I was a virgin at 21 and at 23 I have slept with 12 women but now I'm mentally ruined.

[Dr.Suave]

I want to have kids and a wife eventually but what's the point of improving myself and busting my ass on my career if I'm going to end up with a woman that has slept with 8 other men? I rather be alone.

Take it easy brother. At your age, its still very possible to find a girl worthy of exclusivity. Be patient

 

[Dr.Suave]

How do you know if a woman is LTR material? Apart from her personality and looks, how do you tell she doesn't sleep around?

This is a very polarizing thing on SoSuave. A lot of guys here will tell you:

"You are unrealistic/Insecure/delusional"
"Its not the 19XXs anymore"
"Dont ask her notch count, she will never tell you the real number anyway"

Or variants of the above.

Then...There´s the other side. I suggest you PM @Modern Man Advice and @Black Widow Void for some advice on this particular topic and avoid all the negativity polarizing.

 

[CornbreadFed]

So you are willing to white knight for them too? Why are you even here then participating in conversations that mostly lead to how to manipulate these "brainwashed" innocent women?

How is acknowledging the fact that humans can be vulnerable to propaganda and unethical marketing practices considered 'white knighting'? Please help me understand!

 

[Black Widow Void]

Then...There´s the other side. I suggest you PM @Modern Man Advice and @Black Widow Void for some advice on this particular topic and avoid all the negativity polarizing.

Although I got laid earlier than the OP, ... when I was much younger, I could relate to the OP's attitude.

Eventually after much thought, I laughed at my own hypocrisy. In the early stages, I had this fairy-tale image of women. I was actually more angry because this image had been shattered by reality. The truth is women have hormones too. If we were women and could get laid often, wouldn't we choose to do so?

Do I think in double-standards? Yes, I admit it. I like the idea of a (so-called) 'pure women.' But that's what it is (it's a double standard and being a hypocrite).

 

[DreamAgain]

I respectfully disagree. He is playing the field until he meets a girl worthy of exclusivity, that´s like male sexual strategy 101. Im not saying its the best strategy or the only strategy, but I dont think this makes him a hypocrite.

he has to bang girls repeatedly to find out if she is worthy of exclusivity? I think through conversation and shared experiences a whole hell of a lot of information can be disclosed for any reasonably minded person to realize if serious considerations are warranted with a girl or not.

Let's call a spade a spade, he wants to enjoy in sexual pleasure, but does not want his serious girlfriend to have done the same. I wonder if this so called low body count woman would be happy with a guy like him who was going around town porking women left and right?

 

[DreamAgain]

How is acknowledging the fact that humans can be vulnerable to propaganda and unethical marketing practices considered 'white knighting'? Please help me understand!

You've gotta go to ignore, sorry buddy. Your extreme shifts from absolutism to relativism show you absolutely have no conviction in anything you are saying.

 

[Solomon]

As the title says, I'm 23 and have slept with 12 women in the past 2 years.
I posted this thread 2 years ago explaining my situation. I realized that I was sabotaging myself severely when it came to women.

Today, I have a job as a SOC analysts making $65k a year. On the women side of things, things have gotten better.

I'm currently seeing 3 women, dating and sex. I haven't and don't plan on committing to any of these women because that would take time away from my career progression. I have also joined the gym and I'm at 73kg.

The only thing I'm lacking is friends. I still have 0. The only reason I've slept with 12 women is because I literally took the approach of a computer. Read info about approaching, go out, try it out, fail, analyze, and improve. When I go out, I do it alone, no friends. This takes out all the fun out of life. I tried making friends but most of them talk nothing but bs. I tried making friends with similar interest, but they're all geeks doing IT stuff in their bedroom and never leave the house. The only friend I can actually hang out with for hours is my brother but he lives in Mexico City and almost never comes around.

Another issue I have is that I've noticed how slutty women really are and I hate to say it but that ****s with my mind. I see the women I'm talking to and the ones I meet with disgust because I assume they're all sluts. I still enjoy them but they disgust me. I even told one girl, "You're nothing but a slut to me. Where I'm going there's no place for sluts like you, I don't want to see you again".

