Independent Women

[Once Bitten]

This may be an oversimplification, but I still believe that a man and woman who truly hit it off have found someone who is a similar band of "crazy".

 

[Pandora]

Could it be that you are carrying extra weight or something real simple that simply dampens any desire they may have?



Is there something about the way you are behaving to the ones that don't get the tingles that you can pinpoint? I know ALL females won't get them. I'm just wondering if you figured out if there was a quality or something that could be measured that causes this in the others or some other personality trait they liked.



Was he built as per her sexual spec, or she has a certain "range" of a guy that she likes.

Yeh bro to be honest i am in good shape. So its definately not my shape. But my teeth do need work. I lost my retainer when i was younger so my upper row of teeth are mildy messed up. But all but 3 of the 4 girls got physical with me. Two had sex and one initiated the make out. So it might be looks but then why would they get physical. It might be because i am a black guy idk. I still dont understand how a woman can be attracted enough to a guy to get physical with him on the first date and then go cold after they leave. Its like wtf im still the same guy you had sex why aint you texting back!

The guy my HB8 friend ghosted was a white special forces guy in good shape. He and her clicked personality wise. The only problem is that he was white. She is white also but has a thing for guys that look latin. That is her exact type, the Latin lover. You can be perfect for her and if your not Latin its a no go on the dating. So you are right he was alpha and good looking but he was not her exact type. So he was perfect for her but the only thing stopping her was his white skin color ( insane huh). For some reason she doesnt feel tingle for any other guys but her specific latin type. Its very very interesting. I cant imagine being that picky but if you are a hot babe with options i guess thats just an average Monday lol.

 

[Rippy]

Women crave alpha DNA, and beta provisioning.

Well, that's not exactly true. Women crave an alpha who has strong DNA and good resources. If women are not attractive enough to secure commitment from a man like this, then they will take the beta provisioning while screwing an alpha on the side. (Sometimes. Believe it or not, many women are faithful even to betas due to social conditioning.)

I do agree that not being a provider is important though. I'd much rather be the guy that women will sleep with but have no intention of marrying than the guy they'll marry but are never really attracted to.

 

[Rippy]

Nope. Sex appeal is visceral. It has nothing whatsoever to do with resources. It has to do with the way a man moves, the way he speaks, how he kisses, his decisiveness in small things, the way he carries himself and how he interacts with a woman. It is highly individual whether one person has sex appeal in the opinion of a potential lover. It has ZERO to do with resources. I can tell whether I have any interest in a sexual encounter with a man pretty instantaneously (and the answer is almost always Meh, nope). From there the interest is tempered by other criteria that can only be gauged by getting to know someone. This gets back to why I don't have sex early on - I haven't had opportunity to get to know the man, and if he wants sex before I feel I know him well enough - which takes time - then logic would indicate that sex is all he is after, and therefore it is in my best interest NOT to engage such a man (who only wants sex) physically. Even if he has sex appeal. I have control over myself and do not get swept away emotionally in beginning encounters. This comes from being a more rather than less rational person. It also comes from internal confidence and security in who I am. From internal validation. Few women are truly internally validated.

The quote about "overall resource package" is that poster's projection of his belief system onto all women. He grossly underestimates women in holding this view, which hands women a tremendous advantage of which he may not be aware. The person who is underestimated in any interaction always holds greater power if they recognize it and utilize it.

Back to last week as an example. Of the two men who approached me and the redhead with whom I was conversing, neither held any of my interest sexually but they were both intelligent and engaging conversationalists. This despite the fact that one gentleman expressed such interest in me, is a millionaire, is age appropriate, is divorced, lives on the waterfront in Seattle, owns his own business, loves sports, is in shape, is tall, is nice looking from an physical standpoint etc. So here is a man with resources out the wazoo compared to the general male population, and he also had self respect and was not a pandering sort of man in any way. He was his own man, made his own decisions, leads his own life, etc. Just not someone I found sexually appealing. Some other woman would find him quite appealing I am sure. I didn't. I wasn't repulsed either, he was engaging, self assured and pleasant. But his "overall resource package" should have had me all excited according to the quote above. Not so.

It all comes back to choice. An "independent" woman has constructed her life in such a way to be able to choose according to wants and desires instead of financial/attention needs because her needs are already met. She will gravitate to men in similar circumstances and will have her own preferences as to what is most important. Mine is sex appeal, as I have noted but that sex appeal needs to be in the context of a man of at least my caliber in other aspects of his life. The number one thing for my best friend was intelligence. She is married to someone successful who holds advanced degrees and business interests in a couple of diverse fields (physics and psychology). She, like the doctor's wife in the previous post I made in this thread happily defers to her man. But she herself is an accomplished senior level executive, perfectly capable of handling her own affairs if she needs to. She CHOOSES to defer and is happy in the feminine role.

