Need solid talk now!

[hithard]

Ztime is hardly being played. He has
maintained good frame right through. Yes this chick has thrown some red flags up. But they would hardly rate for dismissal just yet. He is barely through qualifying. Ztime is a clued in guy.

Generally I go through a 3 month exclusive when looking at a LTR, or I'm in a "s.hit or get off the pot" moment.
I usually have them half moved in. I need to see if the day to day mundane tasks throw up any problems.
Seeing someone everyday can cut through the haze. If there is any little thing that irks you now, multiply it by a thousand.
Unfortunately it can take up to a year before you really start seeing the stuff that annoys you.

There's a few things that you need to do from here:

Don't get her pregnant. This is were 90% of the f.uck ups and horror stories come from. Yeah its a no brainer, but guys do this all the time.

Don't let her move in totally. Don't let her lose her current home. She needs to be easily gotten rid of if the shtf.

Invest enough emotionally for the relationship to move forward. This is very subjective. But you need to invest enough for a relationship to be healthy. Can't be a stone and expect it to go well

Bail the first sign of contempt. Just run.


If you're happy then enjoy it. Yes there is always a price you pay when going into relationships. But be aware of problems, not just waiting for it to fail. Just remember everyone has some form of issue. You need to work out what hers is and if it is a major or minor on the "dump her azz" scale.

 

[Die Hard]

Ztime is hardly being played. He has
maintained good frame right through. Yes this chick has thrown some red flags up. But they would hardly rate for dismissal just yet. He is barely through qualifying. Ztime is a clued in guy.

You're blind...

Invest enough emotionally for the relationship to move forward. This is very subjective. But you need to invest enough for a relationship to be healthy. Can't be a stone and expect it to go well

The guy got involved with a cluster B and is already in over his head, he needs a lifeline to prevent him from getting swallowed by a whirpool. You don't realize it, but you are pushing him straight into that whirlpool with your advice...

 

[hithard]

You're blind...



The guy got involved with a cluster B and is already in over his head, he needs a lifeline to prevent him from getting swallowed by a whirpool. You don't realize it, but you are pushing him straight into that whirlpool with your advice...

You can't class every woman out there a "cluster b" just to be on the safe side (even though theres a $hitload). Either he learns how to qualify for the early stages of potential LTR, or he just gets stuck on spinning plates. Sooner or later guys need to learn how to have a mature relationship. Not some b grade effort attempt followed by a horror story.
The guys that end up in $hitty relationships, generally are the ones that preached the loudest about avoiding them. And its through a lack of experience that brings them undone.
We are grown ass men.... Either he can handle his $hit or he will soon learn. But to eject at this stage is up to his judgement. We give him a guide to potential pitfalls based on experience. Not fear based absolutes.
I've advised to drop if anything arises already.
This is where a lot of guys are f.ucking up on this board. You can no longer interact with women on a normal level. Women ain't a threat, you just walk the f.uck away.

 

[Die Hard]

You can't class every woman out there a "cluster b" just to be on the safe side.

YOU are not able to recognize the signs that point to cluster B and YOU you cannot tell apart a cluster B woman from one who is not. So I understand that FOR YOU it might make sense to class every woman cluster B just to be on the safe side.

Contrary to you, I am able to recognize the signs, I can tell apart a cluster B woman from one who is not. So to me it makes no sense to class every woman cluster B, like it does to you.

So when I say Ztime's woman is cluster B, please don't project your own ignorance about the subject onto me and accuse me of classing every woman cluster B. That is something only YOU would do, because you can't recognize the signs. I don't have that problem, I only class a woman cluster B if I see the signs.




The rest of your post is well meant, but out of place because you don't realize Ztime is dealing with a cluster B type. You are right, we should not shy away from women out of fear... We should indeed ENGAGE women in order to learn how to qualify for the early stages of potential LTR, to learn how to have a mature relationship etc.

But this applies to dealing with women IN GENERAL. When it comes to dealing with cluster B types however, it does not apply! Learning how to handle yourself by engaging women in general, is like learning how to swim by taking swimming lessons in a swimming pool. But engaging cluster B types is the same as jumping into a river where the current is so strong you will likely drown...

 

[hithard]

YOU are not able to recognize the signs that point to cluster B and YOU you cannot tell apart a cluster B woman from one who is not. So I understand that FOR YOU it might make sense to class every woman cluster B just to be on the safe side.

Contrary to you, I am able to recognize the signs, I can tell apart a cluster B woman from one who is not. So to me it makes no sense to class every woman cluster B, like it does to you.

