It's no secret: "The Secret" and the "Law of Attraction" are BULLSH*T

[Deep Dish]

I downloaded the audio version of the DVD and will post a thorough write-up in a thread separate to this one since this one is long enough. But let be it noted, especially A-Unit, you guys are wasting my time and everyone's time arguing "oh you skeptics are misinterpreting what the book is about" when, for instance when near the very beginning Rhonda Byrne proudly and most clear as day states most uncritically she has received reports of miracles from her film of relief from chronic pain, depression, disease, "walking for the first time after an accident", "even recovering from a deathbed".

In other words, BULLSH*T, you fvckers.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I think it would be a miracle if I could find a critique of the book by someone else who has actually read it.

 

[DjDreamer]

Life is complex... like a calculus test... so no one mindset can explain it all or manage to obtain it all...

Thinking no negative thought about the future should be present because the universe will not be on ones side if one does so, is absolutely unscientific lunacy... no regards to safety whatsoever...

One does not have a safe drive by merely being a good visualizer of having a safe drive... action has to be taken... like making sure ones seat belt is strapped on...

A little bit of self doubt is a wish for safety... afterall living too much in the here and now makes you short sighted to the future... it's good to consider what could cause a possible unseen surprise while considering the necessary actions needed to prevent such an unwanted future... having mix feelings is good... it's thinking about safety... and that's an improvement...

 

[whistler]

They're making specific claims about how the "law of attraction" and the mind-universe interface operate:

"Your life is a physical manifestation of thoughts that go on in your head"

"You end up attracting to you the predominant thoughts that you're holding in your awareness, whether those thoughts are conscious or they're unconscious"

"When you focus on something with a lot of passion, it makes it happen even faster"

"Every time an individual has a thought, or a prolonged ah chronic way of thinking, they're in the creation process--something is going to manifest out of those thoughts"

"It always works; it works every time, with every person"

"When you think of the things you want and you focus on them with all of your attention, the law of attraction will give you what you want every time"

"It manifests the things that you think"

"Thoughts are sending out that magnetic signal that is drawing the parallel back to you"

"It has been proven now scientifically that an affirmative thought is hundreds of times more powerful than a negative thought"


You can easily duck under the idea that positive thinking leads to a better life. But then you're avoiding the critical point here: That your thoughts directly influence the universe.


So how does this work?

Not to sound condescending, but if you know anything about neuroscience, you'll know that there is zero evidence for that kind of relationship. "Brain waves" are not some mysterious, magical energy. Heck, I just analyzed some last week. We simply call some averaged, population-based activity in the cortex "brain waves" because the activity is oscillatory (kind of like a wave).

Other snippets of the commentary kill me. For one, there's no evidence for an "unconscious" mind. I know it's entered popular lore and is still, bizarrely, prominent in folk psychology, but there is actually zero evidence for it as it is usually conceived (as in the mumo-jumbo psychic force idea of Freud).

I suppose we only use 10% of our brains too? Right? More bvllsh!t. 100% of it is used by 100% of people 100% of the time (unless you have brain damage).

Another: How is a "positive" thought 100 times more powerful than a "negative" thought? Moreover, what is the difference between the two?

The man who made the "100x" claim is either a flat-out liar or should be completely ignored for being inept. (Or both.)


In an ideal world, the cheesy opening to the video alone would be enough to give someone a good chuckle.


Oh no, I must sound bitter... Am I chronically bitter? Yes, about stupid crap. Am I an unhappy, unsuccessful person? Hardly.


whistler, one who has broken the law of attraction. he who bends the laws of the universe.

 

[Holland]

Other snippets of the commentary kill me. For one, there's no evidence for an "unconscious" mind. I know it's entered popular lore and is still, bizarrely, prominent in folk psychology, but there is actually zero evidence for it as it is usually conceived (as in the mumo-jumbo psychic force idea of Freud).

So you are conciously regulating your breathing, heartbeat, reflexes etc.?

Must be tough work, Mr. Universal-Law-Bender

Freud's unconcious mind is a WAAAAAAAAY other concept than the subconcious mind people like Joseph Murphy, Brian Tracy and Napoleon Hill talk about.
(I do believe that psychotherapy is not a very smart idea. Talk about suggestive influence and igniting peoples imagination to make up major trauma (that is suppose to be derived from the unconcious mind) in a client's mind. Bring a client in a trance and start feeding him/her a suggestive story untill they make it so real (false memory) that the client starts believing in it. Not a healthy concept.)



