Her Going Feminine

[Spaz]

Not necessarily. You're falling into a potential trap when you think "I did x,y,z, therefore, I should attract women."

This is the fundamental difference of opinion in this thread.

I agree 100% that a man should follow his own path, on his own terms, and not be a slave to the feminine imperative.

But I don't conflate the feminine imperative with the fact that a man still has to approach and seduce females. Having stripes on your sleeve will get you some attention, but pursuing your life's goals and then waiting for the pu$$y to roll in isn't a plan for getting what you want. In other words, be your own man, but take action with women just as you do with career, lifestyle, hobbies, self-improvement, etc.

I don't often cite Rollo, but he put it well (if a bit straw-man-ish - and no I'm not calling you "haters"):

16. Dancing Monkey Hate

Hater: Men who run game are just doing the bidding of women. Alphas don’t entertain women.

If you want success with women, you are going to have to entertain them… one way or the other...We are all doing the bidding of our biomechanical overlord, and on our knees to his will we surrender, by force or by choice. You fool yourself if you believe you have some plenary indulgence from this stark reality.

Or: If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.

I don't think this subject is binary. Both sides can be right. Women will CERTAINLY auto-tune themselves to their feminine level around a masculine, attractive man. But it's a harsh biological reality that women are the gatekeepers of sex. This is not the "feminine imperative," it's an evolutionary fact whether you like it or not. Your ability to make her vagina tingle is the proof in the pudding (gross metaphor but you get what I mean). Whether that happened through your social dominance, income level, notoriety, etc. or just the way you looked her in the eye and what you said, or some combination thereof. She might make it all kinds of easy for you, but you as a man still have to navigate the shoals, and a lot of otherwise-masculine men are ignorant about how to do this. And some of us with plenty of knowledge and experience still mess it up sometimes. That's why this site exists.

This is why I singled out the "all our ancestors procreated" point earlier. It always has something to do with women, as all the posts in this thread prove.

When I say above par it means it's a confluence of traits within masculinity.

Does it guarantee women will spread their legs?

No.

But it is more then likely, the probability will be higher that he attracts women to his side in all settings because like you said its biological.

Women on a deep level are more attracted to masculine man. For example, if you display a big muscled body but scream like a girl when a rat passes by or cries like baby when u r emotionally hurt then attraction will automatically be muted.

As for Rollo, his worldview is from an expressive/passive - through his own experiences or through his own lens.

For him entertaining women's whims and fancies might be the order of the day.

And for many here, game is a step by step process of being a seducer.

But for me, game is just frame, my sum total, and its women who seduces me which is basically the only thing I know.

You hardly see me posting a step by step ritual because I truly don't know how, maybe a little, maybe subconsciously but it all comes from a confluence of masculine traits.

I most certainly don't go out looking pretty, nor the need for certain hairsprays nor a certain type of dressing nor use tricks that in all actuality to me is just preying on women's insecurities.

 

[Epic Days]

Do you disagree that leadership is a skill that can be improved upon?

Or are you trying to convince us that leadership is something ALL men have, in equal measure OR that only certain men have?

Didn't say that. Nice gas light. I asked where he learned that a man go out and practice leadership. There’s no need to modify or alter things.

 

[Spaz]

A salute. We all have different journeys. As far as looking pretty, I think that's a matter of congruence. Whatever your style, wear it well or don't wear it.

Rituals and routines I think are there for beginners who need to be broken down and built back up. You probably have absorbed everything you need subconsciously and so to be masculine and attractive comes with ease. Though we should always be learning and growing.

Journeys or paths matter.

Whilst I do agree somewhat that dressing up or looking pretty helps greatly but it must not be emphasised upon since it places a man on a path of vanity, this journey can then take a life of its own since it is a path trodden naturally by females and not males.

When I dress up its an extension of me, my office suit or my hunting suit, is in actuality an extension of my masculinity, more like an armor, a tool of power projection that actually yields tangible results.

While those from the feminine frame dresses up to impress women, in turn placing them in a supplicating frame in which it will then set those men on a path of perpetual or circle of supplication ideas, moves, tricks, etc and if this might help you visualise, a snake eating its own tail.

