MGTOW is the only way to go

[SW15]

at least a half assed pua would have some sort of options and experience compared to 90 percent of men out there. Not dating and not taking action completely rears inexperience and inexperienced men tend to be the ones most at risk from being exploited in marriage or LTRS.

If they are truly MGTOW, they won't be pursuing LTRs/marriages. If a man remains in the marketplace, then half assed PUA is better than remaining a blue pill, beta male chump.

rejections hurt for the first year or two then after a while you get used to it once some positive feedback comes and helps .

Handling rejections requires thick skin. Many men are too sensitive for the rejections. Some might have the ability to handle rejections better over time. Some men will not see an improve in their own ability to psychologically handle the rejections.

What feedback are you referring to? Women generally do not give you feedback after a failed first date or failed initial approach. The feedback a man gets from women is through her actions. It's either pass/fail.

Some men might have a male friend that is competent at seduction and would be able to give real world feedback on some daygame or nightgame. Another thing that a male approacher could do is wear a GoPro and capture some footage of his approaches. Then, he could send the footage to a pickup artist online or a competent male friend.

Men who use swipe apps often post screenshots of text-based chats on forums like SoSuave. Text message threads from any sort of meeting type can also be posted.

Of course for most men even high value men cold approach will be 80-90 percent rejection which will be filled with unpleasant dates and lmr.

It is true that experienced approachers have a high failure rate on their approaches.

Even if a man has a successful in-person approach and arranges a date, there's a good chance that the first date will still be a "one date, no sex, no second date" type interaction. With that said, a man does typically reduce his ""one date, no sex, no second date" by approaching in the real world as compared to swiping.

Sometimes a man has a "one date, no sex, no second date" interaction because the woman on the date is awful. The typical "one date, no sex, no second date" interaction is when the man offers a second date and the woman ghosts or sends some lame text message like "I had a good time but do not see this relationship going forward".

I know of people who were initially successful at cold approach but gave up due to the repeated rejections or didn't have the mental will to carry on- dating in this modern age is a bigger willpower drain on men imo particularly in western cities.

This sounds normal to me. Dealing with the rejection is tough. I've been dating in large Western cities in the USA during my adult life. It's not easy. Women, especially White women, in these large Western cities are extremely selective and demanding. Women in major USA and Western European cities have unprecedented abundance.

Online game for me had far more flakes - daygame at least you're able to exert some initial demonstrations of confidence and personality for me it helped reduce a lot of flakes

Online game tends to have more flakes because it is very easy to flake on some abstract person. In online game, the initial game is done behind an electronic screen and feels less real.

In daygame, there has already been an in-person experience and that always helps to reduce flaking. If a daygame prospect flakes, she flakes before the first date and you haven't wasted the cost of the first date. Tech arranged dates lead to a first date where the man absorbs the cost of the initial in-person interaction.

It is not a good experience to have a daygame prospect flake, but it is better than when an online prospect flakes.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Let's be clear we both agree that most men aren't getting laid
We both also agree that the rise of incels is a real thing
However, when I speak about the growth of MGTOW i'm talking about people who are aware of the label and claim it proudly
I don't see people IRL running claiming to be "MGTOW" heck most people who you would throw in that category probably have never heard of it.

Some guy might be lonely and single in Iowa but never heard about MGTOW and could give a shytless doesn't make him a mgtow it just makes him a lonely guy in IOWA

Iowa isn’t bad. I did Tinder out there. Pretty decent.

 

[corrector]

my girlfriend never used online dating

That is interesting. You get the idea that if OLD is so great for women, that virtually every woman would try OLD or be happy campers with it if they decide to use it. In my mind, it's like I assume that virtually every gen-Z/Millenial/and some gen-X women have OLD accounts.

However, it could be demotivating to cold-approach if you believe that. (ie why cold approach a woman who has a bunch of options that are likely better than you online, etc....). Having the wrong mindset derived from a cynical view from black-pill videos or content can really cause someone to miss out on meeting an amazing woman who might not be using or be a happy camper within the OLD experience.

