how to communicate you are the prize?

[Divorced w 3]

Don't insert straw man logic here @Divorced w 3.

Sperm is cheap from the stand point that males can always make more. But none of your kids would exist without the mother. Eggs are required for offspring and the whole process has rate limiting factors that surround the female.

Eggs are expensive from the standpoint of not only that in mammals are females born with all the eggs she will ever have, it also takes TIME to be pregnant and bear the baby and the birth might be fatal to both the mother and the baby.

Ever been to the Taj Majal? Its a monument to a royal woman who died in childbirth.

Know why elephants are becoming extinct? Because it takes over 2 years of pregnancy for a baby elephant to be born. Poaching and other pressures are wiping out the population faster than the remaining population can replenish itself.

While that mother elephant is pregnant she cannot get pregnant again, she's out of the mating pool, and once she gives birth she cannot concieve while she nurses the baby.

Rabbits are not going extinct any time soon because rabbits have a much shorter pregnancy period, have litters of many offspring and can breed again quickly. Humans, elephants and whales (for example) cannot reproduce that quickly. Eggs are, in fact, very expensive.

Wooly mammoths died out due to human hunting them to extiction faster than the population could recover. Sperm whales face the same fate today and are severely endangered due to this birth rate dilemma.

Sure men can impregnate many women (if you are say Genghis Khan) but very few individual males in all of human history have had that ability (and this is also why a substantial number of people today carry genetic material that can be traced back to Khan, who raped his way across the known world during his conquests.).....

So I wouldn't consider that a viable reproductive strategy for the members of SS, lol.

My assertion is based in biological science and population genetics, not psychobabble.

First of all, I’m using logic, which is what men use. Your original position had more holes than an Anna Nicole Smith blow up doll so now you’ve appealed to emotion which is quite feminine of you to have done.

Let’s start by getting out of the way that the only Oscar awarded in the Barbie movie went to Ryan Gosling.

Nothing of any significance has been done since the beginning of time on this planet by anyone other than men.

If you’re arguing that women’s value is equal to men because without women, the species wouldn’t be able to continue, and that women raise a home and nurture the next generation, than fine, no argument - but you can’t point to anything in your argument that supports the value of women other than that. Yes, women spread their legs and we are eternally appreciative and indebted to that.

As for the Taj Mahal - One of the seven wonders, according to you was erected because so many women die in the course of reproduction. Clearly, in your line of thinking, the abundance of exceptional male sperm is required and therefore superior in order to ensure not just the survival but the ability of the species to thrive.

 

[BeExcellent]

First of all, I’m using logic, which is what men use. Your original position had more holes than an Anna Nicole Smith blow up doll so now you’ve appealed to emotion which is quite feminine of you to have done.

Let’s start by getting out of the way that the only Oscar awarded in the Barbie movie went to Ryan Gosling.

Nothing of any significance has been done since the beginning of time on this planet by anyone other than men.

If you’re arguing that women’s value is equal to men because without women, the species wouldn’t be able to continue, and that women raise a home and nurture the next generation, than fine, no argument - but you can’t point to anything in your argument that supports the value of women other than that. Yes, women spread their legs and we are eternally appreciative and indebted to that.

As for the Taj Mahal - One of the seven wonders, according to you was erected because so many women die in the course of reproduction. Clearly, in your line of thinking, the abundance of exceptional male sperm is required and therefore superior in order to ensure not just the survival but the ability of the species to thrive.

Actually you are all over the place emotionally, but that's fine. You are the one being inciteful throwing name drop drama into this conversation with your references to Tonya Harding and Anna Nicole Smith and acting as though such comments are somehow germaine. They aren't. Quit being a drama king. Seriously.

Please explain to me exactly how many children you would have without a woman to be pregnant with them & give birth to them.

Zero.

It is pointless to debate the well known dangers of human pregnancy and childbirth. They are irrefutable facts and have been throughout human history. Not even the advances of modern medicine have resolved that aspect of the human condition. So adding that content to your emotional musings makes you look silly at best and not that bright at worst, I'd edit that comment to preserve the appearance of logical discourse if I were you, but I'd never make such an illogical statement. It's the way it is. Just be happy that you are male and don't have to carry that responsibility or take that risk.

And be glad your mother did it for you, and that your children's mother did it for them.

Also. Please point out one man on this Earth who wasn't borne out of a woman's body. Again I'll wait.

