My wife rejecting my new ways...

[StrawHat]

Been married for 5 years this June.

We had been together for 3 years before that.

Of those 8 years - the first 4 were AMAZING. My wife can be a little fiery, but i've always been pretty good at handling that. Perhaps too good.

After the first 4 years, we switched pretty much from having great sex, intense moments, and lots of laughter... To pretty much having a mundane co-dependant relationship.

Our typical weekday would have us both getting off work, coming home, eating dinner and talking about our day, then going up and watching tv/playing on the internet for the remainder of the night together.... Having sex about once a week in a very textbook way (her saying "want to have sex tonight?")

I'm in normalville and i hate it! I think she does too...


So, i've done archive searches here and fast seduction. Read legendary posts, picked up some books, and have digested it as best as i can....

One of the first things i've started doing is picking up some hobbies and reconnecting with friends who i stopped hanging out with after marriage.


- I took up a kettlebell class, that i go to 3 times a week.
- I took up jogging, which i do 3 times a week (combined with kettlebell training: only on sundays do i not work out)
- At work - A co-worker was telling me about how a bunch of them (all women) had signed up to be part of this breast cancer awareness team that meets once a week. They go out to campuses/malls/conventions and pass out stuff to women. I instantly said i was interested! We meet once a week for meetings (only 30 minutes), BUT go out and do things on the town to increase awareness 2-3 times a month.
- I've started hanging out with 2 out of 3 of my best friends from high school again. Sometimes we go out, sometimes they come over and hang out with me.
- I used to draw comics and i have began to do that again.

I'd say all these things have cut into my "cuddle" and "quality" time with my wife by only about 30%... That means if we used to spend 30 hours a week doing "common married people stuff" (aka: nothing lol) - we now spend about 20 hours a week doing that stuff.

Positive Impact? Noticeable increase in sex (we're doing it about 10 times a month now and it's increasing!). She also seems in general more flirtatious towards me. I personally enjoy our relationship more now.

However, There's a negative impact...

Her fiery ways (which had pretty much disappeared into the boredom) are back! Perhaps this is due to her increase in sex drive since i've read they're connected. I don't know...

We had a HUGE argument last night because she wanted me home at 6 and i had kettlebell until 6:30 and she said, "take this one night off for me" and i said, "I'll see you around 6:45"...

When i got home (at 6:45) she layed all this stuff on me about how my social life has become more important than my wife...

HER: Do you have fun doing all this new stuff without me?
ME: Yes, i have tons of fun killing my body in the gym.
HER: You must, because you spend every free hour in there!!!
at this point, im remembering not to get sucked into her frame:
ME: Yeah, exactly. So, did you make the veal cutlets?

That actually worked! We went into a conversation about that. We had a normal dinner, talked about some stuff....

Then it came up again a few hours later.

HER: Maybe i should start doing all these new things with guys from work.
ME: I only do 1 thing with people from work. But, I agree with you. Maybe you should.
HER: You're being an @ss. Why don't you invite me to workout with you or to hang out with you and your friends? You don't like hanging out with me anymore?
ME: (im getting sucked in here) Of course i like hanging out with you! I still hang out with you more than anyone else! My friends and I like to hangout alone.
HER: What are you fvcking them? (she's talking about my male friends and being a b!tch at this point!)

It continued into the night like this...

Ultimately, i want to avoid flatly telling her that hanging out as much as we were is unhealthy and a quick way to a bored life... That im doing these things to be more attracted to her and to be more attracted. Etc....


Do you think that's wise?
Should i flatly tell her that I'm doing these things to improve myself and our marriage?

She seemed ok with it at first, but now she's obviously not! I have a feeling she's going to bring it up again today. She doesn't seem to mind the jogging thing, but any element that includes me being social with other people besides her seems to bug her!

Perhaps jealousy is the issue here... Perhaps i need to figure out a way to get her involved in her own hobbies???


Anyway: We fvcked last night! lol... Got her fired up, and then ended the conversation to take a shower and she came and joined me 5 minutes later!


- She's undoubtedly becoming more sexually attracted to me because of this. Is the cost of that going to be increased arguing?

 

[Warrior74]

My wife rejecting my new ways...
Been married for 5 years this June.

We had been together for 3 years before that.

Of those 8 years - the first 4 were AMAZING. My wife can be a little fiery, but i've always been pretty good at handling that. Perhaps too good.

After the first 4 years, we switched pretty much from having great sex, intense moments, and lots of laughter... To pretty much having a mundane co-dependant relationship.

Our typical weekday would have us both getting off work, coming home, eating dinner and talking about our day, then going up and watching tv/playing on the internet for the remainder of the night together.... Having sex about once a week in a very textbook way (her saying "want to have sex tonight?")

