Looks are more important than you think! Merged [Official thread]

[wayword]

The quote in your sig is interesting, Wayword. Do you think that these women would be so eager to detach themselves from the "faithful loser" if he looked like Antonio Banderas? Want to share a successful man if he looked like Bill Gates? So if you're saying that they WOULD, that it would be a coincidence? The guys on your side are arguing that such a scenario would never happen, due to the fact that good-looking women would never be seen with good-looking men.

Help me understand your viewpoint on this, because your stance of "looks matter" and your signature seems contradictory to me.

Well, who says women measure "success" and "failure" by career/wealth only? There's essentially 2 mating strategies - provider (longterm K) vs stud (shortterm r). And that resource-based criteria applies more for women in a provider society, but not a stud soceity. We are now more of a "stud" society due to LBJ's Great Society welfare policies, higher quota-driven female wages and cultural Africanization. Women are already provided for by the state if necessary, so don't need that in a mate. That is why 40% of all American babies are now born to single moms (and 70% of Black ones).

The new breed of women who is fully provided for by our social system can thus select mates based sheerly upon genetic fitness/success - ie "looks," regardless of his resources. Just look at Britney Spears and K-Fed. She arguably had her pick of the litter, yet dated waaaayyyy down financially...in favor of looks. In her eyes, Bill Gates is still a geeky loser and K-Fed a cool winner - based upon genetics, not resources.

And did she share him with his baby mama at the time - Shar Jackson (who has 4 kids w/2 dads) - HELL YEA! Who also still wouldn't mind having him back!

 

[L777]

I was out with 6 other guy friends the other night and realized that the only 2 guys who brought gf's...were also also arguably the 2 best-looking guys...

Coincidence? I think not...

Oh gimme a break...maybe the other guys were don juans and didn't want g/fs....I know I don't.

Plus you can't base "fact" on a sample of 6 ppl...

Give some sort of reasoned arguement or don't bother contributing

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...The new breed of women who is fully provided for by our social system can thus select mates based sheerly upon genetic fitness/success - ie "looks," regardless of his resources. Just look at Britney Spears and K-Fed. She arguably had her pick of the litter, yet dated waaaayyyy down financially...in favor of looks. In her eyes, Bill Gates is still a geeky loser and K-Fed a cool winner - based upon genetics, not resources.

And did she share him with his baby mama at the time - Shar Jackson (who has 4 kids w/2 dads) - HELL YEA! Who also still wouldn't mind having him back!

So K-Fed is a known two time looser on the relationship tip. Shar doesn't want him back, Brittney doesn't look as if she's crushed.

Now consider Bill Gates who is still married. Before you jump on the money tip, if his wife ever decided to divorce she'd get more than an substantial share of a sizable fortune. So what if it's only few hundred million. You'd think that K-Fed would have gotten his act together for the money.

What I'm coming to believe is that looks are more important to those who may not have more to offer. I not speaking for anyone else but I wouldn't want to be with anyone who be with me just for my looks without appreciating everything else I have to offer. She could be the most beautiful woman in the world in my eyes but my attraction to her would be short lived once I realize that my looks was the only thing she was attracted to.

 

[wayword]

So K-Fed is a known two time looser on the relationship tip. Shar doesn't want him back, Brittney doesn't look as if she's crushed.

Lol, how is he a loser? Britney gave him millions in allowance. He bought a Lamborghini. Recorded a crappy CD - paid for by Britney, I'm sure. He totally tooled both byches.

And yet each of them purposely got knocked up by him...twice.

Again, actions speak louder than words...Britney gave him lots of money and had his kids. In other words, she worshipped him and he PWNED her. When you can have a multi-millionaire celebrity woman support you and your kids...while you go off partying every night...you let me know.

I just can't wait to see how much of her money he gets in their divorce... :crackup:

You have to realize that we're in the endtimes, and all wrongs becomes rights in the endtimes...

