Napoleon Hill, Brian Tracy, and the LOA

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Good post taiyu.

Wolf this is a loaded topic, and it's been brought up here several times before. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, just like you are entitled to yours, and no one is under any obligation to prove a negative to you.

Like taiyu mentioned, this goes way beyond materialism. It's about aligning your beliefs with your actions. The basic principle is to let go, start living in the moment, and enjoying life. That seems to be the space where most of these things manifest from.

So you need to ask yourself why it matters to you personally at all.

Who cares?
 

wolf116

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reset said:
Good post taiyu.

Wolf this is a loaded topic, and it's been brought up here several times before. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, just like you are entitled to yours, and no one is under any obligation to prove a negative to you.

Like taiyu mentioned, this goes way beyond materialism. It's about aligning your beliefs with your actions. The basic principle is to let go, start living in the moment, and enjoying life. That seems to be the space where most of these things manifest from.

So you need to ask yourself why it matters to you personally at all.

Who cares?
EDIT: Your right, what's the point.
Yes I'm aware of the many threads on this sh!t.

Live your life of ignorance. Don't look too deeply into your beliefs though, you may just see the harsh truth.

I'm just pissed off because I was fooled by this joke.


This stuff is not harmless, you are teaching people that they will always receive abundance in life if only they wish hard enough with positive thoughts. When reality hits it cant be too much for some.
 

wolf116

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reset said:
and no one is under any obligation to prove a negative to you.
Fine, prove the support by physics and scientists then. Prove that you can overcome the the laws of chance.
 

slaog

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wolf116 said:
You guys keep bringing up science and quantum physics but you are yet to link any real support from an actual scientist.

Prove me wrong.

There was only one scientist they could find for the secret and he tried to sue them for his misrepresentation.

SHOW ME EINSTEINS SUPPORT FOR LOA! WHY WONT YOU SHOW ME?

If any of you can beat the odd using LOA, why dont you prove it and make millions?
I've an interesting article here for ya. I've highlighted a few interesting bits.


http://ezinearticles.com/?Law-of-Attraction---Believe-It,-Or-Not&id=998077
Those who are familiar with The Secret know that it has to do with something called the Law of Attraction (LOA), which very simply put is; Like attracts like, or What you think about, you bring about. Of the thousands of people who claim to have positively changed their lives via LOA, you will find those who state that it was already an "instinctive" knowledge prior to discovering it was actually a long held, yet little known, theory. And then of course, there are those who have had none of the aforementioned experiences. Does the Law of Attraction truly exist, or is it merely the power of suggestion and coincidence?

There are varying explanations or circumstances for the diverse experiences of those exploring LOA; Lack of belief, synchronicity, self-sabotage, coincidence, misperception, psychosomatic illness, serendipity, etc... Indeed, it is certainly much easier to accept one or all of the labels above, than to believe the "Universe" is actually being effected by one's thoughts. Surely, commonsense leads us to believe otherwise. It all seemed like laughable science fiction nonsense to me, but Harvard University graduate Gary Zukav made it quite clear that quantum mechanical phenomenon (attributed to LOA) often contradicts commonsense.

In his American Book Award winning work: The Dancing Wu Li Masters, Mr. Zukav states; "Commonsense contradictions...are at the heart of the new physics...They tell us again and again that the world may not be what we think it is. It may be much, much more." But how does this support the notion that we can influence our reality or the Universe, with our thoughts? So I began to dig a little and discovered that there is certainly more than anecdotal evidence to support such an outrageous claim.

The "digging" began when I ordered a certain book online and it came with a free gift book: Thought Vibration-The Secret of Success- Thought Force, a work of three books in one binding, by William Walker Atkinson published in 1906. This incident of serendipity provided my first true introduction to the effects of the mind and the first time I heard of the "Law of Thought Attraction". But it was Excuse Me, Your Life is Waiting by Lynn Grabhorn that presented the Law of Attraction in a more casual writing style. The Power of Belief by Ray Dodd, also inspired me to continue my research into the possibility. And while I was still reading, The Secret of the Ages by Robert Collier, Oprah Winfrey galvanized every viewer into talking about The Secret, both the popular DVD and the book by Rhonda Byrne. At the time of this writing, Oprah is preparing for yet another segment on The Secret.