I'm in normalville and i hate it! I think she does too...


So, i've done archive searches here and fast seduction. Read legendary posts, picked up some books, and have digested it as best as i can....

One of the first things i've started doing is picking up some hobbies and reconnecting with friends who i stopped hanging out with after marriage.


- I took up a kettlebell class, that i go to 3 times a week.
- I took up jogging, which i do 3 times a week (combined with kettlebell training: only on sundays do i not work out)
- At work - A co-worker was telling me about how a bunch of them (all women) had signed up to be part of this breast cancer awareness team that meets once a week. They go out to campuses/malls/conventions and pass out stuff to women. I instantly said i was interested! We meet once a week for meetings (only 30 minutes), BUT go out and do things on the town to increase awareness 2-3 times a month.
- I've started hanging out with 2 out of 3 of my best friends from high school again. Sometimes we go out, sometimes they come over and hang out with me.
- I used to draw comics and i have began to do that again.

I'd say all these things have cut into my "cuddle" and "quality" time with my wife by only about 30%... That means if we used to spend 30 hours a week doing "common married people stuff" (aka: nothing lol) - we now spend about 20 hours a week doing that stuff.

Positive Impact? Noticeable increase in sex (we're doing it about 10 times a month now and it's increasing!). She also seems in general more flirtatious towards me. I personally enjoy our relationship more now.

However, There's a negative impact...

Her fiery ways (which had pretty much disappeared into the boredom) are back! Perhaps this is due to her increase in sex drive since i've read they're connected. I don't know...

We had a HUGE argument last night because she wanted me home at 6 and i had kettlebell until 6:30 and she said, "take this one night off for me" and i said, "I'll see you around 6:45"...

When i got home (at 6:45) she layed all this stuff on me about how my social life has become more important than my wife...

HER: Do you have fun doing all this new stuff without me?
ME: Yes, i have tons of fun killing my body in the gym.
HER: You must, because you spend every free hour in there!!!
at this point, im remembering not to get sucked into her frame:
ME: Yeah, exactly. So, did you make the veal cutlets?

That actually worked! We went into a conversation about that. We had a normal dinner, talked about some stuff....

Then it came up again a few hours later.

HER: Maybe i should start doing all these new things with guys from work.
ME: I only do 1 thing with people from work. But, I agree with you. Maybe you should.
HER: You're being an @ss. Why don't you invite me to workout with you or to hang out with you and your friends? You don't like hanging out with me anymore?
ME: (im getting sucked in here) Of course i like hanging out with you! I still hang out with you more than anyone else! My friends and I like to hangout alone.
HER: What are you fvcking them? (she's talking about my male friends and being a b!tch at this point!)

It continued into the night like this...

Ultimately, i want to avoid flatly telling her that hanging out as much as we were is unhealthy and a quick way to a bored life... That im doing these things to be more attracted to her and to be more attracted. Etc....


Do you think that's wise?
Should i flatly tell her that I'm doing these things to improve myself and our marriage?

She seemed ok with it at first, but now she's obviously not! I have a feeling she's going to bring it up again today. She doesn't seem to mind the jogging thing, but any element that includes me being social with other people besides her seems to bug her!

Perhaps jealousy is the issue here... Perhaps i need to figure out a way to get her involved in her own hobbies???


Anyway: We fvcked last night! lol... Got her fired up, and then ended the conversation to take a shower and she came and joined me 5 minutes later!


- She's undoubtedly becoming more sexually attracted to me because of this. Is the cost of that going to be increased arguing?

Don't go ruining it now with logic and explaining. Her "fiery temper" is just her way of saying she's turned on. You KNOW women love a challenge. So how does she react to a challenge? She tries to punk you out with her Fiery Temper. If you fall for it, you both go back to your boring lives you had before and eventually divorce or just bordem and death. If you explain to her, you'll lose all respect and you'll never be able to do it again because she will know exactly what you are doing. She's testing you to see if you are gonna cave, if you are afraid of her. Brush it off...stop treating her like she's important...obviously she loves it. She's happier now than she's been in ages. Just don't talk so much...and never ever explain why you are doing what you are doing...magicians and tricks and that.

Fortune is a woman, and fortune like women favor the bold. Don't go soft on us now, you're doing great!

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

I would advise you to stay your course, and to remember that change is always a bit uncomfortable, even if it's for the good.

And I would run c&f when she insinuates cheating.

 

[Andy_Dufresne]

Obviously what you are doing is working. She is more attracted to you than before and overall you are happier now, are you not?

When we first started dating I told my girlfriend outright, "I do what I want, when I want." Three years later - so far, so good. Of course she argues, sh^t tests and gets jealous when I go off fishing with my friends, or to the gym, or to a rock show, but...she is still around and is as attracted to me as the week we met.