I already have enough stuff to control and deal with in life. I have no interest in exerting control over a man. That is the ploy of a woman who needs the man - such that she seeks to make him depend on her by exertion of control. Control freaks always seek control precisely because they feel out of control in their own lives.

I don't have that need. Therefore I expect a man to have his own affairs well in hand and be at my same level in life or above (if he is someone I can learn from - fantastic!) I have zero interest in controlling a man's affairs. That way I can simply be free to enjoy the company of a man I find worthwhile to spend time with. And the men whom I associate with greatly appreciate this attitude. I have been told it is rare I can't tell you how many times.

This is a very different mid set than most women have. That was the entire intent of this post from what I can gather. How an "independent" woman thinks (because yes she most definitely does think) and what motivates her because it is different than most other women. It is also worth recognizing because women like this are the sort that men most enjoy.

Cheers.

My intention is not to be rude when I say that this is precisely why men should never take dating advice from women. For some reason women do not have insight into their own behavior, or if they do they never share it with men.

 

[BeExcellent]

Well, that's not exactly true. Women crave an alpha who has strong DNA and good resources. If women are not attractive enough to secure commitment from a man like this, then they will take the beta provisioning while screwing an alpha on the side. (Sometimes. Believe it or not, many women are faithful even to betas due to social conditioning.)

I do agree that not being a provider is important though. I'd much rather be the guy that women will sleep with but have no intention of marrying than the guy they'll marry but are never really attracted to.

The assumptions your post makes are exactly why @Howiestern started this thread.

Some men here haven't ever run into a woman like the ones the thread is talking about, or if they do they don't know how to handle her because she behaves differently than 95% + of women out there. I personally could care less about a man's resources in a financial sense because I am my own provider.

Men with serious financial resources are abundant in my world. And most of these men are type A personalities and alpha men in spades. But I have resources of my own creation that are substantial. These alpha guys respect me in my own right. Therefore I'm interested in a man I can exchange ideas with, enjoy and learn from. Someone capable of leading me should a relationship develop. Because of where I am in life that is going to be a man who is at least as accomplished as me if not more so. And someone I find sexy too. Period.

You don't have to accept what I have to say. Ignore me. I appreciate a man for who he is and how he thinks and what he has accomplished and I have great respect and admiration for that. I recognize and value a man's character. I know what it takes to become a success and I value those qualities in others. That is a very different perspective than an attitude of what he can do or provide for me. Worlds different.

Men value women who genuinely appreciate and respect a man in this way. It's unusual for a man to find.

Just this past week I was offered out of the blue a position in my field in a major market with a 1% level salary plus bonus opportunities. I didn't interview at all, I was simply offered a high level position based on the talent I've demonstrated and the trust I've built over the past couple months working with this particular business. I've discussed it with my ex (who I support financially) and my kids and will be declining this coming week.

Why? I'd rather not give up the independence I've built into my lifestyle and I'm unwilling to relocate my kids. It's just not worth the hassle factor. The man making the offer will be disappointed, but I will handle it with diplomacy. See the abundance mentality at work there?

Independent women have an abundance mentality and a positive outlook. Great things to associate with if you ask me, and not common to find.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear bmp2cpm,
Might I be so familiar as to call you bee?....I agree with virtually all your observations....You have crossed a few dry gullies...Of course this doesn't mean that these views are correct,nor indeed,that there is a correct viewpoint,it really just suggests we have been shaped by similar journeys...Men who gravitate to this site and stay are almost all intensely Independent and as such will just not relate to an Independent Woman,there is room for just one Master on the Ship,it is surprising that some regular posters do enjoy such Womens Company,I will have to think about that...But it must be said,that for many of our unwashed Brothers out there,such Women are a Godsend...We all know Guys who live with their Mum,don't we?...Rarely of course do such Men appeal to an Independent Woman,but it does Happen...Going back over lifes roll call,I recall such an Independent Woman,she was the organiser of a group called PWP,Parents without partners,we used humerously refer to the group as Parents without Pants or the Grab a Granny Group.though a very admirable Woman,attractive as well,nobody ever tangled with her,she just wasn't the sort of Lady you would nudge in the ribs for a Quicky on Sunday mornings...Cut a long story short...A guy turned up,short,uneducated,quiet almost timid...A postman...Amazingly this Bird hooked up with him and within 12 Days he had moved in with her...He then produced from the woodwork a twelve year Old Daughter,though she grumbled a bit,she never broke up with him...Then Surprise,surprise,she tossed in a stable job and they both upped and moved to a remote area on the Queensland Coast,where he had secured a promotion,that was ten Years ago and evidently they are still both very happy with each other...My thought on this...It fits in with my theory that in any partnership,business or relationship,for it to succeed there needs to be mutual superiority......When such arrangements fall apart it is usually because one of the parties,has accidently or deliberately,been seen to usurp the accepted role of the other.