One would then at the height of that game plan, just would ever end up like a high priced handbag, desired because of an illusion and then when the owner gets bored, the bag is then replaced for a newer model.

I hope you do get my drift.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I asked where he learned that a man go out and practice leadership. There’s no need to modify or alter things.

You tend to start plenty of threads on the benefit of masculinity.

So when you asked another poster where they learned the idea that leadership can be learned, it seems to presuppose you don't believe that is true.

However, I apologize for misinterpreting you. Just to make sure there is no gaslighting, let me ask you directly.

Do you believe leadership can be learned?

If so, how?

Do you believe you would be capable of teaching it?

How, specifically, would you teach it were that the case?

 

[Spaz]

You tend to start plenty of threads on the benefit of masculinity.

So when you asked another poster where they learned the idea that leadership can be learned, it seems to presuppose you don't believe that is true.

However, I apologize for misinterpreting you. Just to make sure there is no gaslighting, let me ask you directly.

Do you believe leadership can be learned?

If so, how?

Do you believe you would be capable of teaching it?

How, specifically, would you teach it were that the case?

1st say please Spaz teach me more.

And I shall consider ur request.

Then after truly vetting on ur willingness, IQ level and ur inherent personality traits, I'll make an informed decision on whether to proceed or not.

This response by itself already displays examples of leadership, in that you have to adhere to my lead if you want to know more.

 

[Epic Days]

Do you believe leadership can be learned?

If so, how?

Do you believe you would be capable of teaching it?

How, specifically, would you teach it were that the case?

Leadership is a by product of competency. It’s not something that you practice.
Leadership is a recognition by others of purpose that resides in you.

Sure you can go out and do things to mimic leadership. But it’s not leadership. The man will still be the little boy inside trying to display leadership. Trying to get something (sex) from a woman, or men (production, team work etc) mimicking leadership are not masculine. One needs to change from the inside out and not the outside in.

Some are not capable of leadership. And no. Leadership cannot be taught. It’s a byproduct of individuality and competency. Being a single point of light.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

1st say please Spaz teach me more.

And I shall consider ur request.

Then after truly vetting on ur willingness, IQ level and ur inherent personality traits, I'll make an informed decision on whether to proceed or not.

This response by itself already displays examples of leadership, in that you have to adhere to my lead if you want to know more.

Thanks but I was curious about how to develop real leadership, not internet forum leadership via anonymous posts.

But your response does raise an interesting point.

Plenty of sales is based on a numbers strategy.

To memorize an effective enough pitch, and then repeat it to enough people and make a certain percentage of sales.

Supposing one did attempt your strategy, of laying down ridiculous demands.

One which you claim is an example of leadership, even BEFORE a response was received?

Does this mean if I walk through the park, talking to imaginary people, making demands of them, do I qualify as a leader before my requests receive any response?

Or perhaps I decided to pitch my leadership attempt at actual people?

What compliance percentage would one need to qualify as leadership?

If your example IS an indication of leadership, then that would mean any telemarketer that calls people with a memorized pitch would be considered a leader.

If you imply that because I'm responding to your request proves your leadership abilities, does that mean one can be a leader when the response to the request is not congruent with the request?

Another point...

The request was actually made to @Epic Days , but you replied.

Does that mean by replying to a request not made to a specific person qualifies the responder (who was not addressed) as a leader?

It seems that it's a lot easier to be a leader than I'd imagined.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Some are not capable of leadership. And no. Leadership cannot be taught. It’s a byproduct of individuality and competency. Being a single point of light.

Thank you for your clarity.

So to make sure, leadership either exists within a man, or it does not, yes?

If so, what about those that DON'T have this quality? Those not capable of leadership?

 

[guru1000]

Well that was interesting. Lol

I guess @Spaz ’s previous comments on online dating and the swiping apps and the guys who use them had a bite to it.

Actually I just read that internet post after you pointed it out. Lol.

As to OLD: any man who has no or little success with OLD will knock it. Plain and simple.

My comments toward our little friend was prompted from the Egoless thread after I destroyed his ego with logic, he went into a frenzy and tried to call me out with dominance that had nothing to do with ego. Illogical Internet tough guy lol

 

[Epic Days]

Thank you for your clarity.

So to make sure, leadership either exists within a man, or it does not, yes?

