Knowing too much about Gf's past
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im disappointed wiht the insight you guys are showing right now :trouble:
this guy is not an AFC for how he is feeling. 90% of guys would feel the same way having their girl tell them about guys she's banged in the past. heck, the number is probably more like 98% - no matter how tough guys may talk on here. if you care about a woman and she's telling you about guys who have stuck their meat in her, its going to piss you off. which is why you should never ask about that stuff.
but lets go into it a bit deeper.
the reason this phenomena happens, in my opinion, is simply.
you see, lets say you started dating a woman who use to be an escort. well, you've known that she's probably banged 1000s of guys. but it wouldn't bother you. you know why - because you know thats who she is. you know you are dating an ex escort and you know thats her past, sexually.
as a result, you DO NOT put her on a pedastle. you DO NOT think of her as mother teresa. you DO NOT build her up into some sweet little dough eyed bambi creature who just wants to run through the fields with you.
now, a regular woman? she lays down the groundwork on you. she presents herself as sugar and spice and everything nice. women know that this is what men want. she feeds your ego, making you think your the center of her universe - women KNOW that every guy loves that, and they serve it up on a silver platter.
this is when you start telling yourself 'she's not like other women.' that what the two of you share is 'special'.
then when she drops stories of how previous guys f*cked her its like life taking a sledge hammer to the 'fantasy' the two of you have created!
the real question in these situations is to ask yourself WHY she would do this? why she would tell you about these things?
from my experience they tend to do this for a variety of reasons...
1) they get comfortable in the relationship and slip up in the 'sugar and spice' persona they've been crafting.
2) they actually think it will make you jealous. its a manipulation tactic basically. they think if you know that other men wanted them, then you will want them more. they will often do this when they sense your IL decreasing.
3) they are looking to make a crack in the relationship. they are looking to wrap things up and move on, and they know planting this seed will lead to behaviors by the male that they can use to excuse them leaving.
4) they are looking to rattle you emotionally so that they can then control you better. remember, a man in control of his emotions is impervious to women's manipulation - they dont like that long term. so they want to find your buttons, they want to know how they can hurt you so that if they need to they can bully / hurt you in the future.
5) some women actually haven't had a lot of experience, or haven't been with a lot of men. sometimes they feel ashamed of this, as though they aren't desirable. they will sometimes bring stuff up as a way of maintain at least a basic impression that other men have wanted them (ie. validated them).
#2 seems to be the primary reason they will tell you about ex lovers, but 1,3 and 4 come in to play sometimes also.
now some of you might be saying 'oh come on. maybe she's just being open and honest. does everything have to have an alterior motive?"
in this scenario there is an alterior motive. listen, women are way more sensitive to whats 'appropriate' to disclose than men are. they KNOW they are dropping a bomb. they KNOW that men DO NOT react well to this stuff. trust me, they've done this to other guys, its not just you, and they KNOW the typical reaction they are going to get from it.
moreover, try telling a chic about the chics you've banged in the past. the result is going to be her being pissed off and moody for weeks. so THEY dont like hearing it, so they obviously know you are not going to like hearing it.
now, what guys aren't bothered by this? the guys who don't put women on a pedastle. the guys who have given up on the notion that women can be 'sugar and spice and everything nice'. guys who accept that women are no different than men, that they are no more moral than men are, that they are just as much 'dogs' as men are. for these men there is no cognitive dissonance in dealing with women.
its the men who keep wishing women were 'sugar and spice' that get upset when they find out their girl getting hammered by 2 black guys in the back of a pickup truck that lose it. and the reason they lose it is because of cognitive dissonance.
here they are viewing their relationship as something special and unique and made of pixie dust and love muffins - only to find out that their girl is just another run of the mill kawk sucker. they thought 'they were the center of their girls world. that they were this high value man their woman had chosen and was thankful to have.' only to find out that their woman woudl be just as satisfied getting muff hammered by the football team. it creates an utter sense of cognitive dissonance - which is also why suddenly they can't look at her the way they did before.
and like i say, women do this KNOWING this kind of reaction will occur. its a bold and brash move and one usually attempted at crushing a males spirit.
