Let's Change The World. Seriously.

[justaroundthecorner]

Tbh large amounts of advice posted on this forum is terribly outdated (PUAs era advice leads to uphill battles in dating in the era of superficial apps where suddenly height, looks & money are much more important than 20 years ago).

I get that whiners are annoying but before I met my wife I was rather actively dating between 2005 and 2020 and despite better looks, earning money and being (arguably) in my prime since 2018 I had much more issues with creating attraction with same height female in 2018 than in 2005 - I didn't even think at that time that being same height is the issue.

In current dating world top 5% males in SMV may sleep with MUCH more females than they could in 2005 due to much better networking via social media while average guy has it the other way around.

Therefore it would be logical for forum to update it's knowledge and scope of advice - "hit the gym" is fine but not necessarily the must - my guess would be to concentrate on being authentic best version of yourself i.e. if you love reading, show it on social media. If you love doing photos - show it as well. Get some hobbies that are both interesting and match your personality.

I think that instead of banning users, forum should change. Picking up got much more brutal and difficult than it was 20 years ago (even nice guys had a chance to pick up women too at that time). Now social media and TV promote poor archetypes when it comes to men (mostly tattooed bad boys with issues and troublesome personality) and it is confusing for average Joe's as well, as the "incellization" of male society is speeding up.

Therefore, not to offend anybody, but most of 40+ users of this forums may simply not get what younger guys are facing right now. The perceived abundance of choice via dating apps and social media for normal guys is an illusion. It is the other way around.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Tbh large amounts of advice posted on this forum is terribly outdated (PUAs era advice leads to uphill battles in dating in the era of superficial apps where suddenly height, looks & money are much more important than 20 years ago).

I get that whiners are annoying but before I met my wife I was rather actively dating between 2005 and 2020 and despite better looks, earning money and being (arguably) in my prime since 2018 I had much more issues with creating attraction with same height female in 2018 than in 2005 - I didn't even think at that time that being same height is the issue.

In current dating world top 5% males in SMV may sleep with MUCH more females than they could in 2005 due to much better networking via social media while average guy has it the other way around.

Therefore it would be logical for forum to update it's knowledge and scope of advice - "hit the gym" is fine but not necessarily the must - my guess would be to concentrate on being authentic best version of yourself i.e. if you love reading, show it on social media. If you love doing photos - show it as well. Get some hobbies that are both interesting and match your personality.

I think that instead of banning users, forum should change. Picking up got much more brutal and difficult than it was 20 years ago (even nice guys had a chance to pick up women too at that time). Now social media and TV promote poor archetypes when it comes to men (mostly tattooed bad boys with issues and troublesome personality) and it is confusing for average Joe's as well, as the "incellization" of male society is speeding up.

Therefore, not to offend anybody, but most of 40+ users of this forums may simply not get what younger guys are facing right now. The perceived abundance of choice via dating apps and social media for normal guys is an illusion. It is the other way around.

Successfully building attraction is similar to martial arts which are actually effective for self-defense/combat: There are many "systems", yet they're more similar than different, for the simple fact that there are only so many ways to crack someone's wind pipe in half, or rip an eyeball out of someone's head

Much of Red Pill Thought, by contrast, is akin to Wushu... Flashy and fun to look at, yet ultimately nonsensical in most respects

 

[Vanderdonck]

Tbh large amounts of advice posted on this forum is terribly outdated (PUAs era advice leads to uphill battles in dating in the era of superficial apps where suddenly height, looks & money are much more important than 20 years ago).

I get that whiners are annoying but before I met my wife I was rather actively dating between 2005 and 2020 and despite better looks, earning money and being (arguably) in my prime since 2018 I had much more issues with creating attraction with same height female in 2018 than in 2005 - I didn't even think at that time that being same height is the issue.

In current dating world top 5% males in SMV may sleep with MUCH more females than they could in 2005 due to much better networking via social media while average guy has it the other way around.

Therefore it would be logical for forum to update it's knowledge and scope of advice - "hit the gym" is fine but not necessarily the must - my guess would be to concentrate on being authentic best version of yourself i.e. if you love reading, show it on social media. If you love doing photos - show it as well. Get some hobbies that are both interesting and match your personality.