Encourage your wife to get a life of her own...her own hobbies, her own friends. What's great about this sort of lifestyle is that even though you are together less, the together times are way more intense and exciting, as you are discovering. There is always a trust issue; I fight this with my girlfriend and you will get sh^t tested on it from time to time as well.

Under no circumstance let your wife steal the frame.

Give it time. She will catch on.

 

[scottfall]

Your wife likes drama, so continue to create it.. your giving her what she wants so you get what you want. Have fun.

 

[Powerlifter]

I think arguing is a nice trade off for good sex unless sex sucks then it's not for it would be to annoying and nothing to look forward to.

Most wives will do what you are doing they will go to classmates.com to reconnect with old friends to spice up a boring married life in hopes of making it more appealing and fun and alive like it was in the beginning.

Sometimes unless the marriage is weak it can lead to divorce due to the one or the other not feeling secure enough or their self esteem is in the dirt.

I'd say keep doing what your doing and sounds like your in the drivers seat a nice place to be in my opinion.

 

[st_99]

Congrats, instead of moaning and b*tching about why your life/marriage stinks you've actually don't something about it!

BUT, I would be careful not to go getting all high, mighty and ****y. I really think that you two doing 1 thing TOGETHER as she suggested would be a great idea. Something active, athletic, work up a sweat or whatever really. But continue to do the other things on your own. I don't think what you should be going for is for her to feel bad about herself, it will back fire.

This would take your marriage into a real positive direction, IMO.

 

[StrawHat]

Thank you all!

I just needed some reassurance that i was on the right path! I will do my best not to get pulled into logical argument with her; i've already learned the power of frame control and see how much more powerful that is over just arguing.

As far as including her in a hobby? We have TONS of hobbies we do together. Pretty boring married stuff, but i think we both enjoy it. But perhaps i should try to figure out a social hobby we could do together on the weekends or something. Any ideas?

 

[Nutz]

If you've got your sh!t together they'll b!tch and moan about stuff you do, but they'll put up with it and come back. It's just them blowing off steam for not having you wrapped around their finder. The big picture is you standing your ground, not bowing to her pressure, will make her all that more attracted to you as you're finding out.

This is really counter-intuitive to a lot of people and on it's face it seems wrong/sexist, but women LOVE strong men who don't put up with their childish tantrums. That even hand, a swift swat on their ass from time to time, and leadership is what they crave deep down. This is why women will take 5 minutes with an alpha over years with a beta. Happens every night at the clubs when women cheat on their husbands.

In other words women are more likely to accept just having part of a winner than all of a loser. If you're a winner and she's only getting part of you, she'll be far more likely to tolerate you hanging out with friends and doing your social life stuff than sitting at home with Mr Boring Beta night after night. My ex hated hated hated it when I threw down the gauntlet and told her how it's gonna be. She huffed and puffed and stormed out. A couple days later she walked back in with her tail between her legs and said okay, that's better than the alternative. It's like a reverse ultimatum and they don't know how to handle it. Flipping the script on women has that effect a lot of times, but the net result is usually to our benefit as men by simply explaining it as "handling our business".

 

[jophil28]

Beause a woman is upset does not mean that she is upset.

 

[Jitterbug]

But perhaps i should try to figure out a social hobby we could do together on the weekends or something. Any ideas?

Take her to a dance class. The F:M ratio favours the guys, and with the new competition around, she will be even more fired up.

 

[boomerick]

Reframing on your wife is amazing.

When you pull sh!t you've read on this forum, even though it is completely out of character, and she reacts in the opposite way than you thought she would, but exactly how the DJ's here predicted she would, it is f*ckin' amazing!

Every time I pull DJ stuff on her now, I sit back, watch it work, and laugh to myself.

It's really sooo simple but untill you man up and try it and see it work you'd never believe it could be so eazy, and fun!

I've got a much better marriage now and a much fuller life.

AND wifey comes alive again in the bedroom as an extra bonus.

You just have to remember the testing and frame grabs NEVER stop!!!

Everyone replying is right. Hold your ground. She'll put up with WAY more than you ever thought she would!!!!!!

 

[survivorman]

"It's really sooo simple" Yes, yes it is.

"Because a woman is upset does not mean that she is upset." Yes, I agree.

..but I still lay awake at night - alone - and and dream of a world where such mind-fvckery is unnecessary..

 

[jophil28]

..but I still lay awake at night - alone - and and dream of a world where such mind-fvckery is unnecessary..

Not down here on the planet earth my good man, and certinly never with women...

You wife is experiencing what RT refers to as "competition anxiety", in a variety of ways.
She feels disturbed by significant disruption to the comfortable and predictable equilibrium that you and she created by default.