ironically a DJ just laughs it off. it has the opposite effect on the DJ. which will often upset the woman. here she revealed herself to be a 'slut' (by traditional norms mind you) only for the DJ to laugh it off, leaving hte impression "haha. it doesn't bother me. i always knew you were a slut."
now heres another problem with this whole scenario - the erroneous assumption that all women are sluts or saints.
the reality is that women are just like men. there are a huge quantity of them who have slept with a lot of men, who have engaged in meaningless sex, etc. - i mean, who do you think all the guys are sleeping with?!
and just like men, a huge quantity of them have only had a few partners and cared about those partners.
the stupid 'sex in the city' mentality that has permiated society has created this vibe that every woman is living her life like a porno actress and every guy is macking on every chic he sees.
the reality is that most women, like most men, are 'unlucky' in love. most women aren't getting asked out every day. most women aren't getting laid at every turn.
i've been with enough women to know that most women do NOT have 25 notches on their bed post. heck, your AVERAGE woman has maybe 5-10 notches.
trust me, when you start asking a lot of women out, what you find (or at least i've found) is that a lot of them are pleasantly surprised when you do. its not like they have been asked out 100 times before you did. more often than not they haven't been asked out in quite some time.
and the ones who have been asked out, its often ones who hit the bars and are getting hit on by guys they could care less about.
anyway, long story short, I do think that if a woman tells you about past lovers that its a bad sign. a woman who is really in to you will avoid that conversation because she doesn't want your IL to drop off.
when a woman tells you about her ex's, in my opinion, its a clear sign that you have entered the land of mind games.
this guy is not an AFC for how he is feeling. 90% of guys would feel the same way having their girl tell them about guys she's banged in the past. heck, the number is probably more like 98% - no matter how tough guys may talk on here. if you care about a woman and she's telling you about guys who have stuck their meat in her, its going to piss you off. which is why you should never ask about that stuff.
but lets go into it a bit deeper.
the reason this phenomena happens, in my opinion, is simply.
you see, lets say you started dating a woman who use to be an escort. well, you've known that she's probably banged 1000s of guys. but it wouldn't bother you. you know why - because you know thats who she is. you know you are dating an ex escort and you know thats her past, sexually.
as a result, you DO NOT put her on a pedastle. you DO NOT think of her as mother teresa. you DO NOT build her up into some sweet little dough eyed bambi creature who just wants to run through the fields with you.
now, a regular woman? she lays down the groundwork on you. she presents herself as sugar and spice and everything nice. women know that this is what men want. she feeds your ego, making you think your the center of her universe - women KNOW that every guy loves that, and they serve it up on a silver platter.
this is when you start telling yourself 'she's not like other women.' that what the two of you share is 'special'.
then when she drops stories of how previous guys f*cked her its like life taking a sledge hammer to the 'fantasy' the two of you have created!
the real question in these situations is to ask yourself WHY she would do this? why she would tell you about these things?
from my experience they tend to do this for a variety of reasons...
1) they get comfortable in the relationship and slip up in the 'sugar and spice' persona they've been crafting.
2) they actually think it will make you jealous. its a manipulation tactic basically. they think if you know that other men wanted them, then you will want them more. they will often do this when they sense your IL decreasing.
3) they are looking to make a crack in the relationship. they are looking to wrap things up and move on, and they know planting this seed will lead to behaviors by the male that they can use to excuse them leaving.
4) they are looking to rattle you emotionally so that they can then control you better. remember, a man in control of his emotions is impervious to women's manipulation - they dont like that long term. so they want to find your buttons, they want to know how they can hurt you so that if they need to they can bully / hurt you in the future.
5) some women actually haven't had a lot of experience, or haven't been with a lot of men. sometimes they feel ashamed of this, as though they aren't desirable. they will sometimes bring stuff up as a way of maintain at least a basic impression that other men have wanted them (ie. validated them).
