Im only realizing this now: My Ex girlfriend completely fvcked me up. Fvcking up my new relationship

[Adz--]

Strong secure men give value to other because they have so much value in themselves to give. Alpha men don't need to suck value from other people. This is what I need help on the most, and this is what I need to help myself on the most. I need to become a strong man. I need to accept that I have deep rooted insecurities and that they are affecting my actions in a negative way.

You got some sound points there and you know what direction you want to go in all of this and it sounds like you're going with your gut instinct.

You're right about the secure men thing you wrote, but also remember that secure men know when to stop giving value and to walk away in some cases. Not because you're a jerk, selfish or what ever other bs. It's because you have to realise when the other person is starting to take advantage\ take the p1ss out of that fact.
When you stop or walk away that's you keeping your best interests and doing you\ maintaining your frame.
That's one thing I didn't do and learnt from with my past deep rooted insecurities, that I then projected on to my BPD ex. As you can guess it left me in a similar predicament as yourself.

But keep on going man, it sounds like you're heading in the right direction to sort these issues out and you're thinking about them logically. One thing I will say is from past errors Is don't tell your current GF too much about your ex cos they can dig that 5hit up and turn it on you. Feel it out and keep it brief and short where need be.
Keep going man.

Adz--

 

[narcissist]

You got some sound points there and you know what direction you want to go in all of this and it sounds like you're going with your gut instinct.

You're right about the secure men thing you wrote, but also remember that secure men know when to stop giving value and to walk away in some cases. Not because you're a jerk, selfish or what ever other bs. It's because you have to realise when the other person is starting to take advantage\ take the p1ss out of that fact.
When you stop or walk away that's you keeping your best interests and doing you\ maintaining your frame.
That's one thing I didn't do and learnt from with my past deep rooted insecurities, that I then projected on to my BPD ex. As you can guess it left me in a similar predicament as yourself.

But keep on going man, it sounds like you're heading in the right direction to sort these issues out and you're thinking about them logically. One thing I will say is from past errors Is don't tell your current GF too much about your ex cos they can dig that 5hit up and turn it on you. Feel it out and keep it brief and short where need be.
Keep going man.

Adz--

This is an absolutely great point. Giving value to people is ultimately contingent on them respecting you. I try to give value to everyone, and only when I am disrespected do they stop getting my value. That I think is a great way to look at things because, you ultimately open your arms to the world by immediately giving value to people, and assuming they will respect that, and only in the circumstance that they disrespect you do you take it away. Its the optimistic perspective. The other option is that you don't give value to people until you get respect from them first. So, this perspective automatically assumes that people will for the most part take advantage of your value giving and so only those that go above and beyond and demonstrate respect first will get value. This I suppose might be termed the cynical perspective. I don't know which is better, but I have tried the cynical one and ultimately I think it leads to negative outcomes. I suppose I for sure hold the cynical perspective in my relationship. I assume cheating from the outset, and so I hold back giving my value. What I ultimately need to do is switch to the optimistic perspective. HOWEVER, this does not mean that I will give value no matter what. On the contrary, I will stop giving value to anyone that hurts me, disrespects me, or takes advantage of me. BUT, I will give value to people until proven otherwise. Its an open-arms strategy, but with a grounding of self-respect. I feel this is what characterizes a strong man. This is why I have decided to completely erase my ex from my life. Its a matter of self-respect.

 

[sazc]

Thank you. I try to get at the bottom of what is ultimately affecting me in a negative way. I may not have touched upon every possible issue within me regarding my unhealthy actions in my relationship. But I do think this is a great start.

I will check out post secret. In what way do you think you his will benefit my relationship?

I too think that the way I have outlined is the best way for me to tell me girlfriend. It comes from a strong position and not from insecurity. And ultimately this is what I have been getting at. I should be attempting to act in a way that comes from a strong position and does not derive from insecurity.

so postsecret is about people writing in about the secrets that haunt them. There are a lot of different topics that the LW's send it, some of them are cheating, relationships, fears, etc.
Sometimes you will see the harder topics, suicide, death, being gay, relationship abuse, etc. on Postsecret. It's a way to 'spontaneously' start a conversation and have discussion and learn about your GF, and she about you.