Everything in the universe is EXACTLY the way it's supposed to be.
If you stop judging it and accept it. Then you can improve it.

 

[darwinian_sympathiser]

I downloaded the audio version of the DVD and will post a thorough write-up in a thread separate to this one since this one is long enough. But let be it noted, especially A-Unit, you guys are wasting my time and everyone's time arguing "oh you skeptics are misinterpreting what the book is about" when, for instance when near the very beginning Rhonda Byrne proudly and most clear as day states most uncritically she has received reports of miracles from her film of relief from chronic pain, depression, disease, "walking for the first time after an accident", "even recovering from a deathbed".

In other words, BULLSH*T, you fvckers.

I've haven't been here for a while, but you are one of the few posters that I like reading.

Maybe me and you ought to write a long essay debunking "The Game" by Neil Strauss. I still find it incredibly amazing how humans can delude themselves, but I suppose when it comes to love everyone plays the fool.

 

[Last Man Standing]

More "new age" self-actualization - "me generation" bullshyt that has been pushed in the last 40 years! Wake up - this is part of The Matrix!

 

[whistler]

So you are conciously regulating your breathing, heartbeat, reflexes etc.?

Cute. But brain-stem does not equal unconcious. There's no "mind" in there in the lay sense.

Freud's unconcious mind is a WAAAAAAAAY other concept than the subconcious mind people like Joseph Murphy, Brian Tracy and Napoleon Hill talk about.
(I do believe that psychotherapy is not a very smart idea. Talk about suggestive influence and igniting peoples imagination to make up major trauma (that is suppose to be derived from the unconcious mind) in a client's mind. Bring a client in a trance and start feeding him/her a suggestive story untill they make it so real (false memory) that the client starts believing in it. Not a healthy concept.)

Actually, in the sense of the subconcious/unconscious mind and it not existing as a thinking entity, the point applies to Freud's and the others' conceptions.

i.e., none of them know what they are talking about. And the later guys just borrowed Freud's notion to sound intelligent.

You CAN process sensory input to a limited extent without being fully aware of what it is you're experiencing; but there's no evidence that there is a mental infrastructure below awareness that contains motives or a sense of self.

Everything in the universe is EXACTLY the way it's supposed to be.
If you stop judging it and accept it. Then you can improve it.

Or, everything in the universe just is the way it is, and we find ourselves imposing explanations everywhere, because explanations let us make predictions about our future interactions with objects.

 

[Holland]

That's why they call it the SUBconcious mind, not the unconcious mind.
Read the books first before you make your assumptions.

Personally, I don't really care about 'evidence' for a subconcious mind, when I get RESULTS.
It's not about who is 'right', it's about who is EFFECTIVE.

Or, everything in the universe just is the way it is, and we find ourselves imposing explanations everywhere, because explanations let us make predictions about our future interactions with objects

I agree.
But most people judge the world, saying stuff like: "This is not the way it's supposed to be" when something bad happens.
The truth is, that it is supposed to be and the proof for that is that IT IS.
Arguing with nature itself is insanity.
The best thing you can do is change your beliefs and actions so you can experience different results in the future.

 

[whistler]

Arguing with nature itself is insanity.
The best thing you can do is change your beliefs and actions so you can experience different results in the future.

Too true!

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

Not to sound condescending, but if you know anything about neuroscience, you'll know that there is zero evidence for that kind of relationship. "Brain waves" are not some mysterious, magical energy. Heck, I just analyzed some last week. We simply call some averaged, population-based activity in the cortex "brain waves" because the activity is oscillatory (kind of like a wave).

If you know anything about neuro-science, you'll know that you know nothing about neuroscience. Its a very new field, its young and very underdeveloped, just like most sciences.

However in the field of chemistry which I am sudying, the surface has barely been scratched. There are so many things continuously benig studied and developed, its mind boggling. And its chemistry, its relativelly simple compared to what happens inside a living organism, and its still so fvcking mysterious and complex!

And let's not get into things like thought patterns and the definition of conciousness in a living organism with some type of nervous system.

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

Cute. But brain-stem does not equal unconcious. There's no "mind" in there in the lay sense.

Define "mind", Mr. Neuroscience.
You seem to have all the answers in absolute terms (even though an absolute is an abstract idea especially in science). So define it.

