Is it Ever Right to Call a Woman a Second Time if She Doesn't Return Your Call?

[Frank2500]

I was wondering if any of you folks on here think it's ever worth calling a woman a second time after she gives you her number but doesn't return your call. When I was in my early 20s, I called a second time and that worked out with only about two women. Now that I'm almost 30 and trying to shut off the AFC tendencies, I've developed a personal philosophy of not running after women and of never calling a woman again if she doesn't return my call. I got two phone numbers recently from some women at my gym and neither of them called me back when I called and left a message. Yet, when we had our face-to-face conversation, I thought the vibe was quite positive and that there was potential for chemistry. One of the women was the really big booty woman I had been trying to talk to for almost a year at my gym. The other one was an older chick at my gym I just met this week.


I remain inclined not to bother calling them because based on personal experience, a lot of these women just love attention. They love nothing more than a guy acting desperate by calling them over and over even though he knows deep inside that the chances of him getting called back are slim to none. Then you put them in positions of power and when you run into them again in places like the gym, they expect you to barely be able to walk with your head up or to look at them in the eye when you walk past them. Heck, during my early 20s and AFC days, I remember meeting women who agreed to go out on a date with me some time, gave me their phone numbers, but then suddenly told me that they had boyfriends and couldn't go out with me for a date. One of them claimed that "you are a very attractive guy, and it was hard to resist." American women just amaze me.



But I think not calling these women ever again and continuing to go on with my life in general and at the gym with confidence, and not giving them any attention communicates that I'm not desperate and that if anything, I see myself as the prize and have other options.

 

[seth]

Well, I live in the much famed Eastern Europe, and I tell you, even TODAY I have had this happen. Just like you, I had good initial interaction, then I call, and they don't answer or call back. It is amazing how rudeness and *******ness are simply part of the game today.
My question is different then yours. I'm thinking of leaving them text messages with some simple insult like "Bicth!", just to know somewhere in this world there's a guy who can see through their crap.

 

[Frank2500]

Re:

I don't think sending them text messages saying "*****" would be appropriate. Here in the US, doing something like that could get you in trouble. There are all kinds of laws in this country and as far as law enforcement is concerned here in the US, women have a lot of power. Do something like that and all she needs to do is call the cops to say that you're harrassing and threatening her. Heck, you could happen to be walking several feet behind a woman you don't even know and if she wants, all she has to do is tell a cop that you're stalking her and they'll put you in handcuffs and give you a ride to the station before asking you any questions.


For me personally, I think I've past that stage to be chasing after women. At 29, I'm a bit too old to be doing this. I mean, why would I for example call a woman a second time who I met on a Tuesday, called on a Thursday to try to set up a date for Saturday and yet, who never called me back? Not calling back sends a clear message and calling even a second time only makes her feel more powerful. I don't give such women that opportunity. I mean, I met two women years ago who took my own number but didn't give me theirs, yet they still called me much later when I least expected it. But if a woman gives you hers and it's the right number and she doesn't return your call, I think it's definitely not worth wasting one's time trying to call again.

 

[guru1000]

Never call a second time.

Remember you are looking for you a girl with high interest or you are not interested.

Not returning a phone call, is a breach of respect. You are most important to you. Never compromise your integrity.

Even if you have no self respect or integrity, and you call this girl a second time, you immediately set the frame that she is of higher value. At that point, the rapport is dead. So you lose your self respect and the girl as well.

At the end of the day, all you are left with is you.

Let's as well look at the psychology of the man-woman relationship. Why do they say "You are the prize". At the beginning or throughout the relationship, if the WOMAN IS LED TO BELIEVE SHE IS OF HIGHER VALUE, THE RELATIONSHIP IS OVER.

There is only one way for a Man-Woman relationship to exist harminously. You, as the man, ALWAYS have to be of equal or higher value. You as the symbol of stability, support and a PILLAR OF STRENGTH will always NEED TO BE OF HIGHER VALUE.

Back to the OP question and to repeat; You cannot call twice because you set the frame of lower value by doing do. It is immediately over.

The key is to try to make the woman chase you. If that cannot be accomplished, paint the picture as if she is. TRY TO HOOK HER AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, THEN LAY YOUR IRON FIST DOWN.