So when I say Ztime's woman is cluster B, please don't project your own ignorance about the subject onto me and accuse me of classing every woman cluster B. That is something only YOU would do, because you can't recognize the signs. I don't have that problem, I only class a woman cluster B if I see the signs.




The rest of your post is well meant, but out of place because you don't realize Ztime is dealing with a cluster B type. You are right, we should not shy away from women out of fear... We should indeed ENGAGE women in order to learn how to qualify for the early stages of potential LTR, to learn how to have a mature relationship etc.

But this applies to dealing with women IN GENERAL. When it comes to dealing with cluster B types however, it does not apply! Learning how to handle yourself by engaging women in general, is like learning how to swim by taking swimming lessons in a swimming pool. But engaging cluster B types is the same as jumping into a river where the current is so strong you will likely drown...

I deal with cluster b frequently and I had a ltr with one a long time ago- so I know the signs. Pretty sure I have been pointing out this chicks bad points and it doesn't rate a "cluster b" tag yet. These chicks are out there- so learn to deal with it.
Cluster b's are not some mythical creature to be feared. They only get their hooks in if you are a sucker for white knighting and easy sex. Your first time around should be your last time around.
As I have been stressing all the way through: make sure you position yourself so they can't land a punch.

 

[guru1000]

Diehard, I'm interested in why you think she is a Cluster B. I'm not opining whether she is or isn't. I just want to hear how the facts ZTime delineated lead to your Cluster B prognosis.

To Ztime: I love you man. Yet, if I never chat with you again; I'm ok with that. I use "I love you" as a beta throw within 30-45 days of meeting a girl. That's part of my beta-game. "Love you" means nothing for you and for her (yet she may not be aware that she truly doesn't love you as you are simply meeting at least one of her intimate needs and thus confusing this with "love"). So whether you are receiving or giving "love" really means nothing.

Move forward, with this understanding, and you will always be in a safe place.

 

[ZTIME]

Diehard, I'm interested in why you think she is a Cluster B. I'm not opining whether she is or isn't. I just want to hear how the facts ZTime delineated lead to your Cluster B prognosis..

I second this request. Diehard has been here for awhile and offers some solid advice. I'd like to know if there's something I've missed. Other then the relatively fast "I love you", was there something else?

As for maintaining my frame, I think I've done a pretty solid job. My work and social schedule remain on point. I haven't "white knighted" anything. I've never invited her to my place (although she pushes for me to invite her). I don't pay for everything. If you see or think there's something I'm doing wrong, I'm open to listen.

 

[hithard]

Too quick to "I love you"

Psych major

Her "different" approach.

Your quick feelings to being hooked in.

Her drama to get her way in public.

Trying to get the "I love you" from you.

B's can hide the condition pretty well for a time. They need to know they have you locked down fast before their issues begin to show.

 

[hithard]

I mean die hard no disrespect. He provides solid advice and is looking out for a fellow brother. We just follow different methods.
I have a high turn over rate when it comes to women so I don't get caught up in hanging around throw backs.
Diehard is taking the position that you are still green around the gills and have already attracted a "B" before, so you have form. He is just confirming earlier then what I like too.

 

[CMNILS87]

@ZTIME @Die Hard

Even the best fall down sometimes. They even made a song about it. My ode to you

 

[Die Hard]

I second this request. Diehard has been here for awhile and offers some solid advice. I'd like to know if there's something I've missed. Other then the relatively fast "I love you", was there something else?

You are still in denial (trust me, I can tell...) so it's futile to try and reason with you at the moment. I'm not trying to fvck with you, it just is what it is.


@guru: I just came to this thread to give Ztime some advice, I'll leave it at that.

@hithard: I mean you no disrespect either. Perhaps you are good at defending yourself against cluster B women getting their hooks into you, but that would make you an exception.

 

[ZTIME]

Too quick to "I love you"

Psych major

Her "different" approach.

Your quick feelings to being hooked in.

Her drama to get her way in public.

Trying to get the "I love you" from you.

B's can hide the condition pretty well for a time. They need to know they have you locked down fast before their issues begin to show.

All right. I'm going to hit the brakes on this one and slow it down a bit.

Let's say you guys are right and the chick is a cluster b. Am I supposed to just walk away or is there some shvt I should be looking for?

At 45 you would think I'd have this figured out, but I'm just wondering what type of issues are going to begin to show.

Diehard says it's denial. I think it's more me not understanding exactly what I'm dealing with. I read all the BPD threads and wouldn't classify this one like that.