Go give it a quick read to see what I am trying to convey. It's just a way to get discussions going.

 

[Adz--]

This is an absolutely great point. Giving value to people is ultimately contingent on them respecting you. I try to give value to everyone, and only when I am disrespected do they stop getting my value. That I think is a great way to look at things because, you ultimately open your arms to the world by immediately giving value to people, and assuming they will respect that, and only in the circumstance that they disrespect you do you take it away. Its the optimistic perspective. The other option is that you don't give value to people until you get respect from them first. So, this perspective automatically assumes that people will for the most part take advantage of your value giving and so only those that go above and beyond and demonstrate respect first will get value. This I suppose might be termed the cynical perspective. I don't know which is better, but I have tried the cynical one and ultimately I think it leads to negative outcomes. I suppose I for sure hold the cynical perspective in my relationship. I assume cheating from the outset, and so I hold back giving my value. What I ultimately need to do is switch to the optimistic perspective. HOWEVER, this does not mean that I will give value no matter what. On the contrary, I will stop giving value to anyone that hurts me, disrespects me, or takes advantage of me. This is why I have decided to completely erase my ex from my life. Its a matter of self-respect.

In my opinion and past experiences you're right about the cynical perspective, it will only breed more negativity and could potentially alter your mind set\ expectations on others to continuously prove their worth to you which could then stroke\ enlarge the ego.

The optimistic perspective is good however in my personal experiences and view it is flawed in some aspects, yes it is good, positive and when someone f*ucks up the giving is withdrawn. However what about those who don't mess up\ disrespect you but still take your value and suck the life out of you without realising, those are the ones to be watchful for. But again it depends on the other person I.e their behaviour, body language, thought processes, life on social media. These are all give aways on what their true self is.

So far what I've found best works is a realistic perspective, which is best of both. You give yourself a bit, feel the situation out and give\withdraw\adjust as needed.
However from a relationships perspective I wouldnt know if this would work as I haven't tested it as I'm still single and recovering from the past.

At the end of the day ive found that it boils down to your own happiness\ contentness, mental head space when it comes deep rooted insecurities. Are you moving forward, are you content, are your foundations (mental, logical thinking, rational thinking, humour, confidence, memory, happiness\ contentness, back bone\strength, forward thinking, calmness and anger in small doses) strong, set and firm.
If they arent, what can be done to improve them, how can it be done and where\ what means can it be done through.

Adz--

 

[narcissist]

In my opinion and past experiences you're right about the cynical perspective, it will only breed more negativity and could potentially alter your mind set\ expectations on others to continuously prove their worth to you which could then stroke\ enlarge the ego.

The optimistic perspective is good however in my personal experiences and view it is flawed in some aspects, yes it is good, positive and when someone f*ucks up the giving is withdrawn. However what about those who don't mess up\ disrespect you but still take your value and suck the life out of you without realising, those are the ones to be watchful for. But again it depends on the other person I.e their behaviour, body language, thought processes, life on social media. These are all give aways on what their true self is.

So far what I've found best works is a realistic perspective, which is best of both. You give yourself a bit, feel the situation out and give\withdraw\adjust as needed.
However from a relationships perspective I wouldnt know if this would work as I haven't tested it as I'm still single and recovering from the past.

At the end of the day ive found that it boils down to your own happiness\ contentness, mental head space when it comes deep rooted insecurities. Are you moving forward, are you content, are your foundations (mental, logical thinking, rational thinking, humour, confidence, memory, happiness\ contentness, back bone\strength, forward thinking, calmness and anger in small doses) strong, set and firm.
If they arent, what can be done to improve them, how can it be done and where\ what means can it be done through.