You obviously know everything there is to know.

You CAN process sensory input to a limited extent without being fully aware of what it is you're experiencing; but there's no evidence that there is a mental infrastructure below awareness that contains motives or a sense of self.

So by your definition a sense of self does not exist. Tell me, does that mean that I am like a computer? Incapable of creating thought, but merely responding to an environment?

Or, everything in the universe just is the way it is, and we find ourselves imposing explanations everywhere, because explanations let us make predictions about our future interactions with objects.

One explanation could be;

We find explanations because of our curious nature. As humans.

Have you ever observed monkeys at the zoo? They're very smart, this is due to their inquisitive nature mixed and of course their mental cappacity. Same with us.

 

[diplomatic_lies]

More "new age" self-actualization - "me generation" bullshyt that has been pushed in the last 40 years! Wake up - this is part of The Matrix!

For once, I agree with you (and now hell freezes over).

I'm sick of this whole self-actualization crap. There's no meaning to life, it's what you make of it. If you think life is all about booze and hookers, and there's nothing more...then go for it and have fun!

Someday you will die, kids will pee on your grave, you will be forgotten...but the universe will still go on. The planet will keep on revolving, the sun will keep on shining, and life will continue. Your existence means NOTHING to anyone but yourself.

 

[Holland]

I'm sick of this whole self-actualization crap. There's no meaning to life, it's what you make of it. If you think life is all about booze and hookers, and there's nothing more...then go for it and have fun!

Uhm.... I believe all these ideas support that.

The purpose of life is the purpose you give yourself.
You set your own goals. You do what you enjoy.
You choose to be the person you want to be.


The last line in the Secret:

"Be easy about this, have fun with this. There is nothing you are supposed to do. Only that which you want to do." - Esther Hicks

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

I'll let this sound "Smug", but I don't care.

First...I'd say about half the people who will see the Secret and/or read the book will have done PRIOR work in the books and fields I've studied. The other half won't have done anything, and will gravitate toward The Secret, like people gravitate towards Triangles, Pyramids, and Dianetics. The people who are complaining about kool-aid drinking lemmings are complaining about the same people who will find a new fad in a year. Forget those flighty people who no basis in reality, and never will. The problem isn't them or the Secret, it's you and your opinion of how reality should be. There will ALWAYS be a crop of people who flock like seagulls to "new age" miracle trash. There's another crop who seek to build the repitoire if information using resources like the Secret to build their OWN model.

Second...and more importantly...no one guy on here can tell me one thing about information I know to work in everyday life. Not one guy can stand and do anything but seek to debate me, unless they've read what I've read. I can't argue or conversate with STR8UP on Real Estate...Unless I've done my homework and have both textbook/academic AND real world experience. That would be like an AFC who hasn't had a woman arguing with ANY of you guys on HOW to get women...and based on the responses many posts get from KBJ's, I think most guys know where I'm coming from here.

I don't care whether you PERSONALLY believe, when at 26, I've had more incidents in my own life to speak to the contrary; I lived and read. You telling me what to believe, is akin to telling a Catholic or Protestant, Christian, Muslim, etc that they are wrong...when they personally have witnessed inexplicable miracles. I realize...at that point...you want to espouse how THEY manufactured something with their own mind based on cognitive biases and that it's "coincidence". Fine. Your belief. Not mine. Doesn't make me delusional if it's EFFECTIVE.

I don't ignore the laws of gravity, or speed, or mass, so I'm not a new age flunky and junky. I read, I research, I take notes, I act on it. I don't chuck anything away because some one page article in a magazine tells me to, without actually reading more on it, AND testing it. And personally...I don't care if anyone uses it here. To each his own. There's lots of stuff I don't use here. So my main point is...who cares? No one here is a card carrying member of Mensa AND has a PhD (only b/c I know 2 mensa members, I know it's popular, so I threw in the PhD part). I respect alot of members here, but I don't respect the methods and tactics.

What purpose does this serve?
Ego Gratification?
Does it better SS?
Does it debunk a cult that was leading people astray? [I haven't heard of ANY damage caused or people dropping their religions over it]

What I surmise HAS happened was...people bought the video and book and began paying more attention to their thoughts and what they want. Maybe even more people went out and bought the individual author's work's as well. As I've said...NLP has a foothold here...and if you want to take on the WHOLE academic community that supports thinking in this direction go for it. Debunk everything. But I'd rather have a focus group, or discussion ON it, or on GETTING more of what I want.

