how to stop being the nice guy in life?

l_e_g_e_n_d

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Personally I DO expect reciprocity on some level. I SHARE gifts with people who SHARE gifts with me. I loan money to people who will loan to me. I'll help people who will help me.

I cut off people that think it's a one way street. This is the way many of us operate, many of us don't like to continue giving into a black hole.
For you to accompany that person to begin with, it is implicitly understood that you are already receiving value of some kind. You wouldn't share your time with a hobo on the street, as there is no value to be extracted.

Accordingly, your sharing is simply giving value back to another who is already giving you value. Once the value you give is greater than the value you receive, then you start to feel taken.
RangerMike said:
It's more than making sure you get what you want up front. The nature of women is hypergamy... they are always looking for the next best man. Women are not attracted to men that are not better than they are. So if you are acting like a pleaser
Since the induction of the Manosphere, many parroted that hypergamy is the will of all women. This premise is incorrect.

Women are driven by what they need. Give a woman what she needs, irrespective of hypergamy, and she will be your love slave for life. Although getting the "better" deal often correlates with what a woman needs (to feel better about herself), there are myriad exceptions of women tying up with men who don't fall within the hypergamous spectrum as the man she connects with is simply meeting her needs.

If, for example, a woman needed to feel special (as she had a history of otherwise), your making millions does not service such need, unless you show her that you, the guy making millions, strongly feel that she is special. Notice, the "millions" is not the trigger, but rather the servicing of her need is.

Within this context of a woman who needed to feel special, "pandering" would not work as pandering is contrived, often lacking authenticity. Accordingly, how could a man who does not authentically think she is special properly service her need of feeling special? Rather the holy grail is servicing others' needs authentically.
 

Tenacity

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Women are driven by what they need. Give a woman what she needs, irrespective of hypergamy, and she will be your love slave for life.
I agree with you that women are driven by what they NEED, where I disagree is when you say they will be your "lover for life". Women's needs change like the god damn seasons over here in Michigan and similar to the weather here in Michigan, it's HARD to predict what you're going to get. Just when you think Winter is over and Spring is coming.......BAM..........here's a big a.ss snow storm!

If, for example, a woman needed to feel special (as she had a history of otherwise), your making millions does not service such need, unless you show her that you, the guy making millions, strongly feel that she is special. Notice, the "millions" is not the trigger, but rather the servicing of her need is.
When did we all become these "licensed" Psycho-Analysts and Psychologists to be able to sit around configuring what the fvck is going on in a chick's mind at any period/time of the day?

And why is there the assumption that women even know what the fvck they want?

Women are like the fat chick standing in front of you at the fast food restaurant. The bytch literally is AMAZED at the variety of "options" in front of her that when the Cashier asks her fat a.ss for her order, she always goes: "Uhhh, uhhh, uhhh....hmmmmm......uhhh maybe I want a number 4, but uhhh, hmmmm, number 7 looks good....uhhh hmmmm maybe I should try a number 2 with extra ranch?"

BYTCH will you pick a god damn combo!
 

Mike32ct

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My thoughts on the Nice Guy thing....

In Life:

Being nice is fine. What is important is making sure that your needs are met. You can be nice to people, but you still have to always "Take care of #1."

With Women:

Never put much stock in some woman telling you that you are "too nice" or a "nice guy but you're just a friend." In THAT context, it is almost always a LOOKS issue. She would never tell Chad that he's "too nice." It's secret code for, "You are a pleasant person that I would never bhang because I don't find you attractive." Work out. Get a cool haircut. Get new clothes. Looks-max, and then your "niceness" won't be much of a problem.

I'm not buying the argument that women somehow find a jerk more "honest and ethical" over some "manipulative nice guy" and go after the jerk for THAT reason. As if being honest and ethical (by itself) attracts women lol. Now, if one wants to argue that the jerk is more OPEN and DIRECT about what he wants, instead of a possibly more timid nice guy, ok fine.

The other argument (that hasn't been mentioned here but is common) that makes me cringe is the whole, "Women want a bad boy because they like a project or a man that they can try to change." To be fair, nice guys are "projects" too that could use some "tweaks" or "improvement." But she only wants to "change" the bad boy. Why is one "project" a higher priority to her than another? Looks.
 