 

[Desdinova]

It really depends on the context of "independent". I see it as two camps...

1) Independent... She can take care of herself, cook for herself, look after her finances, owns (or has the ability) to own her own place, etc etc.

2) Independent... "I'm a strong independent woman, and I don't need a man to do anything for me!"

My GF falls into the first category. She's good with her finances, she can cook, she can hold her own, but she wants her man to be her structural support.

I've dated the second type as well. They're awful to deal with.

 

[ubercat]

@Desdinova is on the money. My girlfriend is in camp 1. Good at her job owns her own apartment etc. she used to like to say she was a strong independent woman too. But I could see u was just a bit of feminist Dogma she d swallowed. She was quite happy to be led. Interestingly enough I would say I'm at the top of her high score board. Given she s 40 not sure what to make of that one. Still throws the occasional sh1t test. Not sure that ever stops

 

[BeExcellent]

Yes @Desdinova is spot on. I consider myself squarely in camp 1.

Camp 2 is going to include the bitter super feminists who hold men who seek to lead in contempt.

If I were a dude I'd pass on that too

 

[skinnyguy]

I was hoping with the amount of strong/alpha/independent types we have on here that I would get some more responses. Maybe some aren't as tough as they sound? It certainly takes a pretty solid guy to be with these types of females.

lol I hope that was a joke. You actually thought there are alphas on this site?

 

[SkrooU]

I personally could care less about a man's resources in a financial sense because I am my own provider.

Therefore I'm interested in a man I can exchange ideas with, enjoy and learn from. Someone capable of leading me should a relationship develop. Because of where I am in life that is going to be a man who is at least as accomplished as me if not more so.

I appreciate a man for who he is and how he thinks and what he has accomplished and I have great respect and admiration for that. I recognize and value a man's character. I know what it takes to become a success and I value those qualities in others. That is a very different perspective than an attitude of what he can do or provide for me.

Define how a man is "accomplished" and explain precisely how a man's financial resources and his accomplishments are not linked. For instance, a man with a negative net worth who lives in a trailer park and needs food stamps can be accomplished enough in some way to be attractive to you?????

 

[BeExcellent]

My previous post was pretty clear so no need to rehash.

I will note the bolded portions are your emphasis, not mine.

Cheers

 

[SgtSplacker]

That's Not always true. sometimes it depends on how she was raised, which can heavily influence the type of person she becomes.

There's girls that are not even close to my looks but are very picky with bitchy personalities.

Things are not always black and white. almost all my relationships have been where they will cater to me. I think it has to do with my personality as well.

Cuban girl?

 

[SkrooU]

My previous post was pretty clear so no need to rehash.

I will note the bolded portions are your emphasis, not mine.

Cheers

They are your words whether you wish to have them emphasized or not. You are just dodging the question because you don't want to admit that a man's resources are important to you.

 

[BeExcellent]

If resources were my aim I'd be dating the attorney with the house in Brentwood & beach house in Malibu who drives a 250K car that I had dinner with recently. He is extremely successful, intelligent and driven. Friends with a number of celebrities. Nice looking too. I didn't like him well enough to see him again.

After I declined a second date I deleted him & never heard from him again (duh). He understood "no thank you" & moved on immediately, as any self respecting man should.

He's one of any number of high value men in my proximity.

I don't lead on men I'm not interested in. Simple.

So no, I'm not choosing based on resources.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear All,
This denial of sheer charisma,flies against reality,some Men are natural Don Juans,give them a suit and cologne and they will given the opportunity seduce anyone,should they be unemployed and live in a trailer park,they will use this to create sympathy...They are born,not created just as Fred Astaire came into this World to dance and Albert Einstein to tell us about relativity ...They can charm anyone,strangely in my experience they are sometimes not great performers in the sack,their ability lies in making a Woman feel good about herself.

 

[therobman7]

Independent women kind of fall into two categories... the socialist and the introvert

The socialist is usually well educated, well paid, does lots of individual activities and extracurricular activities. Most free time is spent with friends or family, leaving little time for a man.

The introvert just likes to be alone sometimes and binge watch netflix for 12 hours. They get their energy from being alone, not near anyone.

