how to stop being the nice guy in life?

[PeasantPlayer]

Personally I DO expect reciprocity on some level. I SHARE gifts with people who SHARE gifts with me. I loan money to people who will loan to me. I'll help people who will help me.

I cut off people that think it's a one way street. This is the way many of us operate, many of us don't like to continue giving into a black hole.

You are missing the point of his post

 

[mrgoodstuff]

You are missing the point of his post

Well I think he's phvcking up in that he doesn't have repurcussions for poor behavior or people who are only taking from him. I don't think the solution is to become a total over all azzhole who only thinks about self. Some of us worry about the folks who worry about us and help them out who help us.

 

[RangerMIke]

Personally I DO expect reciprocity on some level. I SHARE gifts with people who SHARE gifts with me. I loan money to people who will loan to me. I'll help people who will help me.

I cut off people that think it's a one way street. This is the way many of us operate, many of us don't like to continue giving into a black hole.

I think deep down, everyone expects reciprocity. Even people who are religious and do what they think is morally correct, do so with the understanding of reward when they are dead.

But being a self-sacrificing 'nice guy' is NOT authentic, because they do NOT go directly after what they want. They are all nice and friendly, and then become butt hurt when the girl won't sleep with them, because they are acting like a 'friend'. Real men go after what they want, if you don;t act like this, you are not acting masculine, and feminine women will not be attracted to you. Oh sure.. they will 'like' you... who wouldn't like a pathetic butler that does whatever you want them to do? But you are not making her feel like a woman when you are around her, and so she will not be sexually attracted to you.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I think deep down, everyone expects reciprocity. Even people who are religious and do what they think is morally correct, do so with the understanding of reward when they are dead.

But being a self-sacrificing 'nice guy' is NOT authentic, because they do NOT go directly after what they want. They are all nice and friendly, and then become butt hurt when the girl won't sleep with them, because they are acting like a 'friend'. Real men go after what they want, if you don;t act like this, you are not acting masculine, and feminine women will not be attracted to you. Oh sure.. they will 'like' you... who wouldn't like a pathetic butler that does whatever you want them to do? But you are not making her feel like a woman when you are around her, and so she will not be sexually attracted to you.

Agree "butler" doesn't work. You shouldn't be doing all that niceness unless it's something you guys exchange up front. Like I have a lady who invites me to dinners and pays and I do the same for her. I don't need to necessarily bone her, we played around a little, and it's fine. She's been a good friend.

Other women expect men to do all the paying and effort and should be cut off. Doing all this effort up front without having her invest in you physically is stupid and 99% of the time does not work.

 

[zekko]

There's nothing wrong with being nice. But do not cast your pearls before swine.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

There's nothing wrong with being nice. But do not cast your pearls before swine.

Many time the women are the "swine"... Even extremely attractive ones. They are setup that way.

 

[Epicwinguy]

I got a thread relevant question:

How to stop being seen as a pushover by your own family?

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I got a thread relevant question:

How to stop being seen as a pushover by your own family?

If that's how they want to do you, just start saying "NO" to each one every single time. Maybe for 1-3 years. Then re-establish boundaries. This work does not occur overnight.

 

[RangerMIke]

Agree "butler" doesn't work. You shouldn't be doing all that niceness unless it's something you guys exchange up front. Like I have a lady who invites me to dinners and pays and I do the same for her. I don't need to necessarily bone her, we played around a little, and it's fine. She's been a good friend.

Other women expect men to do all the paying and effort and should be cut off. Doing all this effort up front without having her invest in you physically is stupid and 99% of the time does not work.

It's more than making sure you get what you want up front. The nature of women is hypergamy... they are always looking for the next best man. Women are not attracted to men that are not better than they are. So if you are acting like a pleaser
... or even an equal, she will be less likely to be attracted. I know they say they want men that treat them as equals... not true. They might like men that treat them like equals, but they WANT men that they think are better than they are. While you are kissing her @ss, she can not be attracted to you because her hypergamy sees you as inferior.

 

[Dingo]

No book will teach you as good or as fast as Life ****ing you over... and over...and over until you wise up to the ways of the world.

 

[wifehunter]

Get fukked over, a few times. It'll knock the nice guy right out of you.

 

[BeExcellent]

If you are being nice because you choose to that is authentic & attractive.