So I don't see how any arguing the contrary here makes sense. Countless thought and time has been wasted on a meaningless topic, WHEN, it could been better spent deriving new ways to meet, attract, and lay women...or new sexual encounters, or whatever POSITIVE thing you want in your life. But no, " I disagree with the secret because it contradicts my ego, or MY reality, or I don't get it, or I want to look smarter than other people, so I'll thread upon thread talking about it, regurgitating well thought out posts from other people and splice my own thought in. All this RATHER than, working on ASKING better questions. Providing BETTER advice. LEARNING to speak better. Learning about a new topic I didn't know about."

If anything, this topic was a spirited lesson in learning how to debate, because as I posted, it really got nowhere. If you want to take beef with the video and it's producer's, fine. But as I posted some 100 threads ago...those who KNOW what the secret represents, take it for what it is. A collaborative work that reflects all PRIOR work done by greater minds. It's a contribution, not the be all end all of thinking work to be done. It's not a new found religion. It hopefully has done more for people than this thread by turning them onto monitoring their thinking and perhaps paying a small stipend to learn about their thoughts. The rest see the secret as a stand alone project, doomed to provide excessive hope and results, only to fail. When those who know where it's good comes from...KNOW how to view it and take it. The points you're stuck on force you to miss the actual goods points. But as I started out saying...I don't care what you believe or don't believe, that's your reality. This is mine. I know thus far what works for me and what doesn't.


Thank You,


A-Unit

 

[Holland]

I think James Ray summed it up nice in latest Larry King Live on the Secret quoting:

All truth passes through three stages: First: It is ridiculed; Second: It is violently opposed; and Third: It is accepted as self-evident

Nice work on the violently opposing.
Only one more step to go, skeptics

 

[whistler]

All truth passes through three stages: First: It is ridiculed; Second: It is violently opposed; and Third: It is accepted as self-evident

Nice work on the ridiculing

 

[belividere]

I'll let this sound "Smug", but I don't care.

First...I'd say about half the people who will see the Secret and/or read the book will have done PRIOR work in the books and fields I've studied. The other half won't have done anything, and will gravitate toward The Secret, like people gravitate towards Triangles, Pyramids, and Dianetics. The people who are complaining about kool-aid drinking lemmings are complaining about the same people who will find a new fad in a year. Forget those flighty people who no basis in reality, and never will. The problem isn't them or the Secret, it's you and your opinion of how reality should be. There will ALWAYS be a crop of people who flock like seagulls to "new age" miracle trash. There's another crop who seek to build the repitoire if information using resources like the Secret to build their OWN model.

I don't ignore the laws of gravity, or speed, or mass, so I'm not a new age flunky and junky. I read, I research, I take notes, I act on it. I don't chuck anything away because some one page article in a magazine tells me to, without actually reading more on it, AND testing it. And personally...I don't care if anyone uses it here. To each his own. There's lots of stuff I don't use here. So my main point is...who cares? No one here is a card carrying member of Mensa AND has a PhD (only b/c I know 2 mensa members, I know it's popular, so I threw in the PhD part). I respect alot of members here, but I don't respect the methods and tactics.

What purpose does this serve?
Ego Gratification?
Does it better SS?
Does it debunk a cult that was leading people astray? [I haven't heard of ANY damage caused or people dropping their religions over it]

A-unit you write very long poetic replies passive aggressively denoting thoughs that disagree with you when you yourself are obviously seeking ego gratification. MENSA is a means to self gratification. Getting a PhD in physical science or engineering, when a better job (or career favors those who dont carry on higher ed) could be found. There are a number of valid reports in journals comparing lifetime earnings of PhD holding scientists to BS holding scientists or engineers to confirm this. American, European and Australian born scientists and engineers can make more money not getting PhDs. If it was an ego thing I would have dropped out of school 10 yrs ago to start a company and show everyone how smart I was as a dropout. Instead I wanted to go on and teach scientific thought and methods to future generations with little profit.

I watched the secret in its entirety once. The spirit of Ramtha that was channeled in the narrator made a disgrace of modern physics much like John Haglund did when he ran for the libertarian presidential candidate in 98. If Heisenberg or Schoedinger saw this video they would cringe in disgust. Collective energy that can cause levitation? Seems more like collective exploitation that can cause people to agree without independent thought.