Online I only had success in Brazil but keep in mind its Brazil any western man who goes there is instantly going to have a much easier time in comparison to major western cities like Paris, London or US . Really getting laid there means very little in the grand scheme of things Im obviously never going to live there permanently due to the high crime and low opportunities literally the women are probably the best thing about Brazil .

I believe what you are saying about Brazil, but I don't think it has to do with being easier for guys from Western countries, in as much as their whole culture and approach to life is different. For example, it's normal for a guy to like a girl, approach her and say hi in Brazil, without having to worry about the lady calling the police, putting stuff up on Tic Tok, or going crazy because you are not a chad/chadlite and felt you were good enough to make an approach (ie in all fairness, I don't think its that bad here either).

My cousin, who is Black, visited Brazil, and had nothing but good things to say about the place. The women were more down to earth and apt to just even start conversations compared to the USA.

Honestly, if I spent even a week in a foreign place like Brazil, then I probably would be talking to women more naturally compared to here.

Ive done daygame in China, Hong Kong, Macau , Bali-Indonesia, Colombia, Brazil , UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kazakstan , Ukraine , Latvia ,UK and the US id say I struggled the most in Eastern Europe given I did game in 2019 and most the pua scene there arrived between 2009-2016 so there was a big daygame rush there and the women weren't giving me much by way of conversation for the 5 days I was there. Latvia was tough too, easiest was probably China I managed to acquire 2 times as many dates on average and a much higher conversation rate into lays there compared to London . For example London I was manage a date roughly once in every 20 approaches China It was more along the lines of one in 8 . So being a foreigner made a huge difference also the economic situation that women told me about alot of men there can't afford to even take a woman out for a coffee .

China sounds like a nice place as well. It sounds like you are well travelled. Have you visited, Toronto, Ontario, Canada and have tried day-game here?

 

[Isildur1]

That is interesting. You get the idea that if OLD is so great for women, that virtually every woman would try OLD or be happy campers with it if they decide to use it. In my mind, it's like I assume that virtually every gen-Z/Millenial/and some gen-X women have OLD accounts.

However, it could be demotivating to cold-approach if you believe that. (ie why cold approach a woman who has a bunch of options that are likely better than you online, etc....). Having the wrong mindset derived from a cynical view from black-pill videos or content can really cause someone to miss out on meeting an amazing woman who might not be using or be a happy camper within the OLD experience.



I believe what you are saying about Brazil, but I don't think it has to do with being easier for guys from Western countries, in as much as their whole culture and approach to life is different. For example, it's normal for a guy to like a girl, approach her and say hi in Brazil, without having to worry about the lady calling the police, putting stuff up on Tic Tok, or going crazy because you are not a chad/chadlite and felt you were good enough to make an approach (ie in all fairness, I don't think its that bad here either).

My cousin, who is Black, visited Brazil, and had nothing but good things to say about the place. The women were more down to earth and apt to just even start conversations compared to the USA.

Honestly, if I spent even a week in a foreign place like Brazil, then I probably would be talking to women more naturally compared to here.




China sounds like a nice place as well. It sounds like you are well travelled. Have you visited, Toronto, Ontario, Canada and have tried day-game here?

no never been to Canada. Most of my mum's side lives in Dallas,Texas or Calfornia. My mum is a real estate investor in San Fransisco but I was born and raised in London-UK .

China is a fantastic spot for daygame as long as you target the major cities - small cities languages can be a barrier that can prevent progress if you don't speak Chinese. Of course it also depends on your taste in women too if you like Asian women or not- Hong Kong had more of a mix and a decent quantity of European women if Asian girls aren't your thing . China's main attraction is the taxis are dirt cheap, the crime is very low and the infrastructure is awesome . If I was single I would love to game there now as I speak fluent Chinese as well.

