Haven't been here since 2002 and I need advice..

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by SoCalMike
Wyld,

I think what most of the guys here are trying to say is that once you've reached the point W&D has, there's not much of a chance of fixing things. I would have to agree.

When someone dumps you, and then you get back together promising them that "you'll change for the better", how often does that lead to a happy LTR? I've never heard of a single case of that happening. The odds are stacked heavily against him.

Not trying to sound negative, but let's just be realistic here.

W&D said he never told her he loved her in 3 years even though he does love her. He made it quite clear that he did not do the things he needed to do. He knows he CAN do more and he's willing to. Based on what he said, the only reason she left him was because she didn't feel loved and appreciated. That's a very easy problem for them to fix...and I think that he already gave her what she needed most when he told her that he loves her.

He didn't post about any serious problems between them...just that she didn't feel loved. There's no reason why they can't be together and do just fine. Especially now that he understands that her emotional needs are just as important to her as his sexual needs are to him.

 

[crowes22]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
Based on what he said, the only reason she left him was because she didn't feel loved and appreciated. That's a very easy problem for them to fix...and I think that he already gave her what she needed most when he told her that he loves her.

He didn't post about any serious problems between them...just that she didn't feel loved. There's no reason why they can't be together and do just fine. Especially now that he understands that her emotional needs are just as important to her as his sexual needs are to him.

This is bull, this whole story stinks. WF, you seem to be missing the point. This chick didn't get 'I love you' so she just left? I smell BS. WF, I agree you need to tweak your game in a LTR. Surely you don't think I'm saying to *ignore* an 'I love you' from a chick, unless you don't like her.

But step back and look at this. She just ends it b/c she isn't satisfied? B/C he didn't say I love you? Huh? And she was/is in love w/ the guy? You said yourself that is an easy prob to fix. Then why didn't it get fixed? She ended it and bailed instead of fixing it? Low interest.

The chicks I've LTR'd w/ would always put in considerable effort to keep the r'ship healthy, ..........unless their interest had slipped and they didn't want to be in a r'ship w/ me. BTW, I've seen guys get back w/ exes, but I have never in my life seen it last.

I don't buy it. Her dissatisfaction was no more than low interest

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by crowes22
This is bull, this whole story stinks. WF, you seem to be missing the point. This chick didn't get 'I love you' so she just left? I smell BS. WF, I agree you need to tweak your game in a LTR. Surely you don't think I'm saying to *ignore* an 'I love you' from a chick, unless you don't like her.

But step back and look at this. She just ends it b/c she isn't satisfied? B/C he didn't say I love you? Huh? And she was/is in love w/ the guy? You said yourself that is an easy prob to fix. Then why didn't it get fixed? She ended it and bailed instead of fixing it? Low interest.

The chicks I've LTR'd w/ would always put in considerable effort to keep the r'ship healthy, ..........unless their interest had slipped and they didn't want to be in a r'ship w/ me. BTW, I've seen guys get back w/ exes, but I have never in my life seen it last.

I don't buy it. Her dissatisfaction was no more than low interest

crowes, even W&D admits that she left because he DIDN'T adjust what he was doing for his LTR. This girl put up with him acting like he didn't give a sh*t about her for 3 years. From what I gathered from what he has said, she got frustrated with him because she felt like she was wasting her time because he wasn't letting her feel like the relationship was progressing anywhere. Even a woman who genuinely loves a guy will get to that point and leave if she feels like the relationship isn't progressing over time. He says that he does love her but never told her and didn't act like he loved her.

I'm convinced he can not only salvage this relationship, but make it far better than it ever was. If this was a girl who hadn't tolerated what she did for so long, I would be more inclined to agree with you. But 3 years is a long time for a woman to stay with someone who isn't showing her that he loves her or telling her the things she really needs to hear. She has to truly love him to stay that long. Since he also loves her there's nothing to lose by trying and a lot to gain if they fix things.

