Marriage and dating issue - need advice.

[4evehayoung]

Greetings,
I am a new member and have read the Rational Male several months ago. Everything I read in that book confirmed that what I felt what not right with our culture regarding men and women is actually true. I just turned 60 but look and feel 30. I put a high priority on a fit and healthy active lifestyle. I still have hair and an athletic body. I have been married over 20 years and for the most part it has been pretty good. One issue that has been evolving over the last several years is my wife's decreasing interest in sex and willingness to engage. My sex drives have not changed much since I was a young buck so you can figure out easily what the problem is. My wife believes she no longer has to make an effort to look attractive to me, says that I should love her for who she is. Of coarse that's a complete cop out. Long story short she gave me the OK to date and have sex with other woman. That sounds OK on the surface but have you ever tried telling a potential date your married? Most dating sites are for singles only. I own a thriving business and still have a 14 year old son so cruising the night clubs is almost impossible. Just about everything else about our marriage is pretty good and neither of us want to jump at the divorce route. So the question is - Is there any possibility that this arrangement could work? I have my doubts and open for suggestion. If yes, than I could use some advice on going with dating strategies. If no, then is divorce my only option?

 

[The Duke]

First I would start going out solo just to see if your wife changes her tune. If she doesn't then I'd get a sugarbaby and put her up in an apartment.

 

[Spaz]

This is one of many reasons why men should marry younger women.

If you're 60 then ideally the wife should be 40. Sex will still be good.

In your case OP, since the wife has given the go ahead, go get yourself a young single mommy preferably below 30.

I know of some men going through the same shiet as you, they basically got a young single mommy, set up a small business for her (business under the man's name) to keep busy and make some small living. They get to fvck a young pvssy for years with minimum fuss and minimal investment.

Both sides benefits greatly with this arrangement.

 

[lamath]

Greetings,
I am a new member and have read the Rational Male several months ago. Everything I read in that book confirmed that what I felt what not right with our culture regarding men and women is actually true. I just turned 60 but look and feel 30. I put a high priority on a fit and healthy active lifestyle. I still have hair and an athletic body. I have been married over 20 years and for the most part it has been pretty good. One issue that has been evolving over the last several years is my wife's decreasing interest in sex and willingness to engage. My sex drives have not changed much since I was a young buck so you can figure out easily what the problem is. My wife believes she no longer has to make an effort to look attractive to me, says that I should love her for who she is. Of coarse that's a complete cop out. Long story short she gave me the OK to date and have sex with other woman. That sounds OK on the surface but have you ever tried telling a potential date your married? Most dating sites are for singles only. I own a thriving business and still have a 14 year old son so cruising the night clubs is almost impossible. Just about everything else about our marriage is pretty good and neither of us want to jump at the divorce route. So the question is - Is there any possibility that this arrangement could work? I have my doubts and open for suggestion. If yes, than I could use some advice on going with dating strategies. If no, then is divorce my only option?

Im doubting your wife intention here.
I wonder if she says that as a way to test you.

When i told my ex gf of 12y i wanted to break up, she pushed me to act real fast.
To make.me change my mine, but it rurned agaist her because it made it way easier for me to leave.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

First I would start going out solo just to see if your wife changes her tune. If she doesn't then I'd get a sugarbaby and put her up in an apartment.

+1

Not in the mood, LMR, low libido means next!

The same goes for fat.

 

[4evehayoung]

First I would start going out solo just to see if your wife changes her tune. If she doesn't then I'd get a sugarbaby and put her up in an apartment.

Flying solo only lasts so long, had my fill of that. OK for a stopgap. I don't think the surgarbaby idea is practical for me. I'm thinking about finding a few FWBs?

 

[4evehayoung]

This is one of many reasons why men should marry younger women.

If you're 60 then ideally the wife should be 40. Sex will still be good.

In your case OP, since the wife has given the go ahead, go get yourself a young single mommy preferably below 30.