Brazil I believe being a Westerner they trusted me a lot more than a local guy so that definitely played a big part in the success however I obviously still got blown out a fair chunk and a lot of times my lack of Portuguese killed interactions again whichever city you're gaming in you need to make sure if you don't speak the language that theres a decent upper - middle class population there or theres just going to be alot of frustrating interactions for example north Brazil in Salvador it was harder to interact with women because the English was lacking compared to Belo Horizonte and Rio or Sau-Paulo. Yes its not a complete walk in the park - no where is but by being a Westerner for every 10 interactions I say it gives you an advantage 20-30 percent of the time. Some women accused me of lying being English just so I could impress them they said during the 2014 World Cup a lot of Brazilians would dress in Australian and English soccer jerseys and go to bars and try and pick up Brazilian chicks pretending to be from those countries . The high crime rate in certain cities pissed me off though - alot of people I traveled with got robbed and I had to take Ubers everywhere.

Colombia I dated mainly Americans and a few Scandinavians I didn't have any success with the locals as I found them frustrating again due to my lack of Spanish it was hard to communicate my friend who did a lot of daygame in Colombia complained about the women being boring and often being born in poverty so from a dating perspective if you have too much value compared to the women you're approaching it might make for an uninteresting and boring time. Bear in mind this is just one person's perspective if I was to go again I wouldn't game in Latin America unless I hand some conversational grasp of Spanish. Brazil still has 1 million Japanese and I can speak conversational Japanese but really again without a good grasp of Portuguese daygame there is going to prove a little frustrating unless you're approaching in upper/middle class malls.

 

[SW15]

Dallas,Texas

Have you ever read the Dallas, Texas game thread on this forum? It's a long thread but good information in a lot of spots. The opening post is good.

Observations on Dallas' Scene

Based on @Jesse Pinkman's write ups of New York City, Miami, and large state universities, I thought it would be worthwhile to write up Dallas, the city I call home. The Dallas-Fort Worth metropolitan area (DFW) is the 4th most populated metropolitan area in the United States. Dallas and Fort...

www.sosuave.net

 

[Isildur1]

That is interesting. You get the idea that if OLD is so great for women, that virtually every woman would try OLD or be happy campers with it if they decide to use it. In my mind, it's like I assume that virtually every gen-Z/Millenial/and some gen-X women have OLD accounts.

However, it could be demotivating to cold-approach if you believe that. (ie why cold approach a woman who has a bunch of options that are likely better than you online, etc....). Having the wrong mindset derived from a cynical view from black-pill videos or content can really cause someone to miss out on meeting an amazing woman who might not be using or be a happy camper within the OLD experience.



I believe what you are saying about Brazil, but I don't think it has to do with being easier for guys from Western countries, in as much as their whole culture and approach to life is different. For example, it's normal for a guy to like a girl, approach her and say hi in Brazil, without having to worry about the lady calling the police, putting stuff up on Tic Tok, or going crazy because you are not a chad/chadlite and felt you were good enough to make an approach (ie in all fairness, I don't think its that bad here either).

My cousin, who is Black, visited Brazil, and had nothing but good things to say about the place. The women were more down to earth and apt to just even start conversations compared to the USA.

Honestly, if I spent even a week in a foreign place like Brazil, then I probably would be talking to women more naturally compared to here.




China sounds like a nice place as well. It sounds like you are well travelled. Have you visited, Toronto, Ontario, Canada and have tried day-game here?

well my girlfriend never used online dating because she was scared of meeting people online that shed never met in person however most of my female friends in London use online game a lot even the unattractive ones can usher in a good 10-20 x my attractive male friend's matches. I just think mathematically its never going to work for me in London if a chick is averaging 5k matches even if im in the top 10 percent of guys (which im not) that's still 500 other matches I need to compete with. The maths isn't on men's side when it comes to apps and I understand it.

 

[Isildur1]

Have you ever read the Dallas, Texas game thread on this forum? It's a long thread but good information in a lot of spots. The opening post is good.