I think that instead of banning users, forum should change. Picking up got much more brutal and difficult than it was 20 years ago (even nice guys had a chance to pick up women too at that time). Now social media and TV promote poor archetypes when it comes to men (mostly tattooed bad boys with issues and troublesome personality) and it is confusing for average Joe's as well, as the "incellization" of male society is speeding up.

Therefore, not to offend anybody, but most of 40+ users of this forums may simply not get what younger guys are facing right now. The perceived abundance of choice via dating apps and social media for normal guys is an illusion. It is the other way around.

You make a good point.

People said the same on this forum 25 years ago too.

The truth is very little changes. And to the extent that it does, people here are good at adapting and dispensing with fresh advice. Younger users are probably better at offering fresh perspectives on tech and application while older users generally have more timeless wisdom to share.

The point is not to ban people or sh*t on different opinions. It's that whatever advice is offered that users be taking it and applying it. It is 100% up to the individual to accept or reject other opinions.

Spending excess bandwidth on this forum just to offer the same defeatist counterpoints and excuses rather than taking action is just wasting everyone's time and dragging the forum down. It's mostly our fault for feeding trolls. I'm all for variety of opinion but the creepy black pill / incel stuff doesn't really have a place here. And yes, some of it IS creepy. I'd link a couple here but don't want to be a bully. Besides that, posting for advice and then rejecting the advice repeatedly is not the worst thing but I think we all have to learn to stop arguing with people like that and let them be.

 

[Gamisch]

Tbh large amounts of advice posted on this forum is terribly outdated (PUAs era advice leads to uphill battles in dating in the era of superficial apps where suddenly height, looks & money are much more important than 20 years ago).

I get that whiners are annoying but before I met my wife I was rather actively dating between 2005 and 2020 and despite better looks, earning money and being (arguably) in my prime since 2018 I had much more issues with creating attraction with same height female in 2018 than in 2005 - I didn't even think at that time that being same height is the issue.

In current dating world top 5% males in SMV may sleep with MUCH more females than they could in 2005 due to much better networking via social media while average guy has it the other way around.

Therefore it would be logical for forum to update it's knowledge and scope of advice - "hit the gym" is fine but not necessarily the must - my guess would be to concentrate on being authentic best version of yourself i.e. if you love reading, show it on social media. If you love doing photos - show it as well. Get some hobbies that are both interesting and match your personality.

I think that instead of banning users, forum should change. Picking up got much more brutal and difficult than it was 20 years ago (even nice guys had a chance to pick up women too at that time). Now social media and TV promote poor archetypes when it comes to men (mostly tattooed bad boys with issues and troublesome personality) and it is confusing for average Joe's as well, as the "incellization" of male society is speeding up.

Therefore, not to offend anybody, but most of 40+ users of this forums may simply not get what younger guys are facing right now. The perceived abundance of choice via dating apps and social media for normal guys is an illusion. It is the other way around.

Imo you show exactly where and why it's difficult for (young)men:


"In current dating world top 5% males in SMV may sleep with MUCH more females than they could in 2005 due to much better networking via social media while average guy has it the other way around."

"Therefore it would be logical for forum to update it's knowledge and scope of advice - "hit the gym" is fine but not necessarily the must - my guess would be to concentrate on being authentic best version of yourself i.e. if you love reading, show it on social media. If you love doing photos - show it as well. Get some hobbies that are both interesting and match your personality."

This is contradictory advice that apparently now 80% of users throw around. That 5 % is the new norm. That means that EVERY man MUST try to be as close to that 5% in order to maximise his chances.

The idea to just display your hobbies and "be your authentic self" on the other hand is advice that might've worked 20 years ago. Nowadays you can be attractive, say as less as possible and still be on the winning side.

Everyone is his authentic self by default. But you gotta be the best version of your authentic self. Your authentic self in top shape, with some cash to spare and a sense of how to treat a lady.

