how to communicate you are the prize?

[Hamurabimbi]

Agreed 100%. But women pursuing is not the natural order of things. If a guy expects a woman to pursue/chase/initiate/otherwise assume the male's natural role as leader, don't come crying when the guy realizes he's picked a masculine ball buster bossy b itch. This dynamic is how lazy men end up p ussy whipped by mediocre women & stuck in an unsatisfying relationship.

Because the man was too lazy to go choose woman he found hot & make the effort with her, so these guys take the feminine female role & wait for women to be the man in the interaction. Then they wonder why they are unhappy. I dunno. You chose the chick role rather than the dude role. It's backwards and doesn't feel right over time.

This is a gross and wrong caricature of women who take the initiative. Probably a third of my encounters with women have been them initiating. By no means are they ball-busters. It isn’t ‘lazy’ either. They are just quick.

But I know what you mean. For example. My first post-divorce ‘official’ date. I was at a client site. One of the girls & I were flirting
pretty hard. I knew she was going to ask me out. I wanted to be the initiator. So I asked her.

Many women are forward. I don’t think it has anything to do with femininity. They are just horny.

 

[BeExcellent]

Don't insert straw man logic here @Divorced w 3.

Sperm is cheap from the stand point that males can always make more. But none of your kids would exist without the mother. Eggs are required for offspring and the whole process has rate limiting factors that surround the female.

Eggs are expensive from the standpoint of not only that in mammals are females born with all the eggs she will ever have, it also takes TIME to be pregnant and bear the baby and the birth might be fatal to both the mother and the baby.

Ever been to the Taj Majal? Its a monument to a royal woman who died in childbirth.

Know why elephants are becoming extinct? Because it takes over 2 years of pregnancy for a baby elephant to be born. Poaching and other pressures are wiping out the population faster than the remaining population can replenish itself.

While that mother elephant is pregnant she cannot get pregnant again, she's out of the mating pool, and once she gives birth she cannot concieve while she nurses the baby.

Rabbits are not going extinct any time soon because rabbits have a much shorter pregnancy period, have litters of many offspring and can breed again quickly. Humans, elephants and whales (for example) cannot reproduce that quickly. Eggs are, in fact, very expensive.

Wooly mammoths died out due to human hunting them to extiction faster than the population could recover. Sperm whales face the same fate today and are severely endangered due to this birth rate dilemma.

Sure men can impregnate many women (if you are say Genghis Khan) but very few individual males in all of human history have had that ability (and this is also why a substantial number of people today carry genetic material that can be traced back to Khan, who raped his way across the known world during his conquests.).....

So I wouldn't consider that a viable reproductive strategy for the members of SS, lol.

My assertion is based in biological science and population genetics, not psychobabble.

 

[BeExcellent]

And sure, women get horny.....but not with a raging hard on that needs to be dealt with or else blue balls (which I understand is actually painful.) Female libido isn't physiologically that way.

Female libido is driven by mental stimulation. Any accomplished seducer knows this. And as a mental exercise you must engage & participate.

And I'd also suggest that women who are forward and overtly horny out in the wild are the ones who have given up in a sense and don't have the value to command the attention for a relationship with a desirable man.....so they offer up sex as a carrot to get what they can.

Your HB9s and 10s do not need to do this (be forward with men) as they have too much abundance & everyman wants them.

How attractive are the women who have adopted a "go get him" mating strategy? My observation is those women are NOT top tier attractive, but I'm genuinely curious.

Being the "Prize" is always about the relative value of the individual among the masses.

Anything you do to increase your value, therefore, helps you.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

And sure, women get horny.....but not with a raging hard on that needs to be dealt with or else blue balls (which I understand is actually painful.) Female libido isn't physiologically that way.

Female libido is driven by mental stimulation. Any accomplished seducer knows this. And as a mental exercise you must engage & participate.

How does this explain women who want to have sex right off the bat? No seduction or any mental stimulation required. This happens.

And I'd also suggest that women who are forward and overtly horny out in the wild are the ones who have given up in a sense and don't have the value to command the attention for a relationship with a desirable man.....so they offer up sex as a carrot to get what they can.

This ascribes too much forethought and logic to behavior. In the heat of the moment, people often act on impulse and non-logical desires.

Your HB9s and 10s do not need to do this (be forward with men) as they have too much abundance & everyman wants them.

How attractive are the women who have adopted a "go get him" mating strategy? My observation is those women are NOT top tier attractive, but I'm genuinely curious.

It runs the gamut.

Being the "Prize" is always about the relative value of the individual among the masses.

Anything you do to increase your value, therefore, helps you.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Don't insert straw man logic here @Divorced w 3.

