It's no secret: "The Secret" and the "Law of Attraction" are BULLSH*T

Holland

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Stop taking everything so seriously and literally, you dumb fu(ken rejects, learn to expand your retarded minds for once ya dipsh!ts.
That's about the best advice to seal off this thread.

Most of these pessimists and skeptics out there just can"t focus on the effective parts of things That"s just SAD


Ricorico,
Positive wishing (like the poor children do) will do NOTHING.
Actually, when you are wishing that your reality were different you are DENYING the present.
There is no courage, no creativity and no change, just wishing.
They can wish forever and remain poor their entire lives.

The Secret is NOT about positive wishing, it's about being courageous and heroic.
Or as Michael Beckwith put it: Affirmative realisation trough right action.

There is no affirmation in a wish.
There is affirmation in a decision.
A decision to completely alter your life into one you truly want.

Let me repeat it one more time, so you people get it: POSITIVE WISHING WILL DO NO THING, (in fact, it can even become neurotic!)


A-unit, thanks for the part in your post about the polarity principle thing.
That made me realise something.
If you can have the negative, you must also be able to get the positive.
 
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One last bit...everything in existence has an opposite, otherwise, we wouldn't know existence from non-existence. Black has white. Up has down. Ugly has pretty. Existence has non-existence. Heaven has hell. It's as if without opposites, nothing would exist. If everything was perfect, we'd have really nothing to do. No work. No wealth. No anything. Because it would all be some white, bland canvas upon nothing needs to be painted because perfection exists. But then walla, the world comes, and there's stuff to do. There's opposite. Two sides of a coin. Male and female. Hot and cold. Big and small. Wealthy and poor. On and on.

In life, because of the opposites factor...you'll always find what you seek. Because it exists. If something exists, it's opposite has to exist, too. Therefore, you can see one side of the coin, or the other. You CHOOSE to see what happens as positive or negative. I needn't go into the story of the farmer, his son, and the horse, as it's been posted before here, and in NLP books.
is of course rubbish. Male and female you say? The question of why most organisms have split into 2 sexes is a very difficult and probably unresolved topic. It just shows the poverty of your imagination that you think like the above. What someone with serious intelligence would ask is: why are there two sexes? And the answer is not still not really satisfactory. Certain organisms do not have 2 sexes, so your "everything in existence has an opposite" is just shoddy logic. Most of the pairings that you mention are just constructions that mankind has made up to simplify things (and a bit of self delusion for good measure as well)

Sometimes if certain things have an "opposite" it's simply because certain laws or concepts compel them so, it was never intentional. Take for example rich and poor: if we have a completely socialists society where everyone has the same amount of wealth there will be no rich or poor, being rich means, by definition, that you have more money compared to someone else, the definition of "rich" forces the need for the concept of "poor".

My mind is going to mush posting here so I'll call it a night. I would like to add further but not now and I need to read up more and collect my thoughts - something that DeepDish does extremely well.

I would however like to add that author's of books, unless bounded by professional codes of practice on the subject they are writing about etc . . , are not in anyway obligated to tell the truth. That right, they could lie. Why? Because the selling of books is a business, and in a business you are out to make money. If you were an author who just happened to tell downright lies/give dubious advice but somehow your book is a runaway best seller how would you feel? Hell, you might even believe in your own BS.
 

DjDreamer

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Believe what makes you happy... it may have no root in actual physical laws however if it makes you happy then go ahead and believe it...

What I see coming from the proponents of extreme positive thinking is the goal is not to be humble... it's to be overflowing with positivity... so... how big can you inflate that ego? Only with experience you'll know...
 

ricorico

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Affirmative realization through action is no secret. Most religions preach it. Most grade schools teach it. in Fact "I believe I can fly" by R. Kelly was my school graduation song. You can achieve anything you want has been stressed to me by my parents ever since I can remember. What is so different about the secret if that is the message we all already know? Who believes being negative will get them anywhere?

I will achieve a lot in my lifetime. I am lucky to be in a position where there are lots of oppurtunities around me. But I believe God's plan for me is to be willing and able to help others by giving them an oppurtunity they otherwise would not have had. I am here to make a difference where I can. I already have plans help as many children from poor countries as I can by providing an education they probably would have never had in order to give them oppurtunity. This is why I strive to be successful. A Ferrari in my garage is not what makes me happy.
 