What is all the fuss about? Could there really be something to this idea or theory? It was great that there were people in the past who seemed so totally convinced as to the validity of LOA, they wrote books about it. Yet, because they passionately believe it, doesn't necessarily make it so. Although some of the authors of the books mentioned above affirm it, I still wondered if there truly was any scientific basis or professional support for the theory of LOA.

According to The Holographic Universe by the late Michael Talbot; University of London physicist David Bohm, a protégé of Einstein and one of the world's most respected quantum physicists, has admitted in private conversation to believing the Universe is all "thought" and reality exist only in what we think.

In The Dancing Wu Li Masters, Mr. Zukav goes on to say; "...The implications of quantum mechanics are psychedelic, not only do we influence our reality, but, in some degree, we actually create it."

In The Secret DVD; Quantum Physicist, Award winning author, Dr. Fred Alan Wolf states; "I'm not talking...from the point of view of wishful thinking or imaginary craziness. I'm talking...from a deeper, basic understanding....Quantum physics says...you can't have a Universe without mind entering into it...mind is actually shaping the very thing that is being perceived."

Although it should be noted that this is just one interpretation of the evidence and isn't the conclusion of all physicists, the compelling evidence still exists that the only time electrons and other "quanta" (plural of quantum) manifest as particles is when they are being observed by someone. Otherwise, they behave as waves.

Michael Talbot used the analogy of a bowling ball in The Holographic Universe; "This is as strange as owning a bowling ball that traces a single line down the lane while you are watching it, but leaves a wave pattern every time you blink your eyes."

And Biologist/Scientist Lyall Watson, who has had years of firsthand experience of "miraculous" occurrences, states; "I have no doubt that reality is in a very large part a construct of the imagination....I think we have the capacity to change the world around us in quite fundamental ways."

Okay, so there is some mainstream scientific support for the LOA theory. Are we the only Oprah culture touting the Law of Attraction? What about other cultures or religions, can it be found there as well?

Hawaiian shaman, or Kahunas, believe thoughts are things composed of a subtle energetic substance they call kino mea or "shadowy body stuff". This does not vanish after it leaves the mind, rather, it turns into thought forms that are used by the high self to create our future. Thus, Kahunas consider it extremely important for people to take time out and think about their lives and visualize in concrete terms what they wished to happen to themselves because in doing so, people can consciously make their own future.

12th century Persian Sufis believed in the importance of visualization to create or alter one's destiny. They called the energy matter of thought "alam almithal". For them, control of the heart chakra, or himma, along with visualization, was needed to steer the course of one's fate.

Tibetan tantric mystics referred to the "stuff" of thoughts as tsal and asserted that every mental action produced waves of tsal. They believed the entire Universe is a product of the mind. (much like physicist David Bohm privately related to the late Michael Talbot) Tantric yogis repeatedly used visualization exercises, or "sadhanas", for their desired life creations.

It appears there is a wide range of disparate sources for the theory of LOA as well;

"As a man thinketh in his heart, so he is." - Proverbs 23:7

"We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts we make the world." - Buddha

"All things in the world of nature are not controlled by fate for the soul has a principle of it's own." - Iamblichus (4th century Greek philosopher.)

"As a man acts, so does he become. As a man's desire is, so is his destiny." - the Hindu Brihadaranyaka Upanishad

"Therefore I say onto you, what things soever ye desire when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." - Mark 11:24

Some may say it is simply coincidence that the presence of the idea that we can create our own destiny is in so many different cultures and times. But, is a recurring coincidence still considered a coincidence? Or can this actually be an indication or sign that it is something we all intuitively know to be true?


