Hardest thing for AFC's

[Blue Phoenix]

Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
One consistent effect an AFC encounters which makes and perpetuates him as an AFC is a continuous reinforcement of AFC behavior from both guys & girls who've also internalized this mentality.

This dynamic is is known in pyschology as 'ego-investment', that is to say a belief that has become so internalized as true that an individual's personality is at least partialy (if not totally) dependent upon it's reinforcement. The belief literally constitutes a part of the personality. Ergo, the violent opposition or flat dismissal of any principal challenging the belief regardless of merit.

Think about how difficult it would be to hear that you were not living your life correctly or not raising your child correctly from someone who lives differently from yourself. Criticism is all too often interpreted as confrontation, and most times rightfully so.

Yep!

I think the problem is that most people think that the world works the way they see it.

That´s the advantage of this board. Here you can see different perspectives and sometimes your beliefs are confrontated, then that´s when you start to wonder if what you think is wrong or not. That´s the moment you can start to change.

Most Afcs "hide their sexuality" and think they´re different from those jerks that just want sex. They don´t see that they´re wrong, because that´s how they see the "world"!

It's most about the beliefs you have. The same way narcissists who think that they must be admired in order to be happy or Aws who think that they´re only loved if they´re the center of the attention. In a way or another they developed those beliefs and they live based on those.

The only way to change Afc's is to change the way they think and to show another "role model" (some behaviors, for intance)!

 

[Virtú]

IMO, the hardest thing for the AFC is learning masculinity.

The AFC is having to find and use something that he can't easily recognize and really doesn't know anything about, all while going against the grain of New Age hippie/feminist programming that has corrupted him.

Masculinity has been stripped from American culture, so the AFC can't acquire the traits and mentality from outside, and is so out of touch with his instincts that he can't easily dredge them up from inside.

 

[Dukester]

Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
I always describe it like this to hardened AFCs; It's a lot like when you were in drivers ed in highschool when the instructor told you that if you're ever in a skid to turn into the skid. It feels completely wrong and against all natural sense of motion, but once you do turn into the skid the car rights itself.

nice analogy rollo.
people refuse to believe that somebody with more experience is right because they got their head so far up their own azz, and are unwilling to change.

the thing that pisses me off a/b that is- i'm here to offer genuine advice to AFC's, but when they tell me to shut up, that i'm not doing things right, and they are gonna do things their way anyway

i mean, wtf? you come here looking for help, but you dont take it?

to me that makes absolutely no sense.
when i came to the boards i knew i needed help, and i was reluctant at first , b/c all the DJ techniques and ideals scared me. i didnt think you could get a girl by being C&F, or throwing in neg. hits. i had always opened up, or not opened up enuff.
now i look at myself, and i've had more girls in a month than i had in the past when i was AFC.
hardest thing for me was the transition- making myself believe i could do it, and having confidence in myself!

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

The hardest thing I see on behalf of those guys too timid to realize their hopes and dreams is that their underlying philosophy is out of whack.

They go to work on 1 aspect of their life, to the negation of all other elements. It's much like working out. If you workout your chest, your body will be disproportionate. And though, you may have magnificent pecs, you still will not have accomplished what you set out for which was a GREAT BODY. Many people do this to the detriment of their legs, EVEN THOUGH working out the legs is the greatest builder of strength and size for our body's.

The same analogy is true of life, and success with women.

Any trait you can devise on scoring any woman is concurrently valuable in another aspect of life.

Creativity

This one is pretty much a given. Creativity on dates, on conversational topics, and even on designing a business is immeasurable.

Composure

Maintaining cool in all aspects of life, business, with family or with women. A woman is meant to be emotional. She seeks you as a lighthouse, or a beacon, or a rock to land upon, not some wavering ocean of emotion.

Drive

Seeking what you want and knowing when you've got it. Not settling for less. Persisting when you're set back. Again, business, family, the gym, life, women.

Humor

Being able to laugh at life and situations. Our Ego HATES the end of things, as it seeks comfort. BUT, by the virtue of life, as it is born, so shall it must also die. If it has a beginning, it also has an end, sometime in the future.

Conversational Skills

Learning how to network and speak amongst people confidently and articulately. Is there anywhere this doesn't benefit you?