I know of some men going through the same shiet as you, they basically got a young single mommy, set up a small business for her (business under the man's name) to keep busy and make some small living. They get to fvck a young pvssy for years with minimum fuss and minimal investment.

Both sides benefits greatly with this arrangement.

Like what kind of business did these guys go with? It's an interesting idea but seems like a lot of work.

 

[Spaz]

Like what kind of business did these guys go with? It's an interesting idea but seems like a lot of work.

Mostly a small outfit that's easy to macro manage for the man.

7 guys I know sets up a small convenience store in the suburbs.

2 guys sets up a small florist in the city.

1 opened a pet shop in the suburbs.

1 open a chicken farm which I think was stupid but to his logic it's on her land and it's relatively cheap to set up - don't think this relationship will last, he's given over power to her. Well he's about 72 now so maybe that's a factor.

It's all with single mommies. Max is 2 young kids.

 

[4evehayoung]

Don't tell her anything about it.

Considering that:
1)You have a business
2)You have son to raise
3)You have wife and rather nice story (in spite of current problems)

I'd say respect your nest and don't poop into it with any new 'relation****s' - hate to break it for you but at your age, fit or not, you'll be most likely aimed by 40 - 50+ gold diggers. Do you really need that?

I'd opt for a young hookers with a thing for older guys. Just pay them, have a good fun with them and go back to your business.

No one needs to know.

Thanks for the input but not to worry. I've considered all those valid points and come to the same conclusion. I don't need a lot of overhead and I do not intend to screw up what has been a pretty good gig so far. What I need is laid and the hooker idea has crossed my mind as being the most practical in both time and money. I'm not to crazy about the idea because to me sex means more than the physical satisfaction. There is a missing element of the intimacy and emotional satisfaction that's kind of important to me. The excitement of the chase, the conquest, you know - "the thrill of victory" and all that. Plus I am not on the streets to know where the hookers are. Yea I'm 60 but got 20 good years left in me - at least! Today 60 is the new 40 and with the miracle of modern medicine and a healthy life style one could stay pretty active and happy for a long time. What about friends with benefits? 40-50 year old women can look pretty hot if they want to. As long as they act like they can't live without sex, who cares? (or is that only in the movies?) I kind of like the "plate spinning" theory and have a coupe of those kind of relationships. My obstacle is I don't know of a practical way of finding them.

 

[GT40]

Yes. I’d say go out solo. See if she steps up the looks and make up. You need to up
You’re sex rank and show her young ***** is possible.
Be careful on the cheating idea. Get caught and it’s big $$$

 

[4evehayoung]

Well, the whole idea of getting my wife's blessing to let someone else "do the dirty work" so to say, is not to cheat. If there is full disclosure on both ends (letting potential dates know I am married) then there is no cheating and no deception. My question is - Are there woman out there that want a "friends with benefits" type of relationship? And benefits part goes both ways go both ways, not just for me. There is a new concept of "open marriage" I discovered (at least new to me). If my wife has no problem separating sex and love and is happy with every other aspect of our relationship and wants to keep it, then it's her way of expressing her love for me by endorsing my petition for sex from another woman. It's almost like a relieve for her that I'm not constantly hounding her for it any more and it makes her happy. I am having a tough time getting back out there and beating the bushes (no pun intended) looking for women that could appreciate and accept a man in an open type marriage.

 

[AJ84]

I used to think this as well, until I have seen this scenario played out twice now with bad endings.

We like to think that when a woman says to go find sex elsewhere that she really is ok with it.

More often than not they get insecure, but not about the sex. It is about the resources she feels become at risk in the new arrangement.

Inevitably it will get uglier and this is just the first step in that direction.

What I see happening is her eventually cashing in that chip she gave him.
When a wife says she is done with sex. She’s not. She’s just done with sex with her husband.
I would not be surprised if she hooks up with men down the road somewhere herself, or sooner, perhaps she already has someone in mind.
Who knows? Maybe this will transition into something that works well for the marriage. Stranger things have happened.

 

[AJ84]

Likewise not sure of the worth starting the same over with another woman.



