Gunman kills 21 on Virginia Tech campus

[Call_Me_Daddy]

You would not know or recognize responsibility if it bit you in the ass, would you?

You're a piece of work you know that?

You're usually more subtle with your hypocrisy. Guess you slipped this time.

 

[bigjohnson]

.... but people wouldn't "need" to protect themselves if guns weren't allowed in the first place!!

Because there was no murder or violence before firearms were invented. The gun is called an equalizer for a good reason - work it out.

Legitimate uses for guns:

• Shooting sports
• Hunting
• Protection from wild animals
• ... and more

Ban Baseball! Ban cooking with sharp tools! How about we ban cars? They kill a LOT of people every day.

... in the constitution we have the right to bare arms

Some places they bare more than their arms.

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

If you really want to kill someone and you don't have a gun, you'll find something else to use.

Guns make it easier.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

why does society even need guns? I say guns should only be handed out to the military

The whole amendment in the constitution was to allow people to carry guns as a means of protecting themselves from the government. (Pick one.)

As a means to ensure freedom. Whether for good or bad.


Right?

 

[darwinian_sympathiser]

Retardation definitely embodies your state of mind to believe that is what I meant. But then again it's your choice to believe what you would like to believe, or will you say it's not your fault that you can't comprehend the concept on another another dimension?

I know exactly what you meant, but what you are saying is still utterly retarded and offensive. Self preservation is a major instinct in all of us and it does not require any book or advice from anyone to act out - thanks for pointing out the obvious!!

I am still deeply saddened and shocked. I would like some psychologists to have some input here.

My personal view is that changing the gun laws won't prevent this thing from happening. Making it hard to own guns might cut down on accidental shootings, crimes of passion (in the heat of the moment etc. . . ), but I'd doubt it would prevent something like this, just look at the Hungerford. If he wanted to do it he would find a way of getting the guns.

There's chilling thought at the back of my mind, and I don't want to offend anyone about it, but this could just be a statistical thing. With the rise of mass communication (read information on making bombs freely available, conspiring forums/chat rooms, free porn), degradation of the community and family unit, etc. . . it much easier to be lonely than ever and develop psychotic tendencies and go into your own world. And it could just be due to the fact that if you get a sample large enough there's always bound to be one incident like this that will happen in a certain number of years. They would argue that we ought to fix the root of the problem that caused this, but it might not be fixable due to the sheer population size/diversity of life now.

 

[bigjohnson]

Another related thought is that the pervasive nature of anonymity in the modern world can allow some people to operate for decades without effective societal checks and balances. It seems to me this is a bad thing.

Personal attachments to a village of others whose opinions matter to us and thus help shape and mature us are increasingly optional.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...I am still deeply saddened and shocked. I would like some psychologists to have some input here.
...

By the type of emotion you're displaying in your posts it seems that you a feeling a sense of personal vulnerability that may have been innate and are using this tragedy as your soup box to vocalize your personal convictions for your own clarity. Just how much does this have to do with you as opposed to the people who have died?

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Personal Responsibility

Acting autonomous.
Not "expecting" someone else to support your own welfare.
To provide for yourself.
Claiming right to your being.

In a way, we ALL are acting as victims if we rely on someone else to "protect" us. Perhaps in modern day society, there's nothing we can do, as we're quite interdependent. That however does not mean we, like sheep, haven't rolled over for the slaughter. We're giving up rights. We subcontract our protection. We subcontract our retirement, our health, even our kids and marriages. We all give alms to Big Brother, to Corporate America, and sometimes our very own gf's. Everyone but ourselves.

Would it have been so bad in ALL these various school shootings if kids were taught self defense and/or allowed weapons of some sort to protect themselves?

The other alternative are bigger fences, barbed wire, biometric chips, more security, more armed guards, more war, more fear, more terror. And why do we have fear?

Because nobody is prepared. People will look to the campus, the gov, the faculty, psychologists. They'll look everywhere but themselves. They have fear because they can't comprehend. And they can't comprehend because we've given up so much hoping to protect ourselves, and haven't found that utopia of protection. What else need we sacrifice? Millions have died over the years to create better worlds under the illusion we can eradicate this chaotic element, rather than embrace our personal responsibility to it and being a whole person.

The sad fact is...yes it could have been prevented. Unfortunately, decades ago, we decided not to teach kids how to fend for themselves but instead began coddling them. We decided gun control, much like its cousin drug control, would be a good idea. We decided the government could do all the things we could do. Fear exists because people don't know, or at least become part of the process. You can't erase all of it, but at least if you're part of it, you're aware. You've got skills and abilities. Right now, people are worrying, fearful, and want this element erased from our minds. The only logical course of events are...