The list is endless, based on your definitions of life. Suffice it say, most AFCs will seek answers in women, and realize they KNOW the solutions but have yet to implement them.

I see my friends who keep on trucking with bad women *i.e. super young, underage gals, druggies, drunks, dropouts, dbags, etc*, and alot stems from Self-Worth and from their Philosophy on themselves and life.

They've given themselves no intrinsic worth, so how can they be a prize?

I have a friend, who because he's a male, feels he's automatically a prize and can say what he wants, and what any girl who rejects him is a *bytch*. Well guess what?

He's got a dead end job *though it has a pension in 30 years*.
He's out of shape.
Takes pills for mental problems.
Has no social skills.
And never gets laid.
And when I have a female around, he persists at getting him connected to her friends.

In the end, I alienate him more as he's a deadweight too idealistic to see his own demise. His supreme arrogance to see woman as *slutz* and *less than him* never leads to any *puzzy*. He lacks skills of a true gentleman and deals with people on a leve of no trust, as he seeks to scam people, and not deal fairly with them.

And it isn't that such a person can't change, it's that he's so bent on his beliefs as WHO HE IS, that if he let go of his demons, he'd HAVE NO IDENTITY. Well guess what, we have no identity anyway. It's the mind that seeks TO KNOW SHYT. It has to, to be comfortable. To adapt. It organizes life so we can navigate it. For if we had no map, what would happen? We'd be lost!

We already are lost!

You need to develop the realization that we're here for such a blink that fear is not even an issue. It's nothing. Non existent. At the very least it was that bit of consciousness that God instilled in us all when he banished us from the Garden of Eden. And at the worst case scenario, the human mind can be the best, and worst, friend you have.

The biggest thing people desire are QUICK FIXES. I've recommended books, and articles, and sites, and seen few people even state they own it, or whether they liked it. Well, guess what, the guru's writing the crap most pay $39.95 for HAVE READ the books, have the mentors, etc, and are now just filtering it down to you in E-book form. Suffice it to say, the book is far better.

Two books a month will make u a genius and change your life. I guarantee that much.

Go with the flow of life. Stop forcing so much.
If it isn't working, try another method, after you've sufficiently exhausted the first.
Read your gut. Just because she's pretty, what other benefit do you derive by spend a portion of your short existence with her? Laughs. Excitement. Companionship.
NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER stop growing and learning.
Develop methods that work for YOU. If you desire to learn a method such as PU's at clubs, go for it. But if you have no interest, then go where you're comfortable.
Abundance is key. Women ARE all around. Just because you didn't see 10hb's in 1 day, doesn't mean you won't in a month, and at least 1 of them will give you a number. Go from there, and you've done 120 hb10 approaches in a year. If you've kept up your other activities, you'll score at LEAST 1 of them, and have the type of game you can bring anywhere, anytime, anyplace.
Enjoy the game and stop taking life so seriously. Go get an enema if you can't laugh right now and enjoy what gifts you do have. You be approaching while you're growing, because growth never ends and nor will approaching.

Your core purpose in life is more important than any woman, even if it's your wife.

You can't serve others until you've served yourself. A soldier can't protect, serve, or fight, if he hasn't first worked out to be in shape, mentally and physically. I might be noble and valiant, but if I'm not well-trained and I run off to battle, odds are better than Vegas I'd die, along with many others.

The same with women, and/or family. If you're financial, emotional, physical/health, situations are whacked out, you're the Titanic taking your whole family with you. When you're ordered together, calm, unattached, you can serve their needs now and they can rely on you. She can love freely, and not feel that you're less of a man because you can't even work properly, let alone tend to her.

The journey doesn't end....




A-Unit

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

A-UNIT: Good post. I suppose the hardest lesson for an AFC to get his head around is that Women should be a compliment to a man's life not the focus of it.

The single most common trait the AFC builds his personality on is just this focus. 'How can I as an AFC embodied in my own personality what women say they want in order to achieve their intimacy?'

The person with the most power in any relationship is the one who needs the other the least. If your personality has been conditioned to cater to the needs of women in order to achieve their intimacy over the course of your youth and young adulthood, you need them more than they need you and you've actively conditioned yourself into a position of powerlessness.

