I gotta ask the board! Do you think women control the dating, love, and sex game?

[Greasy Pig]

At the end of the day, women still have to submit to a guy for sex to occur.
If they don't submit, then it's rape.

So that's why I think women are in control of most of the dating world. Realistically, the act of sex can only legally occur if she submits or allows a guy to fvck her.
Basically, women are the sole arbiters of if sex will occur, and that's a very powerful position to be in.

In past ages, women were expected to give it up whenever their man wanted it.
I'll never forget a scene in that HBO mini series, Rome, where an army is marching and an officer sees a young shepherd girl in a field. So he just gets off his horse, grabs the girl and fvcks her against a tree.
Tribal leaders and kings would fvck whoever they wanted. Marriage may have been a prerequisite in many cases but the women didn't have a say. They just had to submit whether they wanted to or not.

Nowadays, women have choice and they decide who they will allow to fvck them and that's why I think they hold the power.

 

[SoSuave666]

At the end of the day, women still have to submit to a guy for sex to occur.
If they don't submit, then it's rape.

So that's why I think women are in control of most of the dating world. Realistically, the act of sex can only legally occur if she submits or allows a guy to fvck her.
Basically, women are the sole arbiters of if sex will occur, and that's a very powerful position to be in.

In past ages, women were expected to give it up whenever their man wanted it.
I'll never forget a scene in that HBO mini series, Rome, where an army is marching and an officer sees a young shepherd girl in a field. So he just gets off his horse, grabs the girl and fvcks her against a tree.
Tribal leaders and kings would fvck whoever they wanted. Marriage may have been a prerequisite in many cases but the women didn't have a say. They just had to submit whether they wanted to or not.

Nowadays, women have choice and they decide who they will allow to fvck them and that's why I think they hold the power.

What's weird to me is that you don't really see much self-governance like that anymore. Those with power usually seek to enhance it, not diminish it. I'm sure at one point rape was normal...ie women didn't always have to submit. Why would a group of men give up the right to have sex with whomever they wanted at any given time? Feelings is the answer. Men can protect women in ways that women can't protect men. It's natural, to some extent, to want to protect those weaker than us. We do it with women, women do it with children, children do it with pets, etc. If you don't think children can take advantage of their moms, look again. I can weasel my way into anything with my mom, and so can my sister. Like I said, it's natural to protect those weaker than yourself.

Chicks will use this to their advantage...and have been doing so for hundreds of years whether we want to acknowledge it or not. Amazing how the weaker sex can become the dominant one by preying on natural human instincts. I guess if I was getting raped though I'd probably do the same.

When did rape become an actual "thing"? An act against the law? I bet it's well before the women's rights movement. Men have been pedestalizing women for ages...it just recently come back to bite us. I don't condoe rape by any means. And I definitely think we are far more civilized than we were 100 years ago. Getting rid of rape = good. But I don't see oil companies lowering the price of gas (raping my pockets). I don't see banks cutting interest rates. I don't see much mercy anymore.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

They don't control the game but they do have influence in online dating sites,( only because of the # of guys sending them a message).

The same trend happens offline too bro.

 

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

why or how does approaching, initiating, taking charge, taking control, leading, give you power? since those are masculine traits according to life, society, how the **** does that give us power? even this guy admits that women do the choosing, not men:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4XPOe6w6bo

 

[yyc12]

I'd say the power is in the hands of whichever one is being pursued; 99% of the time, it's the woman.

 

[Burroughs]

Those with power usually seek to enhance it, not diminish it. I'm sure at one point rape was normal...ie women didn't always have to submit. Why would a group of men give up the right to have sex with whomever they wanted at any given time? Feelings is the answer.

No not feelings

ownership

women were owned property first by father then transferred to the husband who she was to faithfully serve in return for shelter and protection...the man would receive heirs and a dutiful companion (s)

this was the course of human history for 2 million years

 

[HalfPUAHalfAFC]

and why do women hate, despise, loathe men who are desperate, needy, clingy, try too hard? why does it make a guy look weak, pathetic? nobody has ever bothered to explain that.

Put the shoe on the other foot. What does it look like when a woman "tries too hard"?