Your story is an inspiration to a lot of men, especially newbies with one finger and one toe out of the matrix. IT took a lot of nutpower to risk the backlash from her which was likely to follow your strivings for independence and autonomy . Great job..

However, be on guard against the demon lurking down in your belief system which will shout at you occasionally about "peace at any cost" and " keep the little woman happy."

Carry on, soldier.

 

[jophil28]

Take her to a dance class. The F:M ratio favours the guys, and with the new competition around, she will be even more fired up.

I agree. She is already feeling the competition from your newfound social activities. You might as well go for broke and introduce a few women into the mix.
There are plenty of single hungry women in dance classes.

 

[squirrels]

Thank you all!

I just needed some reassurance that i was on the right path! I will do my best not to get pulled into logical argument with her; i've already learned the power of frame control and see how much more powerful that is over just arguing.

As far as including her in a hobby? We have TONS of hobbies we do together. Pretty boring married stuff, but i think we both enjoy it. But perhaps i should try to figure out a social hobby we could do together on the weekends or something. Any ideas?

How does it feel to be alive again??

You've got the right idea. Try to find something where you have common ground. If you can suck her into ONE of your hobbies (not ALL of them, because then it'll be more about HER), that'd be great. But likely she's not gonna want to swing a kettlebell around.

She just wants to be included at this point. In SOMETHING. She doesn't want to become stuck in a dead life that you left behind.

The challenge becomes to lift her up, WITHOUT letting her drag you back down. And as everyone's saying, the key is frame-control.

 

[ThunderMaverick]

She just wants to be included at this point. In SOMETHING. She doesn't want to become stuck in a dead life that you left behind.

"a dead life you left behind" <-----I think that's whats going through her head right now, she's pissy because she's scared. I think it's great, but it's a balance. You don't want her to feel like she's completely shut out. I don't think you're doing that, but It might be a good idea like squirrels said and include her in at least ONE thing that's new and refreshing. That might take her out of her stagnant lifestyle also.

 

[zekko]

I agree. She is already feeling the competition from your newfound social activities. You might as well go for broke and introduce a few women into the mix.
There are plenty of single hungry women in dance classes.

Okay, this brings up a problem area for me, as I'm in a stable LTR also.
What should your behavior be toward other women when she is around?
I'm usually friendly and talk to them, but I'm not particularly flirty, never have been around women I'm not actually interested in. Mainly because if I'm not interested in them, then I'm not interested, so why flirt with them?

What is the DJ mentality on this situation (if there is one)? Should you flirt, but flirt lightly? What is the proper approach? Should you kino them? Where is the line that shouldn't be crossed, if there is one?

 

[jophil28]

Okay, this brings up a problem area for me, as I'm in a stable LTR also.
What should your behavior be toward other women when she is around?
I'm usually friendly and talk to them, but I'm not particularly flirty, never have been around women I'm not actually interested in. Mainly because if I'm not interested in them, then I'm not interested, so why flirt with them?

What is the DJ mentality on this situation (if there is one)? Should you flirt, but flirt lightly? What is the proper approach? Should you kino them? Where is the line that shouldn't be crossed, if there is one?

Good question Zeeko, and one which has NO simple "one size fits all " answer.

When I am seriously seeing someone, I continue to tease and kid around with other women in a way that is just one millimeter short of flirting. I avoid touching them unless I am dancing with them..
I enjoy the game and I can feel the extra boost in IL that it creates in my ladies.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Remember back in high school when you took drivers ed? One of the skills that you have to learn is that when you're in a skid you must turn the wheel into the skid. We can be told to do this and answer this question on a drivers test, but when you're actually in the situation of skidding every part of your natural instincts tells you to slam on the breaks. This of course only makes things worse and the car spins out of control. It 'feels' counterintuitive to actually turn into the skid, but when we can get past this sense of what we think 'ought' to be the correct response we find that the car rights itself.

There are a lot of experiences we can relate this analogy to. Martial Arts, Sky Diving, really anything that we'd (probably realistically) find dangerous and/or counterproductive to our betterment. Yet with practice and experience we find that we can sublimate these instincts to the point where the confidence in our learned abilities to use these skills replaces the natural response to prefer security, and they then become our new default responses.

It's not easy to take risks you're not accustomed to. The AFC, Nice Guy default seems to be the path of least resistance and one that provides the most secure way to ensure you get to a woman's intimacy. This has been conditioned into us and reinforced over the better part of our lives. It seems logical; it seems like an effective way to, if not prevent rejection, then to lessen the impact of it, or else as a preventative measure to 'keep the peace'. This is false security, and although it seems counterintuitive, you must unlearn the idea that you "have to" slam on the brakes and learn to turn into the skid - you have to train yorself for this to be the default response.