The gym. Two words but yet takes a lifetime of effort and knowledge updates to actually be successful at it. IIt's ike trying to build a house. First you'll need a solid foundation. The foundation nowadays is : physical , financial , spiritual, emotional, stylistic. The gym is an ABSOLUTE must. Just like the other things I've mentioned.

If a man manages to control those aspects he will be closer to his goal of getting women than when he counts on his " authentic self " to be successful , especially when he LACKS succes.

 

[Swagman]

This is a really good thread, excellent contributions by too many people to name. RP is a rabbit hole that can suck you in and convince you that everything that frustrates you is someone else's fault, and that if the world was just like the 1950s fantasy that never actually existed then you'd have a problem free life. It will also turn you into someone that hates women, and women can smell this on a man from across a football field. Genuinely liking women plays a huge role in how successful you are with them - same with anyone really. More broadly, if you're a misanthrope you probably won't make too many friends.

I'm starting to get out there and meet girls again after being hitched for over a decade. I assumed all the talk about dating being harder now was overblown but no - it really is much, MUCH harder than it was before, for reasons that have to do with me as well as changes in how people date. But you know what, I have one life to live and I'm not gonna fritter it away getting upset about things I can't control, I'm gonna work with what I have and make the best of whatever situation I find myself in. If the choice is to be a field agent or an analyst, I'm choosing to work in the field.

When I'm at the gym it's never the super jacked or ultra athletic guys that impress me the most, it's the overweight and out of shape people who turn up day in day out and get after it. Being new here I would hope to see the same thing here, if a guy turns up and he's 45, out of shape, unable to get women etc, this is fine provided he's making moves to improve things. I have zero time for anyone in that situation that just wants to come to a forum and complain about how their situation is someone else's fault.

 

[BaronOfHair]

People said the same on this forum 25 years ago too

Analogize many self-identified Red Pillers to "leadership lessons" from Jocko Willinik* and his fellow SOF-bros. Alot of it ain't "bad"... It's also not especially original, often shallow, and it's packaging is what draws consumers in, more so than the content itself




*Long before Willinik, Richard Marcincko was "educating" CEOs on how to lead like a SEAL. As as been pointed out here at SS, Tom Leykis was preaching yet not practicing(He married and divorced four times during his career, all while he was steering his congregation towards taking vows of bachleorhood)Red Pill Gospel, back in The 80s and 90s

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

There needs to be a positive but no bull attitude here. It is important to offer encouragement and constructive advice here; especially road tested ways of becoming (not parroting some used PUA lines and being a dweeb with fake swagger) a better and more confident and more self aware man. To get comfortable enough in your own skin to the point that you are internally, rather than externally validated, where you can see people, the world, and yourself with a no give a shjt and no fvcks given way and yet still see the humor and absurdity and irony in the landscape around us.

I think it detracts from the forum when people complain consistently in the face of solid practical advice. That serves no one and encourages more attention seeking behavior from the chronic learned helplessness complainers.

I think it detracts from the forum similarly when a single poster makes a dozen or dozens of threads asking relatively inane questions too. Nobody looking for value here wants to read bloviating and rhetoric that reads like "stream of consciousness" type rhetorical questions just like nobody wants to read excuses or complaints. This is another form of attention seeking behavior.

The two above types of attention seeking bury or otherwise snuff out/drown out quality content. The result is an echo chamber that runs people off.

There are many readers who lurk but do not actively post. There are people who read actively seeking something to apply to his own life. The forum needs to encourage that in my view and discourage the content hogs making a hundred threads or writing the same excuses ad nauseum.

I am female as many know. But I try to offer a sensible perspective that arises out of my own personal experience as well as the experiences of men I know personally who are successful or extremely successful with women. I provide context to assist with understanding the nuance inherent in inter personal interactions.....and I try to help men grasp how they may be percieved by attractive women - because I've been an attractive woman all my life.

My children are Gen Z. They are either actively or recently in the singles/dating landscape. I think dating has changed in the younger generations to some degree because people are more lazy (prefer online to in person interactions) and have not learned basic social/conversational skills because of heavy dependence on electronic means of communication rather than actual face to face interactions.

