Iron Rules of Tomassi

[azanon]

I disagree about his sex rule. Not all women "withhold" sex as power play.

I have no choice but to disagree with this too. I married a woman who made me wait 4 months and boy was it worth it (although I was taking baby steps along the way). As for reasons why, she's very religious and just wasn't into handing out sex to any guy who tries.

I think you have to think dynamically when you're dating. If you're (only) out for sex, then toss ones like my wife away quickly. But if you're looking for the best possible life partner, it might make more sense to be a bit more flexible on the rules.

 

[romangod]

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

When women make you wait for sex you are not their highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It's sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to fukk you will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, ƒuck the sh!t out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work - women who want to ƒuck will find a way to ƒuck. The girl who tells you she wants a relationship first is the same girl who fukked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break half an hour after meeting him.

If a girl is that into you she'll ƒuck regardless of ASD or having her friends in the room videotaping it at a frat party. All women can be sluts, you just have to be the right guy to bring it out in them, and this happens before you go back to her place. If you have to plead your case cuddling and spooning on the bed or getting the occasional peck on the cheek, you need to go back to square one and start fresh.


Iron Rule of Tomassi #4

NEVER under any circumstance live with a woman you aren't married to or are not planning to marry in within 6 months.

You are utterly powerless in this situation. NEVER buy a home with a girlfriend, NEVER sign a rental lease with a girlfriend. NEVER agree to move into her home and absolutely NEVER move a woman into your own established living arrangement. I'm adamantly opposed to the "shacking up" dynamic, it is a trap that far too many men allow themselves to fall into. My fervor agianst this isn't based on some moral issue, it it simple pragmatism. I know a fellow right now who is in the pit of misery with a girl he signed an apartment lease with for a year and has had to basically live with his ex for the past 5 months and wont get out of the lease until May. If you live with a woman you may as well be married because upon doing so every liability and accountability of marriage is then in effect. You not only lose any freedom of annonymity you commit to, legally, being responsible for the continuation of your living arrangements regardless of how your relationship decays.

I should also emphasize the point that when you commit (and it is a financial committment) to cohabiting with a GF you will notice a marked decrease in her sexual availability and desire, trust me on this. All of that competitive anxiety and it's resulting sexual tension that made your single sex life so great is removed from her shoulders and she can comfortably relax in the knowledge that she is your ONLY source of sexual intimacy. Putting your name on that lease with her (even if it's just your name) is akin to signing an insurance polcy for her - "I the undersigned promise not to fukk any woman but this girl for a one year term." She thinks, "if he wasn't serious about me, he wouldn't have signed the lease." Now all of that impetus and energy that made having marathon sex with you an outright necessity is relaxed. She controls the frame and she's got it in writing that it is for at least a year.

Just don't do it. Relationships last best when you spin more plates or at the very least keep each other at arm's distance. Look how this applies to your situation here.


No Girlfriend is ALWAYS preferable to settling for any girlfriend.

Personally, I don't agree with Rule #3. A woman that makes you wait for sex until the right moment understands the power of sex and doesn't take a relationship lightly. If and when the relationship is consumated it will have more of a sublime effect on both partners. I've thought less of many women I've been with who gave me sex too easily. Spontaneous sex may be a chemical reaction but I like to think we are not animals. Unfortunately, it seems we are devolving back into unconscious animalism.

Rule #4 I totally agree with. The minute you move in with a woman who is not your wife you are at the mercy of unjust laws and are inches away from being ruined financially and emotionally. It's a terrible deal for men. When she is your wife it comes with other caveats. Choose wisely.

And finally, I totally agree that no girlfriend is preferable to settling for any girlfriend. Settling is the equivalent of drinking poison 24 hours a day. It's slow suicide.

.

 

[azanon]

I've thought less of many women I've been with who gave me sex too easily. Spontaneous sex may be a chemical reaction but I like to think we are not animals. Unfortunately, it seems we are devolving back into unconscious animalism.

Exactly. Hey, I'm all for a great f*** with a woman while you're single. But, again, I don't care how smooth you are, if you're able to pull it off in 3 dates or less, there's going to be a little red flag that should go up; at least from the vantagepoint of considering her as a possible lifelong partner.

I'm great with coersion, but there are plenty of men as equally adept at it as I am. If i'm getting it 3 "dates" or less (encounters, whatever), she's easy AFAIK. "Easy" was never a trait I wanted in my lifelong partner. At the very least, it'd go in the "con" column. At worst, it'd exclude her as a possible candidate.

 

[Mr.Positive]

I have no choice but to disagree with this too. I married a woman who made me wait 4 months and boy was it worth it (although I was taking baby steps along the way). As for reasons why, she's very religious and just wasn't into handing out sex to any guy who tries.

I think you have to think dynamically when you're dating. If you're (only) out for sex, then toss ones like my wife away quickly. But if you're looking for the best possible life partner, it might make more sense to be a bit more flexible on the rules.

I agree Azanon, however most women are not the quality that your wife is. Most women are completely inconsistent with this regard.

