing more than marketers profiting from NLP and branding it as their own. Yet they had the balls to use NLP out in the field and proved it could be used to pick up women. Though I must say something I find rather vexing is that they brand NLP as the “dark side”, I am guessing this is so that they can keep making money from people who are running low in confidence.

Again I found the game to be an entertaining read, mainly because it was written in a humorous way that made the community seem like fun. I have been on and off in the community even before Neil Strauss wrote ”the game” and I remember how it pissed people off that he had exposed the MM, I couldn’t give either way because the book gave a lot of people the confidence to go out in the field make it feel like a “game”.

When it’s all said and done the community is here to give people support, these are self-help sites that give people enough drive to go out and enjoy themselves.

Love

Amethyst

 

[drak_ool]

Darwinian sympathiser, the Game is a fun novel, not a do-it-yourself guide, so both you and that reviewer in your original post got it wrong.

oh, and about that review... that guy has it all wrong, the whole thing is just a pile of crap and he makes neil strauss look like an amateur author. Well i got news for you... he was a new york times best selling author BEFORE The Game, so he must have been doing something right

One more thing... from your posts, you have proved yourself to be a douchebag/retard/dumbass (you pick your favorite). You keep contradicting yourself, presenting your opinions as facts, denying blatantly obvious facts (like Style and mystery don't have success with women)

i have no idea why you started this thread but everything you wrote in it made you look like an idiot

 

[darwinian_sympathiser]

GoSens,

Hit a nerve have I?

amethyst,

Pickup community? NLP? What are you talking about? The only thing that the pickup community can pick up are their bruised egos. There is no pickup community. There are, however, idiots/con artists like Mystery and Strauss who claim that they know how to make themselves attract any woman they want, and entice you all in because you don't want to hear the truth that's staring at you in the face every time you step out the door or go to a party (if ever, that is, you are invited to one).

Read Deep Dish's book of women thread and his other amazing posts if you want to hear the truth. You can, of course, keep on listening to Strauss, get into the so called pick up community as you call it, and keep deluding yourselves until you're sad old men.

I feel sorry for Ross Jefferies, and David DeAngelo for that matter, since there is no logic to what they propound and also because what they say is not what real life is about. If their theories/techniques were ever to be refereed for the scientific journal they would be turned down flat.

I have never in my life observed a beautiful woman start making out with an ugly guy because he said something to her that make her swoon. I've never in my life attracted women by the way I dressed and by how I approached them. I've had 2 previous relationships with exceptionally beautiful women, and let me tell you: they were attracted to me first. Was it because of what I said or did? No, to be blunt they liked what they saw and bothered to say hello when I passed them, rubbed up against me when we sat together on the train etc. . . Conversely I've been attracted to women who I really wanted but could never return my feelings, I got nowhere with them simply because they were not interested in me, because that's how life is.

 

[ChrizZ]

GoSens,

Hit a nerve have I?

amethyst,

Pickup community? NLP? What are you talking about? The only thing that the pickup community can pick up are their bruised egos. There is no pickup community. There are, however, idiots/con artists like Mystery and Strauss who claim that they know how to make themselves attract any woman they want, and entice you all in because you don't want to hear the truth that's staring at you in the face every time you step out the door or go to a party (if ever, that is, you are invited to one).

Read Deep Dish's book of women thread and his other amazing posts if you want to hear the truth. You can, of course, keep on listening to Strauss, get into the so called pick up community as you call it, and keep deluding yourselves until you're sad old men.

I feel sorry for Ross Jefferies, and David DeAngelo for that matter, since there is no logic to what they propound and also because what they say is not what real life is about. If their theories/techniques were ever to be refereed for the scientific journal they would be turned down flat.

I have never in my life observed a beautiful woman start making out with an ugly guy because he said something to her that make her swoon. I've never in my life attracted women by the way I dressed and by how I approached them. I've had 2 previous relationships with exceptionally beautiful women, and let me tell you: they were attracted to me first. Was it because of what I said or did? No, to be blunt they liked what they saw and bothered to say hello when I passed them, rubbed up against me when we sat together on the train etc. . . Conversely I've been attracted to women who I really wanted but could never return my feelings, I got nowhere with them simply because they were not interested in me, because that's how life is.

so how many thousands of cold approaches using his method have you done to say it doesn't work?

I smell KBJ/AFC that is jealous of people that get women.

