Incel Circlejerk

[Clockwerk50]

@Clockwerk50

@characternote Makes a really good point, which is people that are doing well with their dating lives, relationships, etc. will not be feeling the need to come on here. I guarantee you that the overwhelming majority of non-troll posters on here joined because they were having some sort of issues with the dating market or even with a relationship, I'm also one of them. A guy who is easily finding dates or in a good relationship is not going to start doing an internet search related to "game" or red pill content, men's issues, etc.

I joined here back in 2018 because I was having a very long string of issues with trying to meet women, literally nothing was working. I used to think it was me, but I also had this gut feeling that something was very off with women and the dating market, I just couldn't place my finger on it. I also had this suspicion that most men were secretly struggling like I was, it just wasn't broadcasted to the world. Fast forward a few years later and many of these feelings of mine had been validated by specific stats and numbers showing that sexlessness was on the rise and that most men were single, while most women weren't lol.

Here is the reality of the situation we are in right now.

Men are in the middle of the worst market for trying to find a partner, there is literally no debate on this. Your grandfather literally could just show up and he'd find a decent looking and decent quality woman to which he would marry, have multiple kids with, etc. Your grandfather didn't need to learn about "game" or spam approach women or make gym/fitness a part time job in order to land an average woman lol.

A lot of this is related to dating culture that is heavily influenced by social media and dating apps, which have been major players on the scene now for about a decade now. I distinctly remember in the early 2010s, before dating apps took over, that people more or less dated those around their level, as has been the norm for generations. However, because of the perception of sheer abundance, women are much fussier than what you would have seen with women in the past. You'll also notice a tendency towards something I call dating ADD, where women basically can't settle for one partner and basically quickly next one suitor and go on to the next one. A woman today potentially has more potential suitors in a given day than a woman from just a few decades ago would have had in a lifetime. IF you were in the same position, you would behave in a very similar manner.

@characternote also brought up another really good point, which is there really is no such thing as "game". I am off the belief that a woman either likes you or she doesn't, and there really isn't much you can do to change that. A lot of this stuff about "game", like he cited, is honestly super cringey to me, akin to putting on a fake act that can be spotted a mile away lol. It basically just makes awkward and/or unattractive guys look even weirder or outright creepy lol. There's been this ridiculous idea on here floating around lately where you can pull significantly younger women, I'm talking like you are well into middle age and out of shape and approaching a woman young enough to be your daughter that is going off to college lol.

I agree that the dating landscape has changed, and for those seeking partners or FWB, having a strong internal foundation is still crucial regardless of the objective. This site can be helpful for members to avoid being discouraged in today’s dating environment and to learn how to have fun during social interactions, especially with women. There’s still plenty to advise here to explore—strategies, emotional awareness, effective communication, how to respond when a woman shows interest, how not to drop the ball when she's interested, and how to minimize your red flags.

What's frustrating is when certain posters seek self-pity and sympathy for the cards they've been dealt, often ignoring their role in the situation. We end up with countless posts focused on fixing one individual, who often derails the conversation for pages with every piece of advice given. This dilutes the purpose of the site for both lurkers and those posting, sending the message that it’s okay to come in with excuses and seek validation instead of being accountable for their lack of effort.

 

[GoodMan32]

@Clockwerk50

@characternote Makes a really good point, which is people that are doing well with their dating lives, relationships, etc. will not be feeling the need to come on here. I guarantee you that the overwhelming majority of non-troll posters on here joined because they were having some sort of issues with the dating market or even with a relationship, I'm also one of them. A guy who is easily finding dates or in a good relationship is not going to start doing an internet search related to "game" or red pill content, men's issues, etc.

I joined here back in 2018 because I was having a very long string of issues with trying to meet women, literally nothing was working. I used to think it was me, but I also had this gut feeling that something was very off with women and the dating market, I just couldn't place my finger on it. I also had this suspicion that most men were secretly struggling like I was, it just wasn't broadcasted to the world. Fast forward a few years later and many of these feelings of mine had been validated by specific stats and numbers showing that sexlessness was on the rise and that most men were single, while most women weren't lol.

