My Support Thread... Help me get over x , TY

feelingloved

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I got strength from these quotes:
There is a demand for good men (we are in short supply).
the more you contact the girl, the more you place yourself in the loser category with the ex.
'yay is me' perspective. all the amazing things in your life.
have not had a chick dump me since that fateful day way back in March of 2003.
 

joekerr31

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why the f*ck are you talking to your ex and telling her about dates you are going on?

that is so f*cked.

once a woman is out of your life MOVE ON. no contact. period.
its over.

YOU are the prize and they LOST IT.

when you stay in contact, no matter how casual, you are reaffirm she is the prize. the ONLY thing she has to offer you is sex and she ain't given you that. so when you engage in conversation with her with absolutely NO pay off it sends her ego sky rocketing.

the only excpetion is if you split with a high quality woman due to romantic incompatibility. occasional it is ok to turn an ex in to a friend. but its very rare, and certainly not the case in this scenario.
 

feelingloved

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You are right. Men exchange their attention and time and personality in exchange for sex (or the opportunity for sex).

I did not talk with her about the date(s), since letting her know I moved on. However, David D does say that the best way to get a girl back, is to move on, and let her know how well you are doing with the girls.

At this point, my aim is to move on. I've joined an ultimate frisbee team. I'm talking with a couple of girls on line. I'm finding some local guys who are looking for a wing man. I'm progressing with some areas of my life which were neglected.

Your words about sending her ego sky rocketing are exactly pertinent. You guys are amazing. Some day I hope to see so quickly & clearly. ty
 

feelingloved

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I was thinking about the reasons for wanting someone back.

1) It may be that I wish to regain the respect I once had. I also would like to repossess the attraction I used to have in her eyes.
This is independent of whether the person deserves me, or whether I would decide to be with her.
Its a matter of wanting to be respected and attracted in her eyes, they way I used to be. I do not see this as an unworthy goal.
A different and distinctly seperate goal to "get back in a relationship with her" may be a less intelligent aim, I conceed.

2) I think it is also worth while to put myself in a position where I could get her back if I wanted,
in the event that in a few years she evolves into the mature and quality person that I would be interested in,
making that option easily available.

I went into the relationship not expecting it to last, knowing she was not mature and had no relationship skills.
Now that what has happened, I think it is wrong-thinking to not look forward to the possibility of reunion in 5 years or less.

Would it make more sense to date a mature 25 year old in 5 years from now, or
the now mature 25 year old I dated when she was a less mature 20?

What I have concluded/learned is that it never produces good fruit to treat a woman with more respect than she has for herself.
Doing so will make her act in ways that she (perhaps unconsciously) aims to lower your respect level for her, to that which she feels she deserves.
Treating her well when she does not deserve it, or making non-issues out of her issues, sets you up for more issues and less good behaviour. Does that make sense / would you agree?

I think it is difficult to release emotionally. There are some pets that took years to get over the loss of.
It seems the loss of a person in my life would be the same.
Even if it is simply the fact that the person has changed from who they used to be to someone you don't recognize.
 

feelingloved

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Here is something that has helped.

http://www.anewlife.org/html/sound_library.html

The sound files, though rough in audio, are solid in healing.
Let it sink in.

It may not be something to use as PUA.
But when I needed something to stop the bleeding when I hit the wall, this sure did help.
 

feelingloved

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I read this guy's thread on GF's male friends

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128180

This was the warning sign for me. I found out about the new friend after she had already been golfing with him a few times.
They were spending considerable time together.

When I brought up the inapropriateness of it, she FIRED back that she is not going to stop hanging with her friends.

Fast forward to 2 weeks later, when I found them in bed together, and I asked who is this! She said "that is my friend X."

Friend! I was so clueless that it took me a week to figure out that they had actually even slept together. I kind of assumed that they had just fallen asleep in her bed watching a movie.

Dumb dumb dumb. Damit.

So this is what I would say. A girl that is interested in you as LTR will not make power moves.

If she does, fight it immediately or walk out immediately. I think its basically so much over at that point, that you are reading last months news.

Maybe there was something I could have done differently, or do differently now. But I am not aware of it.
 

STR8UP

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feelingloved said:
1) It may be that I wish to regain the respect I once had. I also would like to repossess the attraction I used to have in her eyes.
So you want to waste a bunch of energy trying to repair your bruised ego? Not very smart.