When the late Michael Talbot placed this idea within the holographic reality paradigm of his book The Holographic Universe he concluded, as I do; "In a holographic universe - a universe in which the mind participates with reality...- the notion that we are also the sculptors of our own fate is not so far- fetched. It even seems probable."

John Pagan
Andrew Carnegie was the worlds richest man and he created 43 millionaires using law of attraction. Bill Gates believes in it and many more.

You've 2 choices. You can believe that everything is a result of luck chance or believe that you make your own luck..
 

wolf116

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OK I'll address the highlighted parts.

1. Gary is not a scientist, he showed up to a meeting then wrote a book about quantum physics???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Zukav

2. David Bohm said that in private conversation did he. Well he's dead so we can't ask him but I'd be suspicious of this. Many people have manipulated David's writings to try to "prove" all sorts of alternate views. He has never mentioned LOA!

3. Dr. Fred Alan Wolf was absolutely furious with he representation in the secret.

4. Some biologist who wrote a book and knows nothing of quantum physics.

5. then some bible quotes???
 

wolf116

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slaog said:
You've 2 choices. You can believe that everything is a result of luck chance or believe that you make your own luck..
Tell that to the starving Africans, the retards, spastics and cancer patients.

I know! they should just apply the LOA and perform a miracle like the guy in the secret. (can't remember, cancer patient was it?)

Will the people who know the power of the secret stay healthy forever?

You have 2 choices in what you believe in, but that won't change reality no matter how hard you try.
 

slaog

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wolf116 said:
OK I'll address the highlighted parts.

1. Gary is not a scientist, he showed up to a meeting then wrote a book about quantum physics???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Zukav

2. David Bohm said that in private conversation did he. Well he's dead so we can't ask him but I'd be suspicious of this. Many people have manipulated David's writings to try to "prove" all sorts of alternate views.

3. Dr. Fred Alan Wolf was absolutely furious with he representation in the secret.

4. Some biologist who wrote a book and knows nothing of quantum physics.

5. then some bible quotes???
Just like some people believe they're not good enough to get a girl and go out of there way to convince themselves of all the reasons why, you believe theres no such thing as the law of attraction.

Why don't you show some evidence that LOA doesn't exist? ;)
 

wolf116

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slaog said:
Just like some people believe they're not good enough to get a girl and go out of there way to convince themselves of all the reasons why, you believe theres no such thing as the law of attraction.

Why don't you show some evidence that LOA doesn't exist? ;)
I'm not going to comment on that comparaison because it is totally flawed.

As for proving something doesn't exits. That's not the way science works, LOA must be proved not the absence of it.
 

reset

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wolf116 said:
Fine, prove the support by physics and scientists then. Prove that you can overcome the the laws of chance.
Go to google and type in "quantum physics and law of attraction".
 

slaog

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wolf116 said:
As for proving something doesn't exits. That's not the way science works, LOA must be proved not the absence of it.
In the middle ages everybody was convinced the world was flat... those who said it was round were dismissed as being mad. We'll convince you yet Wolf! :up:

Do you believe that some people are luckier than others?
 

guru1000

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The law of attraction is quite simple actually.

I am not going to say that POSITIVE THOUGHTS will GUARANTEE success.

But POSITIVE THOUGHTS + WILL + ACTION= POSITIVE RESULT.

I will say that you cannot have POSITIVE SUCCESS with NEGATIVE THINKING. In this way, the LOA is correct.

You cannot place LOA in black or white thinking. 100% SUCCESS or 100% FAILURE. Most of the time, you will fall somewhere in between.

Nothing in life is guaranteed except for death and taxes.

However, one thing is for sure and two things are for certain. Negative Thoughts will breed your demise.
 

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guru1000 said:
The law of attraction is quite simple actually.

I am not going to say that POSITIVE THOUGHTS will GUARANTEE success.

But POSITIVE THOUGHTS + WILL + ACTION= POSITIVE RESULT.