Too much make up.
Slutty clothes (not classy sexy)
Comes on to every guy at the bar
Flirts with you without being subtle at all
Blows up your phone
Etc.

We don't find that attractive in the same way girls don't find clinginess, desperation, overt attempts at seduction, bad kino, hovering, etc. attractive.

There's a sort of zen like principle here. Girls are attracted to guys who ARE attractive without coming off like they are TRYING to be attractive.

You can show interest in a woman without coming off as needy or desperate. I know, it's a fine line and I've experienced life on both sides. Men need to develop a better skill set in the sense that they can go into interactions in ways that avoid coming off as trying to hard, needy, desperate, etc. That's key.

 

[HalfPUAHalfAFC]

Men and women control different aspects of the dating game, to different degrees, and with change over time.

Let's start with the women.

Women control when the sex will happen and with whom. On top of that, it is still socially customary that men do the initial approach and it is her prerogative to accept or deny his advances. So, that gives her the power position starting out.

That said, us men choose WHO to approach and WHEN. There is nothing forcing us to approach any one woman or any of them at all. So, women must present themselves in a way that meets our standards.

The problem is that (1) men's standards are lower than women's for the most part and (2) the numbers dynamic simply means that women that fit men's criteria for attraction by definition are getting a TON more attention sexually than are men. So, they can be choosy.

A choosy woman tests and tests her prospects until a guy passes them.

What have us guys done in return? We PUT UP WITH THEIR BS and plow ahead.

Even if more men would not put up with women's constant testing, there are enough guys out there who will and she'll eventually get her reward. Thus, women have little incentive to change.... until they hit the wall and even then it's dicey.

As Rollo Tomassi keeps trying to hammer home, men can reclaim some of their power in the market by spinning plates. When a man has options, he puts up with less and less BS from women. Remember, women's natural default is already spinning plates (if she's not have sex with several guys, she's certainly cultivating her orbiters and can call any of them up for duty if needed). Our sniper mentality leads to supplication, neediness, oneities, and all the other ills we are familiar with. It also plays into the power women have out there on the market currently.

We cannot do much about women being the gatekeepers to sex. But as men we can change who we decide to approach, how often, how many, what we will put up with, etc. And if we do it in a way that shows that her vagina is NOT ENOUGH, then we regain some of our power.

As a whole, we've not yet shown contemporary women that they have to act in a way that is not simply her being shown a buffet of men from which to choose as if she's at a cattle auction.

And that won't be easy, but most men both want to get laid and to have relationships. So we are pushed to go out and look for women to meet and this gives woman initial hand. If we are cognizant of the dynamics, though, we can swing some of the power dynamic back our own way.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

That said, us men choose WHO to approach and WHEN. There is nothing forcing us to approach any one woman or any of them at all. So, women must present themselves in a way that meets our standards.

Horsesh1t logic. No offense. Have you looked at the state of affairs in society lately? Unless a girl is flat out HIDEOUS, she has MULTIPLE men chasing after her. Any girl better looking than a 4 out of 10 has at least two guys interested in her and actively chasing her at the same time while she checks out more options.

Your logic is good in theory but fails miserably in practice.

Look, I have been to clubs, bars, speed dating, singles parties, etc.

The guys on average at these events are 6-7 out of 10. The girls? Typically 5's AT BEST. AT BEST. The average girl at these events is about a 4 out of 10 in my opinion, while the average guy is a 6 out of 10.

What does the above observation say about who controls the dating game?

 

[HalfPUAHalfAFC]

Horsesh1t logic. No offense. Have you looked at the state of affairs in society lately? Unless a girl is flat out HIDEOUS, she has MULTIPLE men chasing after her. Any girl better looking than a 4 out of 10 has at least two guys interested in her and actively chasing her at the same time while she checks out more options.

Your logic is good in theory but fails miserably in practice.

Look, I have been to clubs, bars, speed dating, singles parties, etc.

The guys on average at these events are 6-7 out of 10. The girls? Typically 5's AT BEST. AT BEST. The average girl at these events is about a 4 out of 10 in my opinion, while the average guy is a 6 out of 10.

What does the above observation say about who controls the dating game?

No offense taken. My point still stands. Those guys are CHOOSING to approach those low-rank women. I do not have to and I don't. Neither do you.