Zero again.

As far as accomplished women there have been many. Three who I find very interesting are below:

Cleopatra
Madame Curie
Margaret Thatcher

Google has lots of information about them each in case you don't know who they are and what they accomplished.

 

[BaronOfHair]

As far as accomplished women there have been many. Three who I find very interesting are below:

Cleopatra
Madame Curie
Margaret Thatcher

Google has lots of information about them each in case you don't know who they are and what they accomplished.

To say nothing of Elizabeth Bathory, Ilsa Koch, and Miyuki Ishikawa

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

@Divorced w 3
The more you attempt to take personal swipes, the more foolish you come off. It betrays that you believe your logical argument is weak.

It doesn't make sense to downplay a woman's role in society. There is a reason an invading tribe would usually kill all the men and take all the women for themselves, and it's the same reason women are protected from war and other brutish atrocities the world over.

It's easy to believe women are inferior, and on average in certain fields that require strength or endurance they are. But because they can do things men can't, birth being the big one (where men are obviously inferior), women are simply different, complimentary, just as men are complimentary to women. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

@PlatoPacks23
Both people in a relationship can believe they are the prize, and both can show each other the respect and admiration that comes with being prized. Believing strongly in your self worth is only the first step (which is perhaps the common knee-jerk interpretation). Can you also be humble? Grateful? Empathetic? Can you extend your king frame to envelope another? How does a good king rule?

Too often people become pretentious and presumptuous, yet there are complimentary types even to these qualities. It may be a dysfunctional relationship, but it can persist for a lifetime...

Simply telling yourself 'I am the prize' is putting the cart before the horse. It may work in the short-term, but it's a hollow gesture. Let it inspire you, but never forget the hard work you must constantly be putting in to be high value.

 

[Divorced w 3]

The Taj Mahal is a tomb to Shah Jahan's favourite royal breeding mare (In their nineteen years of marriage, Mumtaz bore Shah Jahan fourteen children (eight sons and six daughters), seven of whom died at birth or at a very young age). Shah Jahan had two other wives, who sired him only one child each. So @BeExcellent is absolutely right, a fertile woman who poops out one baby after another is certainly more prized than one who sits on her eggs without producing offspring.

Right, except that she didn’t make any of the points you did. She didn’t understand the significance of the Taj Mahal other than that fact that, ironically, men devised it - and she didn’t understand that economics is more than simply the supposed scarcity of eggs relative to sperm, exhibiting her lack of understanding of both economics and logic in a single sentence. I certainly was not going to exemplify the achievements of women for her, that was for her to do which she failed at and had multiple men in this thread defend not just her position but herself personally. My logic and strategy here speak for itself, I feel bad as to how this is going, I generally like her and am going to stop.

 

[saige]

If a guy expects a woman to pursue/chase/initiate/otherwise assume the male's natural role as leader, don't come crying when the guy realizes he's picked a masculine ball buster bossy b itch.

100%, whenever I “chase” a guy I always feel so weird about it. This happened a while ago with someone I consider “out of my league” not physically but mentally—I perceived him as way smarter, cooler, & better than me and “the prize.” In the beginning, he pursued me and that felt natural, I was receptive. But when I began pursuing him, it felt so wrong, like I was the masculine initiator trying to get his attention. It felt primarily icky, just not right. But at the same time, it felt like it was the only choice to do, because I was so desperate for his energy and attention.

But this is the funny thing, over the past year as I’ve grown tremendously mentally, spiritually, emotionally, and health wise, I don’t feel the need to “chase” anymore. I also now think that women who regard themselves with value and think they’re a valuable asset to a man (key: not delusional to what their value actually is) will never be the initiator, the pursuer. If they are, they probably have some self-esteem issues they need to work through, like I once did. It comes from a place of lack of confidence.


@BeExcellent I agree about egg being more valuable biologically speaking. But also at the same time, like you mentioned previously, men who are leaders and at the top of the mate “competition” so to speak get the pick of their choice of all women their same caliber . So it’s not who’s the prize, men or women, that’s highly on how they are willing to invest to improve themselves.

 

[Divorced w 3]

@Divorced w 3
The more you attempt to take personal swipes, the more foolish you come off. It betrays that you believe your logical argument is weak.