If you are being nice with an agenda...that's something people feel subconsciously...they are reading your agenda and it reflects poorly on you. It's insincere at its core which is off putting.

With family you have to be incredibly honest with yourself. If NOT meeting some family expectation gives you a sense of relief...you've put yourself first and honored your own needs & worth. You have to say no sometimes to honor yourself. Nobody else is going to honor you or respect you if you don't respect & honor yourself first. Lead by example.

 

[Milano]

It's more than making sure you get what you want up front. The nature of women is hypergamy... they are always looking for the next best man. Women are not attracted to men that are not better than they are. So if you are acting like a pleaser
... or even an equal, she will be less likely to be attracted. I know they say they want men that treat them as equals... not true. They might like men that treat them like equals, but they WANT men that they think are better than they are. While you are kissing her @ss, she can not be attracted to you because her hypergamy sees you as inferior.

I think Im a nice guy with an agenda AND by upbringing/nature.

This is why this woman I have s3xed a few times is unsure of me, she even told me she doesnt understand how she cant get feelings for me, but I do lol. She has higher status than me and I am TRYING to make her like me. It so hard to kill that beta fagg0t-pleaser inside. I just NEED to force this into my game or I will always seem like chump. So hard when you have parents brainwashing you into being this cute good boy, this takes years of unwiring!

 

[EmotionalGeek]

I think Im a nice guy with an agenda AND by upbringing/nature.

This is why this woman I have s3xed a few times is unsure of me, she even told me she doesnt understand how she cant get feelings for me, but I do lol. She has higher status than me and I am TRYING to make her like me. It so hard to kill that beta fagg0t-pleaser inside. I just NEED to force this into my game or I will always seem like chump. So hard when you have parents brainwashing you into being this cute good boy, this takes years of unwiring!

It's not parents. It's society as whole. At some point you think it is your own idea and start being too pleasing and complacent towards others. You get ****ed many times and start to question people behaviors.

 

[Tenacity]

What are your best tips to stop being the nice guy? not just with ladies but life in general

WTF is the nice guy?

 

[donnythedon]

Someone with the same authority at work could tell me to do something they could easily do and i say yes as i fear t

WTF is the nice guy?

 

[btownbuck2012]

I think what truly separates the men from the guys who simply stop being nice is that a Man will take his licks in life and learn the valuable lessons that come from that WHILE still maintaining and even furthermore developing his empathy, compassion and understanding for others as well as himself.

A good man is altruistic whereas a nice guy is selfish. A nice guy is manipulative. His dealings with others are always laced with some type of agenda that suits his own selfish needs. He'll pursue a career or type of job for the money and title as opposed to the actual fulfillment he'll get from doing that type of work. He'll do things and act certain ways at work that solely revolve around his opportunity to advance, make more money and get a better title. The way he treats people, the value of his word and his integrity will mean nothing if it can't help him advance.

He'll try to get a girlfriend so that he can appear and feel "normal" and get to throw out the boilerplate phrases and sayings at work and around friends like "gotta check with the boss", "oh crap I need to run, the old ball and chain will kill me if I'm late", "gotta keep the girlfriend happy", etc. Again, he's more concerned with looking and appearing normal than he is with finding a woman that intellectually and physically stimulates him. He's got a "girlfriend" like "everyone else" so he's "normal", right? RIGHT?!?!

Same thing with his group of 'friends'. Nice guys have LOTS of 'friends'. But how many of these people do they truly know? How many of these people will stand by and support the nice guy through the lowest lows of his life? How many 'friends' does he have that will drive half way across the country to seem him when he's going through a divorce or serious medical issue? How many of his 'friends' will shed a tear or cry for him?

The opposite of nice is not bad. It's not the jerk. The opposite of nice is strength. It's good. It's frame. It's being a good Man.

A good man will pursue work that stimulates him. There are good men who do pursue the cut throat corporate world because that is what stimulates them. To some guys, banging out 18-20 hour days on Wall Street is thoroughly exciting. The difference between them and the nice guy, however, is the good man could give a damn who knows that he's working on Wall Street. He's there because he wants to be there and enjoys the experience, that type of work and environment for himself. Conversely the good man has no problem scraping by and struggling to make ends meet if he's caught up and involved in the type of work he finds stimulating because, again, he's doing it for himself. He is fulfilled by it. The type of work he's doing gives him a sense of purpose and achievement with or without the big salaries and titles. When the good man gets promoted it's because he enjoys what he's doing. His work is challenging to him and he loves conquering each new challenge that presents itself. And in this way he's genuinely contributing to the greater good of society because he's doing this job the way it was meant to be done and with passion. There's no politics or undermining going on. There's no agenda here. There's no calculation being done about how this job, this promotion or this title will or won't affect his status. It's genuine, authentic and meaningful.