If so, what about those that DON'T have this quality? Those not capable of leadership?

First they need to develop competency. As he progresses, leadership is recognized in him and men will willingly follow. They trust his ability.

 

[Epic Days]

Actually I just read that internet post after you pointed it out. Lol.

As to OLD: any man who has no or little success with OLD will knock it. Plain and simple.

My comments toward our little friend was prompted from the Egoless thread after I destroyed his ego with logic, he went into a frenzy and tried to call me out with dominance that had nothing to do with ego. Illogical Internet tough guy lol

I have no idea why you are defending when I’m not attacking. I couldn’t care any less about what you do. I merely pointed out that spaz said some things about OLD.
One could consider it a modern adaptation I guess. I haven’t tried it so I have no idea. But trust me...if you learned it...anyone can learn it. I know that there are some women who like it.

Men live and die. Why should I be concerned about you or what you think? You’re just as destined for a grave like anyone else.

 

[guru1000]

I have no idea why you are defending when I’m not attacking. I couldn’t care any less about what you do. I merely pointed out that spaz said some things about OLD.
One could consider it a modern adaptation I guess. I haven’t tried it so I have no idea. But trust me...if you learned it...anyone can learn it. I know that there are some women who like it.

Men live and die. Why should I be concerned about you or what you think? You’re just as destined for a grave like anyone else.

I wasn’t directing that OLD comment to you but in response to the speaker of the all/none argument.

Your last paragraph was unnecessary.

 

[guru1000]

First they need to develop competency. As he progresses, leadership is recognized in him and men will willingly follow. They trust his ability.

Not to shvt on the parade, but leadership has little to do with nor is a byproduct of competency in a field (although competency and leadership make a great leader). I do believe it was Henry Ford himself who answered under oath via subpoena:

Litigator: Henry, tell us how to build a car?
Ford: I have no idea, but I hire competent professionals who can answer that question for you.

Ford was competent in finding competent professionals but not competent in that to which he was selling.

It could be further argued that competence as a leader is not necessary to lead, but rather all one needs is the inner paradigm that HE is a leader. Competence allows one to hire competent individuals or to have competence in the field itself thus making one a competent leader, but not the drive to be a leader.

To lead is influenced strictly by the mental paradigm to which a man subscribes. Either the man internalizes that HE is a leader or he is not. And even if his paradigm were not to lead, HE, the individual, can alter that paradigm to that of a leader and ... consequently ... lead--given enough incentive.

BUT, I'm sure that is what you meant.

 

[guru1000]

Thanks but I was curious about how to develop real leadership, not internet forum leadership via anonymous posts.

But your response does raise an interesting point.

Plenty of sales is based on a numbers strategy.

To memorize an effective enough pitch, and then repeat it to enough people and make a certain percentage of sales.

Supposing one did attempt your strategy, of laying down ridiculous demands.

One which you claim is an example of leadership, even BEFORE a response was received?

Does this mean if I walk through the park, talking to imaginary people, making demands of them, do I qualify as a leader before my requests receive any response?

Or perhaps I decided to pitch my leadership attempt at actual people?

What compliance percentage would one need to qualify as leadership?

If your example IS an indication of leadership, then that would mean any telemarketer that calls people with a memorized pitch would be considered a leader.

If you imply that because I'm responding to your request proves your leadership abilities, does that mean one can be a leader when the response to the request is not congruent with the request?

Another point...

The request was actually made to @Epic Days , but you replied.

Does that mean by replying to a request not made to a specific person qualifies the responder (who was not addressed) as a leader?

It seems that it's a lot easier to be a leader than I'd imagined.

You won't likely get a logical counter from Spaz so I'll answer for him.

One is the leader even before making the "unsolicited demands." As leadership begins as an intrinsic definitive quality and then manifests outward--and, thus, does not rely on the outward although it seems that it does through its manifestation. In other words, take a real leader and have him solicit demands that are not followed--is he, then, not a leader anymore? OR is he simply not leading those particular men to whom were not deferring? So in such an instance, a leader is still a leader despite not everyone following.

Even further, we can state, that the more prominent a leader, the more prominent his dis-following too.

