How do you get rid of a BPD woman?

[STR8UP]

Wow, a lot of knowledge about these crazy ass women around here.....the problem must be pretty widespread.

There was only one chick that I dated who i would say had a serious psychological disorder. I didn't get involved with her enough (thankfully) to come up with a diagnosis, but this one was wacky.

Incidentally, my next g/f after her worked in a psych hospital. She met the crazy chick while we were dating and confirmed that this chick did indeed have psych issues.

We would be in the club and she would sort of pretend to be stumbling drunk and basically have me hold her up. Looking back I'm sure it was a sh!t test.

She would also fly off the handle when we were out, accusing me of checking out other women. It would really scramble her brain when I would talk to her the next day like everything was cool. She would get all confused and say, "But last night...we had a fight....now you're pretending like it didn't happen?" It was like she wanted me to tell her she was acting like a crazy b!tch. Weird.

I have a feeling that whatever disorder she suffered from, she had those issues where she sought out chaos. I didn't treat her like the piece of sh!t she wanted to be treated as, and she was gone pretty quickly. Good thing I was an AFC back in those days

 

[Celadus]

Thought this was anything else.

 

[KontrollerX]

"Lastly, a couple posters have taken the view that these women are mad not bad - I disagree and so does Scott Peck . Read his book " People of the Lie"... He is one of the few psychiatrists who has the nads to dump the "value free" science approach, He calls them EVIL and he is right.."

The mad Vs. bad debate has been raging on these people for well over 100 years.

After being victimized by one of these people unawares that such people existed a person in their normal frame of mind would obviously think that what happened to them was done by a normal girl who simply had evil intent.

There seems to be no other explanation at the time to a victim when that victim has just been victimized by one of these people and it does feel good to hate someone and label them evil who has done you harm with seemingly no good reason for them to do so.

Yet when you research these people you realize they can no more help being what they are than someone who was born without a leg or born without sight, etc.

This does not free them from accountability for their actions of course especially if their actions cause them to do something illegal however I do think their conditions prohibit them from being able to be truly evil as they do not understand what they are doing in the sense they don't understand the awful impact of their actions on a person.

Its true they may appear satisfied if they've hurt you but is that a look of truly hurting YOU or is it the look of hurting their parents that abandoned them THROUGH YOU?

You see it gets complex.

I suppose you can still be correct about them being evil but your idea of the concept must be drastically different from mine for as I see it true evil can only be committed by someone who has a full awareness of human empathy in themselves, true feelings and emotions and conscience and makes a conscious choice to disregard all of that for some reason and thus do something evil.

The cluster b's actions are mostly done from a point of ignorance of the full human experience ie empathy, emotions, true love, etc.

Would these same people do their horrible actions if their minds were normal like ours jophil?

Like with any of us normal people evil is possible so I'd say maybe but I think the answer would more likely be no.

I believe it was Socrates who said...

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."

So if you believe them to be evil at least consider that most of their evil is a result of their ignorance which is sadly mostly out of their control.

I will give this book a read though jophil with an open mind as it has interested me for quite some time I just never got around to buying it because Emotional Vampires by Al Bernstein and Hysteria by Christopher Bollas pretty much gave me the knowledge I felt I needed.

 

[Knight's Cross]

Road Demon, I ordered, "Breaking Free from Boomerang Love ", and ,"Stop Walking on Eggshells".
Alias, The Facing Facts website is AMAZING. Its like looking right into the soul of the person I was with for a year. I'm no counselor but I think I put together some of what went wrong in ex's life. Her mom has BPD by the way I have heard things described. Ex repeatedly told me that her mother NEVER apologizes for things...so like mom, like daughter. Sad really but it just reiterates that if you are looking at a woman for the long haul you need to do your homework. If there are family issues, they WILL become your issues if they were never dealt with.
Thanks all, I really appreciate the info. It's made the whole jigsaw puzzle come together.
KC

 

[drmeathead]

alot of you guys are sharing your experiences. keep doing this. many people who are in a relationship with a bdp partner have what is called a lightbulb experience. they are in the dark about bpd and their crazy relatiuonship and boom they put it all together. it is a great step towards healing the non-bpd person. i know i speak from experience.

