My beef with martial arts

[foreverAFC]

Is this how you prove that one martial art is better than another, you post a random youtube video of one really big guy chasing a smaller guy around a mat? Your argument is something a five year old would make. All you have to do is youtube "aikido vs jiu jiutsu" to see dozens of videos where the aikidoist takes out the jiujiutsu fighter. And if you're saying the jiu jiutsu guy had both aikido and jiu jiutsu training than even you're admitting that it wasn't jiujiutsu that beat aikido, rather it was a combination of both jiujiutsu and aikido that beat aikido.

You're like an idiotic 12 year old, arguing one martial art is better than another when anyone well versed in the martial arts can clearly see that it's all about the skill level of a practitioner and how well he knows his own art.



Because different arts are suited for different purposes. Do I really need to explain this to you? This is why police academies teach their police recruits aikido and submission and wrist/joint lock techniques as opposed to teaching them MMA.

And no taking people's eyes out and focusing on other vulnerable areas is not a myth. When martial arts originally developed it wasnt to roll around on the ground in some gay jiu jiutsu hold with your ass sticking out at the camera and win $50,000, it was to kill other people. And this was done by attacking the opponent's most vulnerable places, often the eyes and groin. Because no matter how large an opponent is, these places are always equally vulnerable.



haha yeah sure maybe i can get you to train me you little faggot

Am I really perpetuating a myth? I have cross-trained in the martial arts for almost 15 years, and have trained at a very high level, would you like to come fight me so I can show you just how easily I can strike your eyes or other vulnerable area if you came close to me? Do you really think this is hard to do? Because when you're properly trained this isn't hard to do at all.

When martial arts were about life and death, and not about pinning an opponent to the ground for sport as it is today, the eyes and other sensitive spots were struck and taken out as quickly as possible.

On the other hand maybe I should take the advice of you, someone who has the mentality of a five year old and seems to think that MMA is a perfect replicate depiction of a life and death struggle between trained fighters.

another insecure internet tough guy

 

[foreverAFC]

your screen name describes you and your self image perfectly, good choice

yeah but even i know better than to challenge people to fights on the internet lol, what a tough guy

 

[foreverAFC]

you're the little b*tch who claimed I can't fight even though you know nothing about me, all i did was offer you to come here so i can prove it to you

i never said such a thing, you just started feeling insecure about your training thats all, and thats why now you are challenging people over the internet to fights, go try mma if you want to fight so bad

 

[foreverAFC]

I feel no such insecurity. I've seen what I'm capable of, both on the training mat and in the street.

Again, if you'd like to see what a real life and death struggle is with someone who's had a lot of training feel free to come over anytime.

lol @ internet tough guy act, this is corny as ****

 

[foreverAFC]

stop being a c0ck sucking faggot.

roll around on the ground in some gay jiu jiutsu hold with your ass sticking out

train me you little faggot

I feel no such insecurity.

im starting to see where you animosity is coming from

 

[foreverAFC]

wow look how upset this guy is after realizing all those fancy moves he saw in Above the Law and Under Siege are all hollywood fantasy, now he is taking out his frustration on some guy on the internet he doesnt even know

 

[nroug7]

I wouldn't go as far as ripping eyes out but if I were in a tough spot, I would sure as hell try to shatter them inwards - again, completely different, and a disturbing thought to process for most people.

I've never learnt any real fighting styles, so my style is just get up and deal the most damage with my entire body as I can, and if they knock me down, I'll just try to get back up again. I guess you could call my "Style" Unfair since I am not afraid to use my nails or teeth, but to hell if I'm not going to use what's available to me.

Also, Brad is correct, a real life struggle to the death is completely different, you don't have time to think about what your next reaction will be, how to act and what you think you can do, the only real thing you can rely on is INSTINCT. I've been in a similar situation several times and when your face is been pummeled against a tree trunk, the last thing on your mind is "Can I gouge his eyes out."
No, you are going to escape in any way you can, and many martial arts give you an instinct response to use in this situation, I'm naturally flinchy and always on guard thanks to my troublesome upbringing, but others may not be.