 

[viking22]

OK "The Game" is well written and meant to be entertaining, and deliberately showcases routines that are amusing. If routines were all Strauss had he would not be any good.

What is not immediately apparant is a few things which explained Strauss's eventual success and what we should really take from the book

a) He went out a LOT. Even if you approach girls with canned routines you are miles ahead of other men who either don't approach or wait till they are drunk and horny. Eventually you become comfortable talking to girls and develop confidence, which girls find attractive.

b) Strauss is a journalist, he probably has better social skills than most guys as well as having an interesting life. If you are a journalist you need to be able to charm people or else they will not open up to you or want to talk to you.

c) Strauss set his mind to becoming good and the guy has a lot of drive. Previously he had the "woe is me im crap with women attitude" so ruled himself out from the beginning.

the PUA stuff is good insofar as it gives guys belief and from that confidence, where previously they were resigned to being alone. It also gets guys going out and approaching girls, which will help them develop social skills the same way normal guys who are good with women did. Then you get positive reinforcement once the guys get some success and that builds their confidence and so on. And at the end of the day they become sociable, confident guys.

But that is only part of the puzzle. Even if you are sociable and confident you have to be able to offer more than that. Which is why it is important you are successful, lead an interesting life and have stories to tell, take care of yourself and look the best you can be, and are basically a happy individual.

This board stresses some of these things which amount to getting your life together, and takes time. But most people want a quick fix so love the idea that if you learn a few routines and recite them to girls you can get them into bed.

 

[darwinian_sympathiser]

I have not read the book or any book about picking up women. Most of what I do know I figured out myself through trial and error. I seen strauss on tv and he seems genuine. I have stated and re stated that confidence is the key to getting women into bed. But a lot of you guys really do not understand the difference between confidence and ego and you all need to know the difference before its too late for you all.

Strauss is on hella of an amazing con artist I'll give him that.

To all the people like the darwinian guy,who are saying there is no way guys can learn to pick up women.

I never said no one can learn to pick up women, I said that you are deluding yourselves over this material that claims what it does. That you buy into this because of some deep seated insecurities and self esteem issues you have about yourselves, that's all I'm really saying if you care to read between the lines, if you care to think about what it is I'm trying to tell you. Do you understand that or not?

i have a couple of things to say to shut you up.
Why did you come to this website?

I basically came onto the website after reading the awful articles and the trash that Jefferies/DeAngelo writes and was totally taken aback by the sheer gullibility of some of the posters here, it beggars belief. Only posters like Deep Dish, Pook, bondjamesbond etc. . redeem this site and my deepest respect goes to them.

You came here to get advice on how to attract or pick up women, right.
So the simple fact that your on this website proves that you are looking for help.
You would not be looking for help if you didnt believe there was help to be had.
You wouldnt buy books on how to be a DJ if you didnt believe there was a way to learn.
OK, in otherwords your full of BS.

Attracting women? What you think they're some kind of stepford wives that you can bend to your own will? If you think that you are totally deluded and sad I'm afraid to tell you. There are no DJs, there are no AFCs, how much time do I have to tell you that? You don't need con artists to tell you how to improve your condition, and the fact that you do speaks volumes for your intelligence and your self respect. I takes no brain at all to know that if you go out more, are more sociable, make more friends and get better dress sense etc. . . you will attract more women. But there is a limit to the kind of women you can attract, and all these outrageous claims to attracting anyone you want, that you can take them from their boyfriends etc. . . is utter BS. That's what I'm disputing, because it clearly shows the feeble mindedness of your thinking and an inherent animalistic need to dominate and become the "alpha" male that most will never achieve, and that is by definition. It also shows the utter contempt and total miss understanding of why certain relationships are stable, why certain people always are together and keep on coming back to one another, and the notion of jealousy/politics in a relationship.

Now the book you read may have dissapointed you but it didnt stop you looking for help and thats why your here, full of frustration because your not getting the right help.

Well I will try to help all you guys like darwinian, and my help is free.

I don't need your help, thank you very much. I like to hear more of pook, boindjamesbond, Deep Dish etc. . . because from time to time they produce something that is a "tour de force", an argument of devastating power and beauty that quite literally takes your breath away.

Go to my thread ego v confidence

You will find out why your not getting that a$$.
Infact darwinian my thread will definatley help you man because you probably didnt realise your carrying an ego the size of an elephant around with you and its crushing your life. Your name alone says it all, let alone your massive posts.