 

[Road Demon]

All,
After visiting that support site and checking the resources, yes while my ex wasn't diagnosed, I'd swear on a stack of bibles...she met 8 of the 9 criterea for a clinical diagnosis of BPD.
I never saw her self mutilate, or witnessed that type behavior. What I did see was wreckless driving. She also used suicide threats to manipulate me. She had hypervigilance on some areas, and the one top of the list area that got me was her ability to deflect blame. She RARELY ever accepted responsibility. I saw several occasions where she would blame her outbursts on someone else. Once she blew up at me for something that was completely uncalled for. I told her that I didn't accept her behavior, and walked away. 2 days later she called and said," everyone should be calm now that she'd given it a couple days". That was her M.O. She would explode then think that time was the solution. I always felt that her apologies for anything were just hollow. There wasn't any warmth to them.
Her relationship with her family was weird too. In hindsight I wonder if the reason she didn't allow me into that world was a fear that I'd figure her game out even more. On 2 of the occasions we did spend time with them, I saw strained emotion at best. Once we left spending the day with them with ex angry. Another time while I had a conversation with her sister, the sister told me that if "ex" didn't get her way, everyone was going to feel the pain.
Thank you guys so much for showing me what I was in. OK now its my turn. BBelt I hope to heck that you are kidding about this girl. It sounds like you are. If its not, it sounds like the most unhealthy thing I can think of. Some of the best advice I've read so far in this thread was from:K-X,"

Hi Knights Cross,

Their are different subtypes of BPD...

Some are high functioning other are low functioning. BPDs can be very successful in a career...but have abysmal interpersonal relationships...in fact interpersonal relationships bring them great pleasure and pain. Like a child they take and need to be the center of attention...draining everyone around them, hence the term emotional vampires.

They both rage inwardly and out ward. They hate themselves and can't be alone, as they feel very empty. Many posters have suggested at the core of the issue is that they have 'no sense of self .' The reason why they are so amazing and perfect early on in the relationship is that they take on YOUR identity essentially merging your personality into theirs. Ahhh the 'Great Chameleon.'

Rarely are they stupid, in fact many are very intelligent. I really don't think are really aware of the magnitude to how they affect other people, often to level of being unware of what they do to others...they protect themselves with impulsive actions, denial, splitting (black/white thinking), projection, history re-writting, and self-attack thinking they are 'bad people.' Again, I beleive they are not fully aware the extent of their emotional damage that they cause.

It is recommended that most Clinicans only have 1 or 2 BPDs at any one time in their list of clients. They are very emotionally draining, esp. if firm boundaries are not set.

Mine sounded exactly like what your dealing with with 8/9 symtptoms, sans the reckless driving. My BPD did not cut herself either, but I got the pseudo-sucide threats and 'life-threatening.' health problems.

My BPD came from a drama filled family, a middle girl of 5 sisters, so she was neglected emotionally. She would be refered to as 'one of kind' by her family.

Mine also was not super sexual, as the other poster BPDs. It took me forever to get her into the bedroom as she believed that men only viewed her as sex object. The sex was fine, even if she was quite reserved IMHO in regards to her sexuality for a 30 year old.

As a very logical thinker, HER BPD behavior was consistently illogicial.

Schema therapy is the lastest therapy, more successful than DBT.

Jophil wrote:

"One of the most tragic of life's scenarios is a woman with active BPD being pursued by a smitten man who only wants to love her."

Yep, that was me. I don't wish the experience on on even my worst enemy.

You can't save them. I tried every technique I could find.

Try to heal from her emotional damage. Move on, find a 'normal girl.'

RD

 

[jophil28]

YOU[/b] or is it the look of hurting their parents that abandoned them THROUGH YOU?