Sperm is cheap from the stand point that males can always make more. But none of your kids would exist without the mother. Eggs are required for offspring and the whole process has rate limiting factors that surround the female.

Eggs are expensive from the standpoint of not only that in mammals are females born with all the eggs she will ever have, it also takes TIME to be pregnant and bear the baby and the birth might be fatal to both the mother and the baby.

Ever been to the Taj Majal? Its a monument to a royal woman who died in childbirth.

Know why elephants are becoming extinct? Because it takes over 2 years of pregnancy for a baby elephant to be born. Poaching and other pressures are wiping out the population faster than the remaining population can replenish itself.

While that mother elephant is pregnant she cannot get pregnant again, she's out of the mating pool, and once she gives birth she cannot concieve while she nurses the baby.

Rabbits are not going extinct any time soon because rabbits have a much shorter pregnancy period, have litters of many offspring and can breed again quickly. Humans, elephants and whales (for example) cannot reproduce that quickly. Eggs are, in fact, very expensive.

Wooly mammoths died out due to human hunting them to extiction faster than the population could recover. Sperm whales face the same fate today and are severely endangered due to this birth rate dilemma.

Sure men can impregnate many women (if you are say Genghis Khan) but very few individual males in all of human history have had that ability (and this is also why a substantial number of people today carry genetic material that can be traced back to Khan, who raped his way across the known world during his conquests.).....

So I wouldn't consider that a viable reproductive strategy for the members of SS, lol.

My assertion is based in biological science and population genetics, not psychobabble.

First of all, I’m using logic, which is what men use. Your original position had more holes than an Anna Nicole Smith blow up doll so now you’ve appealed to emotion which is quite feminine of you to have done.

Let’s start by getting out of the way that the only Oscar awarded in the Barbie movie went to Ryan Gosling.

Nothing of any significance has been done since the beginning of time on this planet by anyone other than men.

If you’re arguing that women’s value is equal to men because without women, the species wouldn’t be able to continue, and that women raise a home and nurture the next generation, than fine, no argument - but you can’t point to anything in your argument that supports the value of women other than that. Yes, women spread their legs and we are eternally appreciative and indebted to that.

As for the Taj Mahal - One of the seven wonders, according to you was erected because so many women die in the course of reproduction. Clearly, in your line of thinking, the abundance of exceptional male sperm is required and therefore superior in order to ensure not just the survival but the ability of the species to thrive.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

And sure, women get horny.....but not with a raging hard on that needs to be dealt with or else

You haven't been edged by an expert, I see.

Sperm is cheap from the stand point that males can always make more. But none of your kids would exist without the mother. Eggs are required for offspring and the whole process has rate limiting factors that surround the female.

Expensive / cheap is relative. Sperm from a desirable man is more valuable than the egg from an undesirable woman. And a woman with valuable eggs will look for a man with valuable sperm with the desired DNA, as is her biological imperative, but at the same time women tend to be more driven by emotions which can easily be manipulated.

[Comparing humans with] elephants / Rabbits / whales / Wooly mammoths / Sperm whales

Meanwhile, fruit flies like a banana, and all comparisons of humans vs 'other mammals' is faulty in the sense that we're more like a plague of locusts on this planet, which desperately tries to kill us, but we're just too successful in procreation.

Female libido is driven by mental stimulation. Any accomplished seducer knows this. And as a mental exercise you must engage & participate.

You're right, but there are many ways to penetrate a woman's mind. And women have been known to bedding the wrong men repeatedly because they prioritise the wrong traits.

And I'd also suggest that women who are forward and overtly horny out in the wild are the ones who have given up in a sense and don't have the value to command the attention for a relationship with a desirable man.....so they offer up sex as a carrot to get what they can.

That's why it's good fun to be indifferent to their 'access to sex' and get them to qualify 'other benefits' of dating them.

 

[BeExcellent]

First of all, I’m using logic, which is what men use. Your original position had more holes than an Anna Nicole Smith blow up doll so now you’ve appealed to emotion which is quite feminine of you to have done.

Let’s start by getting out of the way that the only Oscar awarded in the Barbie movie went to Ryan Gosling.

Nothing of any significance has been done since the beginning of time on this planet by anyone other than men.

If you’re arguing that women’s value is equal to men because without women, the species wouldn’t be able to continue, and that women raise a home and nurture the next generation, than fine, no argument - but you can’t point to anything in your argument that supports the value of women other than that. Yes, women spread their legs and we are eternally appreciative and indebted to that.