Seems well worth a go.



Usually a woman starts making an effort before so. Lines up her ducks and that.

Sounds more like she can't keep up with the old boy.

True it could be that too. Either way he’s got a sweet hall pass lol.

 

[4evehayoung]

Thanks, I really appreciate all the input, it feels good knowing there is a community of like minded people interested in helping me.

This much I am sure of (facts):

She has no desire for sex from another guy.
She has no desire for sex-period.
She will not seek another LTR with another man even without sex.
She intentionally keeps herself unflattering to men as to keep sex out of her life. What I mean by unflattering is: cuts her hair short and leaves it gray, wears loose unflattering clothing, carries some extra weight (not terribly bad but it would not take much for here to have a killer bod), and wears no make up.
She is letting herself get old. Sedentary life style, don't like to play.
She believes that I should just take what she is offering (which now is nothing) and be happy.


What I am not sure of (we plan on talking this weekend about this stuff):

Does she value what we have enough to really be OK with this arrangement in an effort to preserve what we have build for 20 years?
Does she really believe that sex and love are 2 separate things?
Does she really love me enough to let me do this because it will make me happy?
Does she have a desire to make me happy?

You see, I have a very high regard for my right as an American to "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." They are the only God given rights in the Constitution, the others that followed are all in the Bill of rights. My favorite is the "pursuing happiness" part. Our founders thought that much of it as to include it in one of the most influential documents ever written. It changed the coarse of Mankind. We only get one life (at least that's all we're sure of) and I intend on enjoying it. I don't understand how anybody wouldn't. Sex makes me happy, I know it's hard to believe, but it does.

I understand that I do have a lot at stake and the divorce laws are stacked against me. That's one good reason to stay together somehow. Another is the fact that there is a lot that I really am happy with regarding our relationship and what we built together. It's actually very good. I suggested a nuptial agreement that describes our arrangement and that she can not divorce me on the grounds of infidelity. It did throw a curve at her and started second guessing. This weekend my son is away at camp and we are going to discuss the above questions listed and based on those answers I will set my next coarse of action. I have to know for sure if she really is OK with my seeking physically intimate relationships with other women, and if she's not then what? I just spent the last 6 months preparing myself to get back in the game. I was actually getting psyched about getting out there. I checked out several "Dating Coaches" and their web sights. I started flirting and online dating sights, even had a coffee date last week (I totally blew it!). I had to start somewhere and I will certainly do better next time. But at least I am doing it and I'm feeling good about taking action. And so far, enjoying the company, Thanks DJ's.

On aside note - How does one get to be a Master DJ or Senior DJ, or even a DJ?

Best regards,

 

[AJ84]

Thanks, I really appreciate all the input, it feels good knowing there is a community of like minded people interested in helping me.

This much I am sure of (facts):

She has no desire for sex from another guy.
She has no desire for sex-period.
She will not seek another LTR with another man even without sex.
She intentionally keeps herself unflattering to men as to keep sex out of her life. What I mean by unflattering is: cuts her hair short and leaves it gray, wears loose unflattering clothing, carries some extra weight (not terribly bad but it would not take much for here to have a killer bod), and wears no make up.
She is letting herself get old. Sedentary life style, don't like to play.
She believes that I should just take what she is offering (which now is nothing) and be happy.


What I am not sure of (we plan on talking this weekend about this stuff):

Does she value what we have enough to really be OK with this arrangement in an effort to preserve what we have build for 20 years?
Does she really believe that sex and love are 2 separate things?
Does she really love me enough to let me do this because it will make me happy?
Does she have a desire to make me happy?

You see, I have a very high regard for my right as an American to "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." They are the only God given rights in the Constitution, the others that followed are all in the Bill of rights. My favorite is the "pursuing happiness" part. Our founders thought that much of it as to include it in one of the most influential documents ever written. It changed the coarse of Mankind. We only get one life (at least that's all we're sure of) and I intend on enjoying it. I don't understand how anybody wouldn't. Sex makes me happy, I know it's hard to believe, but it does.