Watch the movie Swingers. Every guy should own the DVD and watch it every six months.

There's a great quote in that movie that goes something like "You can't do anything to make her want you. You can only do things to make her NOT want you". So true.
 

feelingloved

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my friends were criticizing me for letting the girl off the hook easy. After I got over the initial shock & asking her what was going on (days), I have pulled back and not returned calls. I never lost my cool, or criticized, because I thought it would not be heard, and would only justify her actions in her mind. I'm going to leave it with as little closure as possible. Its hard none the less.

Today I am realizing or facing some of the things which I did not like about her behaviors and attitudes. I think it is harder to accept being mistreated by someone who didn't deserve you. It would be easier to accept if I felt the girl was "way out of my league". IE all she really has is look, money, and taste, No real skills and a ton of issues.

The healer part of me is attracted to women with issues. Its something I will need to watch for. IE I am comfortable when a woman is unhappy, because it gives me a "role". I need to be comfortable and focus on with bringing a womans mood up, and this is a skill I have not mastered.

I think I have feared, repeatedly, that when I take a girl with low self esteem and raise it and heal her physically as well as emotionally, she will leave me and have no dependence on me. I need to take on a new role, of making her smile all the time, and leaving her insecurities alone... perhaps even teasing her about them.
 

##17

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Listen, I can relate to what you're going through, but there is a part of me that is thinking that you are ENJOYING this pain that you are going through. You're kind of wallowing in this. I mean, you've already gotten some really good advice already from joekerr, STR8T UP and others here, but it sounds that you're not taking it.

And if you're not wallowing, this is my take:

(1) She's 20. Twenty. TWENTY. You know how immature girls (and guys) are at that age? Specifically, as far as the whole commitment issue, what STR8T UP said already (I don't really think its that either). Also, if you DID let her know you loved her to her satisfaction, she probably would have broken up with you because 'she needs space' and she 'wants to be young and have fun'. See where I'm going with this? She probably doesn't know what she really wants, and whatever it is, it changes year-to-year.

(2) There are plenty of other women out there just as good as this one I'm sure. And if you're feeling guilty about not being a good boyfriend for her, remeber that she was the one who ended it. It's her loss. If she wanted to be with you, she would. So dont feel guilty about finding someone else yourself.

(3) You cant fix this situation with this girl. You cant fix it. If you try to win her back after she dumped you for someone else, you're just going to look more and more like a chump. If you keep using the tactic of letting her know about your dates (real or fake), eventually she is going to see that you're just trying to get a reaction out of her, and you're going to look stupid.

(4) Start lifting weights. I'm serious about this because squats, deadlifts, and other compound lifts with heavy weights will pump testosterone into your system. It will help your mood, drive, everything.

Hope this all helps....
 

feelingloved

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Yes it does help.

I can see how it might appear that I am enjoying wallowing.
It appears that way, but it is not.

What I am getting out of it is that :
I really do enjoy learning what you all would do, or would have done, in the scenarios I am going through. When you make a mistake it feels a lot better to understand what the hell went wrong, and what could have been done differently. I see it like reviewing sports films, for improvement. As humiliating as it may, you are helping me figure out what happened. The main thing is you all are *correcting* my *thinking*. And I am indebted to you for that. It takes a unique man to spend time out of his day to help a stranger with some well thought out words of advice. You are kings in my story.

I am figuring out what has happened.
I am being reflective, so I and others can learn; some posters did ask for specifics.
I am being attentive to what is going on in my mind, emotions, and body - so I can analyze it as opposed to blindly reacting and being carried away by it.
I am in need of confirmation, of taking the steps I know I should take, but which are still difficult; thus talking about the challenge.
I am writing my thoughts out, so I can get them out of my head, and not be so paralyzed by them; like the process of writing a letter then burning it.
I am using the forum to express my feelings, rather than contacting her as is the wuss-incentive reaction to do.
I am turning to the forum, when I have run out of friends to discuss with.
It keeps that barren feeling away, temporarily. It keeps my mind off of what she is doing at this very moment. It gives me a different and more useful focus, for my thoughts and life direction.

#1 you are probably right that there was low probability of eventual good outcome, at this age. I did the best I could manage, which of course was not perfect. But I can still take satisfaction in that.