1) Greater campus safety protocols, which will likely be a true police force that is armed, gated colleges, cameras, some sort of licensing for RA's, the banning of more goods on campus, metal detectors, and much, much more.

2) Teach kids and adults how to use weapons, disarm attackers, and learn self defense. Not only is self defense a cardio-based activity, but it's actually USEFUL! WOW.

The reality is...you might not have stopped the attacked from getting 1 person, but you theoritically COULD have prevented them from getting 31 more people (excluding himself). And if you're worried about "information" falling into the wrong hands. Wrap your mind around this...anyone with a will, will find a way. The PUA community emerged FROM nothing and has become a million dollar money maker. Any fool with a passionate rage can find what they want to do what they desire. So all you limit by limiting the GOOD is embracing and FOSTERING the bad elements of society. The real fear is...the good are cowering, giving up their rights, even guns, all to avoid what are the known realities of life.

AND...for those SECRET detractors...you may not ATTRACT this, as negative as it sounds, but this WILL make you think twice about learning self defense and learning to fire a weapon properly. You wouldn't attract the bad crap in life, but if you're not prepared for it, realistically, you did attract it because you never planned, prevented, or cared about it. It was a like a leaky hole in your boat.

Safety is an ILLUSION here. Unless you're wealthy enough to purchase a BODYGUARD, you're never 100% safe. Moreover, presidents have had bodyguards, and countless numbers have been attacked, so it certainly isn't 100%.

Good Day and God Bless,

A-Unit

 

[Last Man Standing]

Wyldfirestorm - you are personalizing this - don't do that!! It has nothing to do with you or those here!

A-unit -- they passed a law in virginia in 2006 to keep guns away from campus and the individual so your assessment is wrong -- gun control laws will be implemented throughout the country to disarm the citizens - this is the goal - watch for it!!!!

 

[guayaballer]

Wyldfirestorm - you are personalizing this - don't do that!! It has nothing to do with you or those here!

A-unit -- they passed a law in virginia in 2006 to keep guns away from campus and the individual so your assessment is wrong -- gun control laws will be implemented throughout the country to disarm the citizens - this is the goal - watch for it!!!!

although it may have nothing to do with her or anyone here its still mind boggling how one disturbed man could end 33 lives including his own and injuring various others in cold blood. especially with just 2 handguns!! the columbine massacre there were 2 guys with automatics and only managed 12 kills. and i think it was vulpine who said this but he wasnted stopped but he stopped he could have easily killed more.


why disarm citizens? goverment is only making it harder for people who need guns not to get them. crackhead willie across the street can still get an uzi with ease but a deli store owner has to wait 3 days or more?

 

[grinder]

Earlier in this thread I said it looked like it was over a girl. I’m beginning to think I was wrong. It’s not about guns, girls or VT’s response.

This guy was just a Grade A scrambled-brains-nut-job. Had been for years.

I used to work with NGRI’s (not guilty by reason of insanity) that did some nasty violent sh*t; and, although many fit the profile with messed up parents, being loners and sociopaths, there were a thousand others who fit the profile that never did sh*t. I never figured it out.

Let’s honor the dead, and support the survivors and forget about this faceless (pun intended) loser. Lets not make him/what he did to be somebody’s poster child for <your cause here> He does not deserve that attention.

 

[Wyldfire]

Um...no, I'm not personalizing it at all.

The shooter left a letter pages long blaming "devious charlatans", "rich kids" and "debauchery" for his rampage. Blame, blame, blame, blame...nothing was his fault. He was a victim of everyone and everything...poor, pitiful guy...not. It's the SAME thing with some guys here...blame, blame, blame... "I'm angry because women are evil.", "I'm bitter because feminism made me this way." Give me a freaking break...they are angry and bitter because they CHOOSE to be. They are angry and bitter because they expect things to be given to them and never have to put forth any effort. It's easier for them to blame everyone and everything else instead of holding themselves accountable because they do NOT want to change. They just want to biotch about how bad they have it. Oh boo-freaking-hoo. If a person does not like their reality then they can CHANGE it. Everyone can do that...everyone has the choice. Anyone who blames and biotches all the time LIKE their misery...they feed off it.

I'm posting this because I'm hoping that it might help some of those who were embracing the same thinking of the blamers avoid going that route. That is not a bad thing.

Wake up calls can be a wonderful catalyst for change and action...

 

[Wyldfire]

Earlier in this thread I said it looked like it was over a girl. I’m beginning to think I was wrong. It’s not about guns, girls or VT’s response.

This guy was just a Grade A scrambled-brains-nut-job. Had been for years.