A good man doesn't care about status in regards to women. He tries to f*ck women who he finds sexually stimulating because that is what feels good to him in mind body and soul. If these women have a bad attitude he drops them because sex is never worth putting up with abuse or bad behavior. The nice guy does NOT understand this as sex and companionship is the end all be all for him. In his mind, it's worth putting up with anything for.

Also, sex and the companionship of a woman doesn't define true meaning in the good mans' life. Nice guys don't ever figure this out because they never think for themselves. Any man who has enough experience with women and relationships naturally comes to the conclusion that happiness from either one of these two things or both is fleeting. Happiness from sex and the company of women is FLEETING. True contentment and fulfillment cannot be found in these things. But nice guys place so much importance on sex and the idea of "the one" that they don't have sex with enough women to ever come to this conclusion, therefore they are never able to fully connect the dots and women and relationships maintain themselves as being the holy grail for these guys. But again, a-lot of this mindset STARTS with the idea of status surrounding having a woman and sex as opposed to the actual pleasure. It's the image and idea of these things that trips up nice guys, whereas a good man has peaked behind the curtain and seen these things for what they really are, therefore he is only interested in the pleasure that comes from these things and NOT the status.

And lastly, a good man can probably count on one hand the number of real friends he has. Real friendship takes a LONG, LONG time to develop. My Grandfather told me this. He was a world war 2 veteran who stormed the beaches of Normandy. His father died while he was oversees in the war and his mom died when he was just a boy. He went on to lead a successful life and always had a smile on his face. He was good with people and was usually very magnetic every time he entered the room. But he would always tell me that same thing about real friends being hard to find. I never could really understand that as he seemed to have so many friends but as I got older it made more sense to me. A-lot of people will use you for things; your connections, your money, your body, your influence at work, etc., and to the nice guy this is great because he is, again, only concerned about status. But for the good man, your closest friends will stick by you because of WHO you are, not WHAT you are.

But to my original point, the good man understands and appreciates all this while still maintaining that kindness and empathy for others. He's not bitter about the way things are, he simply accepts them as being reality. Women come and go. Money comes and goes. 'friends' come and go. Jobs and titles come and go, and throughout all of this the nice guy flaps precariously in the breeze. His self worth and respect is caught up in a tidal waive of ups and downs depending on his status at the current moment. Whereas the good man remains the same through life's ups and downs because he is grounded in the core principals of honor, integrity and respect; for himself and EVERYONE that comes across his past in life. Those are the things he can fully control in regards to how he lives his life and he knows they will ALWAYS be there.

 

[donnythedon]

I think what truly separates the men from the guys who simply stop being nice is that a Man will take his licks in life and learn the valuable lessons that come from that WHILE still maintaining and even furthermore developing his empathy, compassion and understanding for others as well as himself.

A good man is altruistic whereas a nice guy is selfish. A nice guy is manipulative. His dealings with others are always laced with some type of agenda that suits his own selfish needs. He'll pursue a career or type of job for the money and title as opposed to the actual fulfillment he'll get from doing that type of work. He'll do things and act certain ways at work that solely revolve around his opportunity to advance, make more money and get a better title. The way he treats people, the value of his word and his integrity will mean nothing if it can't help him advance.

He'll try to get a girlfriend so that he can appear and feel "normal" and get to throw out the boilerplate phrases and sayings at work and around friends like "gotta check with the boss", "oh crap I need to run, the old ball and chain will kill me if I'm late", "gotta keep the girlfriend happy", etc. Again, he's more concerned with looking and appearing normal than he is with finding a woman that intellectually and physically stimulates him. He's got a "girlfriend" like "everyone else" so he's "normal", right? RIGHT?!?!