Seriously go and read my thread ego v confidence and it might just change your perspective and maybe your life.

The fact that you need to talk about it and its relation to attracting women tells me what level of intelligence you are at. I agree that confidence attracts women, but so do other factors. But I am of the view that if a woman is not attracted to you at all, no amount of confidence/****y and funny/negging/kino is going to make the slightest bit of difference to her, and mostly she would be evasive to it.

 

[amethyst]

The Pick-Up Community started with seduction 101, and then it evolved into a bunch of self-help sites that allowed people that felt in the same predicament to; network, share their problems and get a different outlook in complete anonymity, that is before everyone began make a quick buck out of it.

As far as NLP are concerned like I said before it is a form of applied psychological therapy which reframes your mental state via visualisation, some of the patterns, models and techniques can be applied in order to reframe a person’s mind frame while you are talking to them. For example Paul Mckenna uses hypnosis and NLP in order to cure psychological problems by reframing his clients mind while they are under a Trans. Even if you don’t believe in this method, it has worked for others so there is proof that NLP can be used to reframe a person’s mind.

I grow weary of speaking about such a trivial subject as a novel, if you want a real debate PM me your Skype address and perhaps I could devote an hour or so to improving your debating skills, but this is the last post in which I will talk about The Game, at the end of the day it’s just a novel whether you like it or not is inconsequential and nothing will be gained by continuing this debate.

I have stated the reasons why I thought your beginning argument was flawed, I have clarified the points that you sent me in your previous post and now I am clarifying the final questions raised in your last post. I have tried to be as clear as I could; taking into consideration that my learning disability (ADHD) does not allow me to fully express what is in my mind.

On a final note, I believe some of the points that you have brought up were quite valid, yet as I said on my first post you still have to learn how to remove the personal attacks on people. The tongue of a true diplomat is always sheathed, he conducts himself with grace and keeps his ears keen so that they can pick up the poison other secrete, if you learn how to restrain yourself and provoke your opponent you have a chance of becoming a good debater.

Keeping true to the ethos of this site I hope I have been of some help to you in improving your debating skills, which was your primary goal.
But now I will take my leave, perhaps you should all forget about this thread and concentrate on helping each other instead of mindlessly bickering.

Love

Amethyst

P.D. I agree I loved reading Pook's posts not only did his logic inspire, but he also used evidence to back up everything he said. Rather than creating Idealistic Notions that lack substance and are only intended to give an artificial, self-destructive confidence boost, to those who are emotionally scared which may lead them to even a greater fall.

 

[darwinian_sympathiser]

Like I siad your ego could sink the Titanic.
The more you write and argue just highlights how huge and overpowering your ego is.
Your posts are the size of novels...only ego maniacs write like this, always trying to defend their position because they cant chance the possibility that they could be wrong...
Being seen to be wrong and loosing face would kill you. Except your the only one who cares if your wrong, nobody else cares, so why do you?
Women dont find ego maniacs attractive, infact it repels women.
I get pu55y and you dont, therefore I know something you dont, but your not willing to accept this fact because of that ice berg of an ego.
I came here to give some advice to guys like you as a free public service, to help AFC's like yourself, because there are too many frustraited guys like you, like that guy who shot up the mall because his girlfriend dumped him, get it.
Your intalectual, but your book smarts are all the intelligence you have and book smarts dont cut it with women, not even in the library.
Ever tried accepting the possibility that you could be full of BS? No of course not.
Thats the reason you dont get any,
your not willing to accept that the way you think hasnt worked so far, so you need to change how you think, but you spent all those years building that immense ego, that you dont want to face the reality that it was a waste of time, infact it was more than a wast of time, it was using your own intelligence and fears to destroy your own life.
How do I know this? because once I had an ego a quarter the size of yours and it was only when I kicked it into touch that everything became clear.
Of course its going to be more difficult for you to kick an ice berg, I suggest leaving it out in the sun to melt.
Its not to late though, accept your full of sh1t and move on to a better future.
Oh and one more thing I can read you like a book, sorry for hitting such a big nerve,
you really didnt need to disect my last post and awnser each section, seriously, nobody cares, just you.

Go defrost your ice berg, its too heavy to carry on carrying.

Sh*t, man, I really hit a nerve here?:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

Have you bothered to think over what this PUA community is all about?