>>>> Jophil replies . Huh ? Who cares about who she is really trying to hurt. That is acedemic pondering. The end RESULT is a woman who sets out to do damage for personal satisfaction and THAT is why they are evil because it is deliberate.


You see it gets complex.

>>>Jophil again -- NO it ain't complex at all . It is simply a matter of a nasty destructive woman snaring a man with excessive displays of feminine affection and sex and THEN when the hook is set in HIM she plays out the second part of her evil plan and that is to control, bewilder, obfuscate and humiliate him knowuing that he is invested . She embarks on a mission which consists of doing as much damage as she can to a guy who probably just wanted a relationship with her.


I suppose you can still be correct about them being evil but your idea of the concept must be drastically different from mine for as I see it true evil can only be committed by someone who has a full awareness of human empathy in themselves, true feelings and emotions and conscience and makes a conscious choice to disregard all of that for some reason and thus do something evil.

>>>> JOphil replies - you are letting them off lightly. THey DO know what they are doing and they understand the emotional consequences of their behavior and the destrucion that they cause - THAT is why they do it - for some feeling of power and emotional gain. They are not ignorant at all, they are hateful twisted souls who wreck and slash and burn compulsively BECAUSE they can.

They know exactly what they are doing and their appalling behavior is not some unfortunate outworking of some mysterious disease. HOw do I know ? I have been with one of these dark creatures and I speak from personal experience. In the first few months they are setting up the relationship to be nuked later (Part B) They are initially intentionally sweet and girly and soft and giving AS A PLOY, this is Part A. of their SOP and then Part B> is revealed.
Therefore they acting are with forethought .

Jophil...

 

[aliasguy]

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I understand your sentiments, here, Jophil, and I'm aware that many share them.

It's a complicated question. "Evil." Even the theologians haven't worked this one out definitively.

With BPD, the affected individual indeed wreaks havoc on the lives of friends, family, and those who they are in relationships with. And, yes, it DOES look like intentional, malicious, hostile behavior. And it IS inexcusable. They must be held accountable for what they do.


BUT.... can we call them "evil," or refuse to "understand" that they are TRULY messed up in a huge way? Remember, these people are reported to be in significant pain. Their lives are generally f*cked up in a big way, and they SURELY aren't "HAPPY," even when they "get" to hurt others. I really don't believe they ENJOY hurting those close to them. But, they DO it. Over and over again.


So, I guess I'm saying that we shouldn't HATE them for their behaviors. We should not ACCEPT, justify, or condone their craziness, but must we label them sociopathic or "evil"? They are clearly sick folks.


I think we should avoid them, shun them as necessary, warn others about their "state," and, in general, see them as deeply flawed, dangerous individuals, who can RUIN lives.


That's enough, isn't it, without asserting whether or not they "know what they're doing," or that they are alway fully aware of the damage they do.


I think it's more like a wild animal. If you mess around with the bears, eventually they will eat you. Does that make bears "evil"?

(All that said, I really really have bad feelings toward my ex STILL) (But I don't know if she's "evil"----sometimes I feel really sorry for her.)

It's really confusing, even once you figure out all about BPD. It's like another world.

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[drmeathead]

brothers,

bpd is really tough to deal with. i still havent recovered 100 percent after over a year away. i have a handle though and a pretty good perspective. i have gained much insight. if u guys want my sn to chat. private message me.

 

[drmeathead]

the problem is that you just dont see these women coming. you think you found a great girl. you think everything is going well at first. then the little fights happen. you give up ur boundaries little by little and ur self esteem is slowly undermined. you dont even realize it is going on to the extent it is. sure you havea friend or two say something but u think that is just typical friends being jealous that u are with ur gf. then slowly ur isolated as she masterfully plays u along. one day u sorta wake up and realize that ur ****ed but by then it is too late. she has eroded ur self esteem and islolated u that the fight just looks impossible.

personally i dont know how i would have gotten out if my brother didnt enroll at my school. he was my younger brother and i felt compelled to show him around and by doing so he was able to get a foothold on me and i realized that life existed totally different outside the world she created for me.


like i said anyone wants to chat pm and ill shoot u my sn

 

[KontrollerX]

"Yes they do understand the impact - and they enjoy the illusion of power that they feel by HURTING men. THis is the sociopath compnent revealed.."

