Married Women, Single Women

[guru1000]

I'll be sure to mention this to the next altar boy who accuses his priest of molesting him.

Dont forget to mention it as well to the rapist or the 400lb guy who cannot keep a twinkie out of his mouth.

"If it wasn't for that dam NATURE, i wouldn't be serving a 20 year bid."

 

[KontrollerX]

The truth is all in the genetics and how they effect the pain/pleasure principle.

400lb guy decides to make a choice to not eat the twinkie but he begins to get viscious unrelenting hunger pangs, he considers what would be more painful to him ie going without the twinkie or gobbling it down and because the hunger pangs hurt him so much via his horrible genetics that predisposed him to obesity he sucks down the twinkie ending his pain and bringing back the pleasurable feeling of not being voraciously hungry. He has made a choice but genetics played their part in that choice.

Self Righteous p!ssed off guy who has it all together meanwhile sees this and says "What a pathetic fat guy, he should have some discipline like me!" all the while self righteous p!ssed off guy doesn't realize or take into consideration he only has it all together because his genetics focus on giving him pleasure for doing things that would make him healthy and successful. His genetics make not only his mind strong but his body not prone to craving bad food making his "choice" come easier to him than it would the fat guy.

Now certainly both men have the power of choice to go against their genetics and become better men (ie the fat guy thin and healthy and the self righteous assh0le filled with tolerance and understanding) in so doing but they will face a lot of pain as they go against their natural programming.

The pain of not fulfilling your genetic role is so great it is why child molestors, rapists, fat people and self righteous assh0les with a chip on their shoulder continue to exist. It is what nature intended you to be. This is the awful truth.

So while nature doesn't always win out due to we humans having a degree of choice I'd argue it wins out more often than not due to pain pleasure principle and genetics playing a huge factor in the way things go.

 

[Latinoman]

Personally I don't understand this logic by you guys out there. To me, its the exact same thing sleeping with a women who is married and sleeping with a women who has a boyfriend.

Especially with less & less people actually getting married and with the way men are even getting screwed just being in common law relationships. In my opinion they are the exact same thing.

I personally don't have a problem with either and more importantly I don't see the point in trying to shove your personal ethics down someone else's throat. To me it comes across as typical insecure behaviour trying to berate others to make yourself look better. Especially to strangers on the internet. But thats just my opinion.

1- It is NOT the same thing between married woman and women with boyfriends. And there is not the same thing between common law marriage and women with boyfriends. LEGALLY speaking it is not the same. I already established that.

2- There is not such a thing as "personal ethics" as "ethics" are established by society or profession. Do not confuse ethics with values and with morals.

Ethics point to codes of behavior expected by the group to which the individual belongs. While morals pretty much define personal character (they tend to be unchanging). And we have values, which relates to important beliefs (we have the family values which deal with religion, etc.).

3- Perhaps you meant, "morals". To which I will have to tell you one thing...I don't shove my morals to anyone and for that matter my values (as they are MY beliefs). All I am doing is pointing out what's wrong when it comes to ethics (which is a social thing and can potentially be a legal thing). I am also pointing out that the OP (STR8UP) whines and cries about women cheating on their husbands...but then he contributes toward that. In fact, he whines and cries when they are cheating with OTHER men. But when he happens to be the "other man", it is alright. That's called hypocrisy.

 

[Latinoman]

I am NOT cheating on anyone. I never have. I can say "I don't believe that cheating is right" and still sleep with a married woman WITHOUT being a hypocrite. It is WRONG for someone to break a trust bond, but that has nothing to do with an accessory to the transaction. Make sense?

It only make sense if you are a WOMAN justifying her behavior. That is "woma_nize" language.

I make no apologies for my stance on this. I have stated it in the past many times, and I'm not budging anytime soon. You can tell me that I'm WRONG, but I am just as right as you are taking the opposite view.

The issue here is that you have provided TWO different views. One in the recent past...and now this one. It is wrong when the woman does it...but okay if you do it.

 

[Latinoman]

Just to make things clear...my morals are NOT the same as ethics (as I have no control over societal and professional ethics). For that matter, my personal values (beliefs) that were ingrained in me are not the same as ethics.

I am saying that it is NOT ethical to cheat. Everybody in this society knows that.

Now...does it matter if I do it or not? That's not what matters as my morals are only MINE and I won't preach MY morals to anyone.


Now, if I start preaching my morals in here and then act against those same morals...then that makes me a hypocrite. And that is the point I am trying to make. We cannot justify unethical behavior. We can only justify our personal morals.