 

[Frank2500]

Re:

That's exactly where I stand on this, guru. You spoke as if you could read my mind. I guess one of the positive things about having been through a lot of painful dating experiences over and over, is that you gain experience. Those experiences make you develop a spine, solidify your heart and almost basically make you immune to the wounds of the dating scene here in America. And with American women, you need that kind of resilience and thick-skinned nature to survive a lot of the crap that you're gonna have to deal with on a regular basis.

 

[DJDamage]

I say fvck it, give her a call what's the worst that can happen? Its better to know she is not interested then assume she is not interested, sh1t happens.

If I get a number, the first couple of time I don't expect a woman to call me at all. What I do expect is that when I call to make a date, that she will show up to the date. There is no need for her to call me back to chitchat, that is what I am going to be doing on the date. After the third date, that's when you should expect a call back cause you already have some sort rapport with this women, she is more comfortable around you and you can tell things are headed on the right direction.

 

[Frank2500]

Re:

DJDamage, I completely understand your point, but I'm still more inclined to agree with guru and stand firm by not calling this woman back. I've done that so far with three women already--all from my gym and when I had a chance to run into them again after that, I could tell from the looks in their eyes that a lot of them seemed shocked to see that I never attempted to reach them more than once. This issue of equal or higher value and of being a challenge and a mystery is very important in terms of American dating. If anyone knows this first hand, it is me, based on countless painful experiences that I have had. You never want to put a woman in a position of power like that.


The fact of the matter is that if this most recent woman at my gym who I met on Tuesday this week and called on Thursday to try setting up a date for today (Saturday) isn't calling me back, it sends a clear message. If she wanted to meet me for the date, she would have called me back. I don't think it is right to assume that a woman would show up at a proposed location for a date when she isn't even returning your call. That's an easy way to end up being stood up and return home even more disappointed and discouraged. I have past that stage of letting women constantly feel they are of higher value than me. It ain't gonna happen and I'm sticking with my decision. I personally think that when you don't call a woman more than once, it shows her that she's not the only woman in the world and that her decision not to call you has a very minimal if any impact upon your life.

 

[joekerr31]

just like we talk about how to keep the upper hand with women (ie. the frame), there are women out there who are skilled in gaining the upper hand over a man.

this could easily be a simple tactic of gaining that upper hand. if you call a second or third time she's established the frame that she is the prize and you are lucky she is giving you the time of day. also, remember, there are women out there who have read stupid books on how to catch a man - books that give stupid advice like 'never call him back, make him chase you.'

the question merely becomes do you want to deal with a woman who is controlling the frame and try to reverse it once you are dating her.

but theres no question that either her IL is low or she is playing games.

if you aren't interested in such a woman, then dont bother calling her back.

if you're just looking to tap that *ss, then you can play her games until you hit it, then quit it.

 

[STR8UP]

Back to the OP question and to repeat; You cannot call twice because you set the frame of lower value by doing do. It is immediately over.

There is some truth to this, however, I see no harm in trying ONE MORE TIME.

With women its two strikes, you're out.

The whole key to this is recognizing when you are wasting your time. A quick phone call a second time around isn't much time lost, and although I agree that it does tend to set the wrong frame, you can't expect every woman you meet to be falling over herself for a date with her right after you get her number. If she DOES return the second call it's not that hard to create that attraction on a first date and re establich the frame.

 

[joekerr31]

There is some truth to this, however, I see no harm in trying ONE MORE TIME.

With women its two strikes, you're out.

and we also have to remember there are lots of women who have been conditioned by AFCs to bust your balls. heck, she probably does this with all guys and 90% of them just keep calling back over and over and over until they reach her.

the only thing i will say is that once you've been with a mature, respectful woman who doesn't play this kind of crap, your tolerance level for it goes way down and so does your interest in women who do it.

 

[armadon]

I always in debate with myself in calling back a second time. I know when I call the second time I delete the number and if she calls she calls. She did put herself on the sh*t list though and it wil take a bunch of work to get off it. If she can make her way of my sh*t list then I know she wants to make something work.

I want to clarify though that the second call back is only after I have been on a date with the women and the date went average or better. If I haven't been out with her before the number gets thrown away after the first non call back.