It doesn't make sense to downplay a woman's role in society. There is a reason an invading tribe would usually kill all the men and take all the women for themselves, and it's the same reason women are protected from war and other brutish atrocities the world over.

It's easy to believe women are inferior, and on average in certain fields that require strength or endurance they are. But because they can do things men can't, birth being the big one (where men are obviously inferior), women are simply different, complimentary, just as men are complimentary to women. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

@PlatoPacks23
Both people in a relationship can believe they are the prize, and both can show each other the respect and admiration that comes with being prized. Believing strongly in your self worth is only the first step (which is perhaps the common knee-jerk interpretation). Can you also be humble? Grateful? Empathetic? Can you extend your king frame to envelope another? How does a good king rule?

Too often people become pretentious and presumptuous, yet there are complimentary types even to these qualities. It may be a dysfunctional relationship, but it can persist for a lifetime...

Simply telling yourself 'I am the prize' is putting the cart before the horse. It may work in the short-term, but it's a hollow gesture. Let it inspire you, but never forget the hard work you must constantly be putting in to be high value.

I have nothing to say to you.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

100%, whenever I “chase” a guy I always feel so weird about it. This happened a while ago with someone I consider “out of my league” not physically but mentally—I perceived him as way smarter, cooler, & better than me and “the prize.” In the beginning, he pursued me and that felt natural, I was receptive. But when I began pursuing him, it felt so wrong, like I was the masculine initiator trying to get his attention. It felt primarily icky, just not right. But at the same time, it felt like it was the only choice to do, because I was so desperate for his energy and attention.

But this is the funny thing, over the past year as I’ve grown tremendously mentally, spiritually, emotionally, and health wise, I don’t feel the need to “chase” anymore. I also now think that women who regard themselves with value and think they’re a valuable asset to a man (key: not delusional to what their value actually is) will never be the initiator, the pursuer. If they are, they probably have some self-esteem issues they need to work through, like I once did. It comes from a place of lack of confidence.

I have been the actor and the one acted upon. I do not regret either. Had I recoiled from the times women were the initiators, I would have missed out on some great times (including losing my V-card). Likewise, had I been lazy and never initiated, I would have missed out on many great events (including my most legendary office romance). Be open to either.

 

[jhonny9546]

That has been how feminine women show interest forever.

Nowadays an interested women would watch your instagram stories.
This means she keep you in her categories or She wait for you to make a move.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Jordan Peterson? Lobsters with posture? Okay.

Peterson just wants men to be useful tools of religious conservatives. I went to one of his lectures on wisdom from the Old Testament it was hilarious

What was hilarious about it? Not trying to argue, just legitimately curious: My own thoughts on Peterson's work are varied and conflicted. Bringing this back around to the topic at hand...

Peterson's observations here

at 0:00-1:28 are especially pertinent. Entirely too many of us today yearn for those whom we share the planet with to respect and value us, when we don't even respect ourselves most of the time. A fella won't be convincing anyone that he's the prize, when he looks like a living demerit

This has never not been a problem among modern men https://slate.com/human-interest/20...pping-up-in-tv-and-movies-like-greenberg.html (Note the date on that article), nonetheless we've been in the midst of a nadir, from '16-today

 

[BaronOfHair]

This is a gross and wrong caricature of women who take the initiative. Probably a third of my encounters with women have been them initiating. By no means are they ball-busters. It isn’t ‘lazy’ either. They are just quick.

But I know what you mean. For example. My first post-divorce ‘official’ date. I was at a client site. One of the girls & I were flirting
pretty hard. I knew she was going to ask me out. I wanted to be the initiator. So I asked her.

Many women are forward. I don’t think it has anything to do with femininity. They are just horny.

This(Women making moves on you, the man. People in general being nice to you) becomes more pronounced, when a guy goes out of his way to look the part

Yet the preponderance of men today who(Under the influence of MGTOW's loudest and most prominent proponents, I suspect)tenaciously cling to the delusion that they have a "right" to look and act like basement dwelling neckbeards , without incurring the disgust of not just women, but the rest of humanity, is remarkable

 

[Hamurabimbi]

This(Women making moves on you, the man. People in general being nice to you) becomes more pronounced, when a guy goes out of his way to look the part

Yet the preponderance of men today who(Under the influence of MGTOW's loudest and most prominent proponents, I suspect)tenaciously cling to the delusion that they have a "right" to look and act like basement dwelling neckbeards , without incurring the disgust of not just women, but the rest of humanity, is remarkable

A friend of mine struggles with dating. He is upset attractive guys do better. Yet he puts in the bare minimum to get himself attractive.