Adz--

Yeah, you are right, I may have set up a false dichotomy. You are actually more on the button with the realistic perspective. It is highly important to weed out people who are negative, even if they are not disrespecting you, or hurting you in any conscious way. I say however, that I would not withdrawal giving value to them, as I think people like this need the value the most, but I would stay a good distance away from them, and if I am ever around them by whatever circumstances that may arise, I would give them some value and move on and keep my cool distance afterwards. Now do I do this? Probably not. I just think it is the best way to approach it. I find it hard for me to be compassionate at times but I want to change this. So, for the future, you are right. I should definitely stay a cool distance away from people that are unconsciously sucking value from me and pulling me into their negative loop, (perhaps they are depressed etc), but if ever the circumstance arises where I am around them, however rare this circumstance might be, I would still provide them with some value, because they are not consciously hurting me. But it is essential to keep a cool distance away from people like this. They are infectious and will bring you into their negative spiral.

 

[sazc]

Yeah, you are right, I may have set up a false dichotomy. You are actually more on the button with the realistic perspective. It is highly important to weed out people who are negative, even if they are not disrespecting you, or hurting you in any conscious way. I say however, that I would not withdrawal giving value to them, as I think people like this need the value the most, but I would stay a good distance away from them, and if I am ever around them by whatever circumstances that may arise, I would give them some value and move on and keep my cool distance afterwards. Now do I do this? Probably not. I just think it is the best way to approach it. I find it hard for me to be compassionate at times but I want to change this. So, for the future, you are right. I should definitely stay a cool distance away from people that are unconsciously sucking value from me and pulling me into their negative loop, (perhaps they are depressed etc), but if ever the circumstance arises where I am around them, however rare this circumstance might be, I would still provide them with some value, because they are not consciously hurting me. But it is essential to keep a cool distance away from people like this. They are infectious and will bring you into their negative spiral.

Brenee Brown talks about letting people in just like you suggest - giving them a small, fairly insignificant piece of vulnerable information about yourself in order to test how they react, what they do with it, if they are worthy of being close to you.

Google "Brenee Brown Ted talk" for some videos. She has some books out too.

 

[LastManstanding]

Yeah, you are right, I may have set up a false dichotomy. You are actually more on the button with the realistic perspective. It is highly important to weed out people who are negative, even if they are not disrespecting you, or hurting you in any conscious way. I say however, that I would not withdrawal giving value to them, as I think people like this need the value the most, but I would stay a good distance away from them, and if I am ever around them by whatever circumstances that may arise, I would give them some value and move on and keep my cool distance afterwards. Now do I do this? Probably not. I just think it is the best way to approach it. I find it hard for me to be compassionate at times but I want to change this. So, for the future, you are right. I should definitely stay a cool distance away from people that are unconsciously sucking value from me and pulling me into their negative loop, (perhaps they are depressed etc), but if ever the circumstance arises where I am around them, however rare this circumstance might be, I would still provide them with some value, because they are not consciously hurting me. But it is essential to keep a cool distance away from people like this. They are infectious and will bring you into their negative spiral.

I completely understand your underlined statements. I think cutting people out of your life is an essential skill that all successful people utilize. Everyone has expectations of everyone else and it's ok to distance from those who don't see eye to eye. People say that you shouldn't burn bridges or that the continuing variable is your own self in your relationships but in order to have true happiness you must have a perfect balance of selfless/selfIsh tendencies. Too selfless and you feel taken for granted. Too selfish and you're alone more often than not.

 

[oOh Nasty]

I have been treating it as Dont be 100% in the relationship and thats the only way you wont get hurt.

What exactly do you mean by 100%?

Does it mean feeling comfortable letting your guard down? Or do you just wish for that content feeling of security [that she won't cheat]?

I'm sure you've learned already that humans, and women especially, are pretty volatile when it comes to commitment. The best thing we can do is screen and next, screen and next.

Or do you mean you want to be able to be completely open to her regarding your emotions? Do you want to be able to tell her how much she means to you without having to worry about her feeling smothered or disgusted?

If that's the case, my question is, even if you're able to spill your heart out to her whenever you want without any consequences, would that actually make you happier as a man?

Also, are you currently even seeing any girls at the moment?

You say that you are afraid any girl you become exclusive with will cheat on you. Come back and post this again once you're actually dating a girl who you find is attractive and also really into you.

I'm just ruling out the possibility that thinking a girl will cheat on you without even seeing any red flags yet is an excuse not to get up and do something.

 

[narcissist]

What exactly do you mean by 100%?

Does it mean feeling comfortable letting your guard down? Or do you just wish for that content feeling of security [that she won't cheat]?