Same thing with his group of 'friends'. Nice guys have LOTS of 'friends'. But how many of these people do they truly know? How many of these people will stand by and support the nice guy through the lowest lows of his life? How many 'friends' does he have that will drive half way across the country to seem him when he's going through a divorce or serious medical issue? How many of his 'friends' will shed a tear or cry for him?

The opposite of nice is not bad. It's not the jerk. The opposite of nice is strength. It's good. It's frame. It's being a good Man.

A good man will pursue work that stimulates him. There are good men who do pursue the cut throat corporate world because that is what stimulates them. To some guys, banging out 18-20 hour days on Wall Street is thoroughly exciting. The difference between them and the nice guy, however, is the good man could give a damn who knows that he's working on Wall Street. He's there because he wants to be there and enjoys the experience, that type of work and environment for himself. Conversely the good man has no problem scraping by and struggling to make ends meet if he's caught up and involved in the type of work he finds stimulating because, again, he's doing it for himself. He is fulfilled by it. The type of work he's doing gives him a sense of purpose and achievement with or without the big salaries and titles. When the good man gets promoted it's because he enjoys what he's doing. His work is challenging to him and he loves conquering each new challenge that presents itself. And in this way he's genuinely contributing to the greater good of society because he's doing this job the way it was meant to be done and with passion. There's no politics or undermining going on. There's no agenda here. There's no calculation being done about how this job, this promotion or this title will or won't affect his status. It's genuine, authentic and meaningful.

A good man doesn't care about status in regards to women. He tries to f*ck women who he finds sexually stimulating because that is what feels good to him in mind body and soul. If these women have a bad attitude he drops them because sex is never worth putting up with abuse or bad behavior. The nice guy does NOT understand this as sex and companionship is the end all be all for him. In his mind, it's worth putting up with anything for.

Also, sex and the companionship of a woman doesn't define true meaning in the good mans' life. Nice guys don't ever figure this out because they never think for themselves. Any man who has enough experience with women and relationships naturally comes to the conclusion that happiness from either one of these two things or both is fleeting. Happiness from sex and the company of women is FLEETING. True contentment and fulfillment cannot be found in these things. But nice guys place so much importance on sex and the idea of "the one" that they don't have sex with enough women to ever come to this conclusion, therefore they are never able to fully connect the dots and women and relationships maintain themselves as being the holy grail for these guys. But again, a-lot of this mindset STARTS with the idea of status surrounding having a woman and sex as opposed to the actual pleasure. It's the image and idea of these things that trips up nice guys, whereas a good man has peaked behind the curtain and seen these things for what they really are, therefore he is only interested in the pleasure that comes from these things and NOT the status.

And lastly, a good man can probably count on one hand the number of real friends he has. Real friendship takes a LONG, LONG time to develop. My Grandfather told me this. He was a world war 2 veteran who stormed the beaches of Normandy. His father died while he was oversees in the war and his mom died when he was just a boy. He went on to lead a successful life and always had a smile on his face. He was good with people and was usually very magnetic every time he entered the room. But he would always tell me that same thing about real friends being hard to find. I never could really understand that as he seemed to have so many friends but as I got older it made more sense to me. A-lot of people will use you for things; your connections, your money, your body, your influence at work, etc., and to the nice guy this is great because he is, again, only concerned about status. But for the good man, your closest friends will stick by you because of WHO you are, not WHAT you are.

But to my original point, the good man understands and appreciates all this while still maintaining that kindness and empathy for others. He's not bitter about the way things are, he simply accepts them as being reality. Women come and go. Money comes and goes. 'friends' come and go. Jobs and titles come and go, and throughout all of this the nice guy flaps precariously in the breeze. His self worth and respect is caught up in a tidal waive of ups and downs depending on his status at the current moment. Whereas the good man remains the same through life's ups and downs because he is grounded in the core principals of honor, integrity and respect; for himself and EVERYONE that comes across his past in life. Those are the things he can fully control in regards to how he lives his life and he knows they will ALWAYS be there.

Great reply, thanks

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Ok OP, so you pretty much know HOW to stop being a nice guy. Now here is WHY:
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/the-secret-of-the-jerk.17008/

It is a super long read, but it is well-written and provides some amazing enlightenment that blew my mind when I first started reading some of it.

 

[BeExcellent]

@btownbuck2012 gotta say...incredible truth in your post sir. One of the best posts I've read ever on SS.