 

[crowes22]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
From what I gathered from what he has said, she got frustrated with him because she felt like she was wasting her time because he wasn't letting her feel like the relationship was progressing anywhere. Even a woman who genuinely loves a guy will get to that point and leave if she feels like the relationship isn't progressing over time.

Progressing to what? It is what it is. It's not the pursuit of a utopia.

This is why women fvck up their r'ships. They turn the dude off w/ their condescending attitude. Like he has so much wrong w/ him, and of course, his r'ships. You know, the "I haven't fixed him yet" camp that 99% of women regularly attend. Naturally, he becomes a block of ice toward her. It wouldn't surprise me if all this is nothing more than a trick on this chicks part to get this dude to put a ring on her finger.

Manipulative to say the least.

 

[Wyldfire]

crowes...would you want to stay with a woman who didn't have sex with you and believed it was unreasonable for you to expect sex? Of course you wouldn't. Women need to feel that they are loved and that their emotional bond within a relationship is growing and progressing over time. A woman's need for this is just as powerful as a man's need for sex. In any LTR, if you refuse to meet the woman's emotional needs you will eventually lose her just like a woman who refuses to have sex with a man will eventually lose him. It's the same exact thing.

 

[crowes22]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
crowes...would you want to stay with a woman who didn't have sex with you and believed it was unreasonable for you to expect sex? Of course you wouldn't. Women need to feel that they are loved and that their emotional bond within a relationship is growing and progressing over time. A woman's need for this is just as powerful as a man's need for sex. In any LTR, if you refuse to meet the woman's emotional needs you will eventually lose her just like a woman who refuses to have sex with a man will eventually lose him. It's the same exact thing.

I see my question was not answered, obviously. If I am in a r'ship w/ her, is that not enough fvcking evidence I like her?

Sheesh, women are so fvcking insecure. Thus they destroy their r'ships. She wants the guy to propose, go on and admit it, nothing more than a power play this is by this broad.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by crowes22
I see my question was not answered, obviously. If I am in a r'ship w/ her, is that not enough fvcking evidence I like her?

Sheesh, women are so fvcking insecure. Thus they destroy their r'ships. She wants the guy to propose, go on and admit it, nothing more than a power play this is by this broad.

crowes, I'm not the type of woman to answer if she wants him to propose or not. I'm vehemently anti-marriage. I'm actually sort of a commitment phobe...but even I would get disgusted with someone if after 3 years in a relationship I didn't feel like the guy was investing as much of himself in the relationship as I was.

No...just "being in a relationship" with someone isn't enough. Is it enough for a woman to just "be in a relationship" with you without ever having sex with you?

Women NEED ******d gestures that show she is valued and loved in a relationship. That means doing and saying things that give her something a bit more tangible. Just as to you having a girlfriend with no sex is unacceptable, it's also unacceptable to a woman to have a boyfriend with no tangible evidence of love.

That's just how it is, whether you like it or not. It's not going to change, either.

 

[crowes22]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
crowes, I'm not the type of woman to answer if she wants him to propose or not. I'm vehemently anti-marriage.

No you are not. You'd marry in a heartbeat. Step into reality. There isn't a woman I've ever met in my entire life that is anti marriage. Why would they be? Answer me this?

 

[CLOONEY]

Marked for later. Seems like an interesting thread! One of the few worth reading these days!

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by crowes22
No you are not. You'd marry in a heartbeat. Step into reality. There isn't a woman I've ever met in my entire life that is anti marriage. Why would they be? Answer me this?

crowes...I am seriously vehemently anti marriage. Hell will freeze over before I ever get married again. Even the perfect man would need duct tape, rope and chloroform to get me anywhere near an altar and I'd STILL be kicking and screaming. Trust me...after 10 years married to a violent alcoholic with Borderline Personality Disorder...I want NOTHING to do with marriage again. I had to move about 1500 miles away when I escaped the psycho ex...there is NO freaking way I want to get married again. NEVER!
I've been supporting myself and my kids on my own since 1994. I almost married my fiance who was killed but I kept putting it off and calling it off for a period of 5 years. I loved that man with all my heart, and he wanted to marry me so bad. I couldn't go through with it, though.