I understand that I do have a lot at stake and the divorce laws are stacked against me. That's one good reason to stay together somehow. Another is the fact that there is a lot that I really am happy with regarding our relationship and what we built together. It's actually very good. I suggested a nuptial agreement that describes our arrangement and that she can not divorce me on the grounds of infidelity. It did throw a curve at her and started second guessing. This weekend my son is away at camp and we are going to discuss the above questions listed and based on those answers I will set my next coarse of action. I have to know for sure if she really is OK with my seeking physically intimate relationships with other women, and if she's not then what? I just spent the last 6 months preparing myself to get back in the game. I was actually getting psyched about getting out there. I checked out several "Dating Coaches" and their web sights. I started flirting and online dating sights, even had a coffee date last week (I totally blew it!). I had to start somewhere and I will certainly do better next time. But at least I am doing it and I'm feeling good about taking action. And so far, enjoying the company, Thanks DJ's.

On aside note - How does one get to be a Master DJ or Senior DJ, or even a DJ?

Best regards,

Master, senior, etc relates to the number of posts you make, quantity not quality lol.

Wow, I’m married too and I can’t imagine just giving up on my looks and not giving a f**k about my husband’s needs to the point where I suggest he just sleep with someone else.
What do you think changed for her to lose interest like that? Or was there always a bit of sexual incompatibility?
In any case, kodos for getting out there and having a coffee date even if it didn’t go as you wanted. We have a much younger member here who has been posting for months on getting a date and despite chatting with girls via text can’t even bring himself to make a simple move toward that direction.

 

[lamath]

Thanks, I really appreciate all the input, it feels good knowing there is a community of like minded people interested in helping me.

This much I am sure of (facts):

She has no desire for sex from another guy.
She has no desire for sex-period.
She will not seek another LTR with another man even without sex.
She intentionally keeps herself unflattering to men as to keep sex out of her life. What I mean by unflattering is: cuts her hair short and leaves it gray, wears loose unflattering clothing, carries some extra weight (not terribly bad but it would not take much for here to have a killer bod), and wears no make up.
She is letting herself get old. Sedentary life style, don't like to play.
She believes that I should just take what she is offering (which now is nothing) and be happy.


What I am not sure of (we plan on talking this weekend about this stuff):

Does she value what we have enough to really be OK with this arrangement in an effort to preserve what we have build for 20 years?
Does she really believe that sex and love are 2 separate things?
Does she really love me enough to let me do this because it will make me happy?
Does she have a desire to make me happy?

You see, I have a very high regard for my right as an American to "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." They are the only God given rights in the Constitution, the others that followed are all in the Bill of rights. My favorite is the "pursuing happiness" part. Our founders thought that much of it as to include it in one of the most influential documents ever written. It changed the coarse of Mankind. We only get one life (at least that's all we're sure of) and I intend on enjoying it. I don't understand how anybody wouldn't. Sex makes me happy, I know it's hard to believe, but it does.

I understand that I do have a lot at stake and the divorce laws are stacked against me. That's one good reason to stay together somehow. Another is the fact that there is a lot that I really am happy with regarding our relationship and what we built together. It's actually very good. I suggested a nuptial agreement that describes our arrangement and that she can not divorce me on the grounds of infidelity. It did throw a curve at her and started second guessing. This weekend my son is away at camp and we are going to discuss the above questions listed and based on those answers I will set my next coarse of action. I have to know for sure if she really is OK with my seeking physically intimate relationships with other women, and if she's not then what? I just spent the last 6 months preparing myself to get back in the game. I was actually getting psyched about getting out there. I checked out several "Dating Coaches" and their web sights. I started flirting and online dating sights, even had a coffee date last week (I totally blew it!). I had to start somewhere and I will certainly do better next time. But at least I am doing it and I'm feeling good about taking action. And so far, enjoying the company, Thanks DJ's.

On aside note - How does one get to be a Master DJ or Senior DJ, or even a DJ?

