I need help/advice on my perspective, recent string of failed first dates

[DreamAgain]

I have had a string of 5 bad first dates so far and I'm suspecting the problem is with me, and I would like some advice as to what to do.

Basically, I have tried to maximize my looks as much as possible, improve my style, fitness, my finances are in order, and I have had some success in getting numbers of girls 7-8 years younger than me in bars (I'm 31). I don't have an age cutoff for the girls I approach, I just go to the ones that look physically appealing, and they happen to be in this age group.

Nevertheless, I have had despite initial success in number closing and setting up first dates, I have had bad first dates where I have been turned off to even try to physically escalate because the conversations have gone horribly.

I try to be as educated as possible across a spectrum of topics, and not talk about them in a dry manner but infuse storytelling aspects to keep them interesting to whomever is listening. I have actively worked on this and practiced it, so even obtuse technical topics at my work I can explain to a layman in some manner that can pique a person's interest.

Where I have been turned off though, is that in return these girls have only really talked about where they want to travel or have traveled, what recent restaurants they have eaten at or where they want to eat, or telling me gossip about their friends that I don't care about. I have tried to feign interest in this to sleep with these girls but at the end of the night this approach is so antithetical to my philosophy of self improvement that I just get completely demotivated, end the date politely with some nonrelated justification and there is no further interaction after this.

Travel in itself is interesting but the gist of what I have learned is that the only reason these girls have traveled is to take pictures for their social media. They did nothing to immerse themselves in the local culture, to perhaps learn the local language where they went, or any insightful comments about how the place they went differs from where they are now.

Further, on the food front, I mean this to me is entirely banal, I appreciate a good meal but there are a million other things that are more interesting to me than if a place was "sooo good" or "sooo bad". I can fake interest in this and spin up some anecdotes of my own but this is an instant demotivater for me to continue the date.

Lastly, the gossip front, well this is self explanatory but to give some concrete examples. "My friend xyz recently did this and I couldnt believe it because I didnt think she was that type of person, yada yada yada", or "Person abc did something that affected this relation in my social circle and I find it surprising". I can give more specific examples if needed.

Nevertheless, I am losing hope in dating and I understand the suggestion to stop hitting on girls in bars or on swipe apps, but I have largely failed in other types of meetup attempts. I have tried running clubs, co-ed sports leagues, meet ups of various kinds through facebook, and I have only met older women there that I do not find attractive, or if they are younger they are already in relationships. So bars/clubs and apps are my only avenues at this age.

What should I do?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You have to keep plugging through it and start changing things up. Eventually through trial and error you will find what works and start using that more and throw away the stuff that isn't working.

I know it's frustrating but that's really the only way it's going to work right. Eventually you will start seeing the shift from failed dates to good dates where you will get to the point where you KNOW this woman is going to want to see you again and then you'll have to decide whether she is good enough to add into your rotation.

Don't lose hope, I went through the same thing. I think everyone does to some degree. Just make sure you are open to experimentation with what you are doing and you'll figure it out.

Failure is the pathway to success at anything in life as long as you are willing to continue trying and learn from your previous experiences.

In my case it was me pressing too hard and being too sexual with the women too early. I had to dial it back a little bit. Once I did that things seemed to flow better for me. It's hard to say what you are doing that isn't working, we aren't there on the date and don't see the reactions from the women. You should work on being able to read body language and facial expressions so you can have an idea of how things are going while in date.

 

[pipeman84]

Doesn't sound like you did anything wrong, it just happened you went on dates with 5 women you had little to nothing in common with. You stayed true to who you are and didn't fake your way into further dates/their pants and that's to be appreciated.
You could look back and try to see if the signs weren't there that she isn't a good match right from the start, so that unpleasant first date could've been avoided entirely.

 

[RangerMIke]

There is no such thing as a failed first date. You have dates that end in sex and you have dates that go nowhere. You either find a connection or you discover nothing is going to happen, and you can quickly move on. Most of my first dates go nowhere, these are not failures... just keep doing this... you learn from experience. The only time you fail is if you learn nothing.

Eventually you will get really good at sniffing out women that really are not interested in you, or who are batsh!t crazy. The OP did nothing wrong he's just getting ahead of himself. It's better to go into 1st dates with the attitude that you are trying to figure out if this women is a good fit for you rather than hoping the night ends in sex.

 

[CheekyMonkey101]

I had this happen a while back.

How interesting are the conversations? One of the worst things you can make her feel is boredom, other than sexual disgust ofc.

 

[FinallyAlpha]

It seems to me that you have a fairly easily solvable problem.

You're getting lots of attractive young women to agree to go on a date with you (and actually show up). So you're already ahead of the vast majority of men.

At the beginning of the date, you find the woman physically attractive. That's the starting point. And then the date begins and you start speaking.

Your complaint is that, what these women have to say is so uninteresting to you that it turns you off to the point where you no longer find her attractive.

