no- she was on of the most but she was one of the few that I genuinely trusted. I felt living in a competitive city like London people were always coming and going so it was really hard to garner proper relationship security - alot of the time the women with leave after completion of their studies, or move countries for different job opportunities. It was hard to find a real secure relationship here and I always did better in other countries by comparison .
MGTOW is the only way to go
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Solomon
Master Don Juan
Let's be clear we both agree that most men aren't getting laid
We both also agree that the rise of incels is a real thing
However, when I speak about the growth of MGTOW i'm talking about people who are aware of the label and claim it proudly
I don't see people IRL running claiming to be "MGTOW" heck most people who you would throw in that category probably have never heard of it.
Some guy might be lonely and single in Iowa but never heard about MGTOW and could give a shytless doesn't make him a mgtow it just makes him a lonely guy in IOWA
Mike32ct
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The term MGTOW has largely fallen out of use.
Plenty of guys fit the term MGTOW, but they don’t call themselves MGTOW even if they are familiar with the term.
Plenty of guys fit the term MGTOW, but they don’t call themselves MGTOW even if they are familiar with the term.
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@SW15 keeps making up his own definitions for different terms. He doesn't care what wiki incel says, or what an incel site may definte that terms as. He doesn't care what an MGTOW site or black-pill MGTOWS actually says. He believes that someone who hires a pro and gets laid is not an incel and its a valid notch count and spews all sorts of negative threads about how guys are just pvssy beggars online and 77 year old women have an easier time getting matches.
MGTOW, according to their own website, means any guy who is actually dating (ie however, more like ONS, hooking up with someone off Tinder, not too invested in any one woman/date), or if they are not attractive enough to pick-up girls like that, then they are using pros. It's a type of lifestyle like that. Monk-mode for MTGOWs are more like getting away from women altogether.
@SW15 likes to take monk-mode MGTOW and then claim that's all MGTOWs.
It's an operational definition on this board for posters who claim they love using pros but don't have the time, patience or room to put up with the games, drama or issues involved with dealing with women. This is where it's used most often on here.
IRL, I don't associate much with people and don't feel there are any true incels or MGTOWS around, even with my family or at work. You just see them on this board.
The city I live in London is too competitive for me to stand out in online dating. I live in two cities London and Cannes/Nice south of France for most of the year these cities tend to have extremely high value men that I simply can't compete with online. Daygame at least I was able to get some solid leads and interactions - also note my girlfriend never used online dating so the only way I could meet here was through daygame . Cold approaching always had the least amount of flakes for me compared to night game and online game- maybe due to the respect I received from the women doing it? Of course there were plenty of flakes and bad dates on the way - especially in London were there are so many cultures you could be dating liberal women who want quick sex or conservative women that hold out and don't give you much so it can be quite a mind **** some time.
Online I only had success in Brazil but keep in mind its Brazil any western man who goes there is instantly going to have a much easier time in comparison to major western cities like Paris, London or US . Really getting laid there means very little in the grand scheme of things Im obviously never going to live there permanently due to the high crime and low opportunities literally the women are probably the best thing about Brazil .
Ive done daygame in China, Hong Kong, Macau , Bali-Indonesia, Colombia, Brazil , UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kazakstan , Ukraine , Latvia ,UK and the US id say I struggled the most in Eastern Europe given I did game in 2019 and most the pua scene there arrived between 2009-2016 so there was a big daygame rush there and the women weren't giving me much by way of conversation for the 5 days I was there. Latvia was tough too, easiest was probably China I managed to acquire 2 times as many dates on average and a much higher conversation rate into lays there compared to London . For example London I was manage a date roughly once in every 20 approaches China It was more along the lines of one in 8 . So being a foreigner made a huge difference also the economic situation that women told me about alot of men there can't afford to even take a woman out for a coffee .
Well I'm here to tell you there is such a magic wand. Something that will make you almost completely irresistible to any woman you "point it" at. Something guaranteed to fill your life with love, romance, and excitement.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.
Scaramouche
Master Don Juan
Hi Isildur1,
This post is one of the most interesting I have read on here....you claim you don't stand out in London...that's amazing,you are obviously at ease in both French and English Cultures,your list of Countries you have been in and played Game in (13) is quite remarkable,if you didn't walk around with shvit in your eyes,how can you help but be stimulating,attractive even romantic?...But something isn't right One in eight successful; approaches in China?No way...the last time I went to China was Nanjing 2017...Everywhere I went Women came to me...Sitting at a table outside a fast food place,first one very nice Women came and sat next to me,started talking in broken English,before long there were four or five of them,even in the Botanical Gardens,they came to me,and mate I am no Daniel Craig...So why the problems for you?