#2 seems to be the primary reason they will tell you about ex lovers, but 1,3 and 4 come in to play sometimes also.
now some of you might be saying 'oh come on. maybe she's just being open and honest. does everything have to have an alterior motive?"
in this scenario there is an alterior motive. listen, women are way more sensitive to whats 'appropriate' to disclose than men are. they KNOW they are dropping a bomb. they KNOW that men DO NOT react well to this stuff. trust me, they've done this to other guys, its not just you, and they KNOW the typical reaction they are going to get from it.
moreover, try telling a chic about the chics you've banged in the past. the result is going to be her being pissed off and moody for weeks. so THEY dont like hearing it, so they obviously know you are not going to like hearing it.
now, what guys aren't bothered by this? the guys who don't put women on a pedastle. the guys who have given up on the notion that women can be 'sugar and spice and everything nice'. guys who accept that women are no different than men, that they are no more moral than men are, that they are just as much 'dogs' as men are. for these men there is no cognitive dissonance in dealing with women.
its the men who keep wishing women were 'sugar and spice' that get upset when they find out their girl getting hammered by 2 black guys in the back of a pickup truck that lose it. and the reason they lose it is because of cognitive dissonance.
here they are viewing their relationship as something special and unique and made of pixie dust and love muffins - only to find out that their girl is just another run of the mill kawk sucker. they thought 'they were the center of their girls world. that they were this high value man their woman had chosen and was thankful to have.' only to find out that their woman woudl be just as satisfied getting muff hammered by the football team. it creates an utter sense of cognitive dissonance - which is also why suddenly they can't look at her the way they did before.
and like i say, women do this KNOWING this kind of reaction will occur. its a bold and brash move and one usually attempted at crushing a males spirit.
ironically a DJ just laughs it off. it has the opposite effect on the DJ. which will often upset the woman. here she revealed herself to be a 'slut' (by traditional norms mind you) only for the DJ to laugh it off, leaving hte impression "haha. it doesn't bother me. i always knew you were a slut."
now heres another problem with this whole scenario - the erroneous assumption that all women are sluts or saints.
the reality is that women are just like men. there are a huge quantity of them who have slept with a lot of men, who have engaged in meaningless sex, etc. - i mean, who do you think all the guys are sleeping with?!
and just like men, a huge quantity of them have only had a few partners and cared about those partners.
the stupid 'sex in the city' mentality that has permiated society has created this vibe that every woman is living her life like a porno actress and every guy is macking on every chic he sees.
the reality is that most women, like most men, are 'unlucky' in love. most women aren't getting asked out every day. most women aren't getting laid at every turn.
i've been with enough women to know that most women do NOT have 25 notches on their bed post. heck, your AVERAGE woman has maybe 5-10 notches.
trust me, when you start asking a lot of women out, what you find (or at least i've found) is that a lot of them are pleasantly surprised when you do. its not like they have been asked out 100 times before you did. more often than not they haven't been asked out in quite some time.
and the ones who have been asked out, its often ones who hit the bars and are getting hit on by guys they could care less about.
anyway, long story short, I do think that if a woman tells you about past lovers that its a bad sign. a woman who is really in to you will avoid that conversation because she doesn't want your IL to drop off.
when a woman tells you about her ex's, in my opinion, its a clear sign that you have entered the land of mind games.
1) Never, EVER bring up this topic. No good can come of it.
2) If it DOES come up in conversation and she wants to talk about it, you stick a finger in each ear and go, "LALALALALALALALALALALA".
She will get the point.
2) If it DOES come up in conversation and she wants to talk about it, you stick a finger in each ear and go, "LALALALALALALALALALALA".
She will get the point.
Good post Joe.
If you care about a chick it's at least going to put thoughts into your mind you shouldn't have, even if it's just casually wondering if she really enjoyed it. I don't care who you are, if you care about her you will feel SOME kind of emotion.
In my early days that sh!t would have REALLY bothered me. But as I came to realize that most of what you see with women is nothing more than a FRONT, I was able to get a third person view of my emotional state that made me understand that what I was feeling was ridiculous.
And if there is ANYTHING on earth a woman will lie about it's her sexual past. And the more "goody goody" she is, the more she's gonna lie to protect her image.
I like to enjoy my pixie dust and love muffins by remaining blissfully ignorant, thank you.
If you care about a chick it's at least going to put thoughts into your mind you shouldn't have, even if it's just casually wondering if she really enjoyed it. I don't care who you are, if you care about her you will feel SOME kind of emotion.
In my early days that sh!t would have REALLY bothered me. But as I came to realize that most of what you see with women is nothing more than a FRONT, I was able to get a third person view of my emotional state that made me understand that what I was feeling was ridiculous.