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A-Unit

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Re:

is of course rubbish. Male and female you say? The question of why most organisms have split into 2 sexes is a very difficult and probably unresolved topic. It just shows the poverty of your imagination that you think like the above. What someone with serious intelligence would ask is: why are there two sexes? And the answer is not still not really satisfactory. Certain organisms do not have 2 sexes, so your "everything in existence has an opposite" is just shoddy logic. Most of the pairings that you mention are just constructions that mankind has made up to simplify things (and a bit of self delusion for good measure as well)

Sometimes if certain things have an "opposite" it's simply because certain laws or concepts compel them so, it was never intentional. Take for example rich and poor: if we have a completely socialists society where everyone has the same amount of wealth there will be no rich or poor, being rich means, by definition, that you have more money compared to someone else, the definition of "rich" forces the need for the concept of "poor".
One thing I do believe is that...there's no resolution to this debate, or argument. And that is because...what we tend to be debating as naive young men, are topics humanity has wrestled with for CENTURIES. And part of the reason we've not gotten anywhere and the thread has devolved into rubbish is because posts like the aforementioned quoted poster...you begin with an attack, call it rubbish, make no point, then contradict yourself? Please. At least have the maturity and decency to make sense and back it up without trying to one up yourself, and in the process look worse.

Evidently we have a complete divergence in beliefs, and despite my best attempts to make solid, bold points, and have those challenged, people would rather identify everything I say with a movie, extrapolate what they will, attack, and then reply on science by which they have no knowledge.

As far as WHY we likely have 2 sexes, though yet unproven...it's because, as far as science can surmise, that's the best method to pass on genes. One sex often means you can't pick the best of the best. Funny, your SN on here is Darwinian Sympathizer...yet, the concept of natural selection eluded you on this one? Granted, that isn't locked in concrete, and I hold no PhD in science, but I've read that much into it with my degree, and extracurricular activities. As it stands, 2 females and 2 males can't procreate. Maybe, with the luxury of males and females, over time, it will evolve that way, where any sex can procreate...but then we presume the sex will be perfect, otherwise, whole species would die off if one organism was sick. But again, maybe that's just speculation?

What I said about opposites is nothing new. It's everywhere, too, just like the messages announced in the secret. The secret isn't new. It's new to the masses, because it's packaged right, visible, and gives people what they want. But for the guy/gal who wants more, you can find some nuggets in there worth using.

I REALLY don't get it...do people have such an immediate aversion to the title THE SECRET, that they've gone looney? I've posted many different ways, on different topics here, in this post, only to counter alot of hostility. Why? Is it catholics who refute anything not of God? Is it trolls (many of the names are not regular posters, at least in this thread). We've not had 1 constructive post in here that stayed on topic. If you want to rant on the movie, go for it. But no one has really countred much of what I'd said in the first few pages of this thread, which means the lock is coming soon, as it should.

Best of luck to all,

A-Unit
 

Holland

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Affirmative realization through action is no secret. Most religions preach it. Most grade schools teach it. in Fact "I believe I can fly" by R. Kelly was my school graduation song. You can achieve anything you want has been stressed to me by my parents ever since I can remember. What is so different about the secret if that is the message we all already know? Who believes being negative will get them anywhere?
They call it the secret because a lot of people don't live the way you do and they don't know that things can be different for them as well.
My school never thought me how to set and achieve goals. If your school did, then you are very fortunate.

I learned it because I was not succesfull with women. As I handled that, all these underlying principles for succes became very evident to me.
Call me self-delusional, I rather believe something that works for me than listen to some PhD who only writes books and does 'research'.

Look around you, there are more people going nowhere with their lives and not following their passions and dreams than you might think.
Sure, if you say to them: "Where will negativity get you?" a lot of them will say: "nowhere, blablabla,"
But most people are waaaay to scared to WALK THE TALK as well.

Most people are more concerned with security and potential loss than with taking calculated risk and potential gain (Brian Tracy)

The secret is even about the same ideas that Pook on this forum talked about:
The world is now your sandbox. Rejoice! Many people get swallowed up in their vanity, all believing themselves 'brilliant' and 'smart'. They follow their philosophies unquestioningly and their lives walk on the quicksand of melancholy. But... they see the new you and it smashes all their philosophies to bits. They ask each other, "How can he be so happy? How can he be so ALIVE? Let us study him and we will write articles and manifestos on him." But you know the truth. Their ambitions have consumed them while you look on life with youthful eyes...

...and live in a Child's Paradise.
DS, most of those people we are referring to already made millions, that might as well retire and just take a chill.
They don't need to write another book or audio program because they
are out to make money.
Bob Proctor, Brian Tracy a.o. have made numerous company's extremely succesfull.
You would be VERY IGNORANT if you would say they are 'believing their own BS'.
 