With respect, (1) you shouldn't be surprised, let alone demoralised, by the banality of what these women have to say, and (2) therefore it's your problem, not hers.

Why not try this...

Make her say interesting things.

So she says something banal. You then listen intently and interject in a skilful way with something thought provoking and interesting. Stimulate her emotionally and intellectually.

"omg my bff went to thailand" "have you ever been to Asia?" "no but I would love to go" "what's a memorable trip you've been on" "I went to the bahamas last year with my mom" "ah it's great that you are close with your mother; you've always had a good relationship with her?" "not really but she was diagnosed with cancer a couple of years ago and I realised how precious the time we have together is."

I'm obviously not a guru or master at this, but my point is there is always a way to take something from the superficial to the meaningful / interesting / substantive.

You can go deep. Not intensely deep; just a little deeper. And I think you'll discover lots of interesting, attractive possibilities.

In my view, you should be sitting in front of her, listening and observing with real intent and interest; and then drive the conversation a little bit deeper. Actually be interested in connecting with her. Emotional connection is akin to (worthwhile) sexual and romantic connection. One begets the other.

You're being too passive and relying on a physically attractive woman in her twenties to volunteer interesting, stimulating conversation. No, you're in charge. You have to take her there.

As I said, you've already done the hard part. Now just a little bit of work on the date.

through trial and error you will find what works

it was me pressing too hard and being too sexual with the women too early. I had to dial it back a little bit.

I also think these are good points, worth taking on board, for me at least.

 

[Dr.Suave]

You are still young @DreamAgain . Chill and keep playing the field. There is a good match for you out there.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

OP this will sound like board blasphemy but in your case you need to date older women (women your age or older, not mid 20's women from bars).

Or you can go on the apps and fish for precociously mature and intelligent 20-somethings. But if you are picking up 20-somethings in bars and acting like Young Sherlock Holmes on the date, you're fishing in the wrong pond.

 

[SW15]

There is no such thing as a failed first date. You have dates that end in sex and you have dates that go nowhere. You either find a connection or you discover nothing is going to happen, and you can quickly move on. Most of my first dates go nowhere, these are not failures... just keep doing this... you learn from experience. The only time you fail is if you learn nothing.

I do think there are failed first dates. I would say that I've had first dates that were a complete waste of time and money. Many of them were arranged through tech-based methods, so I stopped using tech-based methods to arrange first dates, which cut down on my "one date, no sex, no second date" type dates.

I have tried to maximize my looks as much as possible, improve my style, fitness, my finances are in order, and I have had some success in getting numbers of girls 7-8 years younger than me in bars (I'm 31). I don't have an age cutoff for the girls I approach, I just go to the ones that look physically appealing, and they happen to be in this age group.

Most men find 22-24 year olds most attractive. It's good that you are setting up first dates with them from bar interactions.

I have had despite initial success in number closing and setting up first dates, I have had bad first dates where I have been turned off to even try to physically escalate because the conversations have gone horribly.

I try to be as educated as possible across a spectrum of topics, and not talk about them in a dry manner but infuse storytelling aspects to keep them interesting to whomever is listening. I have actively worked on this and practiced it, so even obtuse technical topics at my work I can explain to a layman in some manner that can pique a person's interest.

Where I have been turned off though, is that in return these girls have only really talked about where they want to travel or have traveled, what recent restaurants they have eaten at or where they want to eat, or telling me gossip about their friends that I don't care about. I have tried to feign interest in this to sleep with these girls but at the end of the night this approach is so antithetical to my philosophy of self improvement that I just get completely demotivated, end the date politely with some nonrelated justification and there is no further interaction after this.

Most women under 25 are not capable of sophisticated or intelligent conversation. Try to connect with them physically or connect with them emotionally. You are not coming across as a "hawt guy that is like OMG so amazing". You have to show that you're a really fun guy. Or maybe you're picking some really bad women for dates. It's difficult for anyone on the internet to determine this.

I am losing hope in dating and I understand the suggestion to stop hitting on girls in bars or on swipe apps, but I have largely failed in other types of meetup attempts. I have tried running clubs, co-ed sports leagues, meet ups of various kinds through facebook, and I have only met older women there that I do not find attractive, or if they are younger they are already in relationships. So bars/clubs and apps are my only avenues at this age.

What happened in running clubs? Co-ed sports leagues are often a disappointment for most men.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Good points already made in this thread but I'll add my $.02

I have had some success in getting numbers of girls 7-8 years younger than me in bars

Reading through your whole post OP, this may be the crux of your problem right here. It sounds like you're looking to make real connections with these women. However, you're having a difficult time with this due to these young women's levels of maturity..

I have been turned off

I have tried to feign interest in this to sleep with these girls but at the end of the night this approach is so antithetical to my philosophy of self improvement that I just get completely demotivated

A lot of guys can go through the motions, fake it, whatever, because the end goal is getting that all mighty poosy. However, sounds like that's not going to work for you.