But know this, that in the last days grievous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, railers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, implacable, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, no lovers of good, traitors, headstrong, puffed up, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God; holding a form of godliness, but having denied the power therefore. From these also turn away. For of these are they that creep into houses, and take captive silly women laden with sins, led away by divers lusts

Good men are unfashionable now. Bad men are in.

 

[sexual_intellectual]

So K-Fed is a known two time looser on the relationship tip. Shar doesn't want him back, Brittney doesn't look as if she's crushed.

Now consider Bill Gates who is still married. Before you jump on the money tip, if his wife ever decided to divorce she'd get more than an substantial share of a sizable fortune. So what if it's only few hundred million. You'd think that K-Fed would have gotten his act together for the money.

What I'm coming to believe is that looks are more important to those who may not have more to offer.

Up to here you were speaking about looks being more important than you think. I'd say your point is that not looking attractive can be compensated for by your becoming attractive by other means. I'll address that in a moment.

I not speaking for anyone else but I wouldn't want to be with anyone who be with me just for my looks without appreciating everything else I have to offer. She could be the most beautiful woman in the world in my eyes but my attraction to her would be short lived once I realize that my looks was the only thing she was attracted to.

This paragraph far more directly relates to the question "what makes a woman that is attracted to me interesting to me" than "how important are looks to creating attraction in a woman."

As far as attracting women goes, my recent experiences go like this:

Early this year, I spent a couple of weeks on holiday with a group of people (there were something like 15 of us, including 2 single and attractive girls I didn't previously know and some good friends) got to know pretty much everyone there pretty well.

I wasn't looking my best - had scruffy hair, didn't take my best clothes with me, and was skinnier (gone from 10-12 stone since then) I had serious social proof including with the other girls. When I'm hanging with this circle of friends back home, I naturally dominate, and I get plenty of attention for the girls in the group, both the single and the taken.

This time round, one of the guys who came along I didn't know was on his game. Would have to say he beat me into second place in terms of attention from the new girls in the group. This despite me being obviously more witty, successful than him, and having better social proof - but as for charm and charisma, it was probably a dead heat.

As the second week started, and I got to know the new girls more, I won their respect as a man, and things slowly started to change. It was like - the other guy would still get more attention, but I'd get more quality attention. They sat next to him more, but when they sat next to me, they'd sit closer. They'd flirt with him too, but were closer to the edge with me. One of them said something to me like they could never be with the other guy, cos he wasn't intelligent enough for them.

Maybe it was all to make him feel jealous, and to play for my attention - guess I'll never know for sure - but I'm in touch with most people from that holiday - and both the girls have seen me since, and he hasn't seen either of them. Again, you could say that could be because he has options? None of us did anything with the girls in our group - we were too busy out trying to get other girls in the clubs!!

When I saw them back home, a little bulkier, my hair looking good and my confidence up more recently - we had some fun

So I've concluded:

A man of substance will beat a better looking man where a quality woman is concerned IF:

- the better looking man is of insufficient substance to maintain the woman's interest; AND
- the man of substance looks good enough to arouse a basic level of interest in the woman.

I appreciate that this is not rocket science Fran - but what do you think of it - do you disagree with my conclusion? If so, at which points?

 

[Aprenti$playa&pimp]

1) No reason to be scared, as there were no threats made. Relax.
2) The last person to make the stock virgin declaration was Skip...who got banned. Check a few pages back for my response.
3) I get the time during downtime at work. So in effect, I get paid to debate the importance of looks.
4) You know how I know you're a troll? Check this out.

Seriously, Deus said it pretty well. Lyle Lovett never deserved a HB like julia, i would give my right nut for one night with that red beauty

You said that four days ago. You don't go from total support to personal attacks in that short of a time period unless you are a troll, or bipolar. Considering bipolarism is a fairly rare disorder, I'm going to have to go ahead and go with the former. Thanks for playing.

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Deus:2 Hop_On:0

Seriously though, this argument is getting a little too crass, and it's gotten to the point where I'm not even sure who's on which side anymore... and did anybody read my post like the ONLY one I had a page a two ago in this thread?

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

A woman's perception of a man's personality will almost always influence her perception of how handsome that man is in her eyes. A guy with charisma, personality and substance will have more influence than a guy that's an ass.