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ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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btownbuck2012, I like your post. But there are certain problems with it. Allow me to explain (and by no means is this a criticism, just perhaps a way to enlighten):
A good man is altruistic whereas a nice guy is selfish. A nice guy is manipulative. His dealings with others are always laced with some type of agenda that suits his own selfish needs. He'll pursue a career or type of job for the money and title as opposed to the actual fulfillment he'll get from doing that type of work. He'll do things and act certain ways at work that solely revolve around his opportunity to advance, make more money and get a better title. The way he treats people, the value of his word and his integrity will mean nothing if it can't help him advance.
This is very true, a Man will do things genuinely, authentically. A nice guy (as RangerMike says) does things out of expectation for reciprocity and how he expects something in return. However, a Man is not necessarily altruistic. Replace that word with 'charismatic' or 'charming'. The difference? A Man will make you willingly obey him. A nice guy will make others do so out of the feeling of owing him something and will come to resent him for it.
Same thing with his group of 'friends'. Nice guys have LOTS of 'friends'. But how many of these people do they truly know? How many of these people will stand by and support the nice guy through the lowest lows of his life? How many 'friends' does he have that will drive half way across the country to seem him when he's going through a divorce or serious medical issue? How many of his 'friends' will shed a tear or cry for him?
And lastly, a good man can probably count on one hand the number of real friends he has. Real friendship takes a LONG, LONG time to develop. My Grandfather told me this. He was a world war 2 veteran who stormed the beaches of Normandy. His father died while he was oversees in the war and his mom died when he was just a boy. He went on to lead a successful life and always had a smile on his face. He was good with people and was usually very magnetic every time he entered the room. But he would always tell me that same thing about real friends being hard to find. I never could really understand that as he seemed to have so many friends but as I got older it made more sense to me. A-lot of people will use you for things; your connections, your money, your body, your influence at work, etc., and to the nice guy this is great because he is, again, only concerned about status. But for the good man, your closest friends will stick by you because of WHO you are, not WHAT you are.
A good man doesn't care about status in regards to women. He tries to f*ck women who he finds sexually stimulating because that is what feels good to him in mind body and soul. If these women have a bad attitude he drops them because sex is never worth putting up with abuse or bad behavior. The nice guy does NOT understand this as sex and companionship is the end all be all for him. In his mind, it's worth putting up with anything for.

Also, sex and the companionship of a woman doesn't define true meaning in the good mans' life. Nice guys don't ever figure this out because they never think for themselves. Any man who has enough experience with women and relationships naturally comes to the conclusion that happiness from either one of these two things or both is fleeting. Happiness from sex and the company of women is FLEETING. True contentment and fulfillment cannot be found in these things. But nice guys place so much importance on sex and the idea of "the one" that they don't have sex with enough women to ever come to this conclusion, therefore they are never able to fully connect the dots and women and relationships maintain themselves as being the holy grail for these guys. But again, a-lot of this mindset STARTS with the idea of status surrounding having a woman and sex as opposed to the actual pleasure. It's the image and idea of these things that trips up nice guys, whereas a good man has peaked behind the curtain and seen these things for what they really are, therefore he is only interested in the pleasure that comes from these things and NOT the status.
Most people are not true friends towards anyone. If you are, you end up getting disappointed, taken advantage of, or people take you for granted and come to expect you. People from older generations may have true friends, but the youth coming of age? No one is true anymore and we have been corrupted by society. Older folks cannot possibly understand what it means. A little bit of background from me so that you know that I am not just spewing garbage: I was born between the changing of generations, and even further so, I was put in school one year ahead. Not only that, but my father comes from the old-fashioned bourgeois family from a third world country (but has also been through some of the worst hardships you could you can possibly live on planet Earth) and my mother comes from suburban America from a working class family. They had us a little later than most folks have kids. In school, I was always with people who were older than me, but outside of school, I was with people of my own age group. It was very confusing for me to understand the differences in social etiquette, what the norms were, how to appropriately respond to certain things, etc. And because of their VERY differing backgrounds, my parents also had conflicting ways of teaching us how we should behave too and messed us all up when we were young (especially me and my older sis). I eventually figured everything out when I got older (and I also figured out some timeless social skills that will always work regardless of generation :)). I am very experienced with the different generations and classes of people.

From what I have realized is that true friendship is no longer there anymore. It existed when I was a little kid, but as times changed, I realized that people are pretty much just in it for themselves. The only reason why TRUE friendship was able to develop with the older generation is because they had less technology. Technology? What? Yes, technology. Social media, the upgrading from timely schedules to pagers to phones to smartphones; it sped everything up. Life moves by so much faster now than it ever did for the older generation, so much so that they anyone in their 50s cannot even COMPREHEND what I am saying. True friends no longer exist for the younger generation because life moves by too fast to enjoy the small stuff anymore that would ALLOW for true friendship to develop. It takes many of those small things to really develop into a true friend. And THAT is why, as you say, real friendship takes a LONG, LONG time to develop. This feeling of companionship is what many of us lack nowadays because we all have a desire to have a sense of love and belonging somewhere. That is one of the reasons why men nowadays place so much value on a woman. We all long for this TRUE companionship that is nowhere to be found anymore. Engaging in an LTR is one of those ways to be ABLE to develop true companionship which is why so many guys want girlfriends and place women on that 'holy grail' you said talked about.