There's this wonderful website: www.puatraining.com and what are they touting?:

Featured Event for £135
Boot Camp for £549

Wow, think for a minute if they had thousands of subscribers, think of the millions they would rake in? Why, Deep Dish and co, we're in the wrong business, we should be starting these training companies to con people out of their hard earned money and get bloody rich doing so!! Yes, what was I thinking?

All I have to do is to tell the mugs, erm sorry, punters that it is possible and that I have a secret key to their heart's desires and they'll lay down cold hard cash for it. What a brilliant idea.

 

[darwinian_sympathiser]

The Pick-Up Community started with seduction 101, and then it evolved into a bunch of self-help sites that allowed people that felt in the same predicament to; network, share their problems and get a different outlook in complete anonymity, that is before everyone began make a quick buck out of it.

As far as NLP are concerned like I said before it is a form of applied psychological therapy which reframes your mental state via visualisation, some of the patterns, models and techniques can be applied in order to reframe a person’s mind frame while you are talking to them. For example Paul Mckenna uses hypnosis and NLP in order to cure psychological problems by reframing his clients mind while they are under a Trans. Even if you don’t believe in this method, it has worked for others so there is proof that NLP can be used to reframe a person’s mind.

I grow weary of speaking about such a trivial subject as a novel, if you want a real debate PM me your Skype address and perhaps I could devote an hour or so to improving your debating skills, but this is the last post in which I will talk about The Game, at the end of the day it’s just a novel whether you like it or not is inconsequential and nothing will be gained by continuing this debate.

I have stated the reasons why I thought your beginning argument was flawed, I have clarified the points that you sent me in your previous post and now I am clarifying the final questions raised in your last post. I have tried to be as clear as I could; taking into consideration that my learning disability (ADHD) does not allow me to fully express what is in my mind.

On a final note, I believe some of the points that you have brought up were quite valid, yet as I said on my first post you still have to learn how to remove the personal attacks on people. The tongue of a true diplomat is always sheathed, he conducts himself with grace and keeps his ears keen so that they can pick up the poison other secrete, if you learn how to restrain yourself and provoke your opponent you have a chance of becoming a good debater.

Keeping true to the ethos of this site I hope I have been of some help to you in improving your debating skills, which was your primary goal.
But now I will take my leave, perhaps you should all forget about this thread and concentrate on helping each other instead of mindlessly bickering.

Love

Amethyst

P.D. I agree I loved reading Pook's posts not only did his logic inspire, but he also used evidence to back up everything he said. Rather than creating Idealistic Notions that lack substance and are only intended to give an artificial, self-destructive confidence boost, to those who are emotionally scared which may lead them to even a greater fall.

Diplomat you say, sir? I'm no diplomat. But I truly find it disturbing and frightening that people are willing to believe what they WANT to believe.

Here's a flyer from www.puatraining.com:

99.9% of men are not like you. They will be the men that sleep with the average of 6 women in their life. They will be the 78% of people that are unsatisfied with their love lives. They think they need to work harder and make more money and the women will come later. Why later and not right NOW? They have not seen PUATraining.com (short for Pick Up Artist Training), and will not ever put in the small amount of directed effort it takes to be able to attract, pick up and seduce women, and have complete choice in your love life. You are different, you have made the first step to abundance and choice. You will stand out, and you will reap the benefits while they stay frustrated.

erm, right, so just by giving some guys a bunch of money I get to be in the 0.1% of the "special" ones? What are you trying to sell here exactly?

And why is the "They will be the men that sleep with the average of 6 women in their life" so important? Is that an ego appeal here? By what twisted logic does it follow, or is written, that one of "life's goals" is to sleep with as many women as possible (although there might be an innate biological drive for this)? There are many people who had marriages for decades and who have slept with less and have stayed faithful all their lives, are they missing out on something?

here's the tacky BS again:

You will stand out, and you will reap the benefits while they stay frustrated.

erm, how does one stand out? By giving you money and learning your cheap tricks? What makes you so special? What, because I've trained under a so call "guru" by the name of Gambler?

Yes, of course, Gambler's right and I'm wrong. Strauss didn't get to snog those women in his twenties because he didn't have someone like Mystery to train him. It's not because that the general female population was not interested in him - and probably are still not interested in him.:yes:

What we have is a bunch of hurt, deeply angry men who will not admit it, who think that the world owes them something. It doesn't, never has, never will. They then spend money on this crap, go out more and seem to think "hey, this stuff is working", never for a moment realising that they could of gotten the same results by the obvious route. They never realise that the women have issues too, and they sometimes want someone just to be with - but not just anyone.