There are basically three types of men who become attractive to a woman once they meet, those who are sincere and/or charming and charismatic, those who have the mystique of being well-grounded and who has self control and/or indifference, and the stereotypical bad boy who make women curious about their own unexplored fantasies; the guys who tempts a woman with the possibility of excitement to break out of the life that she has created for herself.

Women are driven by their emotions and looks alone can barely scratch the surface of what women desire. Many men on the other hand are simple enough to be satisfied by looks alone (at least until they learn the hard way that looks aren't everything).

It's proven in this forum every day, guys post about hooking up with less than stable women all the time, was it their personality that attracted them? No, that hooked up with these women solely on looks and the fact that these women gave them the time of day.

Women on the other hand will rebuff a physically attractive man as easily as any other guy if anything about him turns her off. His voice, his attire, his friends and countless other things.

I'm sticking to the premise that someone said earlier that the people who believe that looks is the most importing thing that women look for either have nothing else to offer women or are unattractive and are using this as an excuse for their lack of success (probably because they have nothing else to offer) and that if that was true I wonder why the hell are they in this forum; are they hoping to find a plastic surgeon here that will give them a deal on an extreme makeover?

 

[Ripper]

:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

 

[Holland]

by the way- way to equate people who speak "ebonics" with "felons"...now who is the biggot?

Idiot.
He dissed you. That mean he made a fool of you and wasn't being serieus. Yet you we're reacting serieusly to the content of his post. What a tool you are.

This is great

Keep 'em coming, Deus ex

 

[Aprenti$playa&pimp]

Deus ex is winning by a loooooong shot. Can't you see he's just mocking you and you're falling for it big-time? What are you, an e-thug? Each angry pumped up post you makes you look more and more like... listen to Wierd Al "White & Nerdy" and you might understand. It's like you're trying to terrorize the net with bad grammar.

If you get this pissed off arguing with some guy over the internet, I can just imagine how you get with women, they take the games he's using on you and drive it to a whole new level. Want to know where he beat you?

Strike 1:

Oh, and Hop/Biatch...props to you. I don't know how you're getting away with such blatant trolling, but whatever you're doing to stay under the radar, you're doing a damn good job. Don't worry, I won't report your posts.

Strike 2:

You know, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you aren't a troll after all. You do sound very much like quite a few felons that I've met in my lifetime, so perhaps you are the real deal. You got the ebonics down, along with the anti-gay slurs, and you quote Pulp Fiction. Although, mentioning "thoughtful discussion" and "chicken-banger" in the same sentence was a masterpiece that the average thug probably wouldn't be able to pull off...so kudos to you on that one.

Strike 3:

You know how I know you're a troll? Check this out.

Seriously, Deus said it pretty well. Lyle Lovett never deserved a HB like julia, i would give my right nut for one night with that red beauty

You said that four days ago. You don't go from total support to personal attacks in that short of a time period unless you are a troll, or bipolar. Considering bipolarism is a fairly rare disorder, I'm going to have to go ahead and go with the former. Thanks for playing.

There's no need for him to pitch anymore fireballs, he's struck you out. Please don't go throwing the bat and *****ing at other players or the umpire, that's just bad sportsmanship. Which shows lack of maturity, with that lack of credibility, and then finally lack of respect.

 

[comic_relief]

this post should just be deleted and started over. It is just giant flame wars over and over again. Skip first, then Hop/biatch.

This is pathetic and a waste of bandspace.

comic_relief

 

[NorPacWolf]

I agree with the poster above. Not a single FR to back up any of the statements. KJ drivel up and down. Mods, lock this thread forever, and make sure anyone who dares to post a thread about "looks" again posts a picture and/or FR's to back up their claims.


Wolf

 

[Aprenti$playa&pimp]

there were a few people who came up with good (reliable) resources. Again, few. Although some (including myself) didn't provide an exact link, I'll admit, I'm almost positive I was specific enough to the point that a person could find exactly what I was talking about with a simple google search.