And, you are right that many dudes do hit on those women and do so to such an extent that it teaches those cows only more entitlement. Still, the numbers of men hitting on them and the true hotties probably even out, i.e., both the cows and the hotties experience enough male attention to inflate their sense of self-worth.

That said, what's the point then of lowering ones standards if (1) they are not looking for a wife (2) not looking for "the One", and (3) if no matter who they approach the woman will nevertheless feel she has many choices?

So, yes, woman have initial power in the situation. But if men get choosier WHILE not putting up with her BS, then he undercuts her power. There are hot women out there that will BS you less and those that will BS you more. With the hard-azz tester, freaking just walk away, take their power away from them with your own power to NGAF.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

No offense taken. My point still stands. Those guys are CHOOSING to approach those low-rank women. I do not have to and I don't. Neither do you.

And, you are right that many dudes do hit on those women and do so to such an extent that it teaches those cows only more entitlement. Still, the numbers of men hitting on them and the true hotties probably even out, i.e., both the cows and the hotties experience enough male attention to inflate their sense of self-worth.

That said, what's the point then of lowering ones standards if (1) they are not looking for a wife (2) not looking for "the One", and (3) if no matter who they approach the woman will nevertheless feel she has many choices?

So, yes, woman have initial power in the situation. But if men get choosier WHILE not putting up with her BS, then he undercuts her power. There are hot women out there that will BS you less and those that will BS you more. With the hard-azz tester, freaking just walk away, take their power away from them with your own power to NGAF.

I agree with you on a point. You are absolutely right, if men chase low quality girls, they are making a CHOICE. Definitely agree. However, by virtue of OTHER men making such a choice, it affects the choices that are left available to you.

That is the problem we have now and why men have lost power. It is not really because of how women are. It is because of what men let women get away with and that there are too many men willing to settle for the lowest common denominator.

Other men are indirectly making a choice for you by approaching unattractive women or women significantly less attractive than themselves. That gives the edge to women in my opinion and that's how they control the dating game, because some other man as attractive as you and with similar status is willing to settle for less. I see men settle all the time. I almost never see a woman settle, because women don't have to settle, they always have an option to choose from.

 

[HalfPUAHalfAFC]

I agree with you on a point. You are absolutely right, if men chase low quality girls, they are making a CHOICE. Definitely agree. However, by virtue of OTHER men making such a choice, it affects the choices that are left available to you.

That is the problem we have now and why men have lost power. It is not really because of how women are. It is because of what men let women get away with and that there are too many men willing to settle for the lowest common denominator.

Other men are indirectly making a choice for you by approaching unattractive women or women significantly less attractive than themselves. That gives the edge to women in my opinion and that's how they control the dating game, because some other man as attractive as you and with similar status is willing to settle for less. I see men settle all the time. I almost never see a woman settle, because women don't have to settle, they always have an option to choose from.

I don't think we are that far apart, TTEOT. I think your point is implied in my original post, though I probably did not spell out exactly that way you have said it here; but I did, I think, intend for that to be one conclusion to my post. So, we are probably on the same page.

 

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

Men and women control different aspects of the dating game, to different degrees, and with change over time.

Let's start with the women.

Women control when the sex will happen and with whom. On top of that, it is still socially customary that men do the initial approach and it is her prerogative to accept or deny his advances. So, that gives her the power position starting out.

That said, us men choose WHO to approach and WHEN. There is nothing forcing us to approach any one woman or any of them at all. So, women must present themselves in a way that meets our standards.

The problem is that (1) men's standards are lower than women's for the most part and (2) the numbers dynamic simply means that women that fit men's criteria for attraction by definition are getting a TON more attention sexually than are men. So, they can be choosy.

A choosy woman tests and tests her prospects until a guy passes them.

What have us guys done in return? We PUT UP WITH THEIR BS and plow ahead.

Even if more men would not put up with women's constant testing, there are enough guys out there who will and she'll eventually get her reward. Thus, women have little incentive to change.... until they hit the wall and even then it's dicey.

