Iron Rules of Tomassi

[Rollo Tomassi]

If people want to address these rules individually I'm always game. It's just collecting them all in one undebatable manifesto that's like playing a big game of whack-a-mole for me.

 

[Colossus]

If people want to address these rules individually I'm always game. It's just collecting them all in one undebatable manifesto that's like playing a big game of whack-a-mole for me.

Actually Rollo, if you have all 12 handy and are willing to PM them I would love a copy. Not for debate purposes, just my own reading. I remember doing a search on them a while ago.

Ive also recruited a promising young jedi to the boards who could benefit as well.

 

[Latinoman]

Unless it's for religious reasons, or an extremely quality woman who has integrity, values, and ultimately what we are looking for for a LTR...if a woman makes you wait.

1) It's a power play.

or

2) She has low IL. You need to raise it or next her.

OR

3) She does not trust you (e.g. feel you are going to use her or health reasons)

4) Health reasons

5) Emotional problems (note: she could be married and want to have an affair, but it is unsure)


The point is...it could be anything.

Having said that...if you are ALREADY in a relationship...and a woman denies you sex (after giving you some). You can rest assure that is a power move.

 

[Latinoman]

Some good, some bad. I disagree with the "don't move in with a girl til you marry her", because I never plan to marry. TBH though I have no plans to move in with anyone anytime soon. We're talking at least 5 years til I'd even consider it, and even then only after a bare minimum of 6 months.

Incidentally, if I was to marry, I'd actually have them move in for a while BEFORE marrying them to get an idea what they're like as an everyday person.


Also, nothing wrong with self-depreciation. If you constantly throw C+F and nesg at a girl, only to sulk when she tries to rip into you, you're just going to look over-sensitive. Don't make out like you have flaws you're ashamed of and don't make a big deal of taking the p!ss out of yourself, but do mock yourself now and then to keep it balanced.


The rest of it seems okay though, not quite iron rules I'd have myself but they seem sound enough.

Dude...you have a LOT to learn. A LOT.

These two rules happen to be the ones I probably agree the most (at least from the list in this thread).

 

[Mr. Me]

Also, nothing wrong with self-depreciation. If you constantly throw C+F and nesg at a girl, only to sulk when she tries to rip into you, you're just going to look over-sensitive.

Hey guys, the term is "self deprecation".

I'm not sure you have the right take on what it is. It's about making humor concerning your own shortcomings. That's different than laughing at yourself when another person makes a jest about you. Laughing at yourself shows a healthy sense of self-esteem (if it was meant in humor. If it was a disrespectful dig, that's handled differently).

The idea not to engage in self-deprecating humor is to avoid portraying yourself as a Woody Allen type low esteem character. It's best pulled off sparingly with a tongue in cheek, wink in the eye manner indicating it's obviously absurd and not applicable. Think Adam Corolla.

You are all wrong about the IL thing having to do with a chick waiting to have sex.

Everybody's so anxious to get laid! You'd think sex is getting its spigot turned off soon or something! What guys miss is how incredibly horny you can get a gal to be for you by being the one that makes her wait!

 

[Latinoman]

Laugh if you drop coffee or if your hat was blown by the wind. That is called: Laughing at TRIVIAL situations. And it is more than fine.

But laughing at your shortcomings? That's NOT a masculine trade. And perhaps you can pull that out when dealing with High School girls.

Adam Corolla? Dude, how old are you? 17? No offense, but that is what's wrong with television. Since when Adam Corolla is the symbol of masculinity?

Having a great sense of humor is excellent. "F&C" covers that area more than enough.

I don't play the "let me make her wait" game.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I don't play the "let me make her wait" game.

me, either


But laughing at your shortcomings? That's NOT a masculine trait.

ah, hell, fwiw I laugh at everything and everybody, it is only fair that I include myself. The humor is more important than my ego. I try to laugh at whatever is funny and disregard concepts of self and ego. I have begun to learn some Eastern philosophy and notice that it often involves the idea of self as an artificial construct. Enlightenment would involve no longer noticing that there is a you at all.

I should add that I do see self-deprecation overdone in a lot of guys with low self-esteem. Guys should not be constantly ripping on themselves; that is a sign of larger problems.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I'm not sure you have the right take on what it is. It's about making humor concerning your own shortcomings. That's different than laughing at yourself when another person makes a jest about you. Laughing at yourself shows a healthy sense of self-esteem (if it was meant in humor. If it was a disrespectful dig, that's handled differently).