I used to work with NGRI’s (not guilty by reason of insanity) that did some nasty violent sh*t; and, although many fit the profile with messed up parents, being loners and sociopaths, there were a thousand others who fit the profile that never did sh*t. I never figured it out.

Let’s honor the dead, and support the survivors and forget about this faceless (pun intended) loser. Lets not make him/what he did to be somebody’s poster child for <your cause here> He does not deserve that attention.

Normally I would agree with you about not giving the shooter the attention...but not here. The shooter blamed everyone but himself for what he did in a letter he left behind. That's a very familiar theme around here...blaming. That needs to change and if this tragedy can help bring that change here than it is certainly worth talking about.

It's not about guns or video games or a girl...all excuses. Strong men do NOT make excuses or blame people.

 

[ricorico]

Personal Responsibility

Acting autonomous.
Not "expecting" someone else to support your own welfare.
To provide for yourself.
Claiming right to your being.

In a way, we ALL are acting as victims if we rely on someone else to "protect" us. Perhaps in modern day society, there's nothing we can do, as we're quite interdependent. That however does not mean we, like sheep, haven't rolled over for the slaughter. We're giving up rights. We subcontract our protection. We subcontract our retirement, our health, even our kids and marriages. We all give alms to Big Brother, to Corporate America, and sometimes our very own gf's. Everyone but ourselves.

Would it have been so bad in ALL these various school shootings if kids were taught self defense and/or allowed weapons of some sort to protect themselves?

The other alternative are bigger fences, barbed wire, biometric chips, more security, more armed guards, more war, more fear, more terror. And why do we have fear?

Because nobody is prepared. People will look to the campus, the gov, the faculty, psychologists. They'll look everywhere but themselves. They have fear because they can't comprehend. And they can't comprehend because we've given up so much hoping to protect ourselves, and haven't found that utopia of protection. What else need we sacrifice? Millions have died over the years to create better worlds under the illusion we can eradicate this chaotic element, rather than embrace our personal responsibility to it and being a whole person.

The sad fact is...yes it could have been prevented. Unfortunately, decades ago, we decided not to teach kids how to fend for themselves but instead began coddling them. We decided gun control, much like its cousin drug control, would be a good idea. We decided the government could do all the things we could do. Fear exists because people don't know, or at least become part of the process. You can't erase all of it, but at least if you're part of it, you're aware. You've got skills and abilities. Right now, people are worrying, fearful, and want this element erased from our minds. The only logical course of events are...

1) Greater campus safety protocols, which will likely be a true police force that is armed, gated colleges, cameras, some sort of licensing for RA's, the banning of more goods on campus, metal detectors, and much, much more.

2) Teach kids and adults how to use weapons, disarm attackers, and learn self defense. Not only is self defense a cardio-based activity, but it's actually USEFUL! WOW.

The reality is...you might not have stopped the attacked from getting 1 person, but you theoritically COULD have prevented them from getting 31 more people (excluding himself). And if you're worried about "information" falling into the wrong hands. Wrap your mind around this...anyone with a will, will find a way. The PUA community emerged FROM nothing and has become a million dollar money maker. Any fool with a passionate rage can find what they want to do what they desire. So all you limit by limiting the GOOD is embracing and FOSTERING the bad elements of society. The real fear is...the good are cowering, giving up their rights, even guns, all to avoid what are the known realities of life.

AND...for those SECRET detractors...you may not ATTRACT this, as negative as it sounds, but this WILL make you think twice about learning self defense and learning to fire a weapon properly. You wouldn't attract the bad crap in life, but if you're not prepared for it, realistically, you did attract it because you never planned, prevented, or cared about it. It was a like a leaky hole in your boat.

Safety is an ILLUSION here. Unless you're wealthy enough to purchase a BODYGUARD, you're never 100% safe. Moreover, presidents have had bodyguards, and countless numbers have been attacked, so it certainly isn't 100%.

Good Day and God Bless,

A-Unit

I agree with teaching the kids self defense and how to handle themselves in situation as these. Yet, they teach home economics and classes in useless stuff.

 

[Rudra]

Uh, because they have the most firearms training?

Busted.

Do you own a gun?
Have you ever shot a gun?
Are you a victim of a gun crime?
Have you commited a gun crime?

St. Petersburg, Russia?
Arguing whether or not Americans should carry guns?
Not quite arguing but rather "flameguing"?
Member since February?
27 posts?

Welcome, I have a special VIP* list for you.



*Very Ignored Person

huh?? Now that indeed is cheap.

I´ve been on and off the site since 2001... sorry, mate. BTW coming up with a member´s registration date ususally shows that people are absolutely out of arguments.

