My beef with martial arts

[twentee]

I've SEEN a gun pulled on my instructor. Moon threw his hat in the guys face (from nearl 10 ft away) and broke his leg with a jump side kick. Most gun uses start MUCH closer than that. So it CAN be done, IF you have real ability!

Many people are killed or badly hurt AFTER they shoot their attacker. SOME men have not been stopped by chest hits with 308 rifles and 12 ga (buckshot and slugs) It takes real ability with a gun to mean much, too, and few "gun men" have that ability. They also lack the will to kill (right there and then) are worried about innocents in the line of fire, the noise and legal repercussions, etc. So they hesitate, and that hesitation CAN be used against them. Not always, not with success, but it can and does happen. Especially if the guy is stupid enough to touch me with the gun's muzzle. THAT makes it EASY to slap it aside and do a backfist to nose (same hand) or gouge eyes with other hand. People with a weapon in their hand RARELY are able to do ANYTHING else. Their ENTIRE focus is on that weapon, and once you negate that weapon, it takes them 1/2-1.0 second to get their mind straight. If you have trained in what to do, you can mess them up BADLY in 1/2 second.

 

[twentee]

Ive held men at gunpoint 4x in my life, and they all FROZE in place. they could TELL (by the look on my face) that I was going to empty my pistol into their chests. But it takes REAL speed of draw, almost always, to bring the gun"into play" in time for the attacker to NOTICE it and back down. I started working on concealed fast draw at age 12, 1964. Where were you. ? As a teenager, you HAVE the spare time needed to make the many thousands of such practice draws, the 1000's of drysnaps (of the unloaded gun) the hundreds of hours needed to make money to buy reloading components and .22lr ammo, to buy the lead wheelweights from scrapyards, the time to cast the bullets out of that lead, and reload the ammo, pick up the fired casings and reload them again, make and set up the targets, go to the matches, etc,etc.

 

[twentee]

you CAN'T fully clench your hand with ANYTHING in your palm or fingers, much less a thick glove on your hand . Punch without a proper clench or with a bent wrist and you WILL badly hurt your hand or wrist. Boxing on the speed bag TEACHES you to hit with the LITTLE fingers, which is stupid, that's the weakest part of your hand. When I punch you in the chest with a bare fist, you AINT gonna just shake it off, like you can if my fist has 1" of padding on it. what's going to happen, bare knuckles, is I m going to drive the broken ends of your ribs into your lung, liver, or spleen, and you might very well DIE of that one punch. I can throw 8 such punches per second, even at my age. Bruce Lee could throw TWENTY per second. My punches will break pine 2 by12 boards, 12" long (with the grain) that are hung on a string, (ie, only its mass to "hold" while I break it)

 

[foreverAFC]

boxer vs crowd of people

here is that old clip of the boxer fighting multiple people and winning, this is basic boxing, he is dropping people with basic jabs and his hands are open for parrying/defense

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4ehL45sTJQ


jiu jitsu and grappling arts are powerful but are mostly useful for one on one, while simple but well trained boxing with only two hands could allow you to defend yourself against several people at once

 

[foreverAFC]

here is a copy of Kill of Get Killed in ebook

http://www.resist.com/Kill_or_Get_Killed_Pt1.pdf


this was the close quarters combat manual created for allied forces going to WW2, its a crash course in self defense using a mix of martial arts

 

[goundra]

it takes MUCH more work than the military is ever going to pay for you to get. 200 hours. minimum, IF you are strong, fit, flexible, and have a great instructor and keep the class size under 4 people. So it's going to cost you $5,000, and don't be surprised if it takes 1 year and $10,000, either. Put a chair in one guy;s hand, and a knife in another guy;s hand, and a broken bottle in the 3rd guy;s hand, and SEE if the boxer does so hot. for me, if there's more than 1 attacker, unarmed, or if the one has a weapon, my pistol's coming out and if they doesn't INSTANTLY stop, they're ALL getting shot. I'll worry about legal repercussions if and when they find out who did it and also locate me. Not very likely, cause if I have to shoot anybody, I'm putting it all in the wind, in a major way. I have no faith whatsoever in 12 gramma's who couldn't duck jury duty being my "peers". To find 12 of my REAL peers, you'd have to seach most of the US.