As Rollo Tomassi keeps trying to hammer home, men can reclaim some of their power in the market by spinning plates. When a man has options, he puts up with less and less BS from women. Remember, women's natural default is already spinning plates (if she's not have sex with several guys, she's certainly cultivating her orbiters and can call any of them up for duty if needed). Our sniper mentality leads to supplication, neediness, oneities, and all the other ills we are familiar with. It also plays into the power women have out there on the market currently.

We cannot do much about women being the gatekeepers to sex. But as men we can change who we decide to approach, how often, how many, what we will put up with, etc. And if we do it in a way that shows that her vagina is NOT ENOUGH, then we regain some of our power.

As a whole, we've not yet shown contemporary women that they have to act in a way that is not simply her being shown a buffet of men from which to choose as if she's at a cattle auction.

And that won't be easy, but most men both want to get laid and to have relationships. So we are pushed to go out and look for women to meet and this gives woman initial hand. If we are cognizant of the dynamics, though, we can swing some of the power dynamic back our own way.

yeah, for the most part, women get sex, dating and relationships handed to them in a silver platter, but us men have to earn it unfortuneately

 

[SoSuave666]

No not feelings

ownership

women were owned property first by father then transferred to the husband who she was to faithfully serve in return for shelter and protection...the man would receive heirs and a dutiful companion (s)

this was the course of human history for 2 million years

Ownership is exactly what men had in the past. Elite men have given up ownership in lieu of women's rights. I understand the rich minority seeking to control others through feminism...that's not an issue. But giving up the ability to physically dominate women, at all costs...in the name of feminism, is something I don't understand.

My personal disposition is that human nature is to care for those less fortunate than ourselves. Like I said...man has caregiver nature for women...women for children...children for pets...

I'll never get married. I don't believe in the institution. There are certain things i hate about contemporary women that I can't even begin to explain. BUT, for most men, a good looking woman trumps rationalization any day. I'm at a point in my life where if a woman does not submit to me then I don't bother. But, having been a pvssy in my past, I can see why men would degrade themselves. Not saying it's right, just praying for their salvation.

As far as I'm concerned, every chick is in the danger zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vuZ8jSVNUI

 

[snipanchor]

Oh yes. Without a doubt they control it. They are in complete control in my opinion.

 

[Aspiring1]

**** no. God, some of you guys are such a bunch of pussies. They only have power over what you put in. The average girl has more options, but most of the options suck and the ones that don't are probably trying to nail her 3 hotter friends too.

I have to approach, which is a godsend, because it means I have the opportunity to take as many swings as I want. If I really wanted to spend a ton of time approaching a bazillion girls I could fill every night of the week with a different girl. This isn't due to me having game, it is just numbers. Once basic skills are learned, it comes down to effort. I've just began to learn this stuff and the rewards are already tangible.

A girl waits to be approached, which for some reason you guys seem to think happens all day every day. It doesn't. Guys are a bunch of pussies today and a huge amount are too scared to grab their balls and try to bed a girl. That is why this pickup artist culture exists. Guys today are dropping the ball. The changing role of women in society has certainly made dating suck more, at least for men after LTRs, but the change in guys is at least as bad as the one in women.

Of course girls have orbiters. They do provide some small ego benefits. The girls DON'T WANT THEM, though, so they aren't options. Who cares if they can nail an AFC whenever they want to, since we all know they don't want to? If you had 20 fat girls texting and calling you every day with veiled, cowardly half attempts at sleeping with you would it be a source of power? Would you expect the hot blond on your arm to be jealous?

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

**** no. God, some of you guys are such a bunch of pussies. They only have power over what you put in. The average girl has more options, but most of the options suck and the ones that don't are probably trying to nail her 3 hotter friends too.

I have to approach, which is a godsend, because it means I have the opportunity to take as many swings as I want. If I really wanted to spend a ton of time approaching a bazillion girls I could fill every night of the week with a different girl. This isn't due to me having game, it is just numbers. Once basic skills are learned, it comes down to effort. I've just began to learn this stuff and the rewards are already tangible.

A girl waits to be approached, which for some reason you guys seem to think happens all day every day. It doesn't. Guys are a bunch of pussies today and a huge amount are too scared to grab their balls and try to bed a girl. That is why this pickup artist culture exists. Guys today are dropping the ball. The changing role of women in society has certainly made dating suck more, at least for men after LTRs, but the change in guys is at least as bad as the one in women.