I want to have kids and a wife eventually but what's the point of improving myself and busting my ass on my career if I'm going to end up with a woman that has slept with 8 other men? I rather be alone.

I also masturbate and watch porn on X, 2-3 a week. This is also part of the problem that I'm trying to fix but it has been hard.

I realized that I'm heading towards an unhealthy life (at least when it comes to women) and I came here to ask for help.

OP been there but honestly, you gotta keep it real, if you disguested by wh0res they are is some cognitive dissonance going on with you, If there wasn't you wouldn't feel disgusted nor would you BOTHER to deal with those women. This all comes down to your morals, standards, boundaries etc

IMO you have to start filtering low-quality women out and get with the woman you want, easier said than dont though, trust me I know

IMO your biggest problem is pornography, Porn skews and perverts a man's mind. I remember when I use to watch porn I started to objectify women just like you did and view them as a means to an end. Once I stopped watching porn (nearly 5 years ago) My view on women and sex have changed for the better and is far more healtheir

 

[CornbreadFed]

You've gotta go to ignore, sorry buddy. Your extreme shifts from absolutism to relativism show you absolutely have no conviction in anything you are saying.

I am not falling for this blatant strawman fallacy.

 

[Dr.Suave]

I think through conversation and shared experiences a whole hell of a lot of information can be disclosed for any reasonably minded person to realize if serious considerations are warranted with a girl or not.

True, you dont need to bang them. But if you can bang her easily, you had sex and maybe vet her / screen her in the process. Birds, one stone.

Let's call a spade a spade, he wants to enjoy in sexual pleasure, but does not want his serious girlfriend to have done the same.

...which totally makes sense to me? You say that as if there´s something wrong with that.

I wonder if this so called low body count woman would be happy with a guy like him who was going around town porking women left and right?

I think most women prefer a man with more experience than her, the same way they prefer a man who is taller than them, stronger than them, more money than them, etc. But there can be exceptions just like most things in life.

 

[Dr.Suave]

If we were women and could get laid often, wouldn't we choose to do so?

But 99.99% women can if fact get laid, easily, whenever they want; there´s always a metephorical line of thristy men that would bang them if they get the chance. While men have to earn sex via self improvement, game, escalation, etc. Women can get pregnant and men cant. That´s a few reasons why I politely disagree with the whole "Hypocrisy" and "double standard".

Anyways. The reason I suggested the OP to PM you is because you know its possible to find certain type of girls up to your early 30s. He is still too young to be this dissapointed.

 

[corrector]

BRO what is wrong with you. If you met a woman who has slept with 8 other men, by Western Standards, she's a Virgin.

I wouldn't let her slip away lol

Yeah, but Western Standards do not have much credibility as a reference point.

 

[DreamAgain]

True, you dont need to bang them. But if you can bang her easily, you had sex and maybe vet her / screen her in the process. Birds, one stone.


...which totally makes sense to me? You say that as if there´s something wrong with that.


I think most women prefer a man with more experience than her, the same way they prefer a man who is taller than them, stronger than them, more money than them, etc. But there can be exceptions just like most things in life.

There are two points here. For every additional girl that we collectively as men sleep with, the more these women are considered "damaged goods" for serious relationships, because it is almost universally accepted the larger a woman's bodycount, the less desirable she is for serious relationships with the end goal being marriage.

Then, we cannot collectively bemoan that there are too many women with high bodycounts and where are all the good girls, when collectively we are perpetuating the cycle.

Further, just out of personal principles, I feel it is moral to only demand from someone what I myself offer. I.e., if I am a fat slob who eats Cheetos and pizza everyday, it is unfair for me to request a fit girl who eats organic food for all her meals.

That does not mean I cannot request lower, meaning if I am rich, I can surely look for a poor girl. But the standard applies for equal than or less.

 

[Dr.Suave]

There are two points here. For every additional girl that we collectively as men sleep with, the more these women are considered "damaged goods" for serious relationships, because it is almost universally accepted the larger a woman's bodycount, the less desirable she is for serious relationships with the end goal being marriage.

Then, we cannot collectively bemoan that there are too many women with high bodycounts and where are all the good girls, when collectively we are perpetuating the cycle.