Let me give you an example: Jane Austen's Emma. We see Mr Elton trying to seduce Emma, but she wouldn't have any of it. Austen does not go into the reason why Emma doesn't want Elton (there's a parallel in the film Clueless) because that's the way things are in life, but it is clear that she doesn't want him. And however much he tries she is repulsed by him. People like Strauss and Gambler will say that Mr Elton didn't have the right techniques to attract her, put her in the right position for a proper seduction. Do anyone of you, with an ounce of intelligence believe for one second that is the case? If you do, I feel very sorry for you.

 

[justjosh47]

It's just a book....not too bad to read after you just get dumped ...it's a little up lifting and it shows what some of the "seducation community" stuff can become if it takes up your hole life ...although I hated the end of the book.

 

[Patrick124]

wow dude, its a book. calm yourself sparky, just don't buy it?
maybe sue Strauss for the time you wasted..but you seem to be wasting even more time discussing it...?
lol

 

[ChocolateVanilla]

This you are correct. I'm not a good expositor. I'm actually gauging all your responses to see if the majority can see the book for what it is: a elaborate con trick to get people to believe what they want to believe.



There is no data, I'm just wondering if more and more people who read it see the book for what it is: made up, full of lies, and over sensationalism to get you to buy into it. Can you see that? It's the sh*ttist, oldest political game in the book (pun intended).



If the view of the book is that all you have to do is to modify your behaviour patterns, change your style and have "game" and this will get you any woman you want, then I'm afraid I consider it my responsibility to expose this crap for that it is: crap. No more and no less. Anyone who has interacted socially with people (whether male or female) will understand what I'm talking about. I feel sad for the loners who probably never have meet women in their lives - nor had been on a date with one for that matter - to have this sh*t in their heads that all it requires is listening to this book. As Dennis Litterel said in the review: pure unadulterated bullsh*it is what sums this books up



I couldn't read the remaining 3 quarters of the book because it was simply that sh*t. Neil Strauss is no the person who he claims to be. He does not have that success with women (neither does mystery for that matter). The book just objectifies women, and is written by someone who has utterly no respect for them.



Love, I have to tell you, is not logical. If the latter were true, say, then we can formalise it in a consistent mathematical theory. Nobody has done this, which is why through the ages vast amounts of theorising and works of arts (novels, pop songs etc. . . ) have been devoted to depicting its various forms and manifestations, and this will continue.

What we can do it get rid of the CRAP: Ross Jefferies, Neil Strauss, Mystery etc. . . and see them for what they are: CON MEN. Let see these idiots try and get Kate Bosworth (yes, I think she's pretty). They can't because women don't work like that. How would you like it if some ugly fat chick reads and similar book to this saying that she could get it with you if she knew how to act and dressed right?



Novel you say? Piece of crap more like. Ross Jefferies talks about technique because he's ugly, simple as that. David DeAngelo don't know anything about dating, he just convinces you that he thinks he does. We are playing a pathetic arms race with members of the opposite sex and you can't see that. I shouldn't say "we" since not all of us are. But we have our Neil Strauss and they have their "the rules", or "how to make any man fall in love with you" crap. It's just smacks of desperation on both sides, because that's exactly what it is.

I await your reply, sir. I'm not embarrassed about this thread and discussion, but I am TOTALLY embarrassed at the piece of crap that is The Game and having read bits of it.

LOL Mystery and Style don't have that success with women. Hilarious. That's the equivalent of me saying Bill Gates isn't that rich . Just because you can't seduce women who are better looking than you are doesn't mean everyone can't. Your points are so vague and just bottles down to "this book is BS" which you have yet to prove in your "logical" ramblings. Citing biased reviews doesn't constitute "evidence" either.

"Anyone who has interacted socially knows what I'm talking about". How vague is that statement? So are you implying that the people on this board and guys like Mystery and Style don't interact socially? Vague statements with no evidence don't constitute a real argument.

If you were stick in ANY social setting with those 2 guys with the objective of seducing women, you would easily get crushed by them.

 

[darwinian_sympathiser]

LOL Mystery and Style don't have that success with women. Hilarious. That's the equivalent of me saying Bill Gates isn't that rich . Just because you can't seduce women who are better looking than you are doesn't mean everyone can't. Your points are so vague and just bottles down to "this book is BS" which you have yet to prove in your "logical" ramblings. Citing biased reviews doesn't constitute "evidence" either.