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My God. That was probably the longest post I've never completely read.

Anyway, I bought "The Secret" (DVD version). I'm going to address some issues that I have read on this topic and I'm going to address them in the voice of Marvin The Martian, although you won't be able to hear that part. So, moving on.

True: "The Secret" is not really a secret.
What makes any self-help book successful? The idea that there is a secret behind what you're trying to learn. Why are 95% of the men that post on this forum reading this forum in the first place? Because they believe that there is a secret to attracting women. What makes an overweight person spend $500 on a weight-loss program that promises quick results? They believe that there is a secret to weight loss. The real secret is that the whole idea of this being a secret that was locked away for centuries is really nothing more then a brilliant marketing campaign.

The Secret is a spin on the 1910 book, "The Science of Getting Rich" by Walter D. Wattles (haha, Wattles is a funny last name). Many people have pointed out comparisons between The Secret and The Bible, but all the idea's in this movie stem from the beliefs of Walter D. Wattles. Walter D. Wattles was christian and the word "God" is not replaced with the word "universe" in his book. Walter D. Wattles based his beliefs off of passages from the bible, scientific theory's and scientific facts.

Basically, "The Universe has a plan" means "God has a plan". "Let the Universe know your desires" means "let God know your desires". You want to know what The Secret is? Read The Bible.

Does The Secret work?

That question depends on your beliefs. An open minded individual who believes in both God and science will be willing to accept the theory that this movie presents better then someone who refuses to open his or her mind to scientific theorys that may doubt the existance of God. Someone who believes in Karma will more then likely understand this film as Walter D. Wattles points out that his book applies many of the same beliefs as Karma.

Do not watch this film if you're not an open minded individual. This film was meant for people with an open mind. The author of this topic was not open-minded. His mind was already made up before he even watched the movie.

I've been amidst composing a write-up exposing the bad science, faulty thinking, and superstitious woo-woo non-sense behind What The Bleep Do We Know? and The Secret, because both have been so popular that it crossed the threshold where nonsense needs to be addressed. But lucky little me, I subscribe to Skeptic magazine's newsletter and came across this wonderful gem.
I subscribe to Skeptic magazine's newsletter.
Where's the resolution to this debate?

There isn't one. Unless every individual on this forum is open-minded and willing to accept the beliefs of others while sticking to his own beliefs, then the debate will continue with harsh words from both sides. This is the same reason that religion has become such a controversial topic.
 

Nighthawk

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The resolution to this debate is that we all believe positive thinking is essential and can indeed change your life, but many of these book's/film's claims go way beyond that and are ridiculous.
 

Hyde

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Nighthawk said:
The resolution to this debate is that we all believe positive thinking is essential and can indeed change your life, but many of these book's/film's claims go way beyond that and are ridiculous.
Not all of us believe that the book is rediculous, though. That's where the arguement is.
 

Deep Dish

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A-Unit said:
I REALLY don't get it...do people have such an immediate aversion to the title THE SECRET, that they've gone looney? I've posted many different ways, on different topics here, in this post, only to counter alot of hostility... We've not had 1 constructive post in here that stayed on topic.
You are being patently dishonest. Right now I am about half way transcribing quotes for my exposé—four hours of audio is a long time to search through and is hell on my fingers—and it's so clearly obvious The Secret is entirely about mysticism, flagrant lies, and patently and flagrantly has nothing to do with positive thinking except in the context of the paranormal. It really does have entirely to do with quantum physics and with thought "frequencies" literally and in no sense metaphorically physically shaping physical reality just like in the film Dark City (one of my top three favorite movies). This thread has done a wonderful job constructively staying on-topic but it's mostly YOUR posts which stray off-topic.
 

Create self-fulfilling prophecies. Always assume the positive. Assume she likes you. Assume she wants to talk to you. Assume she wants to go out with you. When you think positive, positive things happen.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Holland

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This thread has done a wonderful job constructively staying on-topic but it's mostly YOUR posts which stray off-topic.
Dude, you are hilarious.

Have you even read the stuff that guys like James Ray, Bob Proctor, John Dimartini, Jack Canfield teach?

I wish you the best of luck, you're going to need it.
 