I'm sure you've learned already that humans, and women especially, are pretty volatile when it comes to commitment. The best thing we can do is screen and next, screen and next.

Or do you mean you want to be able to be completely open to her regarding your emotions? Do you want to be able to tell her how much she means to you without having to worry about her feeling smothered or disgusted?

If that's the case, my question is, even if you're able to spill your heart out to her whenever you want without any consequences, would that actually make you happier as a man?

Also, are you currently even seeing any girls at the moment?

You say that you are afraid any girl you become exclusive with will cheat on you. Come back and post this again once you're actually dating a girl who you find is attractive and also really into you.

I'm just ruling out the possibility that thinking a girl will cheat on you without even seeing any red flags yet is an excuse not to get up and do something.

Yeah I have a girlfriend. I am not exactly sure what I mean by 100%. I guess I mean being open-hearted and giving value and not acting out of insecurity. Not necessarily being completely open about my emotions. But rather, not sucking value from her, and not trying to make her inferior as a result of my insecurity of infidelity. Its about value to me. I still want to be a boss, and I still want to be a strong man but I want to be in the relationship and act in a way that doesn't come from insecurity and fear. I guess this is what I mean by 100% in it.

So not letting my guard down. I will act with self-respect and not out of insecurity.

She hasn't had any red flags. She is actually a really good girlfriend.

 

[oOh Nasty]

Yeah I have a girlfriend. I am not exactly sure what I mean by 100%. I guess I mean being open-hearted and giving value and not acting out of insecurity. Not necessarily being completely open about my emotions. But rather, not sucking value from her, and not trying to make her inferior as a result of my insecurity of infidelity. Its about value to me. I still want to be a boss, and I still want to be a strong man but I want to be in the relationship and act in a way that doesn't come from insecurity and fear. I guess this is what I mean by 100% in it.

So not letting my guard down. I will act with self-respect and not out of insecurity.

She hasn't had any red flags. She is actually a really good girlfriend.

I see now.

My next set of questions. What do you mean by "giving value?" What is your definition of giving value to a girl? I am asking because I don't think I've ever thought to myself before... "How will I give value to this woman?" The question I always ask myself is "Am I an attractive man to this woman [and all women I deem attractive]? And if so, what is my procedure to keep it that way?"

What do you mean by "not sucking value from her?" Not trying to make her inferior?" Do you mean, her value in your own mind? I'm guessing you mean thinking that she's a cheating h0 when she's not. Take a look around when you have a chance. Go to your job, go to the store, go outside and look at all those red flagged, AWish, possibly BPDish women all around you. Be thankful she's not one of those. Go ask your friends about their girlfriends and wives. You probably have it better than them at the moment.

The good thing is that there is currently no actualized problem, if you honestly feel that there are no red flags with your current gf.

 

[narcissist]

I see now.

My next set of questions. What do you mean by "giving value?" What is your definition of giving value to a girl? I am asking because I don't think I've ever thought to myself before... "How will I give value to this woman?" The question I always ask myself is "Am I an attractive man to this woman [and all women I deem attractive]? And if so, what is my procedure to keep it that way?"

What do you mean by "not sucking value from her?" Not trying to make her inferior?" Do you mean, her value in your own mind? I'm guessing you mean thinking that she's a cheating h0 when she's not. Take a look around when you have a chance. Go to your job, go to the store, go outside and look at all those red flagged, AWish, possibly BPDish women all around you. Be thankful she's not one of those. Go ask your friends about their girlfriends and wives. You probably have it better than them at the moment.

The good thing is that there is currently no actualized problem, if you honestly feel that there are no red flags with your current gf.

Giving value in my opinion means two things 1] being secure enough in your life that you don't have the need to suck value and validation from women to feel good about yourself and 2] offering value to her life, just in virtue of being around you because you are a secure strong man. It is not about "providing" because you certainly don't want to come off as a provider. It is about being so foundationally secure that your "being" gives value to people, but also that your relationships aren't contingent on getting value from people. This is a huge aspect. Sure some value must be gotten from others, but I think that to view relationships as that being their only function, it can be detrimental and it can be an egoistic connection rather that a genuine one.