 

[Frank2500]

Re:

Ain't gonna call a second time, guys. I've been through several experiences like this in the past during my AFC days and I'm way past that stage at this point and age in my life. A lot of the helpful advice we receive on this site talks a lot about being able to understand the hints shallow women give, and to judge them by action and not by looks or empty words. I've certainly learned to do that. No matter how badly I may want to be intimate with a woman or how big I think her butt may be, I will never compromise my respect. Once you put them in positions of power, that's pretty much it. You lose respect and earning it back becomes extremely difficult.

 

[joekerr31]

Once you put them in positions of power, that's pretty much it. You lose respect and earning it back becomes extremely difficult.

extremely difficult? try impossible. even if you can recover it short term, long term they will always remember that there is an AFC lurking in you, and that no matter how thick the vault is that you buried him, if they take a sledge hammer to you they will be able to set him free.

plus, i just don't understand why guys have an interest in trying to reverse low IL. i mean, its REALLY hard to do. and even if you can get it up to high IL, the odds of it dropping back down to low IL are way higher.

better to game the chics who at least have moderate IL in you.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I'd wait like a month, and then leave a message where you are so excited that it sounds like you just won the lottery:

omg, you would not believe what just happened! Call me back.

or

I have a secret that I'm dying to tell someone. I have not told a single person yet. Do you want to hear it?


Curiosity is powerful in women; they are like cats that way. When they call back, you are on your own. Laugh at them for being so interested in you, and tell them it's a long story and you'll tell them over coffee/dinner/drinks whatever.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

and we also have to remember there are lots of women who have been conditioned by AFCs to bust your balls. heck, she probably does this with all guys and 90% of them just keep calling back over and over and over until they reach her.

the only thing i will say is that once you've been with a mature, respectful woman who doesn't play this kind of crap, your tolerance level for it goes way down and so does your interest in women who do it.

:yes: All true. Don't become a nuisance like an AFC and it should be all good. She'll either call back and touch base or she won't. Either way it's an opportunity to gage her IL. Truly interested women will give you the chance to raise her IL; ones who aren't interested or more interested in game playing will do something completely different.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

And remember, turn your caller ID off every now and then so she won't know who's calling, just "private number."

I don't know about you guys but any calls from private numbers drop really low onto my "need to answer" list.

 

[joekerr31]

And remember, turn your caller ID off every now and then so she won't know who's calling, just "private number."

wtf? i would never do this. nothing screams afc like tricking her into taking yoru call.

 

[ketostix]

Here's some of my thoughts on this situation relative to you Frank. I agree with Str8up in that you should give it two tries set something up, with the second attempt coming a few days later. If she doesn't come through on your second attempt you probably should drop her. You haven't lost anything by showing her some interest. And if you call a couple times and then do a take away it has more effectiveness.

For girls who you will see in say the gym some point later, it still applies, but if she's ignored your first call and you're going to see her at the gym most likely in a day or two, you probably should ignore her at the gym, maybe even talk to other girls. Then if you do decide to call her again you should have a little more leverage. The main thing is you do have to show some interest and pursue the girl some, that's what will make your take aways all the more effective if she's flaky. You just don't want to show too much interest and keep showing her interest after she's flaked. It's generally good for you to play hot and cold with her and insert jealous anywhere you can.

 

[Apollo]

Try calling once, if she doesn't pickup then don't leave a message. Call a second time a few days later and leave a message. Leave it at that.

Frank, when you left a message what did you say?

 

[STR8UP]

Try calling once, if she doesn't pickup then don't leave a message. Call a second time a few days later and leave a message. Leave it at that.

Exactly.

At that point all you have lost is a few minutes of your time.

I'm all about walking away, making sure you don't "give her power", but at that point you really have nothing to lose.

And although I don't know if I would do it in this case, Bible Belt's curiosity idea is GOLD.

I sometimes chat online with this chick I know who is going to school up north. No doubt she's a typical college chick and is either chatting with two other people, or doing homework, or SOMETHING that is distracting.

I noticed whenever she's drifting out of the convo, if I say something like "guess what?" she will respond "what?" Then I will say something like "nevermind....i probably shouldn't say anything". By the time we go back and forth a couple of times I have her FULL attention. She's DYING to know the "secret".

If you follow something like this up with a JUICY story, something about sex, it's REALLY easy to make her horny as hell. Actually anything that is scandalous will get her attention, but talking about sex is the best.

I'm gonna have to start using this more often. It's so damn easy to make the generic statement up front, banter back and forth for a minute until you think of a story. Fun fun!