 

[switch]

nroug7, before foreverAFC ruined his thread with his drivel about hollywood movies, which no one here has even been talking about lol, the discussion was about the efficiency of martial arts and what they can do for you if you put in the right amount of effort to properly learn them.

Each and every one of them can be effective if they've been mastered to a proper degree, which is what most of us here have been trying to tell the OP. Now, each of these defense systems has its strengths and weaknesses, which is why some top practitioners have advocated the importance of cross training. Taking out someone's eyes may get you in a lot of trouble today, but a couple hundred years ago martial arts weren't about honour or sport or playing fair.

They were about survival.

cross training ==== JEET KUN DO ....nuff said
and i don't mean the modern JKD which is corrupted by con artists and frauds alike....i mean the original philosophy of JKD,
"learn what feels functional from every martial art and discard the rest"
:woo:

 

[Bible_Belt]

i mean the original philosophy of JKD,
"learn what feels functional from every martial art and discard the rest"

It's been one big circle from that philosophy to modern mma. The original UFC was set up as style versus style. It didn't take long to learn that there was a practical advantage to learning moves from several different styles.

MMA, when done correctly, is just like Bruce Lee's JKD. You 'flow like water' by letting your opponent determine how you fight. Advantage comes from pitting strength versus weakness.

One of the ways that mma is not quite a "real" fight is simply the fact that we have to produce an entertaining product. It doesn't matter how good a fighter is if no one wants to pay to see him. Any pro fighter worth a damn knows that, and the bias in everyone's style it creates is one towards stand up striking, because that's what fans like to see. The UFC has had world champion grapplers who will stand toe to toe and try to kickbox.

 

[Bible_Belt]

MMA is geared toward learning techniques that will help you subdue an opponent in the ring, whereas JKD is geared toward survival in a fight when your life is in danger, and there are no rules.

Everybody's mma background and training is different. The guys who come from a submission grappling background tend to be more inclined toward pulling guard and jumping on their back intentionally, the stuff that doesn't work on the street.

My trainer's background is in Japanese jiu-jitsu and pre-UFC sport fighting. Back then it was called "no holds barred" or "tough man." He spent ten years training crotch kicks and was disappointed that mma didn't have them. So we were all taught a very combat-applicable style of mma.

And despite the rules, mma fighters still get kicked and kneed in the crotch all the time. The protective "cup" I suppose is a good idea to keep from losing a testicle from a perfectly placed strike, but it makes a bigger target that transfers shock. The inside of the thigh is legal to strike and no one is perfectly accurate, especially against a moving target. Amateurs get hit in the nuts more than pros, and at that level, the ref is less likely to see it and stop the fight. My impression of a knee to the crotch was that it was exactly like in video games - your green bar of energy gets cut in half.

Obviously, mma isn't street fighting, but if you go to a local amateur event, you will see quite a few fighters who discovered mma after beating up countless people in bar and street fights. The place I used to train was full of guys like that. They'd finally found people that they couldn't beat up which led them to be interested in training martial arts in the first place. Because mma is the most popular combat sport right now, it attracts the best fighters. The sport may not be a "real" fight, but the participants are very real fighters.

 

[playa99]

I've studied Martial arts in some capacity for most of my life, from the sounds of things the OP should not have been sparring, in any combat sport, you have to expect to take some physical contact, if you can't deal with it then plain and simple don't do it, i know i could talk my way out of pretty much any street situation or simply walk away. People have a different tolerance to sparring, i'm daft enough to take a punch, i've been doing it for a long time, i have been dropped, ive dropped people. Karate, boxing, kick boxing and muay thai mainly are what ive trained in. I would never use what i've learnt with the intention of using it in the street. I resent people who go in gyms or dojos with the intention of hurting people. A strong hook from someone trained in the ring, will put down most untrained people!

 

[nroug7]

nroug7, before foreverAFC ruined his thread with his drivel about hollywood movies, which no one here has even been talking about lol, the discussion was about the efficiency of martial arts and what they can do for you if you put in the right amount of effort to properly learn them.