Here is the reality of the situation we are in right now.

Men are in the middle of the worst market for trying to find a partner, there is literally no debate on this. Your grandfather literally could just show up and he'd find a decent looking and decent quality woman to which he would marry, have multiple kids with, etc. Your grandfather didn't need to learn about "game" or spam approach women or make gym/fitness a part time job in order to land an average woman lol.

A lot of this is related to dating culture that is heavily influenced by social media and dating apps, which have been major players on the scene now for about a decade now. I distinctly remember in the early 2010s, before dating apps took over, that people more or less dated those around their level, as has been the norm for generations. However, because of the perception of sheer abundance, women are much fussier than what you would have seen with women in the past. You'll also notice a tendency towards something I call dating ADD, where women basically can't settle for one partner and basically quickly next one suitor and go on to the next one. A woman today potentially has more potential suitors in a given day than a woman from just a few decades ago would have had in a lifetime. IF you were in the same position, you would behave in a very similar manner.

@characternote also brought up another really good point, which is there really is no such thing as "game". I am off the belief that a woman either likes you or she doesn't, and there really isn't much you can do to change that. A lot of this stuff about "game", like he cited, is honestly super cringey to me, akin to putting on a fake act that can be spotted a mile away lol. It basically just makes awkward and/or unattractive guys look even weirder or outright creepy lol. There's been this ridiculous idea on here floating around lately where you can pull significantly younger women, I'm talking like you are well into middle age and out of shape and approaching a woman young enough to be your daughter that is going off to college lol.

Well-said (especially the part about socially awkward men coming across as creepy if we try to mimic a smooth alpha)

 

[Divorced w 3]

when people aren't getting laid they come here

the advice can be covered in a few sentences though. Basically, 'get in fantastic shape, hit on more women, try to earn more money'. That's essentially the advice someone will get if they come here saying 'girls don't like me' kind of thing.

this is not entirely true. There is nuance you can learn here on tact and communication that has served me well at least. There is me as a single dad before and having found this website and it’s legitimately made a difference. Almost every time I try and deny the advice of seasoned people here, I regret it or I learn it the hard way. The stuff you’re reading on a consistent basis is that way because it’s field tested over literally decades now. Things do change but basic principles in seduction and in life basically don’t.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

What's frustrating is when certain posters seek self-pity and sympathy for the cards they've been dealt, often ignoring their role in the situation. We end up with countless posts focused on fixing one individual, who often derails the conversation for pages with every piece of advice given. This dilutes the purpose of the site for both lurkers and those posting, sending the message that it’s okay to come in with excuses and seek validation instead of being accountable for their lack of effort.

So let's all agree to ignore the incels and attention-starve them until they go away to attract attention elsewhere. Or take our advice and stop wallowing in self-pity and opening cringy validation threads.

 

[sangheilios]

I agree that the dating landscape has changed, and for those seeking partners or FWB, having a strong internal foundation is still crucial regardless of the objective. This site can be helpful for members to avoid being discouraged in today’s dating environment and to learn how to have fun during social interactions, especially with women. There’s still plenty to advise here to explore—strategies, emotional awareness, effective communication, how to respond when a woman shows interest, how not to drop the ball when she's interested, and how to minimize your red flags.

What's frustrating is when certain posters seek self-pity and sympathy for the cards they've been dealt, often ignoring their role in the situation. We end up with countless posts focused on fixing one individual, who often derails the conversation for pages with every piece of advice given. This dilutes the purpose of the site for both lurkers and those posting, sending the message that it’s okay to come in with excuses and seek validation instead of being accountable for their lack of effort.

I think a huge factor that a lot of people on here completely miss is simply accepting the reality of the dating market in our current time. I have a strong feeling a lot of the posters on here are much older, as in 40+ and well past this even, and do not understand the dynamics of the dating market today simply because they never went through it. Things like social media and dating apps did not exist 20 years ago. Sure, online dating sites existed, but wasn't how most couples met, in fact there was even a bit of a stigma associated with it.