Now you've met a woman who is anti-marriage.

 

[CLOONEY]

Originally posted by MindOverMatter
Sometimes it's ok not to give a f*ck. When you're in a relationship that';s not serious, and you know it isn't going anywhere and you're just with her for sex or are killing time until a better girl comes along, not giving a f*ck is a zen like state of mind.

But when you are with someone for 3 years, that's a serious relationship man. it's a big time investment that runs on respect, communication and compromise.

If you are still not giving a f*ck after 3 years of being with a person, then you are not giving them the respect they've earned.

Say the situations were reversed, and one of your friends or cousins was getting married and you asked your girl to come with you. Instead of going with you, she decided notto give a f*ck and go clubbing with her girls. You'd prolly feel disrespected, and rightly so. Would this be a girl worth being with for another 3 years? Probably not.

What can you do? Well you can start showing more respect. Don't apologize like some 15 year old wuss and beg her to take you back, cause that will just give her more reason to slam the door in your face. Instead, be a man, admit that you're not perfect and have made some mistakes, and that you're willing to work things out and not let 3 years go to waste.

and if she isn't willing to work things out, give her a simple "ok that's cool, but remember, I was the one who was willing to fix things and not let 3 years go to waste."

I agree 100%.

Good read.

 

[wheelin&dealin]

Originally posted by jbbrain
Wheelin',

Good luck with all of this, although I MUST say I'm a bit surprised by this post...

You've always been a 'hardass' with 'hardass' advice...I'm curious as to what kind of advice you would have given a poster with your exact predicament 2 years ago.

Oh, how the great have fallen...

Enjoy the relationship dude.

Haha... I'm a bit surprised by myself too!

I probably would have torn a strip out of myself if I saw this post a few years back.

All the stuff on these boards is great for short term relationships and initial attraction, but there comes a point in everyone's life when they want to take it easy and calm down for a bit. I treated my girlfriend like a "textbook" don juaner, and this was fantastic in the short-term. It just made her more attracted to me. But, in the long-term... it was a recipe for disaster. My relationship turned out like hurricane Katrina.

Although she didn't leave me, she needed time away from me because I didn't show her any emotion, respect, or caring towards her family. She was pissed and didn't know what to do. It was the final straw that broke the camels back, 3 years into the relationship that set her off. All the little things built up over time. And she needed to take a step back.

Now though, everything is fantastic. Things have never been better. I understand her a hell of a lot better than I ever have and I know what I have to give her to make her happy. It's not like I pussed out and kiss her a$$ now. I know what she needs in a relationship and I know what I did wrong. Live and learn...

 

[iqqi]

kudos to W&D and Wyldfire, on this one! right to the point, situation resolved, without succumbing to the mindless ignorance of the trolls of this thread! and Wyldfire, you handled them like an angelic kindergarden teacher, so patient, so wise!! and W&D, so willing to own up to a lesson hard learned. and share it here!

if all problems could just be resolved this way, with wisdom to be gained by all!

i am inspired.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by wheelin&dealin
Haha... I'm a bit surprised by myself too!

I probably would have torn a strip out of myself if I saw this post a few years back.

All the stuff on these boards is great for short term relationships and initial attraction, but there comes a point in everyone's life when they want to take it easy and calm down for a bit. I treated my girlfriend like a "textbook" don juaner, and this was fantastic in the short-term. It just made her more attracted to me. But, in the long-term... it was a recipe for disaster. My relationship turned out like hurricane Katrina.

Although she didn't leave me, she needed time away from me because I didn't show her any emotion, respect, or caring towards her family. She was pissed and didn't know what to do. It was the final straw that broke the camels back, 3 years into the relationship that set her off. All the little things built up over time. And she needed to take a step back.