 

[BaronOfHair]

A friend of mine struggles with dating. He is upset attractive guys do better. Yet he puts in the bare minimum to get himself attractive.

He's more the rule than the exception these days, sadly.... As has been discussed elsewhere https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/looksmaxxing-goes-mainstream.282162/#post-3117651 https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/gent-z.282185/ much of what we've sneered at as LooksMaxxing from '16-the present was self-evident ("Treat yourself well... You just may find that the rest of the world warms up to you more readily also") to men in the far-from-ancient past

Whatever "systemic" problems men are facing today, it's increasingly tough to have more than an ounce of pity for a large portion of our brothers in arms, who really are real life versions of this schmuck

yet are steadfast in their refusal to devote more time to working on themselves, and less towards caterwauling over how f-cked up women and society are

The Manosphere bears a great deal of responsibility in all this, for encouraging men to be male equivalents to this https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/t...asy-Kate-Smurthwaite-reveals-armpit-hair.html , then attribute then attribute the state of stagnation we find ourselves in mostly to external events

No man can conceptualize himself as the prize, when he doesn't even look the part to begin with

 

[RangerMIke]

What was hilarious about it? Not trying to argue, just legitimately curious: My own thoughts on Peterson's work are varied and conflicted. Bringing this back around to the topic at hand...

Peterson's observations here

at 0:00-1:28 are especially pertinent. Entirely too many of us today yearn for those whom we share the planet with to respect and value us, when we don't even respect ourselves most of the time. A fella won't be convincing anyone that he's the prize, when he looks like a living demerit

This has never not been a problem among modern men https://slate.com/human-interest/20...pping-up-in-tv-and-movies-like-greenberg.html (Note the date on that article), nonetheless we've been in the midst of a nadir, from '16-today

This is a change in subject. You can not discuss what is in the Old Testament without running afoul of the forum's rules on the discussion of religion. So I will not do this. If one believes there are 'lessons' in the Old Testament which is based on Iron Age philosophy... in the space age... well.... okay. I find this amusing. This isn't an indictment on anyone's faith: it is simply my opinion.

As far as dressing up for events... I completely agree with Dr. Peterson. I always wear suits at business events... even though I am frequently the only one in a suit. I like suits, I have a lot of suits. I never leave the house unless I look my very best based on whatever I am doing. The only time I dress like a slob is when I'm working on my car or cleaning my home. I like opera... and I know it isn't for everyone, but when I go... I wear a tux, and any woman I am with, I expect her to dress up as well.... even though nowadays I see many showing up in jeans and t-shirts at opera. IMO you should always dress appropriate for anything you are doing while looking the best you can... it is a sign of class and respect for the people you are around.

It is a bit stunning for me seeing what people wear when going to the grocery store. I wear comfortable casual clothes, but I've seen some weird @ss sh1t just visit this website and you'll see what I am talking about: Home - People Of Walmart

 

[BaronOfHair]

As far as dressing up for events... I completely agree with Dr. Peterson. I always wear suits at business events... even though I am frequently the only one in a suit. I like suits, I have a lot of suits. I never leave the house unless I look my very best based on whatever I am doing. The only time I dress like a slob is when I'm working on my car or cleaning my home. I like opera... and I know it isn't for everyone, but when I go... I wear a tux, and any woman I am with, I expect her to dress up as well.... even though nowadays I see many showing up in jeans and t-shirts at opera. IMO you should always dress appropriate for anything you are doing while looking the best you can... it is a sign of class and respect for the people you are around.