Not the same as we would if we did the same to some girl that truly loved us Jo.

We know better.

These women don't.

They enjoy it to the same level that a child enjoys evading the blame of breaking an expensive vase by blaming their brother or sister and having the parents believe them.

Its a childlike mentality, an immature form of joy for immediately fulfilling a need regardless of its harmful consequences on others.

Also each relationship to these women is no more than a different dreamstate it is like they are very literally sleep walking through life according to psychoanalyst Christopher Bollas.

That is why they can easily switch from man to man throughout life without much guilt or remorse over the previous lover that they harmed and they walk away all happy like it never happened between the two of you.

After all it was only a dream to her and one for you and others that loved her very unfortunate that she woke up from but she's just following the course of her pathology in so doing.

The ways to keep her in the dream with a particular person are well known but even these techniques are not guaranteed to last as having no sense of self these women seek out what you and I can never be and that is someone new.

Someone new so they can assimilate that person's personality and become someone new for a little while themselves to re-invent themselves leaving you as their previous discarded personality that they no longer want to be a part of themselves.

As for sociopaths yes BPD and ASPD are both Cluster B personality disorders but a study has been conducted on whether BPD were just the female equivalent of male ASPD and it was found that they are not. They are seperate disorders ie a BPD is not a sociopath and a sociopath is not a BPD but they do share enough in common to be lumped in the Cluster B category together.

To give you an example of the difference I will say that a true sociopath will do whatever it takes, whatever they deem they can get away with to achieve a desired goal, they will go to any lengths imagineable to get what they want.

A BPD on the other hand will only go so far to achieve their goals. Despite the messed up state of mind they are in there is still a tiny shred of humanity left within them. They have a bit of conscience, empathy and love but all three are broken compared to ours.

You mentioned what BPD's do as a sociopathic component and since both sociopaths and BPD's create characters for their victims to fall powerfully in love with and then break it off hurting their victims deeply I suppose this could be construed to say that they do have a sociopathic component to them but I want to make it very clear to the forum goers here that this in itself does not make these women sociopaths for the same thing that makes a BPD a BPD makes a sociopath a sociopath and that is having a Cluster of symptoms that meet the requirements of each disorder.

As for the Scott Peck book I will still be buying that but reading around about it in the reviews on Amazon and Wikipedia I am not encouraged. This man was a Christian and has a whole section on exorcism within the book that a reader said wasn't supported by exhaustive research. When I read that review and others the word "kook" came to mind but still I will give him a read and see if he provides any powerful insight to make his case.

 

[jophil28]

That was quite insightful, Kontrolla.

Scott Peck is no KOOK -("The Road Less Traveled " ). The critical opinion of some anonymous reader is irrelevant.
Peck is one of the few "thinking " therapists and authors ( Nat Brandon is another as is Harvel Hendrix) These men are courageous and forthright . Quite a change from the lame leftwing limp
d!cks and wannabe Eastern Mystics who usually author the self help crap on the shelves at B&N .( and I include Tolle in this sorry bunch)

To sum up the "Mad vs Bad" debate. Probably these BPDs are a mixture of both,... however, to sum up, " Evil is as Evil does."

 

[Last Man Standing]

There is no such thing as BPD - bullshyt term to diagnose irresponsibility, bad attitude, and horish behavior - the hor matrix!!!

Listen to the old man, Jophil!!!

 

[jonwon]

There is no such thing as BPD - bullshyt term to diagnose irresponsibility, bad attitude, and horish behavior - the hor matrix!!!

Listen to the old man, Jophil!!!

When i think about it, this makes alot of sense, yes i have had my fair share of BPD women.

Still the term has applications to describe a set of ****t* actions from women.

I think it would be an interesting topic for someone to really think about what you wrote and post a reason for why BPD does not exist and where just excusing womens bad behaviour.