Honestly, though, I am not quite sure. It is a hard thing to define. I appreciate the socratic method though. It is helping me think this through. Maybe you guys can offer your opinion of what value-giving is and why it is fundamental.

 

[logicallefty]

@narcissist I dont have a lot to add to what others said. I do think that being as emotionally distant as you can in a relationship is best.. give just the right amount so the relationship works for you but no more.. Also, i agree that we as strong men still need a place to air our grievances about life.. Never do that with any woman you ever want sex with again .. My best place and only place to do that is right here on sosuave. I don't plan on sex ever with any of ya'all even if i find out that you all are women I would love to rail like if @El Payaso is Sandra Bullock, @Atom Smasher is Demmi Moore, @Desdinova is Sarah Silverman, or @Espi is Tiffany Trump.. Would love to fvck all ya all, but I value your sosuave brotherhood more so even if you guys were really thise hot pieces of poon I would have to say "no" to sex to you..sorry about the damage to your hamsters but I know you will make it LOL

 

[oOh Nasty]

offering value to her life, just in virtue of being around you because you are a secure strong man

Pretty good. I'm curious as to why you feel so discontented.

I'm still a little bit confused of your definition of value though, earnestly.

offering value to her life

What does this entail? Happiness? Emotional fluctuations? Security?

If I'm understanding you correctly, your meaning of value is all the positive emotions and feelings a woman experiences while being in your presence or even at just the thought of you. When you say that you want relationships that:

aren't contingent on getting value from people

then what else is she getting? Other than [your definition of] value, what else can she possibly get from you that will make you feel satisfied? If she wasn't with you because of your value, then what?

If your relationship with her is based on you leading her and her being in your presence and feeling good about it, isn't that a form of her "getting value" from you? Correct me if I'm wrong.

What is the value she is providing you? If she stopped providing that value, would you even want to continue your relationship with her? I'll shoot in the dark and say that value from her equates to her giving you sex, deference, and companionship. I'm sure that you don't go into a relationship saying things like "alright look, you give me sex and I'll give you emotional entertainment." But if you view a lot of relationships, that's usually how the dynamic plays out without being said, and if it doesn't, the relationship ends. Aside from these exchanging of values, what else is there? Of course there are other things such as empathy and a desire for another's well-being, but that comes with the expense of time.

Perhaps what you are searching for is sincerity. You don't want relationships based on "this is what I will give you, and so I will expect this much in return." You want all of your actions to come straight from your being and not have any hint of Machiavellianism whatsoever.

My take is that even if I feel I'm not in an egoistic kind of relationship with another person, there must be some value that the other person is providing me with, whether I'm conscious of it or not. As long as there's two way value, I'll be pretty content. I read something by Nietzsche years ago talking about how friends don't even need to talk to each other. They can just sit in the same room and enjoy each other's company. I mentioned this to one of my friends and thought I was so spiritually evolved. In the end, we still ended up taking value from each other. The value of "not having to be alone at the moment."

I don't think there's anything wrong in relationships based on the exchange of values. As long as you are honest to yourself and confident in your right state of mind that what you are giving and taking away is not bringing harm to the other person.

 

[Desdinova]

@Desdinova is Sarah Silverman,

I got lured into this thread to be called a bytch? I'm offended!

My first girlfriend has completely made me have a subconscious fear of commitment and loss, to the point where I cannot even be myself around my new girlfriend.

I really focused on directing all my negative thoughts and energy toward the woman in question as opposed to women as a whole. I hated and vilified the bytch who drove me here and I was able to get my sweet revenge on her. She did a lot of stuff that really drove those fvcking daggers in.

That heartbreak really takes a while to get over. The pain is real. The deception is real. The hate is real. Focus on directing it toward the bytch who caused it.

I see every woman as a blank slate when I first start dating them. I take a lot of notes on those slates. When the red flags start to show up, then I start questioning my investment in them.

The only bad news I have for you is that most women are actually not worthy of a relationship. When they're loaded with orbiters, tattoos, self-entitlement, and all the other bad stuff under the sun, you really start to question whether there's any half-decent women out there.