This is exactly the AFC mentality I'd expect in response to this. Re-read the rule more closely:

Iron Rule of Tomassi #9

NEVER SELF-DEPRECATE under any circumstance. This is a Kiss of Death that you self-initiate and is the antithesis of the PRIZE mentality. Once you've accepted yourself as a "complete douche" there's no going back to confidence with a woman. Never appeal to a woman's sympathies, her sympathies are given by her own volition, NEVER when they are begged for. Even if you don't seriously consider yourself pathetic, it never serves your best interest to paint yourself as pathetic. Self-Depreciation is a misguided tool for the AFC, and not something a true DJ will ever consider.

That said self-deprecation is pervasive and something that I myself have been guilty of in the past. You have to be hyper-aware of it and unlearn it. You have to catch yourself in mid-sentence so to speak. Women operate in the sub-communications and when you OVERTLY admit to a lack of confidence you may as well just LJBF yourself. That's a strong impression you wont recover from. Women want a compitent, confident, decisive Man not one who's self-image is that of a "complete douche" or even a partial douche. I should add that when you become hyper-aware of this you can also turn it to your own advantage when AMOGing or you're working a girl with a self-depreciative BF or other suitor. It's all too easy to reinforce her estimation of a guy like this by covertly confirming it for her, while at the same time playing up your own confidence and value.

All of this is not to say that it's wrong to recognize your own weaknesses and understanding when you're in the wrong. It's simply how you go about addressing them that's the point. We had a thread here not too long ago about admitting when both of you are wrong and this got me to thinking about healthy ways of communicating this. There are plenty of way to assume the responsibilties of fault that aren't self-depreciating. The easiest way is to always adopt the attitude that you're 'getting better all the time'. This mentality fosters confidence and projects ambition, whereas self-depreciation shoves your nose in the dog sh!t and says "please love me anyway?"

This Rule was pulled from an independent thread where the guy actually referred to himself as a "complete douche" in an IM conversation he'd had. You have to see this in context, this is why you're jumping to the AFC binary position that I'm saying that you should never look bad, always take yourself seriously or have no sense of humor about yourself. That's categorically NOT what this Rule is about.

Rather, it draws attention to an AFC mental schema that proposes the more a guy is willing to reduce himself the more a woman will be endeared to him. It's one thing to laugh at yourself when you slip on a banana peel, it's entirely another to maintain an attitude of lower value about yourself and expect it to be some characteristic women will sympathize with or be attracted to. I had a girl just this day tell me about how automatically turned off she was to a guy who'd confessed he "wasn't very good with women." This isn't good natured laughing at oneself, it is casual self-deprecation that women very readily interpret in the covert as being a sign of low confidence in a low competition value male. Being self-deprecating is a continual state of having to apologize for yourself; and more often than not it's apology for masculine traits that would otherwise be a strength.

 

[Mr. Me]

Rollo, I was defining what self deprecation is, because it seems some posters have a somewhat wrong sense of the term. I was by no means advocating it. Additionally I pointed out how it could be done, if it's done well. When it's done well, it doesn't come off as self deprecating. That's the irony. It comes off as flippant, confident. The danger is, most guys don't have the wit, or from what I see, the intelligence, to know how to do it well, therefore, it's better for them to not try it at all and keep to your rule. Especially they shouldn't try given they don't have the meaning correct.

 

[WestCoaster]

I'd like to have all 12 rules

I'd like to read all 12 rules on this site. I find I agree with most of what RT writes, not everything, but I don't agree 100 percent with anyone and neither do others here. But RT has me nodding about 60-75 percent of the time, and that's really high when someone puts a personal philosophy out there. With me, hitting on a 50 percent agreement would be very high.

So if people want to twist it to suit their agendas, fine. I think the educational importance of having it out there outweighs keeping it top secret because it might get misinterpreted.

I don't agree with all of the DJ Bible, how some football coaches call plays, how some novels were written, how various songs were composed, but I'm glad they're all out there. The educational value outweighs the debate on the 12 rules.