Now though, everything is fantastic. Things have never been better. I understand her a hell of a lot better than I ever have and I know what I have to give her to make her happy. It's not like I pussed out and kiss her a$$ now. I know what she needs in a relationship and I know what I did wrong. Live and learn...

Glad to hear things are better than they've ever been. I bet you're finding it far easier to find the level of attention and affection she needs and give it to her on your own instead of holding back and just end up being forced to give her attention when she gets upset over not getting what she needs from you.

It's a shame more guys don't listen to this advice and take it seriously because if they manage to find a good woman who doesn't require an excessive amount of attention and affection this one relationship tool will help them have a LTR that they actually enjoy and are happy with over a long period of time. They typically get a lot more sex out of it too, lol. When a woman feels loved but not smothered she wants to have sex more than any other time. A woman's emotional happiness is the best way to get her aroused.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by iqqi
kudos to W&D and Wyldfire, on this one! right to the point, situation resolved, without succumbing to the mindless ignorance of the trolls of this thread! and Wyldfire, you handled them like an angelic kindergarden teacher, so patient, so wise!! and W&D, so willing to own up to a lesson hard learned. and share it here!

if all problems could just be resolved this way, with wisdom to be gained by all!

i am inspired.

I bet that even as a woman you probably didn't make this connection. Most don't. If you can find a way to communicate this to any guy you're in a LTR with it could make a huge difference in how things go.

Glad you enjoyed the tip.

 

[TesuqueRed]

Originally posted by crowes22
I see my question was not answered, obviously. If I am in a r'ship w/ her, is that not enough fvcking evidence I like her?

Sheesh, women are so fvcking insecure. Thus they destroy their r'ships. She wants the guy to propose, go on and admit it, nothing more than a power play this is by this broad.

naw - i know exactly how you feel here. to me, just being there said it all. hate to admit it, but that sentiment ain't necessarily so.

kinda like if she sleeps in bed next to you - isn't that enough? who needs the moaning, the bj's and the sex?

Ok maybe not, bad example...

anyway, i read somewhere -- i'm about to butcher an idea i dimly recall here -- that people tend to be visually, aurally or physically oriented, and that what signals that get through that says to someone that "you are loved" correspond to their orientation. In effect, those that are aurally oriented need to 'hear' "I love you", while physically oriented people need to be touched, hold hands, get slammed in bed..(checking to see if you're really reading here...:crackup: ) and those who are visually oriented need I forget what. diamonds maybe.

to each his own. figure out what you need, you probably already know when a woman has a way that just gets to you. maybe it's taking care of things for you in a certain way, maybe it's getting physically affectionate in public, and it's always the bj, isn't it? (checking again)

I say check what works on you just so you know what I'm referring to.

Then check on what she responds to. That gives you a pretty good clue what they need to have.

i don't know how good a theory that is. I absolutely love hearing a woman climax (unless she sounds like a smoke-hacked trucker...), but I could care less about the 'i love yous'. so there you go...

Me? I'm with you crowes in that just me being there says it all. i never understood people who got all weepy about not saying "I love you" to someone before they died. wtf? didn't they know the other person must know it already? who needs the sappy melodramatic crap?

I had to recognize that wasn't the whole story

anyway, don't these smilies get annoying to read? whatever, signing out -- TR :woo:

 

[Immaculate]

yeah well don't let what happened to me happen to you... She meets some other dude and marries him. How would you feel then?

And I was a nice guy back then... I spent almost every day with my girl for 2 years, lost my frinds cuz of her, and treated her the way a woman should be treated and told her I loved her all the time and she told me that too... I've posted enough about this b!tch...then I neeeded some space to think for 1 month or 2 cuz she wanted marriage and kids.. When I realized she was the"one" ... I found out she already met another guy and she wouldn't leave him cuz I guess she wanted to be a stepmom to his 4 year old kid.. whatever...
she couldn't give me a little time to think about things... WOmen are b!tches.. do they even care when they KNOW they broke your heart? I mean ripped in out of your chest, stomped on it, threw it against a concrete wall, played some tennis with it, and some kickball, baseball home run derby with it, and put it back in my chest?