And if there is ANYTHING on earth a woman will lie about it's her sexual past. And the more "goody goody" she is, the more she's gonna lie to protect her image.
I like to enjoy my pixie dust and love muffins by remaining blissfully ignorant, thank you.
I genuinely don't care about my gfs sexual past. I accept and applaud women's appetitie for sex, and am not threatened because I am the best they will ever have. Still, this woman says she cheated on her bf while on holiday, that's not good news.
Bible_Belt
Master Don Juan
To give an anecdote supporting this, last Christmas my then-gf got me a digital camera and photo printer. I didn't quite catch the hint at first; she had to outright tell me she had bedroom plans for the gift. But then, before the camera got set up, it occurred to her to ask if I had ever done this before with anyone else. Boy do I wish I had that answer back! She clammed up right away, and we never took a single picture. Like you said, that mistake will only take me once to learn.Rollo Tomassi said:
STR8UP said:
id go so far as to say its completely healthy and normal for a woman to hide her past. all the women that i would consider 'functional' women were tight lipped about their past.
the women who were very open about their past typically were amazing in bed, but as i got to know them had deep seated emotional issues.
with these women i thought i hit the jackpot, hot sex fiend who would do anything, anytime, anywhere. but what i've come to learn is that its not normal for a woman to behave this way. and the ones who do have a TON of repressed sh*t going on inside of them.
at the end of the day i believe that all human beings ultimately desire to be genuinely loved and valued. and i believe that both men and women who give up on that desire and simply accept that the best life has to offer is 'raunchy sex' ultimately end up pretty unsatisfied with life.
MacAvoy
Banned
I'm going to have to try this one sometime for kicks. I think it will be hilarious, acting like a child. If she forces the issue, I'll keep doing it, if she really forces it, I'll go into my Wilt Chamberlain routine.STR8UP said:
Joker,
good post as well, I agree about dating an escort vs the mother theresa perception of a regular women.
her: how many women have you slept with?
you: you only want to know about the women right?
you: how many legs does a centipede have?
you: to be honest i can't remember how many. i'd have to check with my
mom if you wanted the exact number.
you: do they count if they were midgets?
you: well there was my psychologist. and my doctor. and my teacher in 10th
grade. oh oh, and my best friends mom. and my boss at work. oh wait,
are we talking in reality or just in my head? if its just reality then scratch
my doctor off the list.
you: you only want to know about the women right?
you: how many legs does a centipede have?
you: to be honest i can't remember how many. i'd have to check with my
mom if you wanted the exact number.
you: do they count if they were midgets?
you: well there was my psychologist. and my doctor. and my teacher in 10th
grade. oh oh, and my best friends mom. and my boss at work. oh wait,
are we talking in reality or just in my head? if its just reality then scratch
my doctor off the list.
Its stories like this that made me forget all about society's brainwashing of how women all want mongomous relationship so they can get married and have a family while having no or little sexual partners in their life time prior to this.
Its funny how women call each other sluts and say they can spot a slut but in actuality all they need to do is look in the mirror.
Its funny how women call each other sluts and say they can spot a slut but in actuality all they need to do is look in the mirror.
Rollo Tomassi
Master Don Juan
That's because 90% of guys are AFCs (and that's a conservative estimate). Actually he's feeling that way because he's an AFC. This guy is a chump, for exactly the same reason anyone else here is thinking that women ought to have some mythical, virginic code to live up to in order to make her guy feel special. Guys, women ƒuck other guys than you, get over it. It's not a "mistake" she made in some fit of youthful indescretion, she met a guy who got her blood flowing and they ƒucked because she WANTED to. That doesn't make her a slut or a tramp, it just means she was hot for another guy she happened to meet before you entered the picture. Just like you (should've) banged plenty of women before her.joekerr31 said:
Now if she's constently harping on how great her previous lover's were, or even if she brings it up in casual conversation then you need to see this for what it is - a sh!t test. The well conditioned AFC will have the reaction most of this thread has already exhibited; nervous discontent that's eliciting an emotional response. Of course you don't want to hear about how the guy before you had a 10" c0ck. You don't think she knows this? This is a sh!t test meant to gauge your reaction and/or a covert message of her dissatisfaction with you. The issue isn't whether or not she's had previous lovers, it's her communicating the details to you - THAT is the message. The best (and really the most rational) reaction is simply to not allow it to phase you. Easier said than done you'll say, but not if you're spinning plates as you should.