Humans as a species are not that much different behaviorally. Not in eons. But electronic media has created access that is sorting people into a bell curve in an accelerated and skewed manner. Fewer people gain really wide appeal, many are in the unseen majority. And people are seeking the dopamine rush of attention online in various formats rather than leaving the house because of lazy inertia in many instances.

If you leave the house and go interact socially in real life that is a more advanced social skillset than being a keyboard jockey. It requires some effort at presenting yourself well. It is also a dose of reality about relative value in the SMP. The market does not lie to a person the way a person can lie to himself or herself. The venues and concerts and restaurants and universities and high schools and sporting events and other target rich environments around me are not so different than they have always been.

So we are back to self improvement, internal validation and amused mastery: all timeless things everyone should strive toward.

But you must leave the house and be right with yourself to interact well in those environments.

 

[BaronOfHair]

My children are Gen Z. They are either actively or recently in the singles/dating landscape. I think dating has changed in the younger generations to some degree because people are more lazy (prefer online to in person interactions) and have not learned basic social/conversational skills because of heavy dependence on electronic means of communication rather than actual face to face interactions

Yeah... While the retreat from public life has been noticeable since The 80s(a decade which saw the advent of 24 hour cable TV)and just gotten worse since The Internet became a phenomena, COVID really elevated what you describe to symphonic proportions

The years between '19-'22 were essentially an apocalypse... We're all having to learn how to live again

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

.

It's like trying to herd a bunch of cats.

The majority dont want to go, and you won't be able to get them to follow you, even if your life depended on it.

But you will have a select few that are wiiling to roll.

Shout out to them who sees the vision.

 

[BaronOfHair]

.

It's like trying to herd a bunch of cats.

The majority dont want to go, and you won't be able to get them to follow you, even if your life depended on it.

But you will have a select few that are wiiling to roll.

Shout out to them who sees the vision.

The fundamentalist definition of "inclusivity" that's been adopted throughout our society has created a nation of folks who think it's A-OK to walk into a four-star Italian restaurant, order a Big Mac, refuse to eat from the menu, then screech "We're being bullied!!!"when someone points out that their behavior is childish and unacceptable

 

[BaronOfHair]

Proverbs 18:22, written thousands of years ago, implies not every man gets a wife.

And not everyone is fit for a mate, much less a high-quality one. We're just going through one of those strange periods in history where pragmatism("There are a few policies which are ripe for revision, for the sake of removing barriers to opportunity. Once that's been achieved, folks are going to have to take those opportunities") is met with an unusual amount of revulsion, while utopianism("We need to overhaul The System, and create a world where everyone makes the same amount of money, has the same amount of power, and everyone gets a great spouse")is hailed as an advanced way of existing

 

[jhonny9546]

Every day spent surrounded by people of low value will push you to be like them.
Every day spent with weak men will not make you a great man just because you know the rules and are applying them.
We are shaped this way by human nature.
Our brains are influenced by the information they receive, and what we think, we become.

That is why my greatest goal is to become a great man.
However, to truly achieve this, I first need to determine what I am seeking to become one, whether it be fame, financial success, family success, social success, etc.
I must find out where in the world men with the lifestyle I am interested in live, learn from them, and be in their presence. I believe that this is the most powerful thing of all.

Imagine if we gathered 30 mature and experienced men from this forum all in the same neighborhood or district.
It would form a small nation of men of the highest value, giving birth to strong men through "real" teachings, rather than being conditioned by the "wrong" information that our brains receive from the world.

 

[Divorced w 3]

You have to take an honest inventory of your strengths and weaknesses across as many facets of your life as you can and then prioritize them. You need to think of physical, mental, professional, emotional, social, academic, etc. Do this by journaling or maybe spending time with professional development coaches or your physician or a psychologist or whoever else.

The best way to do this is by starting doing something you are interested. Inertia is the ultimate enemy. As Paul Graham, the cofounder of Y Combinator once said, when choosing between two ideas, the one that allows laziness is probably the wrong one. Others are creating perfect conditions in an imperfect society while the unproductive are waiting for the eternal perfect conditions before they get started.