My beef with martial arts

[twentee]

so what?

u will never have to fight a trained man FOR REAL unless you are the a-hole who NEEDS his ass kicked. After a certain point, you really should quit sparring much with trained men, and just work with the untrained a lot. sometimes the stuff that they do will catch you off guard, but mostly, you will become REALLY aware of how helpless that they really are, how unlikely they are to be able to hurt you (unless they have a weapon) and that is reallly great for your confidence, and for your ability to stop an attack without having to gouge out eyes, etc.

Actually, other than on rare occassions, real fights, with untrained men, give you PLENTY of time, they are SO slow and uncoodinated and unaware of 90+ % of offenses and defenses. Sheesh.

the claim about federal prison is Bull****, ALL of it. nobody gets strip searched in front of anyone but ONE guard. wtf about a fight makes it a FEDERAL case, hmm? it would have to be on Federal land or fighting with a Federal employee.

you should not be sparrimg without 2-3 months of serious training under your belt, 4 hours or so per week, small classes, 4 people or less. until you have 6 montsh of training (ie, red belt), you should not be sparring with anyone whom is not a LOT better than you, so that they are in control of what is going on. then YOU should be sparring, some of the time, with yellow belts, so that YOU are the one who is holding back and being careful.

After you've had a fair amount of training, no untrained man is going to be able to do a thing against you, much less "pummel" you. HOW pray tell, are you going to GET ANYBODY to LET you use full power stuff at their nuts or their eyes, dumbass?

 

[jkdwarrior]

I believe the path of martial arts is ultimately self-discovery, each practitioner has the right to take what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is specifically your own. This Is Jeet Kune Do, but Bruce said to never be set on patterns and to keep evolving and changing and adapt to the ever changing times. Therefore,You need to know how to fight standing up, in the ground, with weapons and mass attack. -E"]http://http://youtu.be/HF8PD50zP-E[/URL]

 

[twentee]

the mass attack thing better be done witha gun. It's quite legal to use a gun vs more than one (unarmed) attackr, or against a guy who has a knife or club,or who clearly is much stronger/larger than you. the legal priniple is called 'disparity of force. use hand to hand only when you dont have time to bring the gun into play. just the sight fo your (ready) gun suffices, most of the time, without a shot ever being fired.I had the gun partof it down by age 18, I learned karate 2 yearslater, to be able to give guys a BREAK, but not let them get off scott free after they go over the line. there's also such a thing as using the gun to make them lean and spread on a wall, then use a drop kick to nuts, then front snapkick(s) to lower spine until you hear/feel that distinctive crunching sound. then see how many people he can attack from the wheelchair that he BELONGS in.

 

[sageproduct]

Bradd, bible_belt, anyone else who has years and years of experience...

Question for you guys. If you were to go back in time to when you first matured physically and had 10 years to train yourself in practical self-defense, which arts/systems would you choose, and in what order would you train them in? Would you master Krav Maga and then pick up moves from other arts? Would you train extensively in Jeet Kune Do, then spend some time learning how to disarm an armed attacker?

 

[twentee]

I wouldn't devote anythng like 10 yeaars to it. In 10 months, in KOREA, I learned plenty. I might devote another year, to becoming a better grappler, and be more ambidextrous, but that's all. Here in the land of the gun, with 10% of the male population being complete and utter a holes, it makes far more sense to work on speed of concealed draw, repeat hits, multiple targets.

 

[Bible_Belt]

which arts/systems would you choose?

The one which had a trainer near me who had current students who were winning competitions. The people within the school are much more important than the words on the sign outside.

A lot of it depends on where you live and whatever martial art is most popular in your area. mma and submission grappling are the two most widepread combat sports right now in the US. Most grapplers are training Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu; ideally as an addition to a base in collegiate wrestling. www.nagafighter.com is the site of the most popular grappling tourney right now. Boxing training can be world-class in certain cities, but it doesn't really exist any more in most small towns due to a decline in popularity.

Grappling and striking are the two things you want to learn. You can divide all fight training along those lines. It's fine to be a specialist in one or the other, but don't be completely ignorant of either.

 

[Crazystarf]

you really shouldnt be sparring harder than 75%, and with the safety gear you should not be going home with concussions and broken noses, the problem is that many people dont know the difference between fighting and sparring


also i would recommend jiu jitsu over aikido any day, here is an old clip of a skater using very basic jiu jitsu to take down and subdue a guy trying to punch him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY45KuwkVYM

That bully was rather stupid to mess with a kid with a weapon in the first place; the skater showed a ton of mercy by taking him down instead of whacking him in the head with the skateboard, which would have gotten the bully seriously injured.