"Anyone who has interacted socially knows what I'm talking about". How vague is that statement? So are you implying that the people on this board and guys like Mystery and Style don't interact socially? Vague statements with no evidence don't constitute a real argument.

What's that? Mystery and Style got success with women? Anyone can increase their success with women, you just go out and mingle and as long as you are not vulgar and are polite and tactful you can increase your success with women. Also being extremely good looking helps, and is one of the major ingredients for initial attraction. You don't need a book to tell you that, and if you do you are seriously sad.

If you were stick in ANY social setting with those 2 guys with the objective of seducing women, you would easily get crushed by them.

What, because they have "game"? Is that what you want to believe? If the woman in question found me "good looking" she would not bother with them.:yes: I've done this to a few so called PUA. These people believe that being on a course like PUAtraining.com entitles them to get anyone they want regardless of the "background" issues involved.

What are these background issues?

1) she might already have a boyfriend
2) she might be on a rebound
3) she just might not be in the mood
4) she might just want someone to stroke her ego, and feed yours for a while until she tires of you
5) she might be playing for attention, just have you around but don't ever intend to f*ck you at all
6) she might just be friendly

and so on . . . . .

If those idiots at PUAtraining.com, and Style and Strauss for that matter, think that they could just get anyone they want they are sadly mistaken.

The reality is not pretty, and these people are just making money out of sad gullible people who want to believe what they want to believe, and that's no basis for relating to women, nor living in the real world for that matter.

If you look at PUAtraining site and what they tout you can see the empathsis on how they can work the miracles for you. They may make "improvements", but unfortunately no one can force attraction from another, in the same way no woman can force attraction from me just because she wills it so.

If you look through history and literature you'll understand that this game is not nice, and you just simple can't let yourself fall for these sad scams. The greatest writers, Shakespeare, Goethe, Marlowe, Austen, Balzac etc . . . all have done their time with the subject of love, and especially unrequited love. These writers are in the "genius" class, and even they don't have the answers, they only show the issues and consequences involved, they don't offer solutions or "techniques" because they know there are none. This is why the reviewer Dennis Litterell said Strauss's book is "pure unadulterated BS".

 

[ChocolateVanilla]

What's that? Mystery and Style got success with women? Anyone can increase their success with women, you just go out and mingle and as long as you are not vulgar and are polite and tactful you can increase your success with women. Also being extremely good looking helps, and is one of the major ingredients for initial attraction. You don't need a book to tell you that, and if you do you are seriously sad.



What, because they have "game"? Is that what you want to believe? If the woman in question found me "good looking" she would not bother with them.:yes: I've done this to a few so called PUA. These people believe that being on a course like PUAtraining.com entitles them to get anyone they want regardless of the "background" issues involved.

What are these background issues?

1) she might already have a boyfriend
2) she might be on a rebound
3) she just might not be in the mood
4) she might just want someone to stroke her ego, and feed yours for a while until she tires of you
5) she might be playing for attention, just have you around but don't ever intend to f*ck you at all
6) she might just be friendly

and so on . . . . .

If those idiots at PUAtraining.com, and Style and Strauss for that matter, think that they could just get anyone they want they are sadly mistaken.

The reality is not pretty, and these people are just making money out of sad gullible people who want to believe what they want to believe, and that's no basis for relating to women, nor living in the real world for that matter.

If you look at PUAtraining site and what they tout you can see the empathsis on how they can work the miracles for you. They may make "improvements", but unfortunately no one can force attraction from another, in the same way no woman can force attraction from me just because she wills it so.

If you look through history and literature you'll understand that this game is not nice, and you just simple can't let yourself fall for these sad scams. The greatest writers, Shakespeare, Goethe, Marlowe, Austen, Balzac etc . . . all have done their time with the subject of love, and especially unrequited love. These writers are in the "genius" class, and even they don't have the answers, they only show the issues and consequences involved, they don't offer solutions or "techniques" because they know there are none. This is why the reviewer Dennis Litterell said Strauss's book is "pure unadulterated BS".

No those guys would easily have stronger frames than you and tool you(i.e. "AMOG") in front of a girl without you realizing it. Your 6 points you made obviously shows you've never studied mystery method. Basically you think something is BS based on reviews posted by obvious conservatives on a website rather than actually trying it for yourself?