You make some good points brother. I just cant fully get it in my head that it´s somehow our job to intentionally not bang them, for their own good or whatever.

Im not spinning plates but I certainly cant blame a guy who says "Im gonna spin plates until I find a girl I consider worthy of exclusivity". I feel in a way he is kind of doing what´s he is supposed to do, even if somehow he is contributing to perpetuating the cycle.

If men´s sexual streategy is "Im gonna play the field until I find a good woman" and women´s strategy is should be "Im going to screen very good to avoid getting pump & ghosted, turned into a plate, stringed along, etc" then imho its not men perpetuating the cycle, it women, they are not following their strategy because feminism told them there´s nothing wrong with riding the Carousel, its "empowering" or something.

Im just thinking out loud. Im sorry if I cant fully understand your point of view.

 

[pipeman84]

There are two points here. For every additional girl that we collectively as men sleep with, the more these women are considered "damaged goods" for serious relationships, because it is almost universally accepted the larger a woman's bodycount, the less desirable she is for serious relationships with the end goal being marriage.

Then, we cannot collectively bemoan that there are too many women with high bodycounts and where are all the good girls, when collectively we are perpetuating the cycle.

You're talking as if women have no free will or they are forced into having sex. As if women don't self select early on if they're for relationship or for the streets. The good girls are not in the places where guys go to have fast sex (nightclubs, brothels etc).

Further, just out of personal principles, I feel it is moral to only demand from someone what I myself offer. I.e., if I am a fat slob who eats Cheetos and pizza everyday, it is unfair for me to request a fit girl who eats organic food for all her meals.

That does not mean I cannot request lower, meaning if I am rich, I can surely look for a poor girl. But the standard applies for equal than or less.

OK, why don't you demand they pee standing, just like guys do?
I agree that on a moral level, like attracts like, but you're missing the point that masculine and feminine are polarities, so you can't assess them using the same yardstick.

 

[DreamAgain]

You're talking as if women have no free will or they are forced into having sex. As if women don't self select early on if they're for relationship or for the streets. The good girls are not in the places where guys go to have fast sex (nightclubs, brothels etc).

OK, why don't you demand they pee standing, just like guys do?
I agree that on a moral level, like attracts like, but you're missing the point that masculine and feminine are polarities, so you can't assess them using the same yardstick.

What? No one is being forced into anything. Society and certain influences are however turning more of these potential "good girls" into easy ones. They are still doing this by their own volition, but like most children, women are easily impressionable and manipulated.

I am not missing any point. Just think intuitively. Would a low body count woman, lets say 2 or less, have any problem dating a guy with 100+ bodycount, or an equal body count to hers, all other factors being equal? Would she be more "impressed" by the 100 body count clone or value the 2 body count clone more?

 

[DreamAgain]

You make some good points brother. I just cant fully get it in my head that it´s somehow our job to intentionally not bang them, for their own good or whatever.

Im not spinning plates but I certainly cant blame a guy who says "Im gonna spin plates until I find a girl I consider worthy of exclusivity". I feel in a way he is kind of doing what´s he is supposed to do, even if somehow he is contributing to perpetuating the cycle.

If men´s sexual streategy is "Im gonna play the field until I find a good woman" and women´s strategy is should be "Im going to screen very good to avoid getting pump & ghosted, turned into a plate, stringed along, etc" then imho its not men perpetuating the cycle, it women, they are not following their strategy because feminism told them there´s nothing wrong with riding the Carousel, its "empowering" or something.

Im just thinking out loud. Im sorry if I cant fully understand your point of view.

You can think about it like this. Suppose the laws were changed tomorrow that stealing was no longer illegal. Actually in some cities this is the case up to a certain $. Would you go around into stores and just start stuffing your pockets and walking out?

So, what one should do is a different discussion than what one actually does given the parameters or conditions of a certain situation. However, I still believe that in order for society to function properly and prosper, certain things must be condemned and discouraged, including the above example, and including many tenants of feminism, such that women can sleep around with no repercussions in terms of societal judgement, etc. Even if I personally am reaping the rewards of such decisions, it doesn't make it right.