2 years of my life with her down the drain ... never to be heard from again.. if she wasn't "into" me as some have stated why the hell did she stay with me for to years.. Met all mu family, spent holidays with me and my family...she should have dumped me after 2 or 3 months.. 2 years is alot of time to spend with someone who "isn't into you"

And even after I found all this out I made an attemot to get her back... I called her and wanted to talk so she told me to wait for her after work... I didn't have anything to do so I sat in my car for 3 hours waiting for her ... She gave me hope she was coming back to me... but she just said the same tired **** "he has a 4 yr old kid that I love" .. I can't go back to you... SO why the **** did you make me wait 3 hours in my car b!tch???? Attention *****???

Goddamn it hurt back then and still does.

 

[penkitten]

Originally posted by Immaculate
yeah well don't let what happened to me happen to you... She meets some other dude and marries him. How would you feel then?

And I was a nice guy back then... I spent almost every day with my girl for 2 years, lost my frinds cuz of her, and treated her the way a woman should be treated and told her I loved her all the time and she told me that too... I've posted enough about this b!tch...then I neeeded some space to think for 1 month or 2 cuz she wanted marriage and kids.. When I realized she was the"one" ... I found out she already met another guy and she wouldn't leave him cuz I guess she wanted to be a stepmom to his 4 year old kid.. whatever...
she couldn't give me a little time to think about things... WOmen are b!tches.. do they even care when they KNOW they broke your heart? I mean ripped in out of your chest, stomped on it, threw it against a concrete wall, played some tennis with it, and some kickball, baseball home run derby with it, and put it back in my chest?

2 years of my life with her down the drain ... never to be heard from again.. if she wasn't "into" me as some have stated why the hell did she stay with me for to years.. Met all mu family, spent holidays with me and my family...she should have dumped me after 2 or 3 months.. 2 years is alot of time to spend with someone who "isn't into you"

And even after I found all this out I made an attemot to get her back... I called her and wanted to talk so she told me to wait for her after work... I didn't have anything to do so I sat in my car for 3 hours waiting for her ... She gave me hope she was coming back to me... but she just said the same tired **** "he has a 4 yr old kid that I love" .. I can't go back to you... SO why the **** did you make me wait 3 hours in my car b!tch???? Attention *****???

Goddamn it hurt back then and still does.

i dont think she was trying to be an attention w****. i think she was sorting it thru and needed to buy some time to make a choice.
a choice is a 50/50 thing. you never know what you are going to get in the end. however instead of chosing a guy, she apparently had feelings for or she wouldnt have needed to decide, she decided to choose the newer relationship where everything is fresh and fluffy and contained a little more hope for whatever life path she wanted to be on.
yes, that pain hurts.
however there was nothing you could have done, and karma will catch up with her on its own time.
wish her well and wish her goodbye, life sucks sometimes and im sure it really did in that car that night.
you are better off now and you will be better off knowing that it didnt drag out into some really dramatic love triangle that lasted way too long.

 

[penkitten]

whealin,
update us a little on the situation here.
it seems the gal came on home to you, let us know what happened.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

After reading this entire thread, it is clear to me (now) why Wyld created an external LTR forum. There is so much bad history being emoted in the replies that its suffocating the problem that W&D originally posted, he screwed up.

Nothing against you W&D, it would be worse if you hadn't realized what you did or acknowledge that it was because of your actions (or lack of) that put the relationship into the state that it's in.

I'm not going to start a diatribe about the mistakes or the misconceptions about nurturing a LTR the same way that one goes about establishing one. I'm not going to post any plausible solution until W&D responds to Penkittens question on keeping it in PM or opening it up to in the forum.

Personally, I don't blame W&D's trepidation, it's pretty much a given that he's going to get a barrage of "I told you so's" from the majority of the guys that posted in this thread.