As for the Taj Mahal - One of the seven wonders, according to you was erected because so many women die in the course of reproduction. Clearly, in your line of thinking, the abundance of exceptional male sperm is required and therefore superior in order to ensure not just the survival but the ability of the species to thrive.

Actually you are all over the place emotionally, but that's fine. You are the one being inciteful throwing name drop drama into this conversation with your references to Tonya Harding and Anna Nicole Smith and acting as though such comments are somehow germaine. They aren't. Quit being a drama king. Seriously.

Please explain to me exactly how many children you would have without a woman to be pregnant with them & give birth to them.

Zero.

It is pointless to debate the well known dangers of human pregnancy and childbirth. They are irrefutable facts and have been throughout human history. Not even the advances of modern medicine have resolved that aspect of the human condition. So adding that content to your emotional musings makes you look silly at best and not that bright at worst, I'd edit that comment to preserve the appearance of logical discourse if I were you, but I'd never make such an illogical statement. It's the way it is. Just be happy that you are male and don't have to carry that responsibility or take that risk.

And be glad your mother did it for you, and that your children's mother did it for them.

Also. Please point out one man on this Earth who wasn't borne out of a woman's body. Again I'll wait.

Zero again.

As far as accomplished women there have been many. Three who I find very interesting are below:

Cleopatra
Madame Curie
Margaret Thatcher

Google has lots of information about them each in case you don't know who they are and what they accomplished.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Ever been to the Taj Majal? Its a monument to a royal woman who died in childbirth.

As for the Taj Mahal - One of the seven wonders, according to you was erected because so many women die in the course of reproduction. Clearly, in your line of thinking, the abundance of exceptional male sperm is required and therefore superior in order to ensure not just the survival but the ability of the species to thrive.

Mumtaz Mahal died in 1631 in Burhanpur, Deccan (present-day Madhya Pradesh) during the birth of her 14th child, a daughter named Gauhar Ara Begum. Shah Jahan had the Taj Mahal built as a tomb for her, which is considered to be a monument of undying love.

The Taj Mahal is a tomb to Shah Jahan's favourite royal breeding mare (In their nineteen years of marriage, Mumtaz bore Shah Jahan fourteen children (eight sons and six daughters), seven of whom died at birth or at a very young age). Shah Jahan had two other wives, who sired him only one child each. So @BeExcellent is absolutely right, a fertile woman who poops out one baby after another is certainly more prized than one who sits on her eggs without producing offspring.

 

[BaronOfHair]

As far as accomplished women there have been many. Three who I find very interesting are below:

Cleopatra
Madame Curie
Margaret Thatcher

Google has lots of information about them each in case you don't know who they are and what they accomplished.

To say nothing of Elizabeth Bathory, Ilsa Koch, and Miyuki Ishikawa

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

@Divorced w 3
The more you attempt to take personal swipes, the more foolish you come off. It betrays that you believe your logical argument is weak.

It doesn't make sense to downplay a woman's role in society. There is a reason an invading tribe would usually kill all the men and take all the women for themselves, and it's the same reason women are protected from war and other brutish atrocities the world over.

It's easy to believe women are inferior, and on average in certain fields that require strength or endurance they are. But because they can do things men can't, birth being the big one (where men are obviously inferior), women are simply different, complimentary, just as men are complimentary to women. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

@PlatoPacks23
Both people in a relationship can believe they are the prize, and both can show each other the respect and admiration that comes with being prized. Believing strongly in your self worth is only the first step (which is perhaps the common knee-jerk interpretation). Can you also be humble? Grateful? Empathetic? Can you extend your king frame to envelope another? How does a good king rule?

Too often people become pretentious and presumptuous, yet there are complimentary types even to these qualities. It may be a dysfunctional relationship, but it can persist for a lifetime...

Simply telling yourself 'I am the prize' is putting the cart before the horse. It may work in the short-term, but it's a hollow gesture. Let it inspire you, but never forget the hard work you must constantly be putting in to be high value.

 

[Divorced w 3]

The Taj Mahal is a tomb to Shah Jahan's favourite royal breeding mare (In their nineteen years of marriage, Mumtaz bore Shah Jahan fourteen children (eight sons and six daughters), seven of whom died at birth or at a very young age). Shah Jahan had two other wives, who sired him only one child each. So @BeExcellent is absolutely right, a fertile woman who poops out one baby after another is certainly more prized than one who sits on her eggs without producing offspring.

Right, except that she didn’t make any of the points you did. She didn’t understand the significance of the Taj Mahal other than that fact that, ironically, men devised it - and she didn’t understand that economics is more than simply the supposed scarcity of eggs relative to sperm, exhibiting her lack of understanding of both economics and logic in a single sentence. I certainly was not going to exemplify the achievements of women for her, that was for her to do which she failed at and had multiple men in this thread defend not just her position but herself personally. My logic and strategy here speak for itself, I feel bad as to how this is going, I generally like her and am going to stop.