There are a lot of posts on this site about how women are only good for fvcking and throwing away. Guess what? Most of them are. I personally can't say whether your woman is worthy of commitment or not because I don't know her. Your gut might be trying to tell you something, or you may actually be damaged from that bytch who broke your heart. Only you can figure that one out. If someone else told you that you're afraid of commitment, they're probably wrong. I've been told that many times due to the high number of women I've dated, but whenever I look back in my personal dating history, every one of those bytches wasn't worth my time.

 

[LastManstanding]

I got lured into this thread to be called a bytch? I'm offended!


I really focused on directing all my negative thoughts and energy toward the woman in question as opposed to women as a whole. I hated and vilified the bytch who drove me here and I was able to get my sweet revenge on her. She did a lot of stuff that really drove those fvcking daggers in.

That heartbreak really takes a while to get over. The pain is real. The deception is real. The hate is real. Focus on directing it toward the bytch who caused it.

I see every woman as a blank slate when I first start dating them. I take a lot of notes on those slates. When the red flags start to show up, then I start questioning my investment in them.

The only bad news I have for you is that most women are actually not worthy of a relationship. When they're loaded with orbiters, tattoos, self-entitlement, and all the other bad stuff under the sun, you really start to question whether there's any half-decent women out there.

There are a lot of posts on this site about how women are only good for fvcking and throwing away. Guess what? Most of them are. I personally can't say whether your woman is worthy of commitment or not because I don't know her. Your gut might be trying to tell you something, or you may actually be damaged from that bytch who broke your heart. Only you can figure that one out. If someone else told you that you're afraid of commitment, they're probably wrong. I've been told that many times due to the high number of women I've dated, but whenever I look back in my personal dating history, every one of those bytches wasn't worth my time.

You're right most women are not dateable by any means. If you want to be with the party girl you have to accept that **** could hit the fan at one of those parties. If you are a party guy then there are no problems. I don't think that some women aren't meant to find their significant other, everyone has someone they are very COMPATIBLE with.

Where men run into problems is where they date these types of girls when they are simultaneously working on self improvement. They bust ass making themselves better while the gf is worried about the next time she can go out/get attention. These women see that they are getting "outdone" in life and will more often than not try to **** test you out of your self improvement/habits. When successful you are kicked to the curb for being weak, when not successful they will treat you like **** until you leave them.

I know this sounds like blaming other people for your relationship issues but we as men should realize that it is not all our fault. You can run a PERFECT game or whatever you want to call it and still get your feelings hurt. I know that was why my last relationship failed. It was not me (college,workout,independent) it was her(no direction, no goals). So while I was a strong man in the relationship I ultimately picked the wrong women who couldn't keep up with my direction.

Before guys ask themselves where they went wrong they need to ask themselves what type of woman they are with. A majority of people get hurt by women who aren't really worth the hurt to begin with.

 

[Adz--]

Yeah, you are right, I may have set up a false dichotomy. You are actually more on the button with the realistic perspective. It is highly important to weed out people who are negative, even if they are not disrespecting you, or hurting you in any conscious way. I say however, that I would not withdrawal giving value to them, as I think people like this need the value the most, but I would stay a good distance away from them, and if I am ever around them by whatever circumstances that may arise, I would give them some value and move on and keep my cool distance afterwards. Now do I do this? Probably not. I just think it is the best way to approach it. I find it hard for me to be compassionate at times but I want to change this. So, for the future, you are right. I should definitely stay a cool distance away from people that are unconsciously sucking value from me and pulling me into their negative loop, (perhaps they are depressed etc), but if ever the circumstance arises where I am around them, however rare this circumstance might be, I would still provide them with some value, because they are not consciously hurting me. But it is essential to keep a cool distance away from people like this. They are infectious and will bring you into their negative spiral.

Yes pretty much, you get the jist of where I'm coming from. One thing to be wary off is the ones that you still give a little bit too, might end up milking you without realising.
Also if you use some laws of the 48 powers you can gain or play with these people if you so wanted to.
On the whole I can't really add much more that everyone else hasn't mentioned but always put you and yourself first above everyone. No one else will do anything for you expect for yourself man.

Adz--