Travel in itself is interesting but the gist of what I have learned is that the only reason these girls have traveled is to take pictures for their social media.

I feel with that age group, it's just the norm. And a lot of the guys are the same way. So younger women haven't realized how much that kind of stuff can be a turn off to a more mature intelligent man.

Lastly, the gossip front, well this is self explanatory but to give some concrete examples. "My friend xyz recently did this and I couldnt believe it because I didnt think she was that type of person, yada yada yada", or "Person abc did something that affected this relation in my social circle and I find it surprising". I can give more specific examples if needed.

Yes, wholeheartedly agree. Stay away from that "gossip" as much as possible. For one, to keep your sanity, but also, you don't want her to start confusing you with her girlfriends.

I have only met older women there that I do not find attractive

Well.... if you're losing attraction for these younger women after getting to know them, then maybe you can gain attraction with older women after getting to know them... Just a thought.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Most first dates are going to be flops, this is normal

 

[jaymbrs]

Traveling and restaurants is what women talk about because it's what they believe is the most interesting thing about them. Not to mention hiking. Many many women are pretty lame and boring.

 

[SW15]

Most first dates are going to be flops, this is normal

A lot of first dates now are arranged via tech-based methods. It is more difficult to assess the probability of a good first date remotely. Pre-date video calls are probably the best option for reducing failed tech-based arranged first dates. It's a lot of effort to swipe, text, arrange a video call, then have a real first date. If you're going to go to those lengths, you might as well approach women in-person and set up dates.

5 straight first date failure from in-person arranged dates is a bad sign.

Many many women are pretty lame and boring.

One of the most boring dates I went on was a woman who only talked about her house and her dog.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

escalate. physically & verbally. Your not our with her to be her friend. Girls will often move the conversation in risqué territory. I’m usually a bit more passive here as girls tend to be assertive. But. Be prepared to be the instigator. Girls aren’t on. a date to have an interesting conversation. They know why they’re there. And. At least finish with a good night kiss.

 

[Bingo-Player]

Being playful is the key to interacting with women , ALWAYS be looking to say something witty , cheeky , funny or sexual

Especially on the first couple of dates you don't really want to get dragged into "serious" conversations like work or friends / family you can get into all that later down the line

Sometimes the girl will simply be too dull or uninterested too even hold a conversation there's not a lot you can do in this situation just wrap the date up and ghost her

 

[CornbreadFed]

So I want to further elaborate on my comment for OP. I am assuming you are getting dates from OLD or some other form of low establishing rapport type dates. Also, quit trying to get dates from CLUBS, quit going to clubs dear lord.

1). Girls are looking for a vibe more so than sex. Now, if you look like their “type“ then they might string you along for sex, but generally a girl can get sex from generally any guy pretty easy. What cannot get is on tap is “chemistry”, “spark”, “vibe”, and etc. What they are looking for generally doesn’t matter because faking your way in to relationship is not a good idea in my personal opinion. If a girl rejects you because there was no chemistry, take it as a blessing in disguise. Just do your best not to be a fvcking creep or weirdo on a date.

2). You are not the only guy she is talking to. She could’ve just had sex with a guy in a higher position than you right before the date. You don’t know this, so keep the dates simple and stupid until she puts out and starts hinting exclusivity. Go wherever you are comfortable with rather that be restaurants, bars, coffee, ice cream, etc. I have had most of my successful first dates at restaurants and a lot of failed first dates at bars and coffee shops, so don’t listen to the no first date restaurant rule. There are plenty of happy hours at restaurants that can be cheaper than bar dates. My favorite one is this place with a sushi & drink happy hour.

3). Shut the fvck until you get sex- Because of the abundance mentality, girls have extremely high expectations for guys on the first date. Even if you do have natural chemistry, she might still eliminate you for some random BS. Girls will not start investing in a guy until they have had sex with him period!!! The more you say, the more things she can put in her head to eliminate you for the next shiny piece of candy. I am not saying to be some weird John Wick, but play it calm and cool and make her open up to you. Once you get sex, then you can start to open up a little by little about yourself. Now, she could realize she made a mistake based on chemistry and dump you, but you got sex out of it so who fvcking cares.

 

[SmoothHendrixPS2]

You don't have a sexual vibe to you. Women don't care about intellect, or trivial bull crap.

 

[RazorRambo24]

You don't have a sexual vibe to you. Women don't care about intellect, or trivial bull crap.

This dude hit the nail on the head.

 

[corrector]

Most first dates are going to be flops, this is normal

You would know that. Maybe they are part of someone else's rotation.

 

[The Duke]

Most first dates are going to be flops, this is normal

Why do you think that is? After I started screening for high interest, and better understood how to connect with women it was a rarity to have this problem.