 

[saige]

If a guy expects a woman to pursue/chase/initiate/otherwise assume the male's natural role as leader, don't come crying when the guy realizes he's picked a masculine ball buster bossy b itch.

100%, whenever I “chase” a guy I always feel so weird about it. This happened a while ago with someone I consider “out of my league” not physically but mentally—I perceived him as way smarter, cooler, & better than me and “the prize.” In the beginning, he pursued me and that felt natural, I was receptive. But when I began pursuing him, it felt so wrong, like I was the masculine initiator trying to get his attention. It felt primarily icky, just not right. But at the same time, it felt like it was the only choice to do, because I was so desperate for his energy and attention.

But this is the funny thing, over the past year as I’ve grown tremendously mentally, spiritually, emotionally, and health wise, I don’t feel the need to “chase” anymore. I also now think that women who regard themselves with value and think they’re a valuable asset to a man (key: not delusional to what their value actually is) will never be the initiator, the pursuer. If they are, they probably have some self-esteem issues they need to work through, like I once did. It comes from a place of lack of confidence.


@BeExcellent I agree about egg being more valuable biologically speaking. But also at the same time, like you mentioned previously, men who are leaders and at the top of the mate “competition” so to speak get the pick of their choice of all women their same caliber . So it’s not who’s the prize, men or women, that’s highly on how they are willing to invest to improve themselves.

 

[Divorced w 3]

@Divorced w 3
The more you attempt to take personal swipes, the more foolish you come off. It betrays that you believe your logical argument is weak.

It doesn't make sense to downplay a woman's role in society. There is a reason an invading tribe would usually kill all the men and take all the women for themselves, and it's the same reason women are protected from war and other brutish atrocities the world over.

It's easy to believe women are inferior, and on average in certain fields that require strength or endurance they are. But because they can do things men can't, birth being the big one (where men are obviously inferior), women are simply different, complimentary, just as men are complimentary to women. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

@PlatoPacks23
Both people in a relationship can believe they are the prize, and both can show each other the respect and admiration that comes with being prized. Believing strongly in your self worth is only the first step (which is perhaps the common knee-jerk interpretation). Can you also be humble? Grateful? Empathetic? Can you extend your king frame to envelope another? How does a good king rule?

Too often people become pretentious and presumptuous, yet there are complimentary types even to these qualities. It may be a dysfunctional relationship, but it can persist for a lifetime...

Simply telling yourself 'I am the prize' is putting the cart before the horse. It may work in the short-term, but it's a hollow gesture. Let it inspire you, but never forget the hard work you must constantly be putting in to be high value.

I have nothing to say to you.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

100%, whenever I “chase” a guy I always feel so weird about it. This happened a while ago with someone I consider “out of my league” not physically but mentally—I perceived him as way smarter, cooler, & better than me and “the prize.” In the beginning, he pursued me and that felt natural, I was receptive. But when I began pursuing him, it felt so wrong, like I was the masculine initiator trying to get his attention. It felt primarily icky, just not right. But at the same time, it felt like it was the only choice to do, because I was so desperate for his energy and attention.

But this is the funny thing, over the past year as I’ve grown tremendously mentally, spiritually, emotionally, and health wise, I don’t feel the need to “chase” anymore. I also now think that women who regard themselves with value and think they’re a valuable asset to a man (key: not delusional to what their value actually is) will never be the initiator, the pursuer. If they are, they probably have some self-esteem issues they need to work through, like I once did. It comes from a place of lack of confidence.

I have been the actor and the one acted upon. I do not regret either. Had I recoiled from the times women were the initiators, I would have missed out on some great times (including losing my V-card). Likewise, had I been lazy and never initiated, I would have missed out on many great events (including my most legendary office romance). Be open to either.

 

[jhonny9546]

That has been how feminine women show interest forever.

Nowadays an interested women would watch your instagram stories.
This means she keep you in her categories or She wait for you to make a move.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Jordan Peterson? Lobsters with posture? Okay.

Peterson just wants men to be useful tools of religious conservatives. I went to one of his lectures on wisdom from the Old Testament it was hilarious

What was hilarious about it? Not trying to argue, just legitimately curious: My own thoughts on Peterson's work are varied and conflicted. Bringing this back around to the topic at hand...