Observations on Dallas' Scene

Based on @Jesse Pinkman's write ups of New York City, Miami, and large state universities, I thought it would be worthwhile to write up Dallas, the city I call home. The Dallas-Fort Worth metropolitan area (DFW) is the 4th most populated metropolitan area in the United States. Dallas and Fort...

www.sosuave.net

I go to Dallas once a year to visit my aunts - 2012 I did some daygame on university of Texas campus but I was a rookie back then and nothing amount to it although some interactions went well I think it was mainly for my English accent rather than anything else - seeing as I live in my aunt's house every time I go to Dallas I obviously have no logistics there - quality wise I wasn't too impressed in the malls in Dallas alot of fat people ( I know its a stereotypical complaint) Dubai mall for example would have way better quality. Dallas is a great place for family and raising kids but from a dating perspective I need to live there longer to understand it and actually experience a decent quantity of approaches and dates before I can confirm a proper conclusion. With any city unless you do a solid 100-200 sets its really hard to gage what's going on.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

That is interesting. You get the idea that if OLD is so great for women, that virtually every woman would try OLD or be happy campers with it if they decide to use it. In my mind, it's like I assume that virtually every gen-Z/Millenial/and some gen-X women have OLD accounts.

I met plenty of women who think dating apps are for losers and they don't care about guys who have an OLD account, because in their mind, real men don't use dating apps.

 

[corrector]

well my girlfriend never used online dating because she was scared of meeting people online that shed never met in person however most of my female friends in London use online game a lot even the unattractive ones can usher in a good 10-20 x my attractive male friend's matches. I just think mathematically its never going to work for me in London if a chick is averaging 5k matches even if im in the top 10 percent of guys (which im not) that's still 500 other matches I need to compete with. The maths isn't on men's side when it comes to apps and I understand it.

Right, but the issue is if there is also a spill-over of this into cold-approaching. For example, you said in London your numbers are 1 in 20. OLD might be skewing those numbers so that it's worst than China's 1 in 8. If you didn't have OLD, then it might be more like 1 in 10? At least a large amount of those women might have OLD.

 

[Isildur1]

Right, but the issue is if there is also a spill-over of this into cold-approaching. For example, you said in London your numbers are 1 in 20. OLD might be skewing those numbers so that it's worst than China's 1 in 8. If you didn't have OLD, then it might be more like 1 in 10? At least a large amount of those women might have OLD.

1 in roughly 15-20 for a date, my lay was roughly 1 in 76 approaches. London Daygame coach tom torero claimed 1 lay every 35 approaches. Roughly every 3-4 women I dated would end up in one lay of course you get swathes of variance of very lucky and unlucky periods. What you mean by OLD?

 

[Isildur1]

Right, but the issue is if there is also a spill-over of this into cold-approaching. For example, you said in London your numbers are 1 in 20. OLD might be skewing those numbers so that it's worst than China's 1 in 8. If you didn't have OLD, then it might be more like 1 in 10? At least a large amount of those women might have OLD.

London is full of high value men by comparison alot of men in China can't even afford to go on a coffee date - the difference is night and day add in the fact that Chinese men are traditionally pretty shy, introverted and have confidence issues and it defiantly helps things a lot. There are a lot of charismatic/handsome men in London so having those traits won't stand out much and theres a huge amount wealth there so still being wealthy in London counts for pretty little. I'd say Im top 250k net worth in London and in terms of daygame interactions it didn't add much or entice women because any semi decent woman here is probably getting their dms slid in by wealthy men

 

[corrector]

1 in roughly 15-20 for a date, my lay was roughly 1 in 76 approaches. London Daygame coach tom torero claimed 1 lay every 35 approaches. Roughly every 3-4 women I dated would end up in one lay of course you get swathes of variance of very lucky and unlucky periods. What you mean by OLD?

OLD means OnLine Dating, it's a common term here. The idea is that your numbers would be better in cold approach if there was no social media or OLD.

 

[Isildur1]

I met plenty of women who think dating apps are for losers and they don't care about guys who have an OLD account, because in their mind, real men don't use dating apps.