IF a man was struggling in their time frame, the natural response is to assume there is something wrong with him. It's the same repetitive crap like work on your social skills, have better hygiene, dress better, become moderately fit, etc. This advice 20 years ago worked because the majority of guys were not struggling to get a date, so simply fixes like this would definitely help.

In contrast to this, you have large hordes of men that are otherwise decent/passable that are still struggling in today's dating market. Telling them the repetitive crap I mentioned above isn't even applicable. The better advice would be to avoid dating apps outright unless you are exceptionally attractive. The advice should be to work incredibly hard on self improvement, because there are countless other guys out there doing better than you. I also believe accepting the fact that women literally have at least a half a dozen other guys she is talking at a given period of time and that she could next you at the drop of a hat. I could go and on and on.

The main thing is that none of this **** should even be a factor, to me it's absolutely insane how warped the dating market is.

I will add this, I believe that a huge amount of it is pure luck. A huge number of woman today are absolute trash that should be treated as such. Sure, many are definitely overweight and unattractive, but I'm not even referring to just physical qualities. Issues pertaining to narcissism and overinflated egos are a rampant thing you'll find with many women, even unattractive ones. Many lack a feminine nature and lack many qualities that help form strong relationships and even families. There also is a huge problem with self medication and other addictive type behaviors, though you'll also find this in men.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I think a huge factor that a lot of people on here completely miss is simply accepting the reality of the dating market in our current time. I have a strong feeling a lot of the posters on here are much older, as in 40+ and well past this even, and do not understand the dynamics of the dating market today simply because they never went through it. Things like social media and dating apps did not exist 20 years ago. Sure, online dating sites existed, but wasn't how most couples met, in fact there was even a bit of a stigma associated with it.

The posters here who are 40-50+ are still active on your current dating market, dating the women you want to date. Why do they succeed whereas you don't? Maybe they understand the dynamics of the current dating market better than you?

 

[Clockwerk50]

I think a huge factor that a lot of people on here completely miss is simply accepting the reality of the dating market in our current time. I have a strong feeling a lot of the posters on here are much older, as in 40+ and well past this even, and do not understand the dynamics of the dating market today simply because they never went through it. Things like social media and dating apps did not exist 20 years ago. Sure, online dating sites existed, but wasn't how most couples met, in fact there was even a bit of a stigma associated with it.

IF a man was struggling in their time frame, the natural response is to assume there is something wrong with him. It's the same repetitive crap like work on your social skills, have better hygiene, dress better, become moderately fit, etc. This advice 20 years ago worked because the majority of guys were not struggling to get a date, so simply fixes like this would definitely help.

In contrast to this, you have large hordes of men that are otherwise decent/passable that are still struggling in today's dating market. Telling them the repetitive crap I mentioned above isn't even applicable. The better advice would be to avoid dating apps outright unless you are exceptionally attractive. The advice should be to work incredibly hard on self improvement, because there are countless other guys out there doing better than you. I also believe accepting the fact that women literally have at least a half a dozen other guys she is talking at a given period of time and that she could next you at the drop of a hat. I could go and on and on.

The main thing is that none of this **** should even be a factor, to me it's absolutely insane how warped the dating market is.

I will add this, I believe that a huge amount of it is pure luck. A huge number of woman today are absolute trash that should be treated as such. Sure, many are definitely overweight and unattractive, but I'm not even referring to just physical qualities. Issues pertaining to narcissism and overinflated egos are a rampant thing you'll find with many women, even unattractive ones. Many lack a feminine nature and lack many qualities that help form strong relationships and even families. There also is a huge problem with self medication and other addictive type behaviors, though you'll also find this in men.

I see your point, but I’m specifically referring to incels who have been here for years, making excuses and not taking action. It’s frustrating to see the same individuals stuck in the same mindset without any progress, even if it is for their own betterment.

If the dating world is as challenging as you say, I’d expect a larger influx of men coming here to express their struggles. Instead, it seems like it’s the same small group constantly complaining while others are seeking growth. The number of users who leave the site and seldom come back shows how many men are willing to put themselves out there, work at it, and actually make it.