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A-Unit said:
As far as WHY we likely have 2 sexes, though yet unproven...it's because, as far as science can surmise, that's the best method to pass on genes. One sex often means you can't pick the best of the best. Funny, your SN on here is Darwinian Sympathizer...yet, the concept of natural selection eluded you on this one? Granted, that isn't locked in concrete, and I hold no PhD in science, but I've read that much into it with my degree, and extracurricular activities. As it stands, 2 females and 2 males can't procreate. Maybe, with the luxury of males and females, over time, it will evolve that way, where any sex can procreate...but then we presume the sex will be perfect, otherwise, whole species would die off if one organism was sick. But again, maybe that's just speculation?
This is one of the reasons why I tend not to post much these days, it's because we have people who don't actually know what they are talking about reply in the way that you do. You couldn't see that I was referring to a much deeper question, to which you gave a rather crude answer because you did not understand what I was alluding to.

Oh, and by the way, NOBODY really, completely understands natural selection. That's a pretty deep statement and I'll let you work that one out.
 

whistler

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A-Unit said:
One thing I do believe is that...there's no resolution to this debate, or argument. And that is because...what we tend to be debating as naive young men, are topics humanity has wrestled with for CENTURIES.
I think the sticking point here is that the anti-Secret posters are arguing the Law of Attraction can't exist as an actual force.

What personally drives me nuts is that that assertion seems obviously true.

And without the "Law" being real, the whole "Secret" is pointless.

It also drives me nuts that the arguments in the video are poor and the speakers make specious claims (the positive/negative thoughts dichotomy, for example).

My hope is that we can evaluate claims based on reason and data. The message ultimately is what must pass muster, not the credentials of the messengers. The fact that people have written books doesn't matter. The claims can and should be examined on their own.

Why?

Because people make claims all of the time. And the appeal of the claims does not bear on their veracity.

And why do I personally care about this? Because my job is to examine whether the claims of people with PhD's match reality. So this... this poor idea that wouldn't hold up to 5 minutes of serious scrutiny is being accepted, and it will pervert our understanding of reality.
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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whistler said:
...My hope is that we can evaluate claims based on reason and data. The message ultimately is what must pass muster, not the credentials of the messengers. The fact that people have written books doesn't matter. The claims can and should be examined on their own...
So following that premise, shouldn't people who want to critique the book actually read it? That would make sense, wouldn't it?
 

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So following that premise, shouldn't people who want to critique my magic beans actually buy some from me and try to grow them? That would make sense, wouldn't it?
 

whistler

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Francisco d'Anconia said:
So following that premise, shouldn't people who want to critique the book actually read it? That would make sense, wouldn't it?
Does the movie misrepresent some brilliant arguments made in the book?

I'll go out on a limb and say... slim chance.

But please, present the brilliance of the book if you've read it. You can make us all put our foot in our mouths.
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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whistler said:
Does the movie misrepresent some brilliant arguments made in the book?

I'll go out on a limb and say... slim chance.

But please, present the brilliance of the book if you've read it. You can make us all put our foot in our mouths.
It makes little sense to discuss points in the book with people who haven't read it. I said much earlier in the thread that people have a skewed misconception on how the premise works.

Am I saying that anyone who reads the book will be able to understand and implement it's ideas? Heck no. I was just hoping that someone else would actually read the book and be able to discuss their personal perception from the author's point of view instead of depending on Cliff Notes type synopsis of ideas from someone else. Heck it's not even like Cliff Notes, you still have to read Cliff Notes.
 
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Francisco d'Anconia

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Nighthawk said:
So following that premise, shouldn't people who want to critique my magic beans actually buy some from me and try to grow them? That would make sense, wouldn't it?
Umm, who cares about what's rattling around in your head? It's this type of attitude that limits so many people and they don't even know it. It's as if they could learn how to succeed with women from some Internet forum... :rolleyes:
 
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Proponents of The Secret was on "Nightline" ABC news yesterday - to be honest the comments that were made for this "new age" religion was nonsensical! People believe what they want to hear and people hear what they want to believe! The "new age" crowd believes there is no one GOD - everyone IS god! We have billions of gods out here - so good luck getting a concensus!!!
 

ricorico

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I tivo'd the Nightline piece and could'nt believe it when the interviewer said doctors interviewed did not beleive all disease was caused by thought and therefore self inflicted. What about genetics? Some family carry genes for heart defects,breast cancer,mental retardation, and all sorts of aother disease.

Then asked if he thought children in Darfur brought on their own hunger and suffering the old guy arrogantly answers yes!
 
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What happens, IN HER MIND, is that she comes to see you as WORTHLESS simply because she hasn't had to INVEST anything in you in order to get you or to keep you.

You were an interesting diversion while she had nothing else to do. But now that someone a little more valuable has come along, someone who expects her to treat him very well, she'll have no problem at all dropping you or demoting you to lowly "friendship" status.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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