All in favor of jiu-jitsu?

 

[goundra]

yes, but he WON the criminal case, and he's apoor ****,. so he'll never pay anythng. also, witnesses established that the 4 attackers STOPPED at the site of his gun, and he shot them anyway, pursuing one and shooting him AGAIN as he laid there, wounded. also, he was stupid enough to not kill them all, and to self surrender, instead of just leaving the state within hours of the shooting. if' he'd shot them 2x each,with REAL loads all in less than 2 seconds, instead of silly assed lrn, lead round nose ammo from a .38 snub, they would not have been ABLE to sue (or testify) youaint much of a lawyer, obviously.

 

[foreverAFC]

That bully was rather stupid to mess with a kid with a weapon in the first place; the skater showed a ton of mercy by taking him down instead of whacking him in the head with the skateboard, which would have gotten the bully seriously injured.

All in favor of jiu-jitsu?

jiu jitsu is great for one on one, but not as useful if there are more people involved. this is why despite my love of the grappling arts i believe that a simple striking art like regular boxing or muay thai are great for self defense as well. boxing for example may be limited in its techniques and has many restrictions but thats what makes it great for real self defense, it teaches you how to deal with other people trying to hit you and makes you able to move and react fast. one of the most common ways people in real life will try to attack you is with a punch, why not start there.

the thug who was taken down by the skater could have just as easily been dropped by a good jab or a solid right hand.

 

[goundra]

why not? well, there's the BAD idea of just ASSUMING that it;s ok to LET people hit you, which is what boxing does! It teaches you to not fully clench your hand, it teaches you to just IGNORE the lower body, HORRIBLE weakness! It teaches you to not grab, or worry about being grabbed, all sorts of VERY stupid shyte

 

[foreverAFC]

why not? well, there's the BAD idea of just ASSUMING that it;s ok to LET people hit you, which is what boxing does! It teaches you to not fully clench your hand, it teaches you to just IGNORE the lower body, HORRIBLE weakness! It teaches you to not grab, or worry about being grabbed, all sorts of VERY stupid shyte

i think you have some misconceptions about the sweet science, they teach you how to not get hit, they have many defensive and evasive techniques that are great for simple self defense. they dont fully clench the hand because it allows them to parry incoming punches and counter attack. in real life situations you need something quick and simple, boxing provides this.

boxing is also widely found, doesnt require as much flexibility as other martial arts, easy to pick up and use, and teaches the fundamental principles of many martial arts.

 

[LiveFreeX]

Martial Arts does not equal MMA. I have a bit of a pet peeve about this one. As a teacher, I refuse to teach any students who think they are going to use it to go kick some ass at the local 'anywhere'.

Yes, it should give you confidence, the confidence comes from knowing that you have the power to defend yourself should you need to. You should NOT be out picking fights with others or training for 'sport matches'. As far as I'm concerned, the MMA is for the same people who think the WWF is cool. Take-downs, ground fighting, locks, punching, kicking.... all nonsense. 2lbs of pressure breaks a bone, once a bone is broken your attacker is very likely, no longer a threat to you or anyone.

Martial Arts are no different from carrying a concealed weapon, the only time you should need to use it is during a life and death situation. If you are smart, no one will ever know that you have any. I always tell my students to announce to as many people as possible that they are huge wimps. A guy I work with is a Kung Fu master but he is the most chilled out guy you'd ever meet. I have 8 different martial arts and enjoy training in all of them. Neither of us like the MMA. There is no technical advantage to have big muscles or being an overly aggressive meat head. My wife who is a petite 5'3 could kill most of the people on this forum without blinking. She has trained in Kung Fu and Tai Chi since she was a little girl, you would never know it. MMA is not martial arts, its Hollywood and movie magic. The op is correct, bones break and shatter in the span of a few seconds and REAL fights have and cause life changing consequences. A fight with someone who is trained should last about 3 seconds, enough time for you to physically disable an attacker and leave, anything else is strictly Hollywood.

I used to get picked on in Highschool and College, I was always nervous when people threatened me and what not. After learning martial arts in various disciplines, I no longer have any 'fear' of anyone BUT I'm much more aware of the consequences of entering into a potentially aggressive situation. No one is going to place their hands on me, my wife or my family without them losing an arm. That said, I will also be the first one to leave a potentially aggressive situation. Choosing to use a technique should have the same ramifications as pulling a handgun and pulling the trigger, you must weigh whether its worth the cost or not. Unless the situation is life threatening then the best option is to walk away. Sitting down to a pizza dinner with friends and the wife is much nicer than sitting in some hospital in a cast (I have been there). Once you have a girlfriend/wife, you should find that you don't have much to prove to anyone. The best thing to do is simply walk away, go home and blow your load all over your wife's face. More likely than not, the aggressor is going home to nothing or will get himself into trouble some other way.