I recall recently a gal I was dating was 'making me wait', yet actually had the nerve to tell me that she has had one night stands in the past. Explain that! I will.

Bottom line, it wasn't apparent, but her actions showed me she had low IL in me...or lower IL. If a woman has high enough IL in the beginning, there will be no waiting period. She will want to jump in the sack and start enjoying sex asap.

Same for men, to some degree, but with lesser standards unfortunately. (As men, we should have higher standards in general.)

Unless it's for religious reasons, or an extremely quality woman who has integrity, values, and ultimately what we are looking for for a LTR...if a woman makes you wait.

1) It's a power play.

or

2) She has low IL. You need to raise it or next her.

 

[Beffing]

Some women would refrain from having sex too soon because it can confuse emotions. Some women value getting to know someone well before they share their bodies, or that kind of intimacy.

A wise move, anyways, IMO. Considering all the repercussions of sleeping with someone you really don't know very well. Such as herpes. (Just one example for the less creative).

I totally agree with this, but I also feel the original posters idea was still correct as well. Some women do use sex as a weapon and hold out, and the truth is it probably isnt worth it anyway. But I do also believe that they refrain due to emotional issues (you'll think theyre a slut or their friends will find out, that sort of thing.) Its your call in this situation, because it can get very frustrating, ive been there myself.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Some women would refrain from having sex too soon because it can confuse emotions. Some women value getting to know someone well before they share their bodies, or that kind of intimacy.

I agree Iqqi, well said. I'm just seeing it from a different angle...

Again..it's low IL. If a woman values 'getting to know someone well enough before they share their body' it's because that someone hasn't raised her IL high enough yet.

Some women take longer for their IL to grow, they have shields, are guarded, etc.

There's nothing wrong with that, that's what makes people unique I guess.

 

[iqqi]

You are all wrong about the IL thing having to do with a chick waiting to have sex. Just like some of you prefer to wait for sex with a chick you REALLY DIG, many women are the same way. That is why they may have had ONS in the past, but won't with you. They don't see YOU as a ONS, they see potential.

Some immature women may be doing a power play at this point.

But many mature women are withholding because they don't want to ruin anything. They don't want their already unexplainable emotions getting even cloudier. They really want to get to know you and establish a deep connection, so that the sex will be meaningful and intense, not some "pleasureable activity" that means nothing.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I can't believe anyone on this site supports the bvllsh!t idea that "quality" women, a ridiculously AFC term btw, make you wait for sex.

A woman making you wait is a woman telling you what to do. Why in the world would any of you put up with that, other than your own low self-esteem? When you start out with her as the boss, do you really think anything is ever going to change?

Azanon, I never understood this mentality:

If i'm getting it 3 "dates" or less (encounters, whatever), she's easy AFAIK. "Easy" was never a trait I wanted in my lifelong partner. At the very least, it'd go in the "con" column. At worst, it'd exclude her as a possible candidate.


I have never gotten laid later than the second date...ever. Your sour grapes mentality would tell you that these must be trailer park bimbos that I date, but most of them are law students, grad students, and successful intelligent women. It's foolish to hold it against them because I am able to seduce them. Occasionally, I will date one of your "quality" women who do not put out, and then I never call again. Quality to you is defective to me.

 

[Bible_Belt]

But many mature women are withholding because they don't want to ruin anything. They don't want their already unexplainable emotions getting even cloudier. They really want to get to know you and establish a deep connection, so that the sex will be meaningful and intense, not some "pleasureable activity" that means nothing.

fwiw, I get that on the first date sometimes, which is why if I can tell a girl is really into me, I will let her put off sex until the second date, to avoid the first date sex stigma. Do you see what a sensitive and caring guy I am?

 

[Mr.Positive]

Iqqi, they see potential of what? A puppy dog beta male provider?

No thanks.

I'm all for advocating that sex should be something special, there's nothing like having intense great sex with a woman that you deeply care for.

However, if that raw animal attraction isn't there from the beginning, the relationship, if there becomes one, is doomed, IMO.

It's sex first, then relationship. Think of sex as a 'relationship tryout'. For two people to be happy, in the long-term, there must and should be great mind-blowing sex. If there isn't, either the man, or woman, will get bored over time and look for something more outside the relationship.

For me, I'd rather find this out sooner than later. That's my only issue with 'waiting'.

FWIW though, thanks for your insight Iqqi. It is good to get a woman's perspective on this...

and part of me, the idealist, wants to believe you here. But the realist in me tells me otherwise..

 

[potato]

I can't believe anyone on this site supports the bvllsh!t idea that "quality" women, a ridiculously AFC term btw, make you wait for sex.

What would you know about quality women? You are 31 and mostly get women off of MySpace.

It used to be school, now that I have graduated it is mostly myspace.

successful intelligent women.

typically aren’t hooking up with guys via MySpace and likely don’t even have a MySpace account.

Occasionally, I will date one of your "quality" women who do not put out, and then I never call again. Quality to you is defective to me.

Kind of says it all, doesn’t it.

 

[Bible_Belt]

What would you know about quality women? You are 31 and mostly get women off of MySpace.