Yes, I have been with married women before. I know is wrong (unethical). I accepted the risks and understood them perfectly. But my morals are different as I had no problems looking myself in the mirror. Would I encourage people to sleep with married women? No. I don't shove my morals to anyone, especially if they go against what is ethical in our society.

 

[ketostix]

Obviously the most ethical/moral thing to do is to date the single girl, marry her, then have sex with her. Oh but wait no one does that anymore, The single girl is hung up on some guy that's unavailable and would fvck him at a drop of a hat even if he was married or with a girlfriend. And the married women cheat. There's no ethics or morals anymore. If you're going to handle women you're going to get your hands dirty.

Also ethics/morality is about degrees. In the heiarchy of least ethical to most ethical you have the married woman cheating, the single woman pining over a most likely taken guy, and then there's str8up, the most moral and ethical person in this story.

I also have to side with Macavoy to a degree that a person cheating in a commited relationship is just as bad whether it's a marriage or not. If you think any guy who fvcks a woman who's in a relationship is an unethical cheater than every guy who has sex outside of a commited relationship is a cheater too. And the more girls you are fvcking the less moral you are. IMO a guy fvcking two "single" girls is being no more moral than a guy fvcking one married woman who is cheating/ If anyone does agre with how I see the ethics, that's fine. but don't expect me to agree with your counter-veiw either.

 

[Mr. Me]

It is WRONG for someone to break a trust bond, but that has nothing to do with an accessory to the transaction. Make sense?

I understand that point. You're not the one breaking the trust.

Like you said, you're an accessory to the transgression, like an accomplice to the crime, as it were.

So, if it's wrong for someone to break a trust bond, does it follow that it's also wrong to be an accomplice to that?

 

[DavenJuan]

originally posted by Latinoman
The issue here is that you have provided TWO different views. One in the recent past...and now this one. It is wrong when the woman does it...but okay if you do it.

motives and intentions should play a role in this dont ya think?

your making it seem as if his intentions are to break up this home. apparently this "home" as already been tarnished.

and personally i dont see the "different" views you are referring to that str8 has taken (unless i missed this thread)

IMO from his past threads its only been stated that "womens actions prove to him that marriage is more and more less likely to be an option" that he would want to pursue.

the morally right/wrong discussions seem to never go anywhere.

the bottomline is, i dont think anyone is out there PROMOTING to go and sleep with married women. a married person is responsible to their vows and commitment

 

[Latinoman]

I am NOT cheating on anyone. I never have. I can say "I don't believe that cheating is right" and still sleep with a married woman WITHOUT being a hypocrite. It is WRONG for someone to break a trust bond, but that has nothing to do with an accessory to the transaction. Make sense?

STR8UP...honestly, I don't care if you slept with a married woman.
In fact, in my first post to you in this thread...I clearly stated that I won't comment on the married woman thing (sleeping with her).

The issue that forced me to comment on this was that you clearly found justifications about what you did.

It is unethical plain and simple. When I did it was unethical too. We have to ACCEPT that fact. And we have to accept the consequences of those actions too.

Now...if you can look yourself in the mirror (e.g. your personal morals are such that you can do it)...then who cares what I or anyone thinks about this?

In the past, you were very critical of cheating from a moralistic aspect to the point that you went on talking crap about women. That's fine....I have done it too. The difference is that you justify when YOU do it. I don't justify it when I did it.

See the difference?

Once again...I personally don't care if you phucked a married woman.

 

[ketostix]

Str8up, I think you should make a new thread about the myth of the single woman. I know you've talked about it before and it was part of the main topic in this thread, but I think it would be better to make a new thread where the focus is on just the myth of the single woman. If you take out the part where you hook up with some married chick maybe your "fans" wouldn't have such an easy target to derail the discussion with. I wouldn't count on it though lol.

 

[Latinoman]

Obviously the most ethical/moral thing to do is to date the single girl, marry her, then have sex with her.

The ETHICAL thing to do (there is not such thing as "more ethical", it is either ethical or is not) is to AVOID married women.

The moral thing to do? Morals are PERSONAL. He will do WHATEVER his morals dictate him to do. We should not preach our morals to anyone.

 

[iqqi]

Sr8up, I think you should make a new thread about the myth of the single woman. I know you've talked about it before and it was part of the main topic in this thread, but I think it would be better to make a new thread where the focus is on just the myth of the single woman....

LOL, so now single women are a myth, too?

 

[Latinoman]

Sr8up, I think you should make a new thread about the myth of the single woman. I know you've talked about it before and it was part of the main topic in this thread, but I think it would be better to make a new thread where the focus is on just the myth of the single woman. If you take out the part where you hook up with some married chick maybe your "fans" would have such an easy target to derail the discussion with. I wouldn't count on it though lol.