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Manure Spherian
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“Walking through open doors” approach (Dr. Robert Glover) is the way to go.
there's 100,000 millionaires that reside in London, if you're wealthy and handsome it doesn't mean much here. There are many men with high smv here and a lot of the attractive girls get taken up quick so you need to be persistent. Ideally September and October time is optimal in London because that's when a lot of university's start their courses and you have a huge batch of fresh students coming in which provides good opportunities and again with a lot of women the timing is crucial when you're in a highly competitive place. As for France my parent's have a holiday home about an hour away from Cannes in an area called VilleFranche - I never had any success using online dating there and I've been in a relationship recently so didn't have time to test daygame out there. Still think Cannes and Monaco have some of the best quality women but I have no idea on day games premise there as I haven't done a solid number of approaches to test it out.
I had success in china but I still had to make the first move on every occasion - I like it that way and when women approach me on very rare occasions im suspicious of their intentions especially in a third world nation. Surprisingly the country where I got approached the most was Saudi Arabia - guess it could be because their women have been locked up for so long. Hong Kong was a little trickier - I think women expect a bit more there in general and its hard to do daygame in a densely populated small region because after a while you start to approach women who are friends with other women you've approached.
always - at least a half assed pua would have some sort of options and experience compared to 90 percent of men out there. Not dating and not taking action completely rears inexperience and inexperienced men tend to be the ones most at risk from being exploited in marriage or LTRS.
Scaramouche
Master Don Juan
Hi Isildur,
Still bemused by your situation...But to change tack,you said there were 100.000 millionaires in London....Doubting Thomas that I am imagine my utter amazement when I Googled it...." London has 258,000 resident millionaires, 384 centi-millionaires, and 36 billionaires."and that's Sterling worth two of our Dollars...
Still bemused by your situation...But to change tack,you said there were 100.000 millionaires in London....Doubting Thomas that I am imagine my utter amazement when I Googled it...." London has 258,000 resident millionaires, 384 centi-millionaires, and 36 billionaires."and that's Sterling worth two of our Dollars...
Create self-fulfilling prophecies. Always assume the positive. Assume she likes you. Assume she wants to talk to you. Assume she wants to go out with you. When you think positive, positive things happen.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.
bemused by what exactly? everyones situation is different. In major capital cities with a high amounts of inflows and out flows of people so having daygame statistics about a specific place will vary from person to person based on their looks, the economy of the city they are in, their language skill relative to the people they are approaching ( for example if you're doing daygame in Russia and you speak Russian you will get less blow outs on average than someone who speaks poor Russian ) and more. You shouldn't rely on any dating coach or blog poster to give you information you should find out for yourself by going there and doing a base of 100-200 approaches and then forming your own conclusions.
Major cities like New York, London, Dubai , Paris to name a few will always be competitive and therefore for average joes will require a fair amount more work ethic.
would say I agree with this , my brothers were both successful millionaires living in London they both struggled their whole dating lives mainly because they just simply didn't approach or put themselves out there. Sometimes just consistent approaching and having a good team of wingmen around you trumps all once your value is around a 7-8/10 theres very little separating you and other guys from success other than quantity of approaching.
But its always been hard for men, its always been competitive that's just the way it is , dating will always be a free market so its up to you to adapt in order to win. Nowadays with online dating its hard to garner major difference between the top tier men which is why I encourage cold approaching as a good way to increase men's options and stop men from being at the mercy of dating apps and algorithms
statistically though the majority of Puas will fail , heck for me I had 6 month drought before my first reasonable results, its tough adapting and being social and outgoing consistently is not for the fainthearted I know people who did well from cold approach but gave up because they couldn't take the mental strain of regular rejection - its a big hit to a lot of men's egos.
Of course people who do Pua like myself are usually the bottom rung of society because theres a reason why they were single - at school and university I was unable to compete with the men around me - pua theory helped me to adapt and succeed but it took alot of time.
SW15
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PUA is a tough path. Most students of pickup artistry fail. Neil Strauss was an outlier student of PUA.
Approaching strangers is often unpleasant. A man will take a lot of rejections when approaching strangers in person. When a man is swiping, he's taking his rejections virtually. Some men prefer to take their rejections behind a screen. Both rejections from a behind a screen and rejections in person hurt.
A man will take rejections if he stays the course as an average frustrated chump, beta male nice guy or as a person who begins to study seduction as a budding pickup artist.
Will a man be able to power through all the rejections? That's unknown. You're correct that the rejections are a big hit to a lot of men's egos.
MGTOW is a bad reaction to market conditions.
Men who are successful don't go MGTOW. If a man is successful with women but never commits to one, he's more of a pickup artist or player. Some might choose serial monogamy and never marry.
There's a lot of overlap between MGTOWs and incels.
Women are rejecting a larger percentage of men. If a man takes enough rejections, he will choose to exit the market. Because sexlessness is increasing, MGTOW/incel/black pill is growing fast. I think the black pill ideology is growing faster than the red pill ideology.
If you are a puussy addict than MGTOW is bad. If you have control over your dong than MGTOW is the best.
Most guys here on the forum are puussy addicts for them MGTOW is bad.