*edit
Joe makes some interesting points, shame it is in this thread i almost missed it.

 

[drmeathead]

the difference between a bpd girl and a girl just being an assclown is that the bpd girl takes these behaviors to extremes. the raging, the threats of suicide, the impulsive behavior are all good indicators of bpd among others. i think the tell-tale trait for me was the fact that they try to assume your personality. a normal girl who is just hor matrix personified wont try to mimic you. they are too arrogant and spoiled to think anyone else is worth mimicing. LMS unless you experience yourself (i pray you dont), you dont understand. a bpd girl will seem like she is JUST LIKE YOU. even cynics of the soulmate theory will question themselves. unforetunately it is just act one of a very deliberate play they put on to lure in their partner.

LMS maybe you can provide the antagnoists role here and argue for no BPD or BPD is just less common and women are just asshats. your opinion is respected around here and you may open some eyes. i think many are quick to blame bpd and not "the girl".

 

[jonwon]

The reason we need an anti-bpd post is:

Are we simply excusing womens bad behaviour again?

I know as a society we do it an awful lot, women are not usually accountable for there actions, to stick a label of BDP does that excuse her behaviour?

No, it does not, but i am concerned that by labeling a women BPD it will take away her responsibility for those actions and this is what concerns me.

Hence that topic needs to be addressed on SS.

 

[drmeathead]

jonwon i agree. i will go as so far as to say that bpd women are responsible for their actions too. however the man in this or in any relationship just needs to set boundaries. with a normal woman, boundaries are set and they are either adhered to or not. sure they may be challenged from time to time. with a bpd women, they attack those personal boundaries by any and all means at any and all times. this is what drains the man.

 

[Knight's Cross]

DrMeathead has it right. BPD isn't just a label for a woman acting bratty or using S#%t tests. BPD is a whole other issue. All the more reason to plate spin. It makes their behavior easier to spot. The bottom line is no matter what crap any woman throws at you, whether she's generally sound mentally or unsound, DON'T ACCEPT IT. The reason I started this post was because I wanted more input on how to GET RID OF A BPD. We aren't talking your normal woman here. This lady has after a month continued to hang on to hope. I haven't communicated with her in A MONTH. Now, normal adjusted women get that signal LOUD AND CLEAR. This one has serious abandonment issues and wants to pull me right back into her web of DRAMA. On top of that she's made suicide threats, and demonstrated other reckless traits. Thats whats different.
KC

 

[drmeathead]

as Dr. Love said on the issue...you are her potential boyfriend, not her social worker. move on

 

[KontrollerX]

"No, it does not, but i am concerned that by labeling a women BPD it will take away her responsibility for those actions and this is what concerns me."

Again I'll say its complex.

I fully believe these people are too emotionally ignorant and immature from their conditions to know the full implications of their horrible actions on those they enter relationships or even friendships with yet despite all this they still do need to be held accountable for their actions in some way.

Just like someone who is criminally insane doesn't get a free pass in society because they are insane ie they don't get released due to insanity for whatever they've done they get locked up.

Not saying locking up Cluster B women is the answer but a person damaged by them should be allowed some legal recourse whether it be suing them for emotional damages or some other form of restitution ie she doesn't want to pay the money or can't pay the money because of a financial situation and you've won the case you could then either have her sentenced to community service or put into forced treatment or both but make the both option a choice for her that it will take time off of her having to do community service if she selects both.

If she physically attacks you well I think thats already covered under the law for both men and women.

Something like this may be very hard to get taken seriously as its a personal relationship matter and could very well be laughed out of the courts and legal system as a result but being a moderator for a year at one of the forums on this and doing a tremendous amount of research on it and talking to the victims these people do a tremendous amount of damage to the psyche of their victims.

Whether they are evil or not the fact is they destroy lives because of their condition and something absolutely should be done to stop this and stop them from hurting themselves and others any further.

The law exists to protect society from harm and it would be doing a great service if something could be done with it to protect unsuspecting people from these natural born predators.