Of course you can't "force" attraction, but you can build it and I've had personal experiences with that. The problem is, most guys "hit on" a girl by coming off as rapport seeking early on like "hey what's your name?", "hey what's up?", "Hey what are you doing here" in a contrived effort to build rapport. Not to mention rapport seeking early on is unattractive and not to mention it sets the frame that she's the prize and somehow more important than you are. Or sometimes guys will open with a situation opener and then stay on that situation thread for too long and then bleed that to death which is again, just low value behavior and unattractive and setting the wrong frame for the interaction. The guy I know who says "looks are the only thing that matter" always hits on girls like that. No **** girls won't be attracted to you if you talk to them like that, especially if you have bad body language to boot. So if your initial conversations with a women is nothing but rapport seeking, than yes, looks are the ONLY thing that matter.

 

[the_absolute]

"the game" is a novel, a limited memoir, a documentary per say.

If you have a problem with Erik von Markovik (AKA Mystery) then you should take up "The Mystery method" and if you dislike Ross Jeffries then take issue with his seminarrs, books and DVDs.

Read "the mystery method" and then come back with your whining (to all those who have whined). His stuff is absolutely bang on the button, although I don't think it would work as well for a deformed midget, if you get me.

 

[The Deacon]

I doubt the book is fabricated. Haven't you ever heard the typical "rags to b*tches" story? It's happened to a lot of nerdy guys who socially blossomed. Don't tell me that not a single nerd has saved himself from lifetime virginity, cause it's happened before. Neil Strauss did it by leaving his comfort zone with the help of Mystery and changing the way he looked. Whether or not the book is true/false, it's still possible for a man to get a woman if he looked like Neil Strauss.

The whole idea behind the Mystery Method is that women respond to social value as strongly as they do looks. Mystery is probably the weirdest dressed man I have ever seen, but he knows how to work a social situation. Everything in the book (MM) talks about DHVs and DLVs and it's really applicable in any social context. If Mystery is a con-man, well, he certainly is a smart one. I would only consider him a con-man if he wasn't a geek before he was a player.

Mystery is a player, okay? There's way too much social proof for anyone to deny that. There's his T.V. show, television interviews, magazine interviews, etc. Don't you think that if he was just a fake, someone would have found out and exposed it all over the media already? There's no empirical proof that he doesn't f*ck a lot of women.

 

[darwinian_sympathiser]

Mystery is a player, okay? There's way too much social proof for anyone to deny that. There's his T.V. show, television interviews, magazine interviews, etc. Don't you think that if he was just a fake, someone would have found out and exposed it all over the media already? There's no empirical proof that he doesn't f*ck a lot of women.

I'm not disputing whether mystery f*cked a lot of women (and quite frankly it's vulgar and I don't care to know). I'm disputing the doctrines laid out in the book and behind sites like www.puatraining.com. I can probably f*ck a lot of women myself if I lower my standards a little, but that would just be bad taste and an utterly vulgar thing to do.

The whole idea behind the Mystery Method is that women respond to social value as strongly as they do looks

no, they don't, not in the way he's putting forward. Because if you did not believe it there would be no course nor book to sell to people like you. Social value, as Strauss and Mystery put it, seems to be a thing that can be easily manipulated and disguised in order to attract. If that were the case, you'd be hitting on stupid women. Also you can't create social value unless the woman allows you to know her in the first place. It's messed up understanding like this that allows people like Mystery and Strauss to write the crap that they do.

Of course you can't "force" attraction, but you can build it and I've had personal experiences with that. The problem is, most guys "hit on" a girl by coming off as rapport seeking early on like "hey what's your name?", "hey what's up?", "Hey what are you doing here" in a contrived effort to build rapport. Not to mention rapport seeking early on is unattractive and not to mention it sets the frame that she's the prize and somehow more important than you are. Or sometimes guys will open with a situation opener and then stay on that situation thread for too long and then bleed that to death which is again, just low value behavior and unattractive and setting the wrong frame for the interaction. The guy I know who says "looks are the only thing that matter" always hits on girls like that. No **** girls won't be attracted to you if you talk to them like that, especially if you have bad body language to boot. So if your initial conversations with a women is nothing but rapport seeking, than yes, looks are the ONLY thing that matter.