It is a bit stunning for me seeing what people wear when going to the grocery store. I wear comfortable casual clothes, but I've seen some weird @ss sh1t just visit this website and you'll see what I am talking about: Home - People Of Walmart

Yeah... As we were discussing here https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...thing-better-comes-along.282363/#post-3121715 https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/looksmaxxing-goes-mainstream.282162/page-3#post-3122214 , no one's calling for everybody to start wearing Armani and Tom Ford to the grocery store... We'd all undoubtedly enjoy much more equanimity on a personal level and as a nation if we made the effort to look like inhabitants of an increasingly sophisticated civilization, rather than Dust Bowl dwellers during The 1930s. This becomes all the more inexplicable when one recognizes:


For all the problems which exist in our civilization, we live in a time wear access to finery has never been more plentiful. I've personally had salespeople at Nordstrom, Zara, Van Maur, and Bloomingdale's GIVE me clothes and cologne free. More than once. Yet for nearly a decade now, a substantial portion of folks in The Post-Industrial world have come to believe that it's "cool" to look impoverished

There is cause for cautious optimism, in that we've been through a cultural regression like this prior, and not all that long ago either https://www.rebelsmarket.com/blog/posts/grunge-fashion-where-did-it-come-from-and-why-is-it-back By time the last years of The 20th Century rolled around though, we were prioritizing a polished look once again, and this became readily apparent in the popular culture of the time

Chances are thus strong that we're going through a similar cycle yet again

 

[jhonny9546]

Work on yourself:

Be healthy with healthy habits.
Lift weights.
Get your career in gear.
Be a renaissance man, be curious, intriguing and funny.
Stand for something.
Dress well.
Learn to speak of things - you have to have the knowledge to back it all up.

I can firmly say I miss
Get your career in gear.
Stand for something

I cannot find those two things at my age

Oh yea for sure but that's why the smart women go for men within their immediate social circles or workplaces because it makes life easier

Attractive women have all types of men swooning over them from about 15+ ....the smart ones quickly figure out what men want and instantly disqualify ones who are desperate for it

Women are a lot better at selecting a partner than we give them credit for they often use criteria we are completely unaware of

Social security being a massive one

When I was a teenager working in a large local cafe there was a lot of young chicks working there too ....I was a bit naive and a virgin back then so I was quite wary of them none the less I was just myself and sure enough after a bit of time of us all getting used to each other the attraction and familiarity started to build

Often when we had work parties the girls would regularly sleep with guys working there it was just the done thing , the girls would also sometimes bring their freinds and again their freinds would usually end up doing stuff with the guys who worked at the cafe too

At the time it just seemed like your standard shenanigans but now at 30 I look back and realise just being in this sort of social work circle was a form of subtle pre selection

Strange I know but highlights the importance of familiarity and pre selection to women

This is what happen in any work field which put a man and a woman to see eachother everyday

 

[jhonny9546]

Oh yea for sure but that's why the smart women go for men within their immediate social circles or workplaces because it makes life easier

Attractive women have all types of men swooning over them from about 15+ ....the smart ones quickly figure out what men want and instantly disqualify ones who are desperate for it

Women are a lot better at selecting a partner than we give them credit for they often use criteria we are completely unaware of

Social security being a massive one

When I was a teenager working in a large local cafe there was a lot of young chicks working there too ....I was a bit naive and a virgin back then so I was quite wary of them none the less I was just myself and sure enough after a bit of time of us all getting used to each other the attraction and familiarity started to build

Often when we had work parties the girls would regularly sleep with guys working there it was just the done thing , the girls would also sometimes bring their freinds and again their freinds would usually end up doing stuff with the guys who worked at the cafe too

At the time it just seemed like your standard shenanigans but now at 30 I look back and realise just being in this sort of social work circle was a form of subtle pre selection

Strange I know but highlights the importance of familiarity and pre selection to women

This is what happen in any work field which put a man and a woman to see eachother everyday

 

[TheGambino]

Body language is big. How you carry yourself is very important, but you CAN NOT fake it. Stand up straight, good posture, shoulders back. Walk with confidence.... take big steps, always look in the direction you are going and never look at your feet. Make eye contact.... smile.

Be in good shape, which means you have to work out.

Wear clothes you like and that fit you and you are comfortable in without looking sloppy. If you are comfortable in suits, these are the best... but if you don't like wearing suits... don't do it because your body language will reflect your mood.

Never get drunk... it's okay to have a couple of drinks but alcohol makes you stupid.

Put away your FVCKING smart phone... seriously never take that sh1t out unless you are making a call... if someone texts you and you MUST look at it like a trained monkey... excuse yourself and do it isn't private. Your life is what is around you... not in your godd@mn phone.

Last but not least, never chase women. Offer dates, ask for phone numbers, make an effort but if she declines, forget her... men that keep trying and trying chasing one woman is pathetic. And it totally fvcks up your mindset.

what a quality post so glad we have you here @RangerMIke