 

[DEUS EX PIAN0FORTE]

Haha...gee, thanks for deleting his posts, mods. Now it looks like I'm some fruitcake talking to myself. It's deja vu all over again.

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

Honestly, dude...this is the only portion of your post that I'm going to respond to. Your posts are not easy to read at all due to your unnecessarily long-winded macho bravado, and your complete lack of succinctness. I can't do this whole "tear-down-your-post-point-by-point" thing with you anymore. At least Skip had the common courtesy to be wrong in a few paragraphs.

So anyway. Show me the quote where I said that looks don't mean s'hit to men. Your credibility rests on this one quote, so look hard.

On a sidenote...why didn't you ever explain why you spelled "rebut" with two T's, and declared that you spelled it with one in the same sentence? That was pretty odd, bro.

this proves your delusional. no wonder your posts dont make sense. I cant beleive you forgot one of your own points and are asking me to show you one of your own posts. damn!

Interesting how you didnt bother to rebut a very strong point I made in my last post (if anything, that would be what you should be rebuting), I also noticed how no one else on yourside of the argument bothered to rebut it either. you know, the point about how its clear hot women are shallow, and that this observation gives the "looks theory" alot of weight and makes your "looks dont matter theory" very lightweight. lol.

yeah, Im right. :yes: please step out of denial people!!!!

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

It is the shallowness of good looking women that gives the looks theory a lot of weight! . Whats the shallowness Im talking about? well heres some examples:

-I knew a girl from HS that was good looking, and she would not date a guy unless he had a 6 pack. she just would not do it, she was so snotty about it. if the guy had no 6 pack, he didnt stand a chance. And your probably wondering how she would find this thing out? well, usually if a guy did have one, he would always find a way to conventiently show it off to her, ie. take your shirt off becuase your hot, or pull the bottom of your shirt up to wipe you face because your hot outside (which exposes the stomach). you know how some guys just have ot show off. If this isnt shallow, I dont know what is.

-I see it all too often, some guy who clearly has game (a smooth talker, one of those player type guys who I would have expected to get the girl) hitting on a hot chick, always up on her, being touchy, flirty, and the girl just sits there and acts cool and indifferent, then when he leaves, she startes talking with her friends about him: its clear she doesnt like him the way she makes a snarl and a barf expression on her face and even comments on his looks, flat out saying somethin along the lines of "ewww, hes soo ugly".

-Discussion with hot women on the topic, Ive been told many times by good looking women that they "just cant live withthemselves" dating a guy who they dont think is good looking. literally told me they would kill themselves if they dated a guy they didnt think was hot. yes, shallow, I know.

-Ive asked good looking women what they look for in a guy, an answer I often get really bluntly: "um, good looking guys". yep, shallow. why not an answer like "a guy with a good personality".

-Women at clubs will refuse to dance with a guy if he aint good looking to her. come on, its just a dance! imagine how resistant they will be when it comes to sex and dating with a guy thats not hot. clubs clearly demonstrate the shallowness in good looking women.

Theres so many more examples that demonstrate that hot women are shallow that I cant think of right at the moment. But the fact is that I would find it hard to beleive that good looking women will be so shallow if looks didnt matter; I just wouldnt expect to be seeing this if the "looks dont matter" were true. but if looks did matter, I totally would expect to be seeing this kind of behavior. again, this observation just really tips the weight in the "looks theory" 's favor. I mean, hello! :wave:

This was a very good point I braught up in a backpost, but since people are ignoring it, and not recognizing it's validity, Im going to repost it. hot women are shallow, this observation is evidence FOR the looks theory, it cannot be ignored if we are going to discuss truth here about women placing importance on looks!

people just will not be shallow about looks if they dont require it. we see hot women are shallow about it, so....

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

I agree with the poster above. Not a single FR to back up any of the statements. KJ drivel up and down. Mods, lock this thread forever, and make sure anyone who dares to post a thread about "looks" again posts a picture and/or FR's to back up their claims.


Wolf

oh, so you think Im just KJing about women being shallow? that was one of my points that are evidence for the looks theory.