 

[Virtú]

I agree, as a general lack of faith in myself is pretty much my whole problem. It causes fear of pain and fear of failure, and without enough discipline or willpower to act in spite of it, I end up stuck.

I also notice (in me at least) that it messes with your perceptions of cause and effect. This would mean that although you could do what it takes to become the DJ/alpha male (rediscover masculinity, socialize, etc), you end up not doing it because you can't see what it will do for you.

Your gut reaction is that nothing will come of it, that logic and the rules of cause and effect don't apply in your case. You see and acknowledge the success that others enjoy from it (and eventually become bitter and jealous of them) but that doesn't prove to you that you can do it yourself.

The situation I'm in seems a lot like needing faith and confidence in order to go and do the things that develop faith and confidence - to already have the mentality in order to get the mentality.

How can you prove to yourself that what you "know" to be impossible is, in fact, merely extremely difficult?

They say that anyone can do it, that there's nothing missing in you that makes it impossible for you - but with all the resistance that I put up, I often feel that I'm not up to it, that I actually am missing something, that I am one of those unlucky few who genuinely cannot.

I am a perfectionist, though, someone who can't see the easy victories that are nearby, or the process of small victories that alone leads to the ultimate goal. I seem to be unwilling to settle for less - I want to be the best NOW - and end up giving myself impossible standards (Peter North, Ronnie Coleman, etc) that I inevitably fall far short of and eventually become so discouraged that I quit ... and without having even done anything yet.

Here I am writing all this like I'm special, that no-one else here was ever in the same boat I was - that's got to be part of it too.

 

[A-Unit]

One of the things...

...I did to fix things was to stop fixing them. I dropped the whole "pacifying my demons."

Why?

Because they were false anyway.

The perfect environment to create a super-human-male that would be:

*Alpha (I hate the term anyway)
*Business-minded
*Seductive
*Chiseled
*Socialyly-adept
*Musically inclined.
*Athletic
*Yada, yada, yada

... the product of some freak science experiment. The demons most AFC's battle ARE FAKE. They're BY PRODUCTS of your overactive mind. Stop relying on it so much. Get your work done. Play games. Thinking is for survival, no relating to another human being. Not trying create humor. That's a BYPRODUCT of feeling.

The fact of the matter is...not BEING perfect is better than PERFECT because you get to acquire the skills of perfection along the journey. Many super beautiful women are notoriously uncomfortable because they're given so much on the basis of their looks, yet the have done nothing to deserve it. She has little self-worth because what she has is based on something very intangible and fleeting.

Confidence is INTANGIBLE. Yet, I personally aspired to higher levels of relating and thinking, integreating concepts of spirituality, buddhism, taoism, and other teachings it has opened up alot more for myself than trying to cure the ills of an overactive mind.

Most super-afc's are pretty intelligent guys. They can figure stuff out and are good at memorizing. Why? They think so much. Many of my AFC friends are heavy into sports and can tout stats better than a girls' number they just met. And they weigh so heavily on that crutch to the detriment of their health, family, money, or women.

David D talked about how intelligent guys end up screwing up and alot of it has to do with the overactive mind churning out so much thought and scenario, like its sorting out war strategies. Fine if you're playing Halo 2 trying to sting your buddy, but not so good when you should FEEL what's going on, NOT WHAT'S being SAID.

I tell people to view NLP, not to seduce women, but to OPEN THE MIND TO MORE LINES OF THINKING AND QUESTIONING.

Great sales people ask great questions. So do great friends and people who score alot. They get into a person. I have friends who can ask wildly crazy questions and get convos rolling that get her feeling sexual without intending to do so. But women love those questions. They love to talk, and they love to express emotion, so opening your mind more only breeds more success and more options and more perspectives.

Your mind is like a fixed computer right now. It only operates by the programs you've given it. Until you get out there and learn more thinking, you can possibly envision different ways of doing things. This is also what separates business-minded people from those who aren't.

Masculinity comes from tapping into the little boy we once were, and still are. Think about it. We still like the little girls in the school yard and all their quirks, nothing changes. Back then we had no social stigma about our actions, we weren't told to GROW Up, we just acted, played, and had fun. What's different? Nothing, except some people want to operate by socially acceptable programs.