Peterson's observations here

at 0:00-1:28 are especially pertinent. Entirely too many of us today yearn for those whom we share the planet with to respect and value us, when we don't even respect ourselves most of the time. A fella won't be convincing anyone that he's the prize, when he looks like a living demerit

This has never not been a problem among modern men https://slate.com/human-interest/20...pping-up-in-tv-and-movies-like-greenberg.html (Note the date on that article), nonetheless we've been in the midst of a nadir, from '16-today

 

[BaronOfHair]

This is a gross and wrong caricature of women who take the initiative. Probably a third of my encounters with women have been them initiating. By no means are they ball-busters. It isn’t ‘lazy’ either. They are just quick.

But I know what you mean. For example. My first post-divorce ‘official’ date. I was at a client site. One of the girls & I were flirting
pretty hard. I knew she was going to ask me out. I wanted to be the initiator. So I asked her.

Many women are forward. I don’t think it has anything to do with femininity. They are just horny.

This(Women making moves on you, the man. People in general being nice to you) becomes more pronounced, when a guy goes out of his way to look the part

Yet the preponderance of men today who(Under the influence of MGTOW's loudest and most prominent proponents, I suspect)tenaciously cling to the delusion that they have a "right" to look and act like basement dwelling neckbeards , without incurring the disgust of not just women, but the rest of humanity, is remarkable

 

[Hamurabimbi]

This(Women making moves on you, the man. People in general being nice to you) becomes more pronounced, when a guy goes out of his way to look the part

Yet the preponderance of men today who(Under the influence of MGTOW's loudest and most prominent proponents, I suspect)tenaciously cling to the delusion that they have a "right" to look and act like basement dwelling neckbeards , without incurring the disgust of not just women, but the rest of humanity, is remarkable

A friend of mine struggles with dating. He is upset attractive guys do better. Yet he puts in the bare minimum to get himself attractive.

 

[BaronOfHair]

A friend of mine struggles with dating. He is upset attractive guys do better. Yet he puts in the bare minimum to get himself attractive.

He's more the rule than the exception these days, sadly.... As has been discussed elsewhere https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/looksmaxxing-goes-mainstream.282162/#post-3117651 https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/gent-z.282185/ much of what we've sneered at as LooksMaxxing from '16-the present was self-evident ("Treat yourself well... You just may find that the rest of the world warms up to you more readily also") to men in the far-from-ancient past

Whatever "systemic" problems men are facing today, it's increasingly tough to have more than an ounce of pity for a large portion of our brothers in arms, who really are real life versions of this schmuck

yet are steadfast in their refusal to devote more time to working on themselves, and less towards caterwauling over how f-cked up women and society are

The Manosphere bears a great deal of responsibility in all this, for encouraging men to be male equivalents to this https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/t...asy-Kate-Smurthwaite-reveals-armpit-hair.html , then attribute then attribute the state of stagnation we find ourselves in mostly to external events

No man can conceptualize himself as the prize, when he doesn't even look the part to begin with

 

[RangerMIke]

What was hilarious about it? Not trying to argue, just legitimately curious: My own thoughts on Peterson's work are varied and conflicted. Bringing this back around to the topic at hand...

Peterson's observations here

at 0:00-1:28 are especially pertinent. Entirely too many of us today yearn for those whom we share the planet with to respect and value us, when we don't even respect ourselves most of the time. A fella won't be convincing anyone that he's the prize, when he looks like a living demerit

This has never not been a problem among modern men https://slate.com/human-interest/20...pping-up-in-tv-and-movies-like-greenberg.html (Note the date on that article), nonetheless we've been in the midst of a nadir, from '16-today

This is a change in subject. You can not discuss what is in the Old Testament without running afoul of the forum's rules on the discussion of religion. So I will not do this. If one believes there are 'lessons' in the Old Testament which is based on Iron Age philosophy... in the space age... well.... okay. I find this amusing. This isn't an indictment on anyone's faith: it is simply my opinion.

As far as dressing up for events... I completely agree with Dr. Peterson. I always wear suits at business events... even though I am frequently the only one in a suit. I like suits, I have a lot of suits. I never leave the house unless I look my very best based on whatever I am doing. The only time I dress like a slob is when I'm working on my car or cleaning my home. I like opera... and I know it isn't for everyone, but when I go... I wear a tux, and any woman I am with, I expect her to dress up as well.... even though nowadays I see many showing up in jeans and t-shirts at opera. IMO you should always dress appropriate for anything you are doing while looking the best you can... it is a sign of class and respect for the people you are around.

It is a bit stunning for me seeing what people wear when going to the grocery store. I wear comfortable casual clothes, but I've seen some weird @ss sh1t just visit this website and you'll see what I am talking about: Home - People Of Walmart