I never said looks are the only thing that matters, but they are important. For both of you. And the above only applies if the woman is interested in you to begin with. If she's not, she's not going to give you the time of day. Rapport seeking early on is not unattractive at all to a woman who likes you. If a woman really likes you, it's very hard to do something wrong. If she's not interested no amount of "game" as espoused by Strauss and sad pick up course, will make any difference.

Bad body language etc. . . are also overcomed by a woman who likes you, and I've had a lot of experience in that department. And the "looks are the only that matters" brigade are not touting in at the social level, they are touting it at the unconscious level.

 

[The Deacon]

no, they don't, not in the way he's putting forward. Because if you did not believe it there would be no course nor book to sell to people like you.

Really? How did Strauss attract women then? Was it through his looks? I doubt it. Was it his sexuality? Possibly. Either way, you can't deny that the way he carried himself in social interactions was a BIG piece of the puzzle. Are you saying that Mystery's Method isn't a way of demonstrating higher value or are you saying that social value does not play a role in getting women?

I never said looks are the only thing that matters, but they are important. For both of you. And the above only applies if the woman is interested in you to begin with. If she's not, she's not going to give you the time of day.

The problem with this generalization is there's no real honest way to prove it nor disprove it. A woman isn't going to tell you if she was interested at first if she blew you off when you first approached her. They say women size you up in five seconds and think if they would sleep with you or not, I say that you can DHV and get them to "want" you if they didn't like the way you looked at first. It's all pre-selection.

If you had a guy that looked like Drew Carey walk into a bar, no woman would give him the time of day. If they found out he was Drew Carey, they'd be a little intrigued by him, since he's famous. If he came into a bar and had two HB10s clinging onto either side of his arm and heavily flirting with him, women NOTICE that and get MORE intrigued.

I asked a girl this the other day and she completely agreed with me. Her ex-boyfriend had a big nose and she thought she would never date a boy like him. Eventually, though, he was able to build attraction and she fell for him.

 

[ChocolateVanilla]

I'm not disputing whether mystery f*cked a lot of women (and quite frankly it's vulgar and I don't care to know). I'm disputing the doctrines laid out in the book and behind sites like www.puatraining.com. I can probably f*ck a lot of women myself if I lower my standards a little, but that would just be bad taste and an utterly vulgar thing to do.



no, they don't, not in the way he's putting forward. Because if you did not believe it there would be no course nor book to sell to people like you. Social value, as Strauss and Mystery put it, seems to be a thing that can be easily manipulated and disguised in order to attract. If that were the case, you'd be hitting on stupid women. Also you can't create social value unless the woman allows you to know her in the first place. It's messed up understanding like this that allows people like Mystery and Strauss to write the crap that they do.



I never said looks are the only thing that matters, but they are important. For both of you. And the above only applies if the woman is interested in you to begin with. If she's not, she's not going to give you the time of day. Rapport seeking early on is not unattractive at all to a woman who likes you. If a woman really likes you, it's very hard to do something wrong. If she's not interested no amount of "game" as espoused by Strauss and sad pick up course, will make any difference.

Bad body language etc. . . are also overcomed by a woman who likes you, and I've had a lot of experience in that department. And the "looks are the only that matters" brigade are not touting in at the social level, they are touting it at the unconscious level.

Um like I said, that kind of behavior is only fine if a women is already physically attracted to you but if you have no value to her, she's just going to think you're another chump. Now if you actually try stuff like David Deangelo's ****y+funny, Mystery Method, Pickup 101's banter, and you still can't get attraction from a women who probably wouldn't have given the time of day to you otherwise, then you can argue that you can't "create" attraction or everything in the game is BS, but going "hey what's your name?" "wow can i buy you a drink?" (i.e. Sinn mentions this is how almost all guys hit on girls), is generally not gonna work of women of sufficient quality. If you've personally tried it all and it still doesn't work for you, then you can use that looks are the most important thing argument. How do you know it doesn't work unless you've actually TRIED it? I have a hard time believing guys like Mystery, Style, Sinn, and Savoy made everything up and they never get girls who are out of their league. Someone would've pointed out it's BS by now and gotten Mystery out of the air. It obviously works orelse it wouldn't be widespread as it is now. So you're say that if a guy is born ugly, then he should absolutely give up, be anti-social, and not go out and find a women he really likes? That's just a horrible mindset.

BTW, you can get most of what you need for absolutely free on the internet. *GASP*, the DJ Bible on this site is guess what....absolutely free. You don't need to spend that much money on any stuff.