A-Unit

 

[h2o]

great posts A-Unit. definite must reads for anyone here; they belong in the bible, imo. thanks, you really put things into perspective.

 

[AverageFC]

I think the hardest thing about being an AFC is that youre forced to see everyone you know (males and females) on a daily basis in their happy relationships.

 

[thefonz]

the hardest thing is changing you mindset and believing that this is the REAL deal and not another bogus fad that you go through (this is still a real issue in my mind now that the intial euphoria of finding this site has worn off). I have serious afc relapses on a daily basis and not knowing when (if ever) they will end or be minimized makes me worry at times if i'm doing all the wrong things. Then i go back to the "is this just another trend?" thought that goes through my head and i have to fight it off by saying..."IT'S NOT...NOW ACT LIKE A MAN AND GO!!"

 

[A-Unit]

Rollo's statement is dead on. Very rarely do people accept fault or responsibility. Why?

Generally speaking EVERYBODY sees themselves as good under their own CONTEXT of what is good.

A girl who is a slut, will associate with other sluts and see her behavior as normal.
A guy who plays many women will associate with others of his type, and justify his behavior in a positive light.
A businessman shifting money from his corporation will see it as taking from an 'evil empire'.
Those who dupe insurance companies justify their actions by stating 'they charge too much for their coverage.'

No person wants to be viewed as bad. Even some criminals feel they're acting out of some self-defense mechanism, even if it's operating from a PAST pain it incurred, such as killing a guy for the ills his father or mother wrought upon him.

This is WHY arguing with a chick over right or wrong is ALWAYS failure, and why you MUST remain calm, cool, and collected when you present something. She'll FEEL your emotions, and NOT HEAR your words, and react to that. THEN, she'll type you out as a JERK, AZZHOLE, or D!CK, and not for good reasons.

Why do you think women do flakey things if they don't want to date anymore?

She'll push your buttons until your pissed, incite an argument, then justify it that you were a controlling azzhole. When in fact, you played into her game.

I have that situation right now. A girl I met through a cousin last spring is antsy to get a relationship moving on another level. Me, I'm enjoing my freedom. We talk a couple times a week, and hang now and then, but she gets pissy when I haven't called in a few days. Part of it is she has emotionally invested herself, and is reacting to that. But when I point out we haven't fvcked, she has no right to be blasted up about it. I can tell she's a relationship type of girl, which is not in my stars right now.

As far as men go, and more specifically, a guy who see's himself as AFC, he'd rather the world conformed to HIS IDEALS, than reshaping his WORLD to meet the goals he desires. Yet, you'll find it easier to:

A change your thinking ~~~> Change your World.

Than:

Change the work to your way of thinking.


It's easier to wear slippers than to carpet the whole world.

Yet many guys would have you do that. They'll bytch about women being ******s*, rather than learning to try and land 1. They'll complain about them being gold-diggers, which is usually the result of being had by one, giving too many gifts, or being insecure about money. You can have lots of $, and date a girl, but be very prudent about whom and when you give it out.

Who we are is a constantly evolving entity.

We're in FLOW. Who we were at 5, is differen than 10, than 15, than 20, and so on. I consider my brother, who was a bright athlete from ages 8 to 15. At 15 he suffered a major shoulder injury that ended his baseball and wrestling careers. Now he's a major musician, teaching and performing weekly. His ideals changed, he reads more, and he's very intelligent; completely opposite of who he was, and yet, he's way cooler NOW than he was then. In essence, he connected with his spirit by following the simple pleasures of his soul.

Most guys were chubby when they were young. 'Baby fat' as they so nicely call it. So what is it when it hangs on until high school? Fat? That was my case, born at 9lbs+, I was chubby until I went heavy into exercise and sports. Now, nobody recognizes me, and who I was is far different from then. Why?

Because, you never attach your identity to the past, to what people see you as, or to ideals. We're so much more than the titles you see in society of AFC, that's why you guys need to rise above such a limiting title. The real thing holding you back is the gut-busting determination to sort out yourself and your feelings on women.