 

[fastlife]

@stormrider Wasn't directed at you; you have an argument and articulate it well, and I think we hashed out what we agree & disagree with at length back in the day If I'm wrong in my assumptions, then no harm, no foul--and take it as a compliment.

First they need to develop competency. As he progresses, leadership is recognized in him and men will willingly follow. They trust his ability.

Lol. You can dress up any bozo in a cop's uniform and they can direct traffic and people will fall into their frame. There are people who are 100% delusional and have a long history of being incompetent in everything they've ever done, who people will literally follow to their deaths (Manson, Jones, etc.).

Leadership exists as an innate quality to greater or lesser degrees. Just like any other personality quality. But I can go tell a guy that he is 100% within his right to lead a girl from one bar to another after meeting her for 5 minutes and, even if he doesn't quite believe it, that level of social affirmation from me will give him enough frame to probably make it happen. If he does it once, then that's provide his brain proof. If he does it 100x and girls follow more often then not, then he'll develop a level of entitlement. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy--and your brain encourages you to repeat behaviors that work, until it's just who you are.

Competency has nothing to do with leadership (though it'd be nice if it did). Frame does though. Self-belief, which can be practiced, and doesn't have to have any basis in reality, is usually enough to lead the vast majority of people indefinitely. But you don't even need that (though it's a great quality to have as far as your personal experience of yourself--so I encourage guys to develop it). If you can mimic the body language and tonality of an authority figure--or, lacking ALL of that, if you can get a title from a corporation--most people's frames are so weak, and most people are so desperate to have someone give them any sense of direction, that people will follow you.

 

[Spaz]

Guru1000, is this how you cope with being hurt, by hiding behind other people's post?

Anyhow I'm sure that it's facilitating ur recovery.

When you feel ur confidence is back at full force, feel free to confront me directly, I look forward to ur training.

 

[Epic Days]

Not to shvt on the parade, but leadership has little to do with nor is a byproduct of competency in a field (although competency and leadership make a great leader). I do believe it was Henry Ford himself who answered under oath via subpoena:

Litigator: Henry, tell us how to build a car?
Ford: I have no idea, but I hire competent professionals who can answer that question for you.

Ford was competent in finding competent professionals but not competent in that to which he was selling.

It could be further argued that competence as a leader is not necessary to lead, but rather all one needs is the inner paradigm that HE is a leader. Competence allows one to hire competent individuals or to have competence in the field itself thus making one a competent leader, but not the drive to be a leader.

To lead is influenced strictly by the mental paradigm to which a man subscribes. Either the man internalizes that HE is a leader or he is not. And even if his paradigm were not to lead, HE, the individual, can alter that paradigm to that of a leader and ... consequently ... lead--given enough incentive.

BUT, I'm sure that is what you meant.

Most leaders are born or raised that way. He is or becomes competent At anything he does.
Most man are not or will not become leaders.

We have two different definitions of competency. Competency is also a mindset. One does not wish himself to be a leader.

A man must test his mettle in harsh ways. Or be thrown into that harshness or circumstances.
My father thrusted me into the $hit storm.

To suggest to these men who are unwilling to sacrifice themselves that they can lead is misleading. The secret is that a leader serves. Authoritarian leaders are made by men pretending to be leaders. They think they lead when they don’t know that they serve.

 

[Epic Days]

Leading a girl from bar to bar? Holy crap we are really getting low. Yeah that’s a man I would follow into life or death.

No wonder women say men are stupid.

 

[guru1000]

Most leaders are born or raised that way. He is or becomes competent At anything he does.
Most man are not or will not become leaders.

I know many competent people. They are not leaders.

I know many leaders. They are not competent. Matter of fact, I make a living by buying companies at a discount from incompetent leaders and selling them at multiples after I turn them around.

Competence <> Leadership

The term you’re striving for is “Effective Leadership,” which is an entirely different discussion.

Guru1000, is this how you cope with being hurt, by hiding behind other people's post?

Anyhow I'm sure that it's facilitating ur recovery.

When you feel ur confidence is back at full force, feel free to confront me directly, I look forward to ur training.

Hush lil’ baby.

 

[Epic Days]

The term you’re striving for is “Effective Leadership,” which is an entirely different discussion.

Absolutely not.
That’s one definition of the word. As it pertains to a job or a skill.