Best regards,

You have big relationship problem
Have a the talk with her but i think this will end up bad.
If i where you start to find way to protect myself incase of a divorce and im not saying making her signs paper letting you hooking up with other women. Id go see a lawyer, hope for the best but plan for the worst.

The description you made about your wife is making me wonder is she adding value, contributing anything to your lifestyle.
She seems unmotivated, boring and lazy.



I was somehow in a similar situation 12 years with same women
2 young girls, no sex for 1+ year, she let herself go gain 100lb ez , bad mood, bad lifestyle etc.....she was draining all my willpower and drive.

Took me a very long time to finally decide that this was not the way i wanted to live, i was never 100% sure that leaving was the right thing until i left
Now from a more neutral perspective i wonder why i was not seeing all the things that where bad/unfixable with our relationship.
I now see that i let some bad relationship dynamic establish themself and i was taking the ez way out instead of fixing things right away.

Think deeply about your relationship and try to see it from a more neutral point of view.
Maybe things are fixable, but i dont believe that leting you date is going to fix the problem


Gl sir

 

[Von]

You have big relationship problem
Have a the talk with her but i think this will end up bad.
If i where you start to find way to protect myself incase of a divorce and im not saying making her signs paper letting you hooking up with other women. Id go see a lawyer, hope for the best but plan for the worst.

The description you made about your wife is making me wonder is she adding value, contributing anything to your lifestyle.
She seems unmotivated, boring and lazy.



I was somehow in a similar situation 12 years with same women
2 young girls, no sex for 1+ year, she let herself go gain 100lb ez , bad mood, bad lifestyle etc.....she was draining all my willpower and drive.

Took me a very long time to finally decide that this was not the way i wanted to live, i was never 100% sure that leaving was the right thing until i left
Now from a more neutral perspective i wonder why i was not seeing all the things that where bad/unfixable with our relationship.
I now see that i let some bad relationship dynamic establish themself and i was taking the ez way out instead of fixing things right away.

Think deeply about your relationship and try to see it from a more neutral point of view.
Maybe things are fixable, but i dont believe that leting you date is going to fix the problem


Gl sir

The OP Girl sounds depressed. Find what made her depressed, solve it, she might get back on track.

It could be a post-menopause etc.. Work? She's blaming herself for something? Maybe she cheated and has a hard time dealing with it? ETc...

What you described reminds me of ME in my previous LTR where I got depressed cause the LTR was bad and work was hard.

A prenup - living together arrangement validated by a lawyer could ''help'' and protect you in the life style choices that will follow... since she ''legally'' agreed to the ''outside dating''

 

[Desdinova]

NEVER take a woman's words at face value. They live in the moment of their emotions. She wasnt in the mood for sex on the day she gave you the blessing to find a mistress. Do you really think that a woman who has invested a significant amount of time and energy into a relationship is going to feel NOTHING when you head out to fvck a hotter broad?

The day you head out for sex from someone else is the day that your marriage is going to get difficult

 

[lamath]

NEVER take a woman's words at face value. They live in the moment of their emotions. She wasnt in the mood for sex on the day she gave you the blessing to find a mistress. Do you really think that a woman who has invested a significant amount of time and energy into a relationship is going to feel NOTHING when you head out to fvck a hotter broad?

The day you head out for sex from someone else is the day that your marriage is going to get difficult

Wise word

 

[4evehayoung]

Wise word

The answer to your question is I do not know how she is going to feel. That is why I am discussing this with her this weekend. She started having second thoughts when I brought up the nuptial agreement idea. I fully understand what lamath and Desdinova's are saying and they are wise words indeed. I really appreciate the advice. The fact is my marriage is somewhat difficult now and I am trying to change that now. I feel good about taking action instead of sitting around moaning about it. George Patton said "A good plan acted upon now is better than a perfect plan later." I am trying to be as careful as I can because there is a lot at stake. What's the saying - "It's cheaper to keeper 'er" ? I have seen it happen more than once. It may be cheaper but I'm not happy. What is the price for that?