I will do this even if it kills me in the process. Regardless of the pains I incur, there is no greater pain than living a half-life, living half-alive. Whenever a negative thought creeps into my mind, I will immediately do something else, read a positive quote, eat something; I will do what it takes to deflect it.

The day you're no longer AFC, RAFC, and so on won't be a day you're conscious to it. One day you'll realize you're not that scared over women because while you were approaching women, and it kinda felt weird, you were concurrently working on your life. And at this point, you realize you DON'T need a woman for any other reason than pure joy, which is precisely the REASON you should have one, and the EXACT reason she wants to be part of your life, even if it's a ONS.

It really will be like NEO Seeing the matrix. There's no other way to put such a thing. When you take the time to learn, and study, and grow, you can understand human programming and work around it.

If you haven't grabbed it yet, The Way of the Peaceful Warrior is a truly eye-opening book. I finished it in a matter of days. The collection of thoughts you grab from the book really opens your mind up MORE and MORE.

Inundating, and flooding yourself with this stuff is the way to get it to work fast.

In Psychology there exists a term called "flooding." I remember it because a gf during college was a temporary psych major, and she had a fear of clowns. My buddy was in a class with her and mentioned weaning her off this fear by "flooding." The basic premise is that, to get anyone OVER a certain fear, you should thrust them head forward into the situation, and make the thrive or die as a result of it.

The same applies here. Tippy toe-ing in is fine, and you can do that. But when you realize IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO SUCCESS, why not make your resolution for 2005 an unwavering committment to become happy and great in 1 year? Committ to a regular schedule, to some really inspiring goals, and get to it.

By flooding your brain with new thoughts, you start thinking totally different, and you can FEEL it working each day, week, and month. Dating, women, and so on ARE NO DIFFERENT. I must have 20+ topics on it. Once you're immersed in this stuff, it becomes a way of thinking. And then it's only a matter of doing. Those actions come as a natural result of your programming.

Giving up your 'Ego Investment' as Rollo put it, as akin to early explorers leaving their homeland. Sure, they may have lived in beautiful Europe, where life was safe, and comfortable, but they longed for more life. To explore the feelings they had inside about other venues on the globe. To challenge ideals once set forth by their forefathers. To question truths. To profit by their own mind and their own desires.

I'm reading the Jenna Jameson book on "How to make love to (like) a pornstar" and her life started out TERRIBLE. But in rising to the top, she had nowhere to go and nobody to help her but herself. She was meak, although hot, and probably had as little chance as anybody in the world of succeeding. Her only benefit was her body and her drive. Yet there's plenty of hotties that become early mothers and drug abusers going nowhere but the corner store.

End.




A-Unit

 

[SageOFAllenAge]

Dont know about the AFC's

But doing a cold approach is the scariest for an RAFC.

 

[Don Juanabbe]

The things I stuggle the most with are fear at times, confidence, and remembering that I am the prize. These things are not conquered overnight. I have my good days and my bad days.

This used to get me freaked out, but now I realise that I will have my ups and downs, and when I am having a down period, I do the things necessary to bring myself back up into a positive frame of mind. Sometimes, it's a daily struggle, other times, I don't really think about it. Depends on where my head is at.

 

[Don Juanabbe]

Originally posted by Matt Rogers
4. Learning not to care what other think. My friends think I am a desperate skirt chaser, because every time we go out, I hit on women. I used to worry that if I got rejected by a girl everyone would find out and laugh at me. It is hard to ignore them and takes a lot of self-confidence and self-belief.

Gawd, Matt - this one gets to me bigtime. Because knowing human nature and the way people are, it's always floating in the back of your mind.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Respect.

I tend to approach a lot of what I advise here from either a psychological or a pragmatic viewpoint. It's easy to define the psychological principles in an AFC mentality and it's easy to pinpoint the sources for this thinking. It's much more difficult to initiate an intervention for it. From a pragmatic view it's very easy to say things like "just NEXT her" or "Move on", but the AFC doesn't consider these alternatives. NEXTing a potential ONEitis subject is akin to failure in their regard, so any advice to the opposite of doing everything humanly possible to accomodate the woman is like asking an AFC to intentionally fail.