 

[LoneSilver]

Under any circumstances DON'T let a woman however ugly, attractive or sweet she appears validate you as a man. Any man who is drawing attention to his short coming's is a man seeking validation from a woman and not the frame a man should have and it is no doubt low self esteem.

I use to think if I as a man would share my deepest secrets with an attractive woman she would be impressed with my honesty in which she was it only made it easier for her to judge me as NEXT GUY PLEASE as insecurity is a big turn off as it was projecting self esteem issues. The woman isn't going to be your momma and make you cookies.

I was nothing more an attractive looser instead of me thinking it would build something more closer in relation to a long term relationship and even a screw for that matter. Drawing attention to anything that makes you feel less a man don't work.

Now I have a bigger challenge facing me.

The past couple years have been challenging since this disability has come upon me. I have to dig deeper each and everyday and remind myself regardless of how I might feel in social situations with women I am attracted to to keep it to myself. It suck's when you have a rare eye condition that can't be corrected by any type surgery and you have to face the world each day with insecurities that never were there before especially physical when interacting with women. It creates alot of undue stress and nervousness I have never felt before as a man and I know the women feel it.

I know I can't tell them how I really feel that I don't feel attractive enough anymore to the opposite sex because of my eyes as I have yet to date or be with a woman since this condition has grown worst. It's like starting life over again with a different face I have to take baby steps to try an overcome this and at my age I think is it really worth it anymore.

LoneSilver

 

[eyedogg]

Lonsilver,

Brother - hang in there man! I can't say I have anything physically challenging me and that should be a STRONG message to other MEN in here; that if you have all your physical abilities - stop being a big fat WIMP and stand up. Don't be scared, don't be shy - Sarge your way through life - NOT the other way around.

Regards,
eyedogg

 

[iqqi]

Rollo, I was defining what self deprecation is, because it seems some posters have a somewhat wrong sense of the term. I was by no means advocating it. Additionally I pointed out how it could be done, if it's done well. When it's done well, it doesn't come off as self deprecating. That's the irony. It comes off as flippant, confident. The danger is, most guys don't have the wit, or from what I see, the intelligence, to know how to do it well, therefore, it's better for them to not try it at all and keep to your rule. Especially they shouldn't try given they don't have the meaning correct.

I agree. A man that can make fun of himself comes across as much more confident than a man who is too insecure to seem without flaws. Nothing is MORE a turn off than a man who is too serious about himself!

One of the sexiest guys I met last year was terrific at self deprecation - it was witty, fun, and a total turn ON.

Now he wasn't beating himself up or anything, just rolling with the punches so to speak, as in taking a punch, delivering one himself even, but he carried if off very well because it was obvious he respected himself and felt comfortable with himself, and most importantly... he didn't take himself TOO seriously.


However, there is a difference between that^^^ and just being self critical OUTLOUD in the presense of a chick. A BIG difference with self depreciation and self critical behavior.

 

[Latinoman]

I agree. A man that can make fun of himself comes across as much more confident than a man who is too insecure to seem without flaws. Nothing is MORE a turn off than a man who is too serious about himself!

Terrible advice. Terrible.

Every man has flaws. It is one thing to ADMIT those flaws. It is a complete different issue to make FUN of those flaws.

A man that admit he has flaws, is a confident man (As this kind of men can use "C&F" on other issues to light things out). A man that makes fun of his shortcoming and flaws...is a clown. And is desperatelly looking for sympathy.

Iqqi...I have had success with women (affairs, short-term, long-term, and VERY-long term). I know what I am talking about and I know what it takes to keep women interest level high...for YEARS.

 

[iqqi]

Iqqi...I have had success with women (affairs, short-term, long-term, and VERY-long term). I know what I am talking about and I know what it takes to keep women interest level high...for YEARS.

And I am sure you are the only one!

I am sure your way works for you.

I am not talking clowns, I am talking men who don't take themselves TOO seriously. Honest assessment: You do.

 

[Latinoman]

One of the sexiest guys I met last year was terrific at self deprecation - it was witty, fun, and a total turn ON.

If he was SHORT or OBESE or UNEMPLOYED or SMELLED BAD or had DANDRUF or YELLOW TEETH or had ANGRY ISSUES...do you think he could have pulled that out? Or a person that feel is okay to make jokes about his stupid mistakes?