So you think Im just all delusional about hot women being shallow? DO I really need to post some kind of empirical evidence to prove women are shallow? I already posted some real life examples Ive experienced that point it out, that is my evidence, thats my FR backup. recognize it!

If you dont like this thread, dont read it, no body is forcing you to click and read, helloo!!

 

[The Realest Thing]

the only way you will generate any attraction in a cold approach environment (aka the woman does not know how rich you are or how high status you are), IS through looks and looks only. So, if you are going out and trying to hit on random chicks, you better believe it that your looks play a 99% role of importance in every random chick you hit on wanting to talk to you or not.

Yes, if you sound like a creep, your looks won't help much. However if you sound normal and she thinks you are hot, you are gauranteed 100% in and can seal the deal.

All these stupid examples about ugly guys getting with hot girls - they have nothing to do with the point being made. I understand that a guy who is a 5 can land a girl who is a 9 IF and only IF she knows OF HIM before they ever talk (aka he is mr. popular, or mr. millionaire, or he is in a really good rock group and she loves all their songs). In these cases, she already is into the man no matter how bad his looks are, EXCEPT IT IS NOT A SEXUAL ATTRACTION. It is only a materialistic attraction.

To generate a purely sexual attraction within a woman and a desire to be ****ed, one needs to be as hot as possible in the eyes of the woman he is trying to generate that attraction in.

 

[The Realest Thing]

also I assure you (personal experience), that if you walk up to a girl at the mall or at the club, and the thought in her mind is (OMG OMG he is sooo ****in hot), then you can and will melt her with a simple "hello, what's your name? Nice to meet you, let’s hang out sometime, what’s your #?”……when that train of thought is going through a girl’s mind and all you say to her is what I just wrote, then you are 100 times better off as opposed to a girl who sees a random guy walk up to her whos thinking “umm ok what does he want?”

You people seeing my point?? The better looking a random girl thinks you are, the smoother an interaction you will have with her because her initial interest will be higher the better looking she thinks you are

 

[Aprenti$playa&pimp]

OK... All I have to say is that National Geographic's "Naked Science" Department reported that men and women are sexually aroused in very different ways. They studied men, specifically on the functions of their brain, and found that arousal in men is almost strictly limited to the part of the brain that deals with the senses, majority of it being the part for sight. However, in women it was discovered that sexual arousal has more to do with the part of the brain that deals with MEMORY. Meaning, things that you do, hence personality.


But fact of the matter is, this is NOT everything. David Deangelo's Double Your Dating E-book says that ALL Women are attracted to:
-Money
-Looks
-Power
-Height (haha lucky me, I'm 6 foot 7 and still very young!)
-Personality

Now, while initially the first three have the biggest influence in the first place, and all but one are out of your immediate control, how it supposedly goes is that as long as you're not completely butt-ugly (the only COMPLETELY uncontrollable aspect of looks) you can always improve yourself in all the others to a point where your "hotness" score increases. In fact, I believe Power Money Looks and Personality all have influence on each other anyways. Your personality influences your sense of style (looks) what job & work ethic you have (money) and what kind of influence you have on others (power).

In return these can help boost your personality to a higher, more masculine level. When you look good, you feel more confident. When you know you have great influence over people, you're naturally more assertive, yet more patient because you know you get what you want. If you're good on funds you are more confident and also more free-spirited because you know you can do what you want.

The truth is, YES, LOOKS DO MATTER!!! ALOT!!! But the key s remembering that not THE MOST IMPORTANT THING! As long as you don't look like an Afghan hermit or a mongolian priest or something, a great personality can get you pretty damn far in this world. The only time looks don't matter at all is if you're rich and powerful. Case in Point, Jermaine Dupri(or JD), a famous rapper and the producer of the "So So Def" Record Label.

All I got to say on the matter. Even a few good references.

Basically, this argument is on two extreme sides. One says looks are everything to women. WRONG. One says looks are nothing to women. Couldn't be further from the truth! But are looks important at all? HELL YEAH they are!