Each and every one of them can be effective if they've been mastered to a proper degree, which is what most of us here have been trying to tell the OP. Now, each of these defense systems has its strengths and weaknesses, which is why some top practitioners have advocated the importance of cross training. Taking out someone's eyes may get you in a lot of trouble today, but a couple hundred years ago martial arts weren't about honour or sport or playing fair.

They were about survival.

You pretty much summarized up what I was attempting to say.

With the proper training, this kind of stuff can become second nature.

 

[Körniger Frischkäse]

The question is: How to train nowadays without getting your bones broken in the process while training well enough to be able to cope with the normal attacker(the one who has no knife but a big mouth and seems physically strong) you face while being in tune with the laws(in my case german laws)?

Now this will turn into something useful.

 

[playa99]

@Korniger , plain and simple, if you get a straight right hand down the pipe, and you haven't trained or sparred much, its gonna either bust or break your nose, depending on your genetic build up.

I don't know much about you, you could have a bad diet and weak bones, you could have been put in sparring before you were ready? Your technique may not have been up to sparring, you should have basic knowledge of defence/offence before you spar, generally takes around 6 weeks from starting?

The answer is.... pick a combat sport, train at it, practice your technique, be dedicated! deal with the possibility of getting hurt, in combat sport.... everyone gets hurt at some point, you have to deal with this.

In terms of fighting on the streets, I personally would avoid that at all costs, in a gym/dojo it is much safer and much more controlled than street fighting.

That's just my opinion, I used to be a kickboxing coach before leg injuries got the better of me, i've been in street fights and fought a lot in the ring.. I've come to the conclusion I don't need to fight anyone on the street, the risk is massive and the reward is minimal

Theres no point, if a girl wants you because you've won a fight, then chances are she is not good for you!

If you are being bullied and need self defense, great.. learn a combat sport and defend yourself!

 

[foreverAFC]

The question is: How to train nowadays without getting your bones broken in the process while training well enough to be able to cope with the normal attacker(the one who has no knife but a big mouth and seems physically strong) you face while being in tune with the laws(in my case german laws)?

Now this will turn into something useful.

just rip out their eyes and testicles

 

[switch]

The question is: How to train nowadays without getting your bones broken in the process while training well enough to be able to cope with the normal attacker(the one who has no knife but a big mouth and seems physically strong) you face while being in tune with the laws(in my case german laws)?

Now this will turn into something useful.

YOU dear sir, will need a gun for that. BAM! one shot and he is dead or at least disabled in the leg , head, neck,or crotch or where ever hits your fancy...

why should you fight in the first place? because of a woman ?money ? car?.....if you lose your life is it really worth it? of course not
you may think "oh i died protecting my family and woman"
well congratulations cuz , you will most probably gaze down from heaven and watch your wife getting railed by a random bastard....
you died so a SOB can fvck your wife...how about you NOT die and fvck your wife yourself?


look when you get into a fight even for self defense, you get jailed.period.
^ read that again.
go to your library and read a book about the inmate life in a federal prison...
do you know about the "hole" ? what about a manual cavity search in the mess hall in front of 500 inmates, most of them paedophile and rapists? someone puttinga probe in ur as$ in front of all those inmates?
how about we forget about fighting...............and~~~ just RUN?


honestly i have wonderful opportunities to get into fights on a daily basis,you know ......foreign country, ******* locals glaring at me....but i don't beat them to a pulp,why should you go to jail because of an *******, if there is a real emergency just RUN, yes the best self defense is to RUN

your treadmill is the best weapon

 

[Interceptor]

Korniger,
this thread is so all over the place I dont have the attention span to read through all the insults and stuff.
I would like to get right to the point with you.
It appears that one of your fears is training will lead to injury. Am I correct?
Also, you seem to feel like despite your training you still havent developed confidence. Is that also correct?