#2 I guess I do have some guilt, for having let myself down. Yes there are other better women I could find right now. My mind is not in the right head-space at the moment to jump into that. I am getting there, but there is a maximum pace to that transition. I am still coming to grips with the reality of what-is, and what-was. I'm still in shock, and baffled, and getting past the hope that it could be different than it is. At any other point in the past I should have seen it coming, and any point in future I will look back and see how obvious it was to foresee.

#3 This is a good point, by extreme. Letting her know about dates would be transparent, and I would lose that battle. It could not be done in an unnatural setting. And perhaps better done not at all.

I kind of like to think that there could be something worth looking forward to in a couple years. I can see how oneitis that is. I see it. I know I should not talk to her. I have not done that. I have ignored her last 3 messages, and she has not called for 5 days. The part of me that wants to NOT to talk to her is getting larger, which is good. There is still a part of me that wants here to call, even if I don't pick up. I need to get to the point where I don't care that she isn't calling. hopefully in time.
 
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feelingloved

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Ya I've probably put on 10 lbs of muscle

and lost 3 lbs of fat in the past 1.5 months. Its looking good.
And I will keep at it. I'm doing the right things, I think.
My testosterone is quite high during all this. And thats a good and bad thing.
 

feelingloved

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Thank you Max Power

Well today is another painful day. One mind technique I have been using to get through things is a concept, for name sake, lets call the "treasure box". I've pieced it together from a number of ideas. Here is how to use it.

Notice what feelings & emotions you have at the moment.
Notice what physically you are feeling in different areas; shoulders ,forehead, throat, lungs, joints, lips, hands.

Now consider, if you will, that your body and spirit are treasure boxes. If you have rocks in your treasure box, there is no room for treasure. So dump it. Get rid of the rocks. Throw them out. Shake those feelings off. Let them go. Release what you are feeling in your body. Let your breathing go uninhibited. If you find you are holding tension or holding your breath, relax and just BE. Give the tension away. You don't need it.

If you have thoughts you want to get rid of you can imagine putting them in a bubble and sending them up and off to God to take care of.

If you have feelings you want to get rid of, imagine them just sliding out of you, off of you, drifting out, perhaps falling ground-ward or being carried away by the wind, and dissipating.

You may have to repeatedly, continually do this, to shake what you don't need out of your treasure boxes.

While you are emptying your treasure boxes, allow God to fill your mind and emotions and body with love, gifts, and treasures. Accept that it is readily there, just waiting. All you have to do is let go of what you are currently holding, and ACCEPT the love, treasures, gifts, and miracles into your body, life, and future. Do not pick what you want, just accept. Do not hold on to any of the gifts. Release them immediately.

Let them flow through you. Know that there is a never ending supply of them. Imagine you are a cup, and Divinity is pouring these treasures upon you, and your cup is continually overflowing, flowing into you and out of you into the world. These treasures are feelings & healings in your body. And they experiences and physical circumstances. The only emotion you need is the feeling of God's love, and the gratitude you have for that. Gratitude is a large part of the process; the more grateful you are in the process, the easier it is to accept the gifts, and the more specifically tuned they are, with greater magnitude, and more and more rapidly they flow.

God knows what it wants for you. It knows what it wants you to be. And if you accept the gifts, in the way they are offered, without trying to hold onto them, without trying to choose what you want,
you will find that Divinity is giving to you and making you what you wanted all along. Simply be grateful, and allow, and let divinity do the work. You can visualize and maintain always in the back of your mind a golden-never-ending flow of love descending upon you and flowing through you. As you accept this, without blocking the flow, look for and expect all kinds of gifts and treasures for you to experience to to rise up and descend down around you. You can imagine a blue waterfall, constantly pouring through you, releasing and washing away tension, impurities, and unwanted feelings.

Here is an application of this, when you are doing pushups or other exercise. Do not let anger motivate you, do not let arrogance motivate you, do not let a sense of self worth push you forward, do not let an insecurity drive you, do not focus on the difficulty of the exercise. Abandon pride. Release the sense of the physical stress. Empty the treasure box of any emotions, and any sense of your aim/goal for the exercise.

Receive in your mind the number of reps, and the manner in which to do them, as Divine instructions. See the process as an acceptance of gifts God wants to give to you. God wants to give you the gift of a beautiful body, like the other glorious creatures/animals on the planet. God wants to move you gently through the process of developing discipline and other beautiful characteristics.