I am currently involved with someone who is a bit of an introvert, and let me tell you, it can be difficult. Why? Because I love to be around people, the more the merrier. This could partially be a cause of my current job, where most of my time is spent in front of a computer. However, independent women are more difficult to handle than all other women (probably most women) because they don't need you to make them feel good. They are often very comfortable with who they are and it drives insecure guys like me crazy. The good part? She won't be swarming over you when you want to do things you want to do. The bad part? You will begin to doubt her feelings for you because she does not make a ton of time for you.

You just need to determine if that works for you or not. Some people are just not compatible. Independent women, regardless of the type, are much more challenging, but I believe much more rewarding from a relationship perspective.

 

[BeExcellent]

I appreciate that @LARaiders85 & it's cool. I don't like it when threads get sidetracked about me personally.

Not because it bothers me but because I am an outlier in many ways and therefore not always a good representation of a woman or woman's behavior that many here expect to fit in a nice neat little box that fits a perception promulgated here. And that perception is accurate to a large degree but not to a 100% degree.

I don't think some poster on the Internet telling me how I think (when I am very well aware what I think and why) serves any purpose and it takes value away from this thread for example, which was created precisely to inquire about how outlier women are not in lockstep with the "all women do this or that" mantra which so many here try and apply to "all women"

The question exists (when @Howiestern started the thread exactly because some women honestly do not fit the broad brush behaviors preached here)...and those who don't fall in line with what the forum expects are actually the ladies most worth pursuing.

So some men here are trying to tell me, essentially, "No sweetie, really you think this...really you want that" because the fact that I don't follow the party line is perhaps uncomfortable to some.

As in, Egads!! A woman who doesn't need my (fill in the blank with whatever "resources" here) might actually evaluate me on the basis of character and other intrinsic characteristics...

And that idea could be understandably disconcerting for those men who know or suspect they have more work to do in the personal growth arena.

In other words men like to hide behind the notion that all women need resources because that gives a convenient excuse not to get out there & become better men...

And I'm rooting for better men (and women too for that matter) or I wouldn't be here.

 

[The Duke]

I appreciate that @LARaiders85 & it's cool. I don't like it when threads get sidetracked about me personally.

Not because it bothers me but because I am an outlier in many ways and therefore not always a good representation of a woman or woman's behavior that many here expect to fit in a nice neat little box that fits a perception promulgated here. And that perception is accurate to a large degree but not to a 100% degree.

I don't think some poster on the Internet telling me how I think (when I am very well aware what I think and why) serves any purpose and it takes value away from this thread for example, which was created precisely to inquire about how outlier women are not in lockstep with the "all women do this or that" mantra which so many here try and apply to "all women"

The question exists (when @Howiestern started the thread exactly because some women honestly do not fit the broad brush behaviors preached here)...and those who don't fall in line with what the forum expects are actually the ladies most worth pursuing.

So some men here are trying to tell me, essentially, "No sweetie, really you think this...really you want that" because the fact that I don't follow the party line is perhaps uncomfortable to some.

As in, Egads!! A woman who doesn't need my (fill in the blank with whatever "resources" here) might actually evaluate me on the basis of character and other intrinsic characteristics...

And that idea could be understandably disconcerting for those men who know or suspect they have more work to do in the personal growth arena.

In other words men like to hide behind the notion that all women need resources because that gives a convenient excuse not to get out there & become better men...

And I'm rooting for better men (and women too for that matter) or I wouldn't be here.

.....that's hott like a sexy-bad girl straight out of Bond movie! haha

 

[sazc]

Have you ever dated a woman that you considered highly independent? What was it like? Do you consider yourself independent? Do the independent females desire males with
strong personality types? I’m guessing less than 5% of the females I know fit into this category.

I'm independent. Good profession, income, house, etc.

I love a strong man. problem is, most alpha males are not good at intimacy (from what I have experienced) Dont get me wrong,they are fine at sex, it's the ability to have an intimate relationship they lack. I start a relationship with a string man and about 6 months into it, when I know I can trust him, I crave that deeper connection that he just cant give. Of course the pvssy boys are far too sensitive for my liking

The great thing about me is I have the ability to vacation, I wont ask you to pay my bills (ever), I have GREAT credit, my car will always work, I will always have a good job and I will try to get you back and take you out every now and then (enough so you feel I am contributing)

The (possibly) not so great thing about me is that I have a brain and I absolfvinglutely want my opinions to matter, which you will like at first, and then feel as if you are always compromising, and that will get frustrating.

In my experience aloha males are sexy because they can make decisions quickly and confidently, but have short tempers and think they can confront you when they feel like it. no bueno.