Of course girls have orbiters. They do provide some small ego benefits. The girls DON'T WANT THEM, though, so they aren't options. Who cares if they can nail an AFC whenever they want to, since we all know they don't want to? If you had 20 fat girls texting and calling you every day with veiled, cowardly half attempts at sleeping with you would it be a source of power? Would you expect the hot blond on your arm to be jealous?

Really? (see writing in bold)

Women get approached in.....*drum roll*

1) Cafes
2) On the street
3) In buses
4) On trains
5) In grocery stores
6) In restaurants (waitresses get hit on ALL the time)
7) At farmer's markets
8) In art exhibits
9) Film/music festivals
10) In school
11) At work
12) Through friends of friends
13) At parties
14) On the subway
15) In bars
16) In clubs
17) In co-ed sports leagues
18) In libraries
19) At the beach
20) In parks


Look, do I need to continue?

The idea that women get approached all the time is 100% true, as long as they are reasonably attractive.

You think that I made the list up? I have seen some of the approaches in the above list and I have also made some myself.

Reconsider your idea that women don't get approached that much.

 

[Megaman XIV]

Really? (see writing in bold)

Women get approached in.....*drum roll*

1) Cafes
2) On the street
3) In buses
4) On trains
5) In grocery stores
6) In restaurants (waitresses get hit on ALL the time)
7) At farmer's markets
8) In art exhibits
9) Film/music festivals
10) In school
11) At work
12) Through friends of friends
13) At parties
14) On the subway
15) In bars
16) In clubs
17) In co-ed sports leagues
18) In libraries
19) At the beach
20) In parks


Look, do I need to continue?

The idea that women get approached all the time is 100% true, as long as they are reasonably attractive.

You think that I made the list up? I have seen some of the approaches in the above list and I have also made some myself.

Reconsider your idea that women don't get approached that much.

Aspiring1 is delusional to think that women don't get approached. Do you know how many men buy PUA guides, read material on getting women, etc.? Yes, a whole hell of a lot. And they keep trying it! Men have to do something to attract women. Sitting there doesn't do anything. And the women have gotten so much control over this dating game it's unreal. Like judge nismo said, men can try, approach, make moves all day, but at the end of the day, the woman has to choose you.

Till, that list up there for where women get approached is very accurate. Seen it, done it. How could you forget strip clubs and malls?

 

[Burroughs]

By age 18 all the attractive mentally balanced women are *in a relationship*

If you want one at age 22,23, 28 or beyond you will have to be better than the man she is currently *with*

that is called hypergamy

 

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

**** no. God, some of you guys are such a bunch of pussies. They only have power over what you put in. The average girl has more options, but most of the options suck and the ones that don't are probably trying to nail her 3 hotter friends too.

I have to approach, which is a godsend, because it means I have the opportunity to take as many swings as I want. If I really wanted to spend a ton of time approaching a bazillion girls I could fill every night of the week with a different girl. This isn't due to me having game, it is just numbers. Once basic skills are learned, it comes down to effort. I've just began to learn this stuff and the rewards are already tangible.

A girl waits to be approached, which for some reason you guys seem to think happens all day every day. It doesn't. Guys are a bunch of pussies today and a huge amount are too scared to grab their balls and try to bed a girl. That is why this pickup artist culture exists. Guys today are dropping the ball. The changing role of women in society has certainly made dating suck more, at least for men after LTRs, but the change in guys is at least as bad as the one in women.

Of course girls have orbiters. They do provide some small ego benefits. The girls DON'T WANT THEM, though, so they aren't options. Who cares if they can nail an AFC whenever they want to, since we all know they don't want to? If you had 20 fat girls texting and calling you every day with veiled, cowardly half attempts at sleeping with you would it be a source of power? Would you expect the hot blond on your arm to be jealous?

the hardest part about approaching, doing the pursuing, chasing, asking out, initiating, is not being desperate, is not trying too hard, because if i really wanted to get a girlfriend, as in made getting a girlfriend my number 1 priority in my life right now, that will reek of desperation and girls will sense it, and obviously be turned off, if it was okay to make getting a girlfriend a priority, then i probably would not complain or be frustrated as much about having to do the approaching, asking out, initiating