I will say that you cannot have POSITIVE SUCCESS with NEGATIVE THINKING. In this way, the LOA is correct.

You cannot place LOA in black or white thinking. 100% SUCCESS or 100% FAILURE. Most of the time, you will fall somewhere in between.

Nothing in life is guaranteed except for death and taxes.

However, one thing is for sure and two things are for certain. Negative Thoughts will breed your demise.
This is the primary formula with Magick. True Magick. I've been earnestly working on my own branch of Thelemic based Magick with a dash of the A.·. A.·. structured initiation ritual, sprinkled in with some of Kenneth Grant and Frater Achad's Kabbalistic work.

Positive creative visualization + Rhythmic breathing techniques + Concentrated sigil working + Concentrated intent = Desired result in conformity with your own WILL.

I plan on posting some of my yogic/meditative practices in a thread in short time.
 

reset

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I believe everything in the universe is connected. Your mind can influence reality because reality and your mind are the same thing. I experience it every day, and it has been a struggle for me to come to grips with how big it is, but it's big. If it's something that doesn't speak to you then let it go. But you really can't judge something you have no first-hand experience of.

The formula is simple but not easy, and it's the same formula that's been around forever, call it positive thinking or loa or whatever.

Stay positive, see in your mind what you want to experience and take whatever action you feel will bring you closer to that. That is this site in a nutshell. The only difference with LOA, is that while you are moving towards what you want, at the same time what you want is moving towards you.
 

wolf116

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slaog said:
In the middle ages everybody was convinced the world was flat... those who said it was round were dismissed as being mad. We'll convince you yet Wolf! :up:

Do you believe that some people are luckier than others?
In the middle ages, people could not travel the globe to prove the world was round. I know this is a sham because it can be tested.

Some people create more opportunities then others, but no one has ever been shown to beat the odds in a controlled test.

@guru100, positive thinking and LOA are totally different things. Your definition of the LOA is false and you should research it more before you make your own definition for this.

Positive thinking is common sense.
 

Master Bates

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reset said:
I believe everything in the universe is connected. Your mind can influence reality because reality and your mind are the same thing.
lay off the acid.
 

wolf116

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reset said:
I believe everything in the universe is connected. Your mind can influence reality because reality and your mind are the same thing. I experience it every day, and it has been a struggle for me to come to grips with how big it is, but it's big. If it's something that doesn't speak to you then let it go. But you really can't judge something you have no first-hand experience of.

The formula is simple but not easy, and it's the same formula that's been around forever, call it positive thinking or loa or whatever.

Stay positive, see in your mind what you want to experience and take whatever action you feel will bring you closer to that. That is this site in a nutshell. The only difference with LOA, is that while you are moving towards what you want, at the same time what you want is moving towards you.
Have you even seen the secret? You can't only take parts of it to be true.

Of cause I know how powerful positive thinking can be. It's not magic though, it just causes action.
 

guru1000

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wolf116 said:
@guru100, positive thinking and LOA are totally different things. Your definition of the LOA is false and you should research it more before you make your own definition for this.

Positive thinking is common sense.
Hey YOUNGBUCK,

The LAW OF ATTRACTION is POSITIVE THINKING at it's core.

You apply the FOUNDATION to BUILD the house.

If you deny POSITIVE AFFIRMATION at the age of 20, tell me how your life went when you reach 30.
 

reset

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wolf116 said:
Have you even seen the secret? You can't only take parts of it to be true.

Of cause I know how powerful positive thinking can be. It's not magic though, it just causes action.
Yeah, I've seen it a few times. I'm not sure what your question is though. I'm not taking any part out. The secret wasn't my introduction to this either, I was introduced to it about fifteen years ago.

And, you don't know what you're talking about. You have no acknowledged experience. You're just saying stuff.

My point was that positive thinking and LOA are very similar because that's how it works.

Again, if it's not something that adds to your life, then what is the point.
 
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