 

[foreverAFC]

heres a fun video, anyone remember marcos ruas?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8b3_1292618513

 

[foreverAFC]

Switch, I couldn't agree more. I totally believe the original JKD philosophy - when it comes to pure self defense - is the best: gain mastery of one system, and once you have that foundation get rid of what doesn't work and pick up the best techniques from other systems. When you rely on one system, be it jiu jiutsu, or aikido, or MMA, or muay thai, you're severely restricting yourself and placing yourself at a disadvantage.

brad i have read the tao of jkd many times, and its clear to me that most of it was based on western boxing despite bruces background in chinese martial arts. it is well known that bruce looked up to muhammad ali and studied his fights obsessively. i was stunned to see that almost all of the information in the toa was boxing combinations and footwork. combine this with the fact that towards his later years he had become a drug abusing hollywood celebrity, you can see that he may have not been the best person to emulate. i know, his films were great, but thats all bruce lee really was, a character made up by hollywood and jkd was mostly a fad that occurred in the 70s and early 80s. there were some guys that bruce inspired though who went on to become truly accomplished martial artists like dan inosanto and paul vunak

 

[foreverAFC]

The effectiveness of JKD relied on the fact that its two main ideas were:

1. that you should gain mastery of one art, and then get rid of what doesn't work. Then, you should study other arts and use from them whatever you think works.

and

2. that fighting for your life on the street was first and foremost dependent on your state of mind. His martial art, the "way of the intercepting first," stressed always being cognizant of your surroundings and attacking your opponent before he had a chance to attack you first. It also encouraged a very aggressive state of mind in which you defended yourself using a variety of rapid, vicious strikes to vulnerable spots of the human body. It was a common sense system that relied on fast, vicious strikes.. and placing the most vicious weapons closer to your opponent.

Lee did in fact incorporate a lot of boxing in his JKD repertoire. In my own street fights when I was younger, I probably used boxing more than anything. But his system used a variety of more practical strikes, footwork, joint locks, and grappling moves that were adopted from a wide variety of self defense systems, including boxing, jiu jiutsu, judo, aikido, taekwondo, and wrestling among others. His JKD system was, in fact, the original mixed martial art, which was heavily frowned upon in those conservative early days when loyalty to one art was stressed. He read up on the finest most scientifically up to date training methods on weightlifting and aerobic exercise. He was an early proponent of circuit training. His defense system relied mostly on finger jabs to the eyes, groin strikes, and quickly and viciously taking out your opponent. All sound advice if you ask me, whatever your opinions are of Bruce Lee as an actor, martial artist, or human being.

You may have read "Tao of Jeet Kune Do," but foreverAFC have you read "Bruce Lee's Fighting Method: Self Defense Techniques"?

I strongly urge you to pick it up if you want to learn real life-or-death street defense. In my opinion it is probably one of the best books I have on the subject.

Now although Lee may have taken pain killers later on in his life, for better or worse he was human just like you and me. But if you read statements from top world champions, and top sportsmen/boxers/weightlifters of his time, you will see that every one saw him as an extremely well developed athlete and self defense expert.

Mind you, the videos you post of early UFC fights are cool, I remember enjoying watching them a lot when I was a kid too. I too once cheered on greats like Marco Ruas and Royce Gracie and Dan Severn. But out in the street, if you remain cool and calm, a much smaller opponent can take these guys down by attacking their vulnerable sections, and these types of strikes are not allowed in MMA fighting which is why it's not a totally realistic view of a life or death situation.

This is why the martial arts were developed: to level the playing field. To make sure that even a small wimpy kid can take out a much larger, more experienced fighter if it meant saving his life. No matter how big or strong you are, the vulnerable spots of the human body are always the same.

jkd was actually not the first mixed martial art. for example, before bruce lee there was an englishman who combined boxing, wrestling, cane fighting, jiu jitsu and fencing to create Bartitsu.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartitsu

there was also pankration in the greek olympics thousands of years ago that combined boxing and wrestling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration

there was also the case of Rex Applegate who took his knowledge of asian martial arts and created combatives systems for allied forces in WW2 along with William Fairbairn who created Defendu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Applegate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_E._Fairbairn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defendu


i did read bruce lees earlier self defense books which were actually pretty good. i found those books much more useful than the tao of jkd, though i heard that the tao of jkd that was released to the public was only a tiny fraction of the material bruce compiled and his wife wont release the rest so who know what it was supposed to really be.