 

[goundra]

it was a joke, 40 years ago. just basic, common sense stuff, to make the troops THINK that they'd been taught something, that's all it is. Fairbairn, Sykes, and Appelgate gave SOE spies sabataur's ONE day of dryfire and 50 rds of ammo with the pistol, and considered them "trained". today, we give cops 40-50 hours and 500 rds, and they of course screw up royally any time that 's more than a "bluff" surrender sort of deal. so how much "help" was a day of dryfire and lecture, and 50 rds, in WWII, hmm? it was a joke then and muchmore ofa joke today.

if someone whio really knows how will give you 20 hours of instruction, 1 hour in morning, 1 hour in afteroon, for10 weekends, and you take notes, maybe have a video made, and dryfire and use Airsoft and .22, another 20 hours, spread over those 10 week, and IF you are dedicated and intelligent, you can adequately master REALISTIC, civilian simple self defense. If, however, you want to REALLY be what the swat cops THINK that they are, figure on 10x that much intstruction and practice. HUNDREDS of hours, thousands of $ of instruction and 10,000 rds, plus about 20% of that spent again, every year that you want to retain that ability.

 

[foreverAFC]

it was a joke, 40 years ago. just basic, common sense stuff, to make the troops THINK that they'd been taught something, that's all it is. Fairbairn, Sykes, and Appelgate gave SOE spies sabataur's ONE day of dryfire and 50 rds of ammo with the pistol, and considered them "trained". today, we give cops 40-50 hours and 500 rds, and they of course screw up royally any time that 's more than a "bluff" surrender sort of deal. so how much "help" was a day of dryfire and lecture, and 50 rds, in WWII, hmm? it was a joke then and muchmore ofa joke today.

well at the time those guys were being shipped off to ww2, they didnt have time to train, which was the whole point of the text. to give soldiers being shipped off a crash course, better than nothing. i still find the text to be useful to look through.

 

[twentee]

that was then and them, and this is you and now. Be aware of that.

 

[goundra]

you can do FAR better. the "techniques" are almost all sneak attacks, with a dagger, and thus, have nothing much to do with self defense, with the sort of knife that we might HAVE, such as a lockblade folder or a butcherknife, snatched up for the moment. Some States, such as CA, permit the open carry of a knife, IF it does not have 2 edges. Daggers are poorly suited to the most effective DEFENSIVE move with a knife, which is the slash. Daggers are almost totally designed/intended for the thrust, which aint all that likely to stop an attack, and carries a grave peril of having your blade 'caught" in his flesh, or the handle or your hand seized, etc, resulting in your knife being jerked out of your control. Frankly, I can't believe that anyone would choose to or survive using a knife, vs gun-armed soldiers, more than a VERY few times. Instead, you'd split their skulls or attack necks with an entrenching tool. the blade is SO likely to become caught or deflected in a pack harness, heavy coat, etc, when engaging soldiers, in cold weather, it's a REALLY bad bet, unless you can sneak up on them from behind in the dark, grab mouth and either thrust to kidney or slit throat. that has NOTHING to do with self defense

 

[Bible_Belt]

the most effective DEFENSIVE move with a knife, which is the slash. Daggers are almost totally designed/intended for the thrust, which aint all that likely to stop an attack, and carries a grave peril of having your blade 'caught" in his flesh, or the handle or your hand seized, etc, resulting in your knife being jerked out of your control.

I was taught the same thing. Most people do when given a knife and told to fight will be to start making stabbing motions. Stabbing is an effective way to kill someone, but it's slow. That's why prisoners do it, a couple pricks with an ice pick and the guy will die in his sleep that night in his cell. But it doesn't work in a hand to hand fight to the death, because the guy you stab still has plenty of time to kill you before he dies later.

Knife fighting when done correctly is slashing and moving. If your opponent is attacking you, it will be impossible for him to not get cut. Then you just keep at it until he bleeds out. Some stick fighting moves also translate well to knives. A joint lock that works with a bamboo stick will also work with a knife. I wouldn't want to cut off someone's finger or hand, though, which is what would happen. I think the sight of that would make me pass out.