Meet any challenge in the process of the exercise, with extreme gratefulness for the gift which God is giving in the end. Do the exercise as though they are instructions from a loving God, and be aware of your thankfulness for the loving gift of the end product. A good body brings goodness into your life. God wants this for you. Its not about being better, or proving. Its about accepting treasures.

You can use the same process in other areas. I used it in a bar last night. I didn't approach any girls. I simply stood around and was grateful, and being aware, with no expected outcome; accepting what ever gifts God wanted to drop into my being. I had many girls going out of their way to talk to me and touch me, and comment on my clothes, and stance, and joke around with me. I was simply there, allowing it to happen. No I was not a DJ, and didn't get any numbers or anything. I was just enjoying what was happening, and letting it go, just as readily, in order to make room to accept the next thing.

Now here is a way to achieve peace. I came to it because of the intense storms during the weeks/days of the breakup. God does not want hurt for us. And he/she is very deeply sorry for what we have gone through. There is tremendous regret there. I break down as I write this. But any ways, what has happened was not what was intended for us.

I see the rain now, as Divinity's tears and remorse over, what has befallen God's loved children, including you. I see the rain, and the clouds as an individual message of sorrow, and love, apology and promise to make amends to me. I accept the message, and acknowledge God's grief. I see the flash of anger in the lightning, and the depth and flavor of God's emotion in the rain. I know God wants to pour his treasures upon me, now.

And in the fair weather I am reminded of the beauty of the gifts he wants for us, ... the purity and sincerity of his promise. Acknowledge it. Accept it. Give thank-you's in return.

I always look at the sky now and see God's love for us, and how he is working to help us if we let it. Accept His apology and gifts.

If you are wondering what to do in any particular situation, here is what I look for. I notice any particular wild animal that crosses my path, and what it is doing. I think of the human-qualities of that animal, which I would normally assign to it. I notice how it interacts with my position and its environment and other creatures and objects. I ponder how this could possibly be insight to my own dilemma, or a guide for correct action. I run it over in my mind, and see how my thoughts/subconscious interprets it.

David D has some good inner game NLP stuff. One technique is the ideal me. You imagine the ideal you; the one God wants you to become, if you accept instructions, treasures and gifts. Make it big and detailed in your mind. Shoot it up into the sky, explode it into a billion billion ideal yous. They descend upon every area of the world, overlapping everything. They fill the past, present, and future. I imagine them as angels, working to turn things in my favor. I see them behind me and in front of me guiding me and helping. I see them merging with me and improving my actions, thoughts and feelings. Now with every step, imagine, one close to you shoots up and explodes into a billion more, falling down around everything. Its a continual cycle, of angels everywhere, just as the gifts awaiting you and me are a continuous continuum of love.

If you have any other visualizations let me know. If you know of any good audio programs along these lines, also I would like to find out where to obtain them and/or share them.
 
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feelingloved

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I think another thing to look for

to determine if you are on the right path is that,
a girl who has an appropriate interest level in LTR tries to impress you. If a female is doing things to impress you, and also offering up some of her issues for you to comment on, th relationship is in a good direction.

If she is not trying to impress you, and not acknowledging her issues, you need to point those facts out. I firmly believe that now. I firmly believe that that will improve things, and maintain an attraction/connection with her.
 

WestCoaster

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Great post Dash

Dash Riprock said:
Hey Guy,

We've ALL been there. Let me tell you tell a quick version of my story:

I'm also a good looking guy (I usually get 8's and 9's on WhosHot, rating sites, etc.), own my own business, have an outgoing personality, funny/find a lot of humor in life, etc. So every girl should be wild for me, right? Wrong.

About 5 years ago I met this girl 12 years younger. She was infatuated with me. She also looked like a Playboy centerfold; I mean a solid 9.5/10. I was playing it cool with her, teasing her a lot, using humor, etc., all stuff that came natural—really didn’t care all that much. Then, what started out as a fling, became more (I really started caring about her) so I started "acting" differently. I started telling her how I felt about her, I would call her all the time, I would try to monopolize her time, I would work out right next to her at the gym we both belonged to; helping her with every set she did. I totally smothered her and would get wild when other guys showed interest in her.

You get the picture.

This went on for 3-4 mos. (Looking back, I'm shocked she hung in there THAT long).