 

[pipeman84]

I am not missing any point. Just think intuitively. Would a low body count woman, lets say 2 or less, have any problem dating a guy with 100+ bodycount, or an equal body count to hers, all other factors being equal? Would she be more "impressed" by the 100 body count clone or value the 2 body count clone more?

100+ bodycount is extreme example, but anyway.
It all depends on how the guy got the 100+ bodycount. If he practically dedicated his life to it with swipe apps, cold approach, nightlife then most probably he's a mess and a woman with 2 or less partners would spot it very quickly.
If he's some minor celebrity and women threw themselves at him or he's rich and just fvcked escorts, then I don't really see a problem. He'll appear to the same woman as a normal guy who instead of masturbating like most guys, he took advantage of his status/money.

 

[DreamAgain]

100+ bodycount is extreme example, but anyway.
It all depends on how the guy got the 100+ bodycount. If he practically dedicated his life to it with swipe apps, cold approach, nightlife then most probably he's a mess and a woman with 2 or less partners would spot it very quickly.
If he's some minor celebrity and women threw themselves at him or he's rich and just fvcked escorts, then I don't really see a problem. He'll appear to the same woman as a normal guy who instead of masturbating like most guys, he took advantage of his status/money.

Fine, it's an extreme example, I don't know a reasonable number, but many guys here have claimed to have slept with over a hundred women, which is why I used it.

Yes, he can appear the same, but I posit his ability to pair bond is also diminished, as a woman's will be the more notches she accumulates.

The chances are increased he will see this girl as just another notch in his belt rather than consider serious relations with her with the end goal of marriage.

Even further so, the girl will probably think the same. "Hmm this guy has slept with a ton of women, he is a celebrity/athlete, I am probably just another notch in his belt for him". It is the modern day female delusion to accept men like this because society is trying to convince us collectively that women's body count doesn't matter, that makes her think the risk of being with such a guy has no repercussions. Even if she ends up being pumped and dumped, which is the likeliest outcome.

Does it mean it will definitely be like this? No. But this is the likeliest outcome for most cases.

The point is, I don't think either side is reasonable in this. A guy who has slept with a ton of women suddenly deciding he wants a pious low body count girl, or a girl who has slept with a ton of men now pretending she is all innocent and wants a pious, nice man to settle down with and play house with 2 kids. Ultimately you reap what you sow, decisions have consequences.

 

[Dr.Suave]

You can think about it like this. Suppose the laws were changed tomorrow that stealing was no longer illegal. Actually in some cities this is the case up to a certain $. Would you go around into stores and just start stuffing your pockets and walking out?

This is a good question. Maybe I would steal a little piece of chocolate or something, just to feel "The Rush". But that would be about it. I would not go around stuffing my pockets because if everyone did that, the stores would go bankrupt and that´s bad for everyone.

You have given me some food for thought and I will think more about this. Im still not sure I agree but I least now I have a much better understanding of where you are coming from. Thank you for your kind reply.

 

[DreamAgain]

Although I got laid earlier than the OP, ... when I was much younger, I could relate to the OP's attitude.

Eventually after much thought, I laughed at my own hypocrisy. In the early stages, I had this fairy-tale image of women. I was actually more angry because this image had been shattered by reality. The truth is women have hormones too. If we were women and could get laid often, wouldn't we choose to do so?

Do I think in double-standards? Yes, I admit it. I like the idea of a (so-called) 'pure women.' But that's what it is (it's a double standard and being a hypocrite).

Why wouldn't we? Well, if I were a woman, I would think, I am giving up my most valued commodity, my purity, for likely nothing. Basically the only real thing a woman can give a man is her sexual availability. We can cook, clean, house ourselves, earn our own income. We can find other likeminded men to have spirited conversations with and learn from. A woman by selecting us as a sexual partner means I am essentially trading the most valuable card I have in the deck with you, and my return many times is nothing nowadays. That seems like a very foolish trade to make.

I wouldn't be surprised, if you were to honestly poll women, that they have the strongest feelings for the first guy they slept with. This is for normal women, not turbo wh0res.