I just realised OLD is online dating ha
yeah I definitely have female with this approach , some of them don't like being commoditised online which is understandable. My Cousin is a model in Dubai though and she gets a lot of free **** all the time even got a private jet ride one time from her old boss who was trying to sleep with her.

 

[Isildur1]

OLD means OnLine Dating, it's a common term here. The idea is that your numbers would be better in cold approach if there was no social media or OLD.

definitely I spoke to a few dating coaches in London and they say their results went down post tinder invention - I guess online dating created a permanent change in sexual dynamics for life but the desperation in me caused me to change and put myself out there more so I guess it the scarcity forced me to act.

 

[SW15]

1 in roughly 15-20 for a date, my lay was roughly 1 in 76 approaches. London Daygame coach tom torero claimed 1 lay every 35 approaches. Roughly every 3-4 women I dated would end up in one lay of course you get swathes of variance of very lucky and unlucky periods. What you mean by OLD?

1 lay per 76 approaches is a decent conversion ratio. I'm assuming that these were somewhat targeted approaches and not full on spam approaching. If a man is spam approaching, I could see his ratio of lays to approaches in a daygame setting being 150+.

If the lay to approach ratio is too low, then a man is more likely to go MGTOW.

 

[holidayad_]

Online I only had success in Brazil but keep in mind its Brazil any western man who goes there is instantly going to have a much easier time in comparison to major western cities like Paris, London or US . Really getting laid there means very little in the grand scheme of things Im obviously never going to live there permanently due to the high crime and low opportunities literally the women are probably the best thing about Brazil .

Any western man, bro? Sure? Chicks from Brazil are *****s like any western chicks around the world. They have pretty much the same "criterias".

 

[Bigpapa]

Any western man, bro? Sure? Chicks from Brazil are *****s like any western chicks around the world. They have pretty much the same "criterias".

In poorer countries the gold digging is at levels that most guys in the western world can not even think about

this going to poor countries is just a naive way of thinking. Maximum most guys will get is some ugly chick that they could have banged in their home country too if they would have put the effort

It is true banging ugly chicks in a poor country is easier, but would a guy in his right mind would think about which country is easier to bang ugly chicks?

Plus, it would be just a matter of time till the ugly chick from the rainforest will start treating you like sh1t if you are this desperate

 

[Scaramouche]

Hi Big Papa,
Always been one of your Fans....But on Travelling to make out,I think you have just been going to the wrong places...Go to the Philippines....Sadly,as with everywhere those Conquistadores went they pillaged everything,leaving grinding poverty and corruption....And how they breed,Still!....Compare Malaya,Singapore,Hong Kong to most South American Countries and Yes the Philippines...But to get back on topic...If before you go,you line up your Ladies on the Net you will find what you are looking for,I did!...Go to the Bars and you will find the same trash you get in every Culture.

 

[Isildur1]

Any western man, bro? Sure? Chicks from Brazil are *****s like any western chicks around the world. They have pretty much the same "criterias".

Statistically being western will give you an advantage over 100-200 sets and interactions . Of course from girl to girl this still varies some won’t care at all.

advantages in countries help but there are always women in developing countries that don’t give a rats ass and that’s fine

 

[Isildur1]

1 lay per 76 approaches is a decent conversion ratio. I'm assuming that these were somewhat targeted approaches and not full on spam approaching. If a man is spam approaching, I could see his ratio of lays to approaches in a daygame setting being 150+.

If the lay to approach ratio is too low, then a man is more likely to go MGTOW.

I was lower than my friends who were in London around 1in 30-40 but they were better looking than me so it makes sense . Of course it varies from person to person I met one guy who managed 1 in 20 which was extremely impressive but he was pretty ripped and had excellent conversation skills and quick thinking pua skills can obviously make a difference but there needs to be some smv there first .

in China it was more 1 in 35ish for me so a big difference in terms of yield far less time spent approaching and far more dates but then again due to the socioeconomics of the nation and the fact the men can’t really compete with most westerners it makes sense .