I agree.

 

[ketostix]

So, if it's wrong for someone to break a trust bond, does it follow that it's also wrong to be an accomplice to that?

But the trust bond was broken by her before and independently of a willing accomplice. If no guy would boink her until she got a divorce she'd simple get a divorce instead of cheating. Besides just about everyone was an accomplice in this story, both the married women and the single girl were accomplices.

 

[Latinoman]

motives and intentions should play a role in this dont ya think?

your making it seem as if his intentions are to break up this home. apparently this "home" as already been tarnished.

I am not making it seem anything. I have been more than clear. You cannot justify something that is clearly unethical. Finding justifications (like he has done) in order to ustify his behavior is EXACTLY what women do. It is in fact, a woman's characteristic.

Other than that...I don't care if he did it. As it is his prerrogative and his morals.

 

[Latinoman]

I understand that point. You're not the one breaking the trust.

Like you said, you're an accessory to the transgression, like an accomplice to the crime, as it were.

So, if it's wrong for someone to break a trust bond, does it follow that it's also wrong to be an accomplice to that?

The fact that it is unethical in our society (to the point that is grounds enough for a LEGAL divorce) makes it unethical and for that matter wrong.

Should we preach to him our morals and values? Of course not as he has his owns. But he trying to justify his actions on a behavior that is clearly unethical is wrong.

When I did the cheating...I knew I was unethical. Did I sleep at night? Of course...because my morals allowed me to do that.

 

[ketostix]

The ETHICAL thing to do (there is not such thing as "more ethical", it is either ethical or is not) is to AVOID married women.

I disagree that's like saying you should give the death penality to a petty shoplifter and a serial killer because they are both unethical.

The moral thing to do? Morals are PERSONAL. He will do WHATEVER his morals dictate him to do. We should not preach our morals to anyone.

I don't believe morals are are a total independent matter, that's anarchy. I believe what people choose to believe is moral and immoral is a personal decision though. I don't see anything wrong with a little "preaching" if what your preaching is sound and doesn't deteriate into judging or hypocrisy. Latinoman you've seemed to do a lot of preaching in this thread yourself lol.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Sexuality is going to manifest itself. Convictions, circumstance, personal conditions, etc. all modify how it is expressed, but it WILL be expressed. The 400lb. hungry guy is going to eat. He may choose a twinkie and he may choose a celery stalk, but the guy's gonna eat. The devil is in the details, and how we interpret the actions of others is always going to be subject to our own self image, but it doesn't change the fact that the sky is blue and people want to ƒuck.

Think of how different STR8's situation would be perceived if he'd been unaware that the woman was married. He still did exactly the same thing. Because he had foreknowledge we get pissed off that he's not wracked with guilt, but if he hadn't known and later found out we'd call her a slut and tell him not to be so hard on himself.

What if she called him tonight and confessed that she really was single and only told him the story she was married to deter him, but couldn't help herself but ƒuck him that night? Would it be cool then?

You see, people like to think my take on ethics vs nature is all about moral relativism, it's really not. I do think people should strive to "do the right thing", but I also accept that people will ALWAYS be imperfect, particularly when held to the standards that others themselves would compromise under different conditions. That's not a free pass because "biology made you do it", it's just an observation. I think it's more important to deconstruct the reasons why we think something is or isn't moral than to be subjected to it unquestioningly and expect others to get red in the face when we wag our fingers at them.

 

[MacAvoy]

You know, I SERIOUSLY considered leaving out the part where I mentioned that I had sex with this woman, as I knew what it would cause. I threw it in there because it was relevant and I thought that MAYBE I wouldn't get chastised for not "closing the deal". I honestly can't win.

If you didn't include it, it would have turned into another 5 page thread about how your still making the same mistake, not closing the deal. But instead the morality police came out instead of dealing with the real issues in the thread.

I like how my first post (page 3 #52) that didn't deal w/ the sleeping with a married women aspect was conveniently ignored.

 

[cordoncordon]

It's really simple. If str8up hadnt for the past year talked pretty much non stop about how immoral women are these days, then really what could we say? I mean yeah its not something I would do (sleeping with a married woman) but to each his own. But str8up had two themes to all of his posts over the past year, how he hasnt had sex, and people, especially women, who cheat, are losers.

Now he goes and contributes to that very thing he was railing against.

Very hypocritical imo. But i still love ya Str8up . I see a good guy in there somewhere.