As ruthless as you think she's being with you by brining up past sexual experiences, understand that what she's looking for is a sense of your self-confidence. If you turn it into a pissing contest, you failed the test - "I had a 3-way with my last BF", "Oh yeah? I had a 4-way with my last GF." Oneupmanship will only make you look as if you're qualifying yourself to her, she sees you as lacking confidence (or worse still, making it all up) and she controls the frame.
If you allow her sexual past to "get to you" and you become possessive, or you turn into a mewling emotional symp about it, you fail as well. Why? Because you confirm for her that you are, and most likely have been, optionless with other women. If you're going to cry about her ƒucking her last few BFs, how insecure are you really? What does that say about your attitude and confidence in yourself about how many women have wanted you as a sexual partner in your own past? A woman wants to know, and be kept in the anxiety that, she's with a guy that could be with other women if he chose to be so. This is the essence of Plate Theory - the feminine competitive dynamic. Pook said it best, women would rather share a successful Man than be saddled to a faithful loser. When you kvetch on and on about your GFs sexual exploits (whether she offered them up or not) you OVERTLY tell here I am a faithful loser.
The way to pass the test is of course by displaying confidence in what would rattle most AFCs, but doing so COVERTLY. The miniute you acknowledge it's a sh!t test, the minute you acknowledge that it bothers you, your communicating in the OVERT, and not only do you fail the test, but you lose the frame. The best way to react to this test is to be more mature about it than she is. Keep her guessing by being ambiguous and nebulous about your own sexual past. As I've always advised in every other situation, the most powerful tool a DJ has is to let a woman's imagination work for you. Far too many chumps think that an issue will be resolved with complete and full disclosure; nothing could be worse. If you adopt the attitude that you're unphased by her confessions it plants that seed of doubt that she really looking for, in that you may or may not take what she's saying at face value. Regardless, always do so with a been-there done-that attitude. Nothing shakes a woman's sh!t test and turns it around on them better than an attitude that says "I'm older and more mature than you" and conveys it to them in a covert manner. Sort of a "why are you telling me this?" presence.
BlackWidow
Don Juan
Wow.
And she said that women need to satisfy their sexual urges as well.
And?
I was like 2 flings in a matter of a couple of months. Thats pretty fast. Her response was she was overseas, it felt like a holiday, emotions where high. So i told her its going to be a cause for worry if the next time shes wants to travel without me.
Should I get you a tampon, or a diaper? I'm not certain...
i felt a part of me died.
You reek of insecurity.
But we were all young and foolish once.
I find it even more puzzling cos she always tells me shes a sensible girl and she knows what shes doing.
yea, because apparently NOBODY'S really supposed to act like that on vacation...and she's right, she does know what she's doing. Although, I don't know what she's doing with your insecure a$$.
I just came into this thread. You walked straight into the lion's den with this topic of convo. Jesus man.Blues said:
And she said that women need to satisfy their sexual urges as well.
And?
I was like 2 flings in a matter of a couple of months. Thats pretty fast. Her response was she was overseas, it felt like a holiday, emotions where high. So i told her its going to be a cause for worry if the next time shes wants to travel without me.
Should I get you a tampon, or a diaper? I'm not certain...
i felt a part of me died.
You reek of insecurity.
But we were all young and foolish once.
I find it even more puzzling cos she always tells me shes a sensible girl and she knows what shes doing.
yea, because apparently NOBODY'S really supposed to act like that on vacation...and she's right, she does know what she's doing. Although, I don't know what she's doing with your insecure a$$.
BlackWidow
Don Juan
Why are they 'mistakes'? Do men consider some of their own sexual encounters -namely one night stands or threesomes-mistakes?Latinoman said:
Why is this behavior disgusting? If the woman is comfortable with her sexual self, why is it disgusting? Why is she labeled? I don't really see a problem here. Blues' gf is being a sexually healthy 23 yr old. If she hadn't had those experiences maybe she wouldn't be such a catch in the sack, eh?
RE-LAX.