 

[MatureDJ]

... over time people realised that 'game' basically only 'works' (or seems to work) if she is attracted to you. And it doesn't cut any ice if you are NOT her type at all (you're old and fat and bald and she's 18 and likes guys her own age who have long hair and who are ripped for example). And so it's not just this site. That 'shift' can be seen on other 'PUA' type sites too.

This is the brutal reality. If a chick wants you, you won't need any game to get her coming out your shower with her bathrobe on, ready to go. If she doesn't want you, all your JokerMaxxing spinning game will be an amusement that won't even get you a hug.

 

[MatureDJ]

Men are in the middle of the worst market for trying to find a partner, there is literally no debate on this. Your grandfather literally could just show up and he'd find a decent looking and decent quality woman to which he would marry, have multiple kids with, etc. Your grandfather didn't need to learn about "game" or spam approach women or make gym/fitness a part time job in order to land an average woman lol.

It's OVER for GrandsonCels.

 

[BaronOfHair]

If a chick wants you, you won't need any game to get her coming out your shower with her bathrobe on, ready to go

Her walking out with a robe still on indicates that she's less eager to jump you than David Berkowitz was to prowl the streets of NYC with a water pistol

 

[BaronOfHair]

@Clockwerk50



Your grandfather literally could just show up and he'd find a decent looking and decent quality woman to which he would marry, have multiple kids with, etc. Your grandfather didn't need to learn about "game" or spam approach women or make gym/fitness a part time job in order to land an average woman lol.

And our pre-historic ancestors weren't reliant on the legal system to redress serious injuries to themselves or their families either... They and the rest of their tribesmen took up spears and stone axes, then butchered whoever they held responsible, frequently throwing the poor b-stard's entire family in for good measure

Are you going to make your peace with the reality we currently exist in, and find yourself a solid lawyer to prosecute your case, or pine away for "good ol' days" which are more non-existent than the cast of Pretty Little Liars's acting careers will be, within the next 3-5 years?

 

[GoodMan32]

It's OVER for GrandsonCels.

My grandpa, who easily managed to find/marry/have several kids with my grandma, had a hard time finding a woman after getting widowed (they were married for over 5 decades, to give you an idea of how much the marketplace had changed)

Pretty alarming that in the span of his lifetime, we regressed so much as a society.

 

[sangheilios]

And our pre-historic ancestors weren't reliant on the legal system to redress serious injuries to themselves or their families either... They and the rest of their tribesmen took up spears and stone axes, then butchered whoever they held responsible, frequently throwing the poor b-stard's entire family in for good measure

Are you going to make your peace with the reality we currently exist in, and find yourself a solid lawyer to prosecute your case, or pine away for "good ol' days" which are more non-existent than the cast of Pretty Little Liars's acting careers will be, within the next 3-5 years?

I'm pointing out the reality for what it is. There's a reason why rates of marriage are declining, and I see no signs of this trend reversing. You are also seeing a trend towards single motherhood and children being born out of wedlock with little to no paternal involvement.

There are actually some stats and data coming out recently that shows MEN are valuing marriage and family life more than women now. Women are more focused on being 'boss bitches' and their careers while having little interest in children, marriage, etc. You don't need the internet to see this either btw. Something you'll find is that many of these women panic when they get into their mid-late 30s and have a last call baby, as @SW15 has used as a term for this. I wouldn't bee too surprised to see using sperm donation as not too unusual thing in the near future. For women that opt out of this, fur babies will fill in the void for children that they don't have, as it's not natural for women to be childless and completely goes against their biological programming.

Seriously, who in their right mind would want to enter into a relationship with women like this, let alone marry or have children with them.

 

[sangheilios]

I see your point, but I’m specifically referring to incels who have been here for years, making excuses and not taking action. It’s frustrating to see the same individuals stuck in the same mindset without any progress, even if it is for their own betterment.