Then, I noticed she was acting "funny." The sex stopped, I would get her VM a lot. We began to squabble more. I remember one time she went skiing with her friends. I tried calling her at 9, 9:30, 10:30, 11, 11:30 PM--and no answer. She called the next evening after work saying they hit a snow storm and it took them longer to get home. I went ballistic and said something like, "Look, (name) if you REALLY care about someone you call them no matter what!" And I hung up.

Two days later we broke up and I was F-ing DEVASTATED. I went to a psychologist, I bought every (AFC-type) relationship book I could find (a lot of John Gray stuff), and then depression set in (I'm laughing my arse off right now as I type this but I'm 100% serious on all this stuff).

I never called her or had contact with her again, but the feelings stuck SOLID for at least 6 months after the breakup, if not more.

Looking back, I was an absolute 110% US Grade AA King AFC.

Then, after Googling some sites on how to get over a breakup (what a f-ing WUSS I was—LOL), I found a site called AskMen.com and started reading stuff from Doc Love, Dave DeAngelo, Swinggcat, and also found SoSuave.com.

Every time I would read an article I would cringe because of how WRONG I was playing things. It was PAINFUL to read. BUT, I also became a DJ-sponge soaking up as much info as I could.

I swore I would NEVER, EVER, let a woman do that to me again.

And I haven't.

It took maybe 3-4 months to really learn the DJ basics and another year or so to get good. I (still) cherry pick the best of the best from the best and use my own experiences—this is my SYSTEM—and it WORKS.

Fast forward 4 years later to July 2007: I am a Frocking Alpha Male, DJ who comes here because he wants to get even better. I have not had a chick dump me since that fateful day way back in March of 2003. I have dated mega-hot chicks from Ecuador, Mexico, Tanzania, US, and now Croatia, been in LTR’s, call all the shots, and have chicks eating out my hand—all because I took charge, endured the painful changes I needed to make, and improved myself.

I know this all sounds really ****y (maybe even arrogant), but it’s true.

Because of that single negative event, I am a 100% changed man all for the better. I cannot thank that dumb, silicone-pumped, biaatch enough for dumping my sorry arse because I would still be a King AFC had she not.

Now, I have so much confidence in my game and myself, I try to help as many people and friends as possible with their dating dilemmas—but only if they WANT me to. Most still don't get it, some do, and some I turned into future DJs.

Use this event, my man, as a stepping stone to bigger and better things. That single event changed my life forever because now I'm the Alpha Male/DJ that hid in AFC skin for all those years.

Email me in my SoSuave.com mailbox if I can be of more help to you.

Good luck.

Dash
Really a great story Dash, life affirming. We all have that "ahh ha" moment -- I think Rollo T. described one which changed his life. It almost always revolves around a woman.

I saw the light in my late 30's (better late than never) thanks to this website. I was in grad school, dating a bit and then I got freaking oneitis with a gorgeous woman. She played me like a fiddle while she was on a "break" from her boyfriend. Man was I AFC. I, too, am laughing at it now, though it's painful to look back on it. A friend of mine told me to chill after he received an f-bomb filled angry e-mail from me trashing the woman. He found sosuave.com on the internet and sent it to me.

Despite the simplicity of the website, it seemed revolutionary, so in contrast to how I was living my life after years and years of AFCness. I read the DJ Bible, the articles (the ones by Allen Thompson really spoke to me), and the message board. I'd encourage newbies to read the DJ Bible and articles before going on the message board to ask for help. I'm not a perfect DJ, far from it, I'm a work in progress -- but soooooo much better than I was in my AFC days.

Being played by women, being bummed for too long about breakups, and putting too much emotional energy into women is really damaging to men. It takes them off more important things like career, fitness, establishing meaningful friendships, etc. AFCness (as proven here) has caused many a murder and many a suicide. It's more damaging than the pop-psyche public is telling you.

So I'm with Dash on this one, read this site and move forward.
 

feelingloved

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Back when I was going through divorce I was reading the Divorce Busting books by Michael Weiner.
Here is a link to marriage builder's radio. I suppose they are simlar. http://marriagebuilders.com/ca/to.cgi?l=rad

Now that I have seen the wisdom of of the PUAs, I wonder if the other stuff is just useless AFC strategies. Anyone found good "relationship" advice, outside of the PUA forum here?
 