ThunderMaverick
Master Don Juan
- Joined
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My insecurities helped end my relationship.
I just HAD to ask her how many guys she's been with. Just for fun.
Nothing fun about it.
I wanted to be the best and the only one for her. How immature is that? She's a human being with desires instinctively instilled in her, just like me. Just like every normal human being out there. She was faithful to the end but she lost desire for me because I was so goddamn insecure.
Oops. As a man, keep your fears and doubts to yourself.
I just HAD to ask her how many guys she's been with. Just for fun.
Nothing fun about it.
I wanted to be the best and the only one for her. How immature is that? She's a human being with desires instinctively instilled in her, just like me. Just like every normal human being out there. She was faithful to the end but she lost desire for me because I was so goddamn insecure.
Oops. As a man, keep your fears and doubts to yourself.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
Ah ! The voice of reason once again !!joekerr31 said:
To the original poster - if this girls' past bothers you to the extent that it would always create lingering doubt in the back of your mind, do not commit to her. You need to find an LTR with someone else who share your VALUES.
Your life is yours and you need to be good with ALL aspects to a woman's behavior both past and present.
Remember this -companies hire new employees on the strength of the evidence of that applicant's past performance.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
NO ! This desire is NOT immature at all. You wanted to be her sexual hero -great !ThunderMaverick said:
However it all goes wrong when you lead her into 'the talk' about how many, and who and when and in what motel. etc.. this leads to endless comparisons and doubts in your mind and more questioning of her, and your insecurities are amped up and so on and so on... A downward spiral..
Be her BEST lover by being your best -but do not talk about the others ...No good EVER comes of it.
Yea, if you know that you will be ostracized for certain behavior it's in your best interest not to shout it from the rooftops.joekerr31 said:
As evidenced by many posters on this board, and the majority of the public in general, pretty much ANY sexual behavior by women is considered questionable, if not downright repulsive. Ok, maybe the exception is if she tells you she's only had sex with one or two guys before you. We all tend to look at a woman who gives us a low "number" and avoids talk of threesomes and gangbangs as more respectable. So why would any woman tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? As many others have already pointed out, she WON'T unless there's a reason for it.
My first g/f probably slept with a dozen guys by the time I met her at 19. This is just my guess. I think she fessed up to three or so, but I could tell by discrepancies in her timelines and such that her number was probably quite a bit higher.
I pretty much wised up after that whole debacle. From that point on my policy was "don't ask, don't tell".
I did, however, have a couple of g/f's between then and now who volunteered the info. One said she had only been with one other guy (this was my last LTR) and the other told be that she had been with two before me.
I had pretty good reason to believe that both of these girls were telling the truth. The one who said I was her third....her subsequent behavior and communication was consistent with what she told me, so I'm pretty sure she was telling the truth. My last LTR was still kinda "with" her first b/f from like MIDDLE SCHOOL or something when I met her, so I had little reason to doubt her either, but one night she told me that one time she let a chick finger her. Hmmm....there's some gray area......I see.....
That disclosure didn't bother me at all
, but it just goes to show that she wasn't forthcoming with ALL of her sexual details early in the relationship. So who really knows the truth?Point is though....you shouldn't CARE.
ThunderMaverick
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2004
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- 42
Yeah it all went wrong when I started comparing myself to her previous lovers.
Was he bigger?
Did he give you better head?
Did he make you scream in bed?
Bla bla bla bla. THAT is immature. I gnash my teeth at the thought of being so stupid. It's rare to be the best at anything. Just be the best YOU can be. Stop comparing yourself. She's with you hopefully for good reasons and not feeling like she's settling.
Was he bigger?
Did he give you better head?
Did he make you scream in bed?
Bla bla bla bla. THAT is immature. I gnash my teeth at the thought of being so stupid. It's rare to be the best at anything. Just be the best YOU can be. Stop comparing yourself. She's with you hopefully for good reasons and not feeling like she's settling.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
NOW your getting it. SHe is with you because she WANTS to be with you .ThunderMaverick said:
Questioning her about her other lovers, B/fs never brings good outcomes. Even it you are busting your buttons to know -do not ask..I
I used to say to myself . " if those other guys (that she mention sometimes) were so great, where are they now ? They are gone , busted up, dumped ...all over, red rover !!
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