 

[daddymonsterpoodle]

****.. I dont even know what you mean by cluster B. Do you mean bi-polar.?

If cluster b means borderline crazy, high maintenance and manipulative then strong frame, IDGAF should help.

 

[hithard]

Little back story. She is recently divorced. She says she didn't want to fall for a guy and doesn't understand her feelings for me ( fake chick talk...I don't know).

She has a good job and can support herself, but not near my lifestyle ( maybe she's attracted to that).

She has a psychology degree which immediately throws red flags (psychologists have the worst pasts).

She seems genuine, but way to genuine. (Like nothing I've ever seen)

The restaurant thing threw me for a loop. She started talking about love but started crying saying that I would leave her. She also says that she tries to spend a lot of time with me because she thinks I won't be back the next day. ( I feel like she's hiding something that she's worried I'll discover or I'm just out of her league)

I've maintained my frame and think she's super cool, but I still think there's something I'm missing. I could be developing feelings myself but not as quickly as she seems to be.

I skipped over this post before and missed a few details:

Divorce
Any details on this?
Length of marriage?

Her friends.
Have you talked to any of them?

Self confidence issues in your presence.


Your wealth creates not only a strong attraction, but also a strong hook. The emotional ups and downs and social settings you can provide will bring out a kind of pseudo crazy with women. The amateurs will dead set come off as loons as they need to play beyond just looks. The dangerous ones will be a lot smoother and self entitled.
Either way- you are holding all the cards. And you must always protect your position.

There are a lot of threads on "cluster b's" and what to look for.
Generally it's attempts to get you to white knight.

A lack of close friends.

Over the top emotional responses to minor things.

Plenty of sex and the view that sex=love.

I would look up high functioning bpd or the like for tips on what to look out for.

I still don't want to conclusively classify this girl as anything just yet.

 

[sodbuster]

****ty place to pull the "I love you" insecure card..... makes me a bit nervous. My brother just went through one similar. She was in love and talking future after a month. She just ended it, but now he see's the crazy..... she claimed he was lying because he didn't say anything when she asked if he f&cked a certain girl. He's 54, he has a past..... Now she's posting **** on FB, in a small town. A bunch of semi red flags were ignored, because women ARE scarce in small town South Dakota....

 

[ZTIME]

I skipped over this post before and missed a few details:

Divorce
Any details on this?
Length of marriage?

Her friends.
Have you talked to any of them?

Self confidence issues in your presence.


Your wealth creates not only a strong attraction, but also a strong hook. The emotional ups and downs and social settings you can provide will bring out a kind of pseudo crazy with women. The amateurs will dead set come off as loons as they need to play beyond just looks. The dangerous ones will be a lot smoother and self entitled.
Either way- you are holding all the cards. And you must always protect your position.

There are a lot of threads on "cluster b's" and what to look for.
Generally it's attempts to get you to white knight.

A lack of close friends.

Over the top emotional responses to minor things.

Plenty of sex and the view that sex=love.

I would look up high functioning bpd or the like for tips on what to look out for.

I still don't want to conclusively classify this girl as anything just yet.

Married for 11 years. 9 yr old daughter. Marrige ended when husband cheated.(her story).

Met a couple of her friends. Normal people who seem down to earth.

My $$ never really comes up in conversation as she works and supports herself. The only time it has come up was when I picked her up in my car (ZTIME, this is a really nice car).

 

[BetterCallSaul]

Too quick to "I love you"

Psych major

Her "different" approach.

Your quick feelings to being hooked in.

Her drama to get her way in public.

Trying to get the "I love you" from you.

B's can hide the condition pretty well for a time. They need to know they have you locked down fast before their issues begin to show.

I am leaning slightly toward Die Hard's recommendation pretty much for the above listed reasons. I weighed in early on in this thread thinking this chick was in tune to game and I still think she is. I now think that since she's in tune with this stuff that she's trying to use it to her advantage.

The quick i love you is one note, however I would also take note of the separate fact that she chose to cry in a restaurant. By the time women get to middle age they can typically control their emotions a little better and she chose that moment for a reason and I agree it was the public shaming aspect hoping that Ztime would capitulate.

So my suggestion to Z is if you want to keep seeing this chick that's fine but do not get into any sort of lovey-dovey emotional relationship crap with her. Just enjoy your time together, have fun, and if she keeps insisting on bogging you down with more guilt-laden, teary eyed pleas of exclusive relationship status, play aloof and say you just want to take it slow. I think she knows exactly what she's doing.