If you want to read the most up to date (and most debated) text tying quantum phenomenon to consciousness read Penrose's books like the emperors new mind or the nature of space and time. His ideas have been debated (by neuroscience and physicists). Another truly inquisitive text was Schroedinger's "What is Life?" published 40 yrs before Watson and Crick discovered the structure of DNA.

I guess I dont care if I sound smug replying to your last two posts either. You can believe that the positive energy of your thoughts will create the greatest possible universe to live in, I'll take my own take life in stride and overcome obstacles standpoint and roll with it. As per the meaning of this site if a girl doesn't want to be with me, well then a girl doesn't want to be with me. There is no amount of positive thinking, other than fvck it move on, that will actually provide me with furthering my own life. Being stuck in the whole I think therefore I am mindset doesn't get me anywhere.

 

[Holland]

As per the meaning of this site if a girl doesn't want to be with me, well then a girl doesn't want to be with me.

That just means you need more skill. That's just the way things are at that moment. Not the way things will be forever.

The past does not equal the future

As for some more ranting on the skeptics out there:

Anyone seen the Larry King Live show.
It's available at: http://jamesray.com/resources/larry-king-live.php
Along with the previous episodes.

If you look at someone like James Ray or Bob Proctor, you just can't deny that they know what they are talking about.
Bob Proctor is 72 yo and look what he embodies.
Same goes for guys like Brian Tracy etc.
They have made MILLIONS using these principles.
If you can't accept that fact there is not much hope for you, you are an ignorant moron who can't be helped.

Learn from those who get the RESULTS (isn't that one of the KEY IDEAS of this website?), rather than the 'intelligent' proffesor/debater/scientist.

 

[belividere]

That just means you need more skill. That's just the way things are at that moment. Not the way things will be forever.

Are you serious? I've been dating at least two girls for as long as I've wanted to give girls time in my life. I've really never given the dating advice on this site (mainly from people like you who dont know a situation, but pretend to be experts) any credence.

As for some more ranting on the skeptics out there:

Anyone seen the Larry King Live show.
It's available at: http://jamesray.com/resources/larry-king-live.php
Along with the previous episodes.

Last I checked Larry King has never made an actual difference I the world. Instead he just interviews people who have, and thats arguable since he mainly just interviews those that he is told to interview. It is almost the same as saying Colbert once interviewed the head of the human genome project therefore he has made a difference in genetic research.

If you look at someone like James Ray or Bob Proctor, you just can't deny that they know what they are talking about.
Bob Proctor is 72 yo and look what he embodies.
Same goes for guys like Brian Tracy etc.
They have made MILLIONS using these principles.
If you can't accept that fact there is not much hope for you, you are an ignorant moron who can't be helped.

Learn from those who get the RESULTS (isn't that one of the KEY IDEAS of this website?), rather than the 'intelligent' proffesor/debater/scientist.

This is half of my argument. Money does not equal intelligence. I gave up a lot of money to get a graduate degree and then to be an academic engineer (scientist) when I could have just gotten a BS and joined the workforce.

I'm sorry that I'm an ignorant moron who holds rights to patents which will be sold by the university that I got my graduate degree at and not make any money because I was more worried about the sake of human health instead of my own profit. Next time I should take a page out of a money hungry business mans book instead of a humanitarian scientist who doesn't expect monetary returns.

Or better yet, when your mother gets osteoporosis and needs a hip replacement that I helped to develop while living a couple of hundred of dollars above the poverty line I should come knock on your door and expect to be taken care of. Or 40 yrs from now when you get cancer and it is cured by work done by a biology graduate student making 21k a year working 60+ hrs a week who never sees any profit from curing the most deadly disease on earth, which you will get, he/she should have dropped out of school to chase down a million dollars because that is really all that matters. Yeah lets all push for our own self profit and think that our positive energy can give us more positive energy and enrich our capitalistic consumer lifestyle instead of caring for the everyday advancement of society. Perhaps this will cause our quantum fields to align and then we can avoid diseases from a subatomic level.

Sorry for the rant but yeah, to me that is the KEY IDEAs of this website. I'd rather die poor having changed the lifes of people who dont have any idea I existed, or give any graditude to me, than be idolized by those whose have no other value in life than profit.

Anyways half of you guys should align your qi, shakras, or energy fields, and just focus on moving out of your parents basement.