I can't have more than 10,000 characters on here so I will continue this in my next post.
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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continued...
A good man will pursue work that stimulates him. There are good men who do pursue the cut throat corporate world because that is what stimulates them. To some guys, banging out 18-20 hour days on Wall Street is thoroughly exciting. The difference between them and the nice guy, however, is the good man could give a damn who knows that he's working on Wall Street. He's there because he wants to be there and enjoys the experience, that type of work and environment for himself. Conversely the good man has no problem scraping by and struggling to make ends meet if he's caught up and involved in the type of work he finds stimulating because, again, he's doing it for himself. He is fulfilled by it. The type of work he's doing gives him a sense of purpose and achievement with or without the big salaries and titles. When the good man gets promoted it's because he enjoys what he's doing. His work is challenging to him and he loves conquering each new challenge that presents itself. And in this way he's genuinely contributing to the greater good of society because he's doing this job the way it was meant to be done and with passion. There's no politics or undermining going on. There's no agenda here. There's no calculation being done about how this job, this promotion or this title will or won't affect his status. It's genuine, authentic and meaningful.
This is the biggest issue I found. You cannot be fulfilled if you are not at homeostasis. If you are 'struggling to make ends meet', then you are stressed out and are not fulfilling your physiological requirements (SEE: Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs). Not only that, but doing something you love doing will make it become bland after a while. There is a reason why people say to not make your hobby a job. With your hobby, you do whatever aspect of it you want to do when you want to do it. With a job, you have a specific quota to meet, you have to things in a set specific order and need to do so in a timely fashion. You stated "The type of work he's doing gives him a sense of purpose and achievement". This sense of achievement and purpose is called 'self-actualization'. You cannot self-actualize while struggling to survive, it is impossible. You can't skip a step in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

In order to self-actualize, you must have your physiological needs, safety needs, love & belonging needs, and self-esteem needs met. How do you meet all these needs? Firstly, you need money, and lots of it. This allows you to feed yourself, have a car for transportation, have a house in a decent neighborhood for shelter without fear of getting broken into, etc (physiological and safety needs). Next, you need to be able to socialize with others and feel accepted by them. Basically have some good friends. Not necessarily like that of a brotherhood but some people you can associate yourself with and possibly hang out with (love and belonging needs) say through a club or hobby of some sort. Self-esteem just comes from within. I am not 100% sure on this, but I believe you need to feel like you worked hard at something and got the reward of working hard at it too. Something to break a routine or to provide SOME kind of stress on your body (but not too much though). This could be as simple as lifting weights and competing in Tough Mudder competitions or something. After that, you have self-actualized.

In the beginning, I said that a Man is not necessarily altruistic. It is because you as a human cannot be altruistic until ALL of YOUR needs are met. When you have finally self-actualized, then you can achieve self-transcendence which is this altruism you talk about. But you cannot be TRULY altruistic UNTIL you have satisfied everything else beforehand. You still come first before others.
 

Tenacity

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With Women:

Never put much stock in some woman telling you that you are "too nice" or a "nice guy but you're just a friend."
I'm not buying the argument that women somehow find a jerk more "honest and ethical" over some "manipulative nice guy" and go after the jerk for THAT reason. As if being honest and ethical (by itself) attracts women lol.
The other argument (that hasn't been mentioned here but is common) that makes me cringe is the whole, "Women want a bad boy because they like a project or a man that they can try to change." To be fair, nice guys are "projects" too that could use some "tweaks" or "improvement." But she only wants to "change" the bad boy. Why is one "project" a higher priority to her than another? Looks.
Lol I keep trying to tell you guys the women are out of their damn mind. LEGEND keeps programming you guys to think that every issue you have with women is somehow YOUR fault:

- It's something you said
- It's something you didn't say
- You don't make $5 million per year
- You don't wear Armani suits
- You don't have a 10 inch dyck
- You walk funny
- (insert more bullshyt here)
- (insert more bullshyt here)
- (insert more bullshyt here)


80% - 90% of this shyt is NOT YOUR FAULT. The women are out of their god damn minds. They don't know what they want, they don't know what they need, they fvck "nice guys", "bad boys" "fvck boys", and god knows who else.

Stop taking women seriously. The Era Of The Traditional Good/High Quality Woman IS DEAD. This market of women is not designed to be taken seriously, that's why having a more CARE-FREE, "don't give a shyt" attitude works MUCH better with them than taking them seriously or seeing them as "soul-mates" or "unicorns" or "The One".
 

Bible_Belt

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how to stop being the nice guy in life?

It's not what you do - it's why you do it. The underlying problem with the nice guy is not that he is nice to people, it is that he has a need for approval. That is the issue you need to fix. Randomly being a d!ck to people is not going to fix your problems.
 

Mike32ct

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Randomly being a d!ck to people is not going to fix your problems.
Agreed. The risk associated with that approach is the "overcompensating nice guy" might end up being a dyck to someone who doesn't deserve it.

But I still think the "manipulative" thing is a little "over blown." Many nice guys are not INTENTIONALLY performing some evil plot to scam people or "trick" women into dropping the panties. He might genuinely be shy, timid, non-aggressive, laid back/passive, have low self-esteem, etc. Or being super nice to people might just be who he is.

I do agree with not seeking approval though.
 
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Red Legg

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I have always made progress with honey rather than vinegar,you can say "no" with a smile.....kind of freaks people out.
 
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