MMA-tards are all guys with small ****s or something to prove... what sick individual has a true thirst for blood? REAL martial arts people don't watch MMA. I train people for self defense in rape/robbery situations. There really isn't a need to use it beyond that. I equate an MMA fighter to a gun nut.

We learn to fight so that we never have to.

 

[Bible_Belt]

As a teacher, I refuse to teach any students who think they are going to use it to go kick some ass at the local 'anywhere'.

That's because you're a fraud who can't fight. If the bullsh!tsu you were teaching actually worked in a real fight, someone would be doing it to win fights for money. I think it's great that you are teaching dancing or whatever it is, but is dangerous to let your students think any of that is useful in an actual fight.

There was a one night, $20k winner take all kickboxing tournament in vegas last month. One of my "mma retard" friends won it. He had never kickboxed in his life, but fighting is larger than a few different rules. Either you can do it or you can't. If you can't, it's a lot easier to just make excuses about the rules and act like you are better than real fighters who are actually competing.

 

[foreverAFC]

Martial Arts does not equal MMA. I have a bit of a pet peeve about this one. As a teacher, I refuse to teach any students who think they are going to use it to go kick some ass at the local 'anywhere'.

Yes, it should give you confidence, the confidence comes from knowing that you have the power to defend yourself should you need to. You should NOT be out picking fights with others or training for 'sport matches'. As far as I'm concerned, the MMA is for the same people who think the WWF is cool. Take-downs, ground fighting, locks, punching, kicking.... all nonsense. 2lbs of pressure breaks a bone, once a bone is broken your attacker is very likely, no longer a threat to you or anyone.

Martial Arts are no different from carrying a concealed weapon, the only time you should need to use it is during a life and death situation. If you are smart, no one will ever know that you have any. I always tell my students to announce to as many people as possible that they are huge wimps. A guy I work with is a Kung Fu master but he is the most chilled out guy you'd ever meet. I have 8 different martial arts and enjoy training in all of them. Neither of us like the MMA. There is no technical advantage to have big muscles or being an overly aggressive meat head. My wife who is a petite 5'3 could kill most of the people on this forum without blinking. She has trained in Kung Fu and Tai Chi since she was a little girl, you would never know it. MMA is not martial arts, its Hollywood and movie magic. The op is correct, bones break and shatter in the span of a few seconds and REAL fights have and cause life changing consequences. A fight with someone who is trained should last about 3 seconds, enough time for you to physically disable an attacker and leave, anything else is strictly Hollywood.

I used to get picked on in Highschool and College, I was always nervous when people threatened me and what not. After learning martial arts in various disciplines, I no longer have any 'fear' of anyone BUT I'm much more aware of the consequences of entering into a potentially aggressive situation. No one is going to place their hands on me, my wife or my family without them losing an arm. That said, I will also be the first one to leave a potentially aggressive situation. Choosing to use a technique should have the same ramifications as pulling a handgun and pulling the trigger, you must weigh whether its worth the cost or not. Unless the situation is life threatening then the best option is to walk away. Sitting down to a pizza dinner with friends and the wife is much nicer than sitting in some hospital in a cast (I have been there). Once you have a girlfriend/wife, you should find that you don't have much to prove to anyone. The best thing to do is simply walk away, go home and blow your load all over your wife's face. More likely than not, the aggressor is going home to nothing or will get himself into trouble some other way.

MMA-tards are all guys with small ****s or something to prove... what sick individual has a true thirst for blood? REAL martial arts people don't watch MMA. I train people for self defense in rape/robbery situations. There really isn't a need to use it beyond that. I equate an MMA fighter to a gun nut.

We learn to fight so that we never have to.

just wondering, but how many bones of other people have you actually shattered ?

 

[twentee]

NO bone breaks THAT easily, and some that break easily are not "stoppers", like nose cartilage. most of the easily broken bones are NOT that easy to access, either. Kicking CAN be done, but it takes a LOT of practice, both to attain enough skill, and to RETAIN that ability, under REAL pressure of attack. fvck you and your "gun nut" generalities, by the way.

 

[Bokanovsky]

If you're an American and concerned about self-defense, get a concealed carry license and buy yourself a pistol. No amount of martial arts training will ever be as effective as a .45.