The first foundation of any good debater is to attack the argument, not the person. One consistent trait of the AFC is the lack of any fundamental debating skill. He very often knows the argument for his mindset is not valid in light of the regular results he gains by employing AFC behavior. Yet rather than finding flaw in his own argument (based on its results), he attacks the person(ality) of the opposing argument (DJ methodology) to validate his own. Another tactic the AFC regularly uses is the Straw Man argument. Rather than alter the basis of his argument, he mentally illustrates his opponent (the DJ) to be something other than his character would state or his argument would show and then knocks it down according to his own ideology, thereby reinforcing it for himself.

Most AFCs I've encountered have been highly intelligent guys. As was stated in another post, they think a lot, sometimes too much. And the AFC mentality does in fact follow a certain logic. The formula is fairly straight forward - I am a guy, I want sex with women, women do not freely give me sex, therefore I must go to the source (women) and understand their requirements for sex and respond accordingly to get sex. In a math equation this works; in sexual relations there are what's called 'confounding variables'. How often do we hear frustrations like, "Guy's will never understand women" or how 'illogical' women are or how their behaviors are based on emotions and thus justify the apparent randomness of their actions. The ambiguous and arbitrary make understanding imposible. Any number of 'jaded' answers exist to excuse the lack of validity in their very straight forward process. I hear men in their 60's and 70's still float out AFC lines excusing their lack of understanding from adhering to this mentality for a lifetime.

As I said, intervention is the crux of the whole 'Hardest thing for an AFC'. I stated in another thread that the best time to introduce an AFC to a new way of thinking is, unfortunately, when they're still stinging from the blow of a rejection or when in a state of depression or resentment brought on by their own failed ideology in this regard. Their argument has to be challenged, not them as men or boys or their persons, but a fundamental re-imagining based on good DJ ideology and rational reasons for their validity. Contrast this with the holes in their understanding and verify these lacks with their own results.

 

[Dukester]

very true rollo
but you cant help someone if they are unwilling to help themselves. it's like trying to pour water into a bucket that has not bottom.

you not only waste your time, but you hurt the AFC in the process.

until he is ready to realize that his is AFC, realize he is at fault, or depressed, or w/e. then he will not see any reason for change.

i for one do not attack the person simply b/c they are afc, b/c i myself was one once. i think we all were/are.

i try to assess the problem as best i can, and i give a solution based on my experience. if they are not willing to accept it, damn them, and it's their loss.

if they really want to live a better life they have to start trusting our judgement, and stop thinking we are character attacking when we really are not.

 

[HornetAce]

Originally posted by Double
it's all about very strong willpower that you never ever give up. if you try hard and keep going you simply can't fail. so the hardest thing is to endure and be "patient"


(remember unless you get beaten up horrible or get terrible mind/body deseases you cant fail with becomming DJ)

This is by far the hardest. It's been so many days now and I don't feel like I'm getting anywhere, but I can't give up. I absolutely could not live with myself if I gave up on this. I think the only thing sadder than me right now is me giving up completely. Goddamn, does my life suck **** right now. What the **** do I have to do to make some progress.

 

[Dukester]

Never give up- never surrender!

basically you loose if you give up.

but trying is never a loss. this isnt going to make sense right off hand, but it's very true.

if you try and succeed: you win
if you try and fail: you win
if you dont try: you loose

ok, we're gonna focus on the 2nd two, since they are confusing.

even if you fail to get that number or that date, or do that cold approach, as long as you tried you come out a winner. sure it is an instant "failure," but it's not the type of failure that can hurt.
as long as you tried, and can really tell yourself you tried- then you learn something. and when you learn you "succeed"
failure to learn is failure to succeed is failure in life

now onto the last one, which is sorta described above as well. if you dont even try, then you loose, you fail, and you dont suceed. how are you ever gonna get n e where in life if you dont try. people who just give up early on lead alcoholic, drug abusive, "loser" lifestyles.
persistence, perseverance, and possibility are what you need. you need to stick with it, dont get discouraged, even if you "got shot down," and think of the endless possibilities you can have when you do succeed, when u WIN

 

[comic_relief]

Some excellent responses guys. I think this is bible worthy.

 

[Dukester]

i can send a message to the mod, maybe if we get enuff votes one of them will add it. it does take a lot to get something in the bible tho. we need more people respond to this thread