So being on myspace means that a woman is not "quality?" Pretty much every girl I met at law school was into myspace. I can think of *one* law school girl who thought myspace was foolish, and she was a churchy religious type. Are law school women not "quality?" The other hookups have mostly been girls I knew from high school, or their friends, whatever. Myspace is a reality these days, if you want to date 20something women. Hate it all you want, but it's an easy way to get laid. That's just where the girls are, "quality" and "low-quality" girl debate aside. Being on myspace in and of itself reveals nothing about a person other than that they have enough brains to work a computer and get on them Internets. If you have anything interesting at all going on in your life, it is a good way to network with people who have the same interest. And get laid.

 

[ketostix]

You are all wrong about the IL thing having to do with a chick waiting to have sex. Just like some of you prefer to wait for sex with a chick you REALLY DIG, many women are the same way. That is why they may have had ONS in the past, but won't with you. They don't see YOU as a ONS, they see potential.

So the women are playing the hor role with other guys while trying to play the wholesome rule with another guy and making him wait. No thanks, she's still a "hor". Which is OK, but a phony hor isn't OK.

You think you have a quality woman because she waits for sex with you, but you don't have. All you're really doing in most likelihood is building a relationship with a typical female who wants a relationship.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

People have always asked me in PMs, "Hey RT, how come you don't just do a thread outlining all the Iron Rules of Tomassi?"

And now you know,..

Because I knew if I ever did it would create one gigantic clusterƒuck of a thread where everyone would find some issue with this or that rule, or they'd find any and every way to prove that they're the exception to it individually because it challenges some ego-investment they're still clinging to. While all at the same time they'll say I'm making sweeping generalizations and I'd have to run down each and every rule individually to establish my point for having made it in the first place.

Just for the record, there's 12 Iron Rules.

 

[KontrollerX]

Don't worry too much about it Rollo.

I think all 12 of the iron rules should be found and posted in this thread to give the benefit of the rules to the members and lurkers who can find personal value in them.

Pook once talked about certain posts and topics of his he did not intend for debate but rather put them out there for people simply to get something out of if they could and he explained to people that why he wasn't debating with them was because he put his topics in the tips forum.

So perhaps this topic could be moved to the tips forum and when the other iron rules are found by whoever they can be posted here.

No one has to debate anything about them or respond to any challenge at all but they can if they want to while others who aren't interested in that can just read the rules get what they can out of them and go on with their day.

Everyone wins.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

The reason I post these Rules in threads where they specifically apply to the thread-starters is exactly why I don't outline all of them in one single thread - they confuse the issues. It's too much all at once. Every SS member of any merit has done something similar to this at some point in their time here. POOK did, Anti-Dump, hell, even MacAVoy has his own manifesto going. I was trying to avoid codifying them all into one thread because they lose their emphasis when they're taken out of context rather than focusing on them individually in a given situation.

That, and they're in the book I've written,..

heh,..

 

[MacAvoy]

I understand and respect where your coming from RT especially given the fact that you are putting them in your book. The only reason I tried to compile them is because theres been times where I've wanted to lead a poster to your advice, then have to do a search, I was trying to make it easier to reference in the future.

 

[KontrollerX]

Yeah definitely understand your position on it now Rollo.

I too looked at things the same way as Mac from what he just posted about it here.

 

[drmeathead]

if a girl likes you she will **** you, period. if she doesnt like you enough she wont **** you, period. if she thinks you have potential or whatever this bull**** is being called it is because she doesnt quite yet feel enough attraction to you, period. in effect, her giving you the potential tag means that you are on dating probation.

she sees that you may be a doctor someday but currently are a social retard and just arent figuring things out. she realizes that guy she currently is ****ing is no good for her but dammit he knows how to lay pipe. she sees that you may perhaps be the type that she can break and control so she will hold out the puss puss till you give into her.hell she may be into but her less attractive friend likes you as well and she feels guilty about the situation. it could be a million reasons why you have potential, none of the matter. the take home point is that she has qualified you as almost good enough. if you want to stay in that situation that is up to you but as franki valli once chirpped "no woman is worth crawling on the earth"

i will give the religious angle validation as i have been expericened in these matters. these good girls may not **** you on the first date or in the first month. they WILL keep escalating things and tempting themselves and you. however i bring this point up, a woman not into pre-marital sex will have major issues over ur past sexual history and probably will not be compatible for you if you are comfortable with pre-marital sex. so why even pursue?

 

[Colossus]

People have always asked me in PMs, "Hey RT, how come you don't just do a thread outlining all the Iron Rules of Tomassi?"

And now you know,..

Because I knew if I ever did it would create one gigantic clusterƒuck of a thread where everyone would find some issue with this or that rule, or they'd find any and every way to prove that they're the exception to it individually because it challenges some ego-investment they're still clinging to. While all at the same time they'll say I'm making sweeping generalizations and I'd have to run down each and every rule individually to establish my point for having made it in the first place.

Just for the record, there's 12 Iron Rules.

I posted my cardinal rules in a recent thread...but then again Im only Colossus. I dont have the star power of RT.