 

[LiveFreeX]

There was a one night, $20k winner take all kickboxing tournament in vegas last month. One of my "mma retard" friends won it. He had never kickboxed in his life, but fighting is larger than a few different rules. Either you can do it or you can't. If you can't, it's a lot easier to just make excuses about the rules and act like you are better than real fighters who are actually competing.
_

'fighting' lol funny ... you can't recover from an eye gouge or a smashed kneecap. I love that term 'real fighters', yeah sure. In a REAL fight, there are NO RULES. A kickboxing tournament is nothing more than a competition/sport/show put on for other wannabes. You know what you are walking into and out of. Certain things are allowed, others aren't. How the hell is that a REAL fight? Put them on the street, broken glass and concrete to fall on, sharp objects and things that will puncture... rocks, loose bricks, let them fight until one is dead or disabled. Let one punch or hit the other on any place on the body before the fight even starts. For instance a guy punching you in the side of the head or pulling a knife on you to take your stuff. That is a real fight and that is likely what will really happen to you if you need to defend yourself in a real situation. You aren't going to be able to tap out and have a rapist magically release you. My mother was once grabbed from behind in an elevator, she would be dead now if the elevator hadn't opened up to a group of people on the next floor. No amount of tapping out would have helped her.

win fights 

In a fight, there are no winners.

THIS http://www.shaolin.org.cn/en/index.aspx

is real martial arts training.

The MMA is the equivalent to a bunch of NRA gun nuts getting together and having a paint ball competition and then patting each other on the back and calling themselves soldiers. Put one of your best guys up against a real life soldier in a life or death situation when they do not start off facing each other and we'll see how 'skilled' they are. The OPs original post was about learning martial arts not fighting in the octagon with the other testostojocks. The only thing MMA pumps out is roided up retards who have no respect for anyone.. MMA is crap. Say what you will but its not real and has no application in real life, its sport and those are not fighters, they are athletes.

Carrying a concealed weapon is only good if you get the chance to pull it out. What happens if it gets knocked away or you are grabbed from behind.

 

[Bible_Belt]

A kickboxing tournament is nothing more than a competition/sport/show put on for other wannabes.

Yeah, they "showed" $20,000 in cash, and the best fighter took it home. You can whine all you want that it wasn't a 'real' fight, but it sure was real money.

The more I think about it, the Olympics isn't exactly a "real" race, you know. On a sidewalk or something, I'm sure I'm as fast as that Usain Bolt guy.

 

[LiveFreeX]

whatever guy, MMA is a sport like boxing. Money for a fight does not equal a real fight and also usually doesn't result in broken ribs, broken fingers, group beatings, being kicked in the face and having your head stomped on by a group of people. Been there and just lucky to be alive today. No one offered me 20k to fight, I was pushed from behind, held down, kicked and stomped on by a group of teens.

Ever had a gun pulled on you? I have. What sort of MMA would you recommend for that? Martial Arts teaches you to respect others and not to get involved in those situations, MMA teaches you only 'fight'. There-in lies the problem with learning MMA, it doesn't teach common sense, just aggression.

Anyway OP just get a dog if you feel so insecure.

That's because you're a fraud who can't fight.

You're an idiot who can't think. By your definition of fight then yeah, you are right, I can't fight but for anyone who decides to test my skill at self defense, they won't be breathing at the end. MMA people go looking for trouble. Martial Arts teaches you to avoid trouble at all costs. I don't live in the West, there are no 'laws' to protect you out here. If you start a fight out here, unless you are highly trained, you may not be around to finish it. In China people swarm you, its one on one for about 2 minutes and people round these parts don't fight with fists, they fight with knives, broken bottles and bricks.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Ever had a gun pulled on you? I have. What sort of MMA would you recommend for that?

My mma trainer taught open-hand defense against weapons for the Army and had almost 20 years of time spent in martial arts before mma ever existed. The mma trainers who are the best typically come from a background in traditional martial arts, or else they haven't been involved in fighting for very long. The week after a fight, when a lot of us were busted up a little, we would train weapons and non-conventional stuff, like stick-fighting joint locks. We would also line up in formation every day, bow, and repeat Japanese words no one understood.

It's a myth that weapons and lack of rules change everything about fighting - it's still a fight. Whether I'm going to stab you with a knife or punch you with a boxing glove, I still have to have stance, balance, weight transfer, follow through and a lot of things that are common elements to all striking. If you already know how to fight, learning a few things about weapons will go a long way. But learning how fight without them has to come first, and the only way to tell who is good at that is sport fighting competitions like mma.