Phyzzle

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Anyone found good "relationship" advice, outside of the PUA forum here?
Actually, there are a hundred of these places, mainly offshoots of fastseduction.com and the alt.seduction.fast newsgroup. I think I've seen people here recommend pimpin101, or something? Anyways, they're almost always focused on go to nightclub -> get laid. I'm too old for that, so I stick here, the most well-rounded place. Don't go hog wild reading all that stuff. Just get the basics, say, from here, and start being more sociable.

For long term relationships (LTR's) check out every Doc Love archive you can find, like on askmen, then look up Dennis Nedder. Funny stuff. Plus, there are some "cream of the crop" articles from pickup artists on bristollair.com
 

jophil28

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Hey FL, Maybe I am missing something here - I have not read every word in this thread,but I am wondering if you have a clear understanding yet of WHY she lost interest and moved on to someone else. Usually the reasons are tied up in the realization that theguy "changed" from being a man of excitement and mystery to a predictable, obedient, wuss, all too eager to PLEASE her.
(Puts her up on a pedestal and devotes himself to pleasing her )
What have you learned so far. Did you 'tolerate' early bad behavior by her in trying to be "understanding " ??
Did you avoid being demanding and controlling ? In other words, did she do whaever the f**k she felt like ,and you bit your tongue and just put up with it. . Was your behavior congruent with your words ?

Just wondering.
 

feelingloved

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Yes.

Thank you Phyzzle. I will definitely go down that path of reading. I am so grateful for the suggestions.

Jophil28, it is my honor that you read and replied.

Yes I went through the change you depict. I did not do much to "please" her, and perhaps that was part of why we lost connection. I "changed" from being a man of excitement and mystery to a predictable, and content/comfortable man.

I did not put her on a pedestal or become a slave to her needs, but I did not show appreciation or romance to her either.
I did not see the middle ground.

I did 'tolerate' her early bad behavior by being understanding . I did not know what else to do. I just pulled back. I did not know what else to do other than pull back or lean towards me leaving. I did not see a middle ground. Now I see it was that I needed to tell her what I was impressed by with her, and not impressed by with her. I needed to be a mirror, of that kind.

I did avoid being controlling and demanding. I but I was not controlling and demanding enough. I left too much emptiness there. I put up with too much stuff, in being understanding of her issues, thinking she would grow out of them.

I could list 100 things that could be the main cause of her no longer seeing me as the prize. Some I have immediate control over, some I have long term control over, some are situational and beyond control.

I am weary of feeling ill over this. I feel that even finding another girl right now that was better than her, would not change how I feel. Even dating a new girl, and having her go through that infatuation stage, I would feel the same.
Even having my x calling me and wanting me back, if that happened, I can see that I would still feel like damaged goods.

So I am at the point where I am hardly interested in females. I admit, I would like to get back together with my x, as useless as she is, and have a fantastic relationship. I see no immediate way for that to happen. I try to visualize it, but do not see a path, other than this:

I need to work on me.
I need to be more funny, more fun, less serious, less predictable.
I need to start trading/investing, and have more money.
I need to get out of debt, currently about $5k.
I need to take better care of my appearance, and maximize what fortune I have in those areas.
I need to get more social and build an interesting social life.
I need to get about $6k to get my 1979 trans am on the road.
I need to study more about LTR, from the links of Phyzzle.

Then I will feel attractive again. Then I can visualize and see her wanting me back and having a great loving relationship. Or perhaps it will be with another girl.

I will list some of the things that went wrong, for you.
 

feelingloved

Don Juan
Joined
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The things that makes me feel dispair is

that 15 years ago I went through a similar situation with a similar girl. And here it is 15 years later, after 15 years of relationship knowledge, and acting as best I can to be non-wussy & interesting, and having worked on my personality and achieved a good career, and having my own place....

I still could not keep the girl for much longer than a year. Its like in my mind, "what more do I have to do"? So I see my action plan above, and all the other hoops I have to jump through.

I'm feeling down about it. So with some kind of apathy I am going through the motions of following my plan above. I see myself as healer. I am wounded, and I need to find healing for myself.
 

blueguy

Master Don Juan
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You cannot control other people. The best you can do is control yourself. So stop worrying about it. Whether you have a relationship or not is definitely not the measure of a man. That last post bothers me in that you think you're defined by your lack of ability to keep a couple of women from the past. You think that the goal in life is to have as long of a relationship as possible. IT'S NOT TRUE.

feelingloved said:
"what more do I have to do"?
Stop worrying so damn much about what you have to do to maintain a relationship, and start doing what you want to do.
 
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