Heck, I get picked on by women...sometimes about my accent or little situations that are "embarrassing"...and I laugh it out and they find it funny and sexy. But THEY are the ones initiating that. They are the ones making the fun...and I go along. It shows good sense of humor.

But I don't initiate that stuff.

 

[iqqi]

If he was SHORT or OBESE or UNEMPLOYED or SMELLED BAD or had DANDRUF or YELLOW TEETH or had ANGRY ISSUES...do you think he could have pulled that out? Or a person that feel is okay to make jokes about his stupid mistakes?

Heck, I get picked on by women...sometimes about my accent or little situations that are "embarrassing"...and I laugh it out and they find it funny and sexy. But THEY are the ones initiating that. They are the ones making the fun...and I go along. It shows good sense of humor.
But I don't initiate that stuff.

I'll agree with you kind of on that. You shouldn't point out things that are disgusting about you. However I have had someone make fun of their unemployed status, and it was funny. That is a temporary issue, and doesn't have to be a serious thing. As a matter of fact, I only agree with those nasty hygiene traits you pointed out, simply cuz it aint funny!

The anger issues can be funny, as can the short thing. But I agree, with the short thing, it shouldn't be YOU bringing it up. Then you sound like you have a complex.

 

[Latinoman]

Honest assessment: You do.

Your "ass"essments and "ass"umptions are making a double azz out of you.

And you are only ONE woman. A "mature" woman that hangs out with people that are 20 and 21. A "mature" woman that has not gotten laid or picked up by a man in a while or being in a meaningful relationship.

I am a man that have been, throughout my life, with MULTIPLE women of all ages (the oldest being 46). In all kind of relationships...including affairs, lovers, one-night-stands, short term relationships, long-term, and VERY long term relationships.

Making a woman LAUGH is very important. Using a well placed fun at one-self from time to time is cool too. But doing it several times...it is NOT. Even the best comedians that happen to be womanizers RARELY make fun of their shortcomings.

 

[iqqi]

And you are only ONE woman. A "mature" woman that hangs out with people that are 20 and 21. A "mature" woman that has not gotten laid or picked up by a man in a while or being in a meaningful relationship.

Um... what? Come on now. The only thing you said right was that, yes, I am only ONE woman, lol. I definately ain't TWO women, haha! And yes, I do have A friend that is 21. I have some that are 23, and 27, and 28, and 32, and so on as well.

But since your arguments against me have started to take a downward turn into flame baiting and irrationality, I shall be out! Peace out, Latinoman.

 

[azanon]

Azanon, I never understood this mentality:

If i'm getting it 3 "dates" or less (encounters, whatever), she's easy AFAIK. "Easy" was never a trait I wanted in my lifelong partner. At the very least, it'd go in the "con" column. At worst, it'd exclude her as a possible candidate.


I have never gotten laid later than the second date...ever. Your sour grapes mentality would tell you that these must be trailer park bimbos that I date, but most of them are law students, grad students, and successful intelligent women. It's foolish to hold it against them because I am able to seduce them. Occasionally, I will date one of your "quality" women who do not put out, and then I never call again. Quality to you is defective to me.

So are you saying it's an oxymoron for a woman to be an intelligent, or successful hor? To not get into an unnecessarily lengthy discussion, let me be brief and simply say this is possible.

"Holding it against them" is not the words I'd choose. Observing and concluding based upon recognition of reality is the way I think of it.

Remind me; are you divorced? I can't remember, but going on your viewpoints, you'd be a high candidate to be a divorced man. Your preferences are yours, and no one elses. If you prefer a hor even for a LTR, who am I to say you can't prefer them?

.......

Another reminder I've said several times in the past. I with you on loving a quick f***, and I'm one coersive SOB, but will I respect a woman that falls for me quickly? Probably not.

..............

Women have a lot at stake with casual sex. There's simply no avoiding it. Some great ideas and reasonings can be found in PRL's thread, the natural order of things. Then there's society's continued non-acceptance of hors. Then there are diseases which can affect the health of the baby. Then there's wondering if the hor behavior will suddenly come to an end in a LTR or marriage? I could go on and on. This was and always will be a "con" for me from the vantagepoint of potential LTR. Not unforgiveable, but like I said earlier, a "con" at minimum.