Channel your excited feelings into positive thoughts and behaviors. You will attract women by being enthusiastic, radiating energy, and becoming someone who is fun to be around.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.
SW15
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You are fortunate to be 53 and likely have a slowing sex drive. Men's sex drives do slow with age. At 40, I have noticed that I do not have the same sex drive that I had between 16-25. I had a good testosterone test recently and I am still very much into sex. It hasn't been the same in the last 3-4 years as it was then.
Even with decreases in men's testosterone levels in recent decades, most men still have enough testosterone to be thirsty for sex. Male thirst for sex has been a big part of the simping epidemic.
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yeah the rejections hurt for the first year or two then after a while you get used to it once some positive feedback comes and helps . Of course for most men even high value men cold approach will be 80-90 percent rejection which will be filled with unpleasant dates and lmr. Heck I know of people who were initially successful at cold approach but gave up due to the repeated rejections or didn't have the mental will to carry on- dating in this modern age is a bigger willpower drain on men imo particularly in western cities.
Online game for me had far more flakes - daygame at least you're able to exert some initial demonstrations of confidence and personality for me it helped reduce a lot of flakes
SW15
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If they are truly MGTOW, they won't be pursuing LTRs/marriages. If a man remains in the marketplace, then half assed PUA is better than remaining a blue pill, beta male chump.
Handling rejections requires thick skin. Many men are too sensitive for the rejections. Some might have the ability to handle rejections better over time. Some men will not see an improve in their own ability to psychologically handle the rejections.
What feedback are you referring to? Women generally do not give you feedback after a failed first date or failed initial approach. The feedback a man gets from women is through her actions. It's either pass/fail.
Some men might have a male friend that is competent at seduction and would be able to give real world feedback on some daygame or nightgame. Another thing that a male approacher could do is wear a GoPro and capture some footage of his approaches. Then, he could send the footage to a pickup artist online or a competent male friend.
Men who use swipe apps often post screenshots of text-based chats on forums like SoSuave. Text message threads from any sort of meeting type can also be posted.
It is true that experienced approachers have a high failure rate on their approaches.
Even if a man has a successful in-person approach and arranges a date, there's a good chance that the first date will still be a "one date, no sex, no second date" type interaction. With that said, a man does typically reduce his ""one date, no sex, no second date" by approaching in the real world as compared to swiping.
Sometimes a man has a "one date, no sex, no second date" interaction because the woman on the date is awful. The typical "one date, no sex, no second date" interaction is when the man offers a second date and the woman ghosts or sends some lame text message like "I had a good time but do not see this relationship going forward".
This sounds normal to me. Dealing with the rejection is tough. I've been dating in large Western cities in the USA during my adult life. It's not easy. Women, especially White women, in these large Western cities are extremely selective and demanding. Women in major USA and Western European cities have unprecedented abundance.
Online game tends to have more flakes because it is very easy to flake on some abstract person. In online game, the initial game is done behind an electronic screen and feels less real.
In daygame, there has already been an in-person experience and that always helps to reduce flaking. If a daygame prospect flakes, she flakes before the first date and you haven't wasted the cost of the first date. Tech arranged dates lead to a first date where the man absorbs the cost of the initial in-person interaction.
It is not a good experience to have a daygame prospect flake, but it is better than when an online prospect flakes.
Hamurabimbi
Master Don Juan
Iowa isn’t bad. I did Tinder out there. Pretty decent.
That is interesting. You get the idea that if OLD is so great for women, that virtually every woman would try OLD or be happy campers with it if they decide to use it. In my mind, it's like I assume that virtually every gen-Z/Millenial/and some gen-X women have OLD accounts.
However, it could be demotivating to cold-approach if you believe that. (ie why cold approach a woman who has a bunch of options that are likely better than you online, etc....). Having the wrong mindset derived from a cynical view from black-pill videos or content can really cause someone to miss out on meeting an amazing woman who might not be using or be a happy camper within the OLD experience.
I believe what you are saying about Brazil, but I don't think it has to do with being easier for guys from Western countries, in as much as their whole culture and approach to life is different. For example, it's normal for a guy to like a girl, approach her and say hi in Brazil, without having to worry about the lady calling the police, putting stuff up on Tic Tok, or going crazy because you are not a chad/chadlite and felt you were good enough to make an approach (ie in all fairness, I don't think its that bad here either).Isildur1 said:
My cousin, who is Black, visited Brazil, and had nothing but good things to say about the place. The women were more down to earth and apt to just even start conversations compared to the USA.
Honestly, if I spent even a week in a foreign place like Brazil, then I probably would be talking to women more naturally compared to here.
China sounds like a nice place as well. It sounds like you are well travelled. Have you visited, Toronto, Ontario, Canada and have tried day-game here?Isildur1 said:
Don't always be the one putting yourself out for her. Don't always be the one putting all the effort and work into the relationship. Let her, and expect her, to treat you as well as you treat her, and to improve the quality of your life.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.