If the dating world is as challenging as you say, I’d expect a larger influx of men coming here to express their struggles. Instead, it seems like it’s the same small group constantly complaining while others are seeking growth. The number of users who leave the site and seldom come back shows how many men are willing to put themselves out there, work at it, and actually make it.

This is just one forum you may see this. I've noticed a trend on youtube over the last few years where there are a ton of channels that are specifically dedicated to discussing this topic, which shows a growing interest in watching such content.

Just because a poster on here is no longer active does not mean that he was able to find success in the dating market, get a relationship, etc. If anything, they simply got bored with the forum and slowly spend less and less time on here, as is the case with me right now. There's honestly a decent amount of trolling on here, some posters in particular come to mind but I won't mention them. There's also a lot of the same things put on endless repeat, it's not hard to see why people may decide to not come back.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I see your point, but I’m specifically referring to incels who have been here for years, making excuses and not taking action. It’s frustrating to see the same individuals stuck in the same mindset without any progress, even if it is for their own betterment.

I don't mind that. If someone wants to go in circles and never actually take action, that is their prerogative. My issue with them is that they post cringy threads whining about how inept they are with women and how to 'approach' prostitutes, and then they start giving advice on how to seduce women...

This is the brutal reality. If a chick wants you, you won't need any game to get her coming out your shower with her bathrobe on, ready to go. If she doesn't want you, all your JokerMaxxing spinning game will be an amusement that won't even get you a hug.

Yes, be angry at women being selective and not wanting to hug you because they realise that you're a creep. Real mature, dud.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I'm pointing out the reality for what it is. There's a reason why rates of marriage are declining, and I see no signs of this trend reversing

For whatever consolation it may provide

 

[Clockwerk50]

This is just one forum you may see this. I've noticed a trend on youtube over the last few years where there are a ton of channels that are specifically dedicated to discussing this topic, which shows a growing interest in watching such content.

Just because a poster on here is no longer active does not mean that he was able to find success in the dating market, get a relationship, etc. If anything, they simply got bored with the forum and slowly spend less and less time on here, as is the case with me right now. There's honestly a decent amount of trolling on here, some posters in particular come to mind but I won't mention them. There's also a lot of the same things put on endless repeat, it's not hard to see why people may decide to not come back.

Thanks for acknowledging the point about incels. I agree that there's a lot of media highlighting the difficulties in the dating market, but there’s also plenty out there advising men on fitness, business, and fashion to help them improve. I’m glad to see there’s still a lot of focus on masculinity. It’s hard to pinpoint why some posters leave the forum, but your reasoning makes sense; many factors contribute to the current landscape. I hope everything is going well for you outside the forum though!

 

[The Duke]

I agree that the dating landscape has changed, and for those seeking partners or FWB, having a strong internal foundation is still crucial regardless of the objective. This site can be helpful for members to avoid being discouraged in today’s dating environment and to learn how to have fun during social interactions, especially with women. There’s still plenty to advise here to explore—strategies, emotional awareness, effective communication, how to respond when a woman shows interest, how not to drop the ball when she's interested, and how to minimize your red flags.

What's frustrating is when certain posters seek self-pity and sympathy for the cards they've been dealt, often ignoring their role in the situation. We end up with countless posts focused on fixing one individual, who often derails the conversation for pages with every piece of advice given. This dilutes the purpose of the site for both lurkers and those posting, sending the message that it’s okay to come in with excuses and seek validation instead of being accountable for their lack of effort.

Very Well Said.

 

[sangheilios]

For whatever consolation it may provide

A shorter term pump does not invalidate the bigger picture/overall trend that I am talking about. Same arguments can be made pertaining to fertility rates, say some country passes legislation that aids in maternal leave in order to combat declining fertility rates. They may have a couple years where they see a small boost, but the overall trend to the downside remains.

You should look at these trends like you would with the stock market.

 

[SW15]

Something you'll find is that many of these women panic when they get into their mid-late 30s and have a last call baby, as @SW15 has used as a term for this

Thanks for the credit on the term 'Last Call Baby'. There were many of those 'Last Call Babies' in my social circle. In my social circle, it was bougie married women doing it.