Yes, I have shot all kinds of firearms, I´ve served in the forces for two years. I´m an expat, but where for heaven´s sake would the connection be between my location and the valiability of my arguments?

Where was I flameing...? I was argueing and you for personal reasons chose to get emotional.

When it comes to arming certain groups of people, IMHO it is interesting to have a look at Switzerland and Germany. In Switzerland, it is very easy to legally buy firearms; every male after his time in the army gets to keep his assault rifle and hand gun at his home. But Switzerland has one of the lowest homicide rates in the world. Nevertheless, they decided to take the firearms away from the people as they argue that every person shot is one person too many.

Equally interesting is Germany, which has very strict gun laws and enforcement, but one of the highest amounts of illegal firearms in the world, it is said to be 30-40 million for an overall population of 80 million. But the homicide rate including firearms is very low (0,2 in 100 000), just a little higher than in Switzerland and about 30 times lower than in the US.

Food for thought...

Strange, Vulpine... Your stuff is usually good, I like to read you, but here... lets not get emotional, if that is possible at all when discussing such awful things.

 

[SuperChillies]

I like to sarge my former college(s)...but I guess people were very uptight and a lot of security there....sucks cause all the young hot girls goto college...

guess I will take it easy for a week before going on campus again...since I am not really supposed to be there....

 

[Last Man Standing]

He didn't do this over a woman.

College campuses are the weakest security installation in America. Hundreds and thousands of un-trained, untrained, immature, somewhat illucid, incoherent, co-eds gathered under the ruse of protection. Campus security is difficult for a freshman transfering booze, but lame for anyone who wants to pull off criminal acts. Even if something goes down, the PS at most colleges is LAX at best. They're rungs below true cops. I know, I went to 3 campuses. They cover up more crime than imaginable so people
" in nature occurs on campus, the first line of Communication is Public Safety/Security and the Resident Assistants. From there, RA's communicate with their respective residents. The time line was what...1.5-2 hours from first incident to second? Even if students didn't spread word, the campus has a DUTY to state emphatically, a killer is on the LOOSE, find him, identify him, or LOCK yourself up. Without fail. That is or should be protocol. There's immense liability if someone found 2 people shot and the campus wasn't taken care of properly.

- Ballistics experts/reports are discovering bullets are NOT matching. More to come on this front.

- Does anyone believe that videos game or some unplanned, unrehersed event could be executed so ruthlessly and in such a devastating manner? I don't.

Gun protection laws and gun laws that would train citizens FAILED this day. If anything, it was an event that will be used to BEEF up security on campuses ACROSS the nation, and used as an example for ALL parents at interviews to ask the big important questions as their 18 year old virgin daughter attends campus.

I really would "buy" it that it was this kid, acting alone, as some loner who writes creepy stories, if there weren't 33 dead and 20 more wounded with near perfect shooting. I would. But I can't. It avoids logic to think some kid, even if it was planned months in advance could STILL act upon such a plan and get that many people. That's way too big for a 23 year old student from VA tech. However, there's lot of people with creepy stories, books, movies, porn, and pictures who DO NOT do this. 140 bullets, 2 hands, and the unfortunate killing of many people does not add up. I don't know what it is, all I know is...this fuxup ruin lives. For what?

The convocation was a nice touch to a terrible event. Hopefully va tech recovers soon. The attitude and spirit to keep the colors was positive.

A-Unit

Yes, there is much more to this than meets the eye!!! This is why I stated before - watch for the banning of guns - there is an agenda here!!

There was probably more than one shooter - others were involved! Oh yeah, and of course - 911 WAS an inside job!! http://www.infowars.com/

 

[DrMetallica]

What a ****ED up tragedy.

 

[fundates_2k7]

Sad I know his life was f*cked up but jesus lord why take it out on others?I mean i have similar feelings on taking out of the world but then i remind myself is it worth it?Jesus lord that guy needs to listen to 2pac"Keep your head up".If i was his friend i would have stopped this,trust me i have a way of people liking me!

I dont care what race,what religion you are in me eyes your a brother color means sh*t!To me!

 

[d9930380]

(Lack of) Women are the root of all evil.

As Artie Lange says on Howard Stern "I still believe 6 milliion jews died because some jew bird didn't blow him"

BTW - For those who said why did he take out all the rest. Anger isn't logical, look at riots after Rodney King or Watts where their own areas get damages the most. It's an explosion of pent up emotions.

I also love the way he was against debauchery - yea just because he wasn't getting any.

As for someone saying poor him, if he had of comitted suicide then no-one would have known is pain, now everyone does. This shows alot of empathy with the killer and that worried me. No one else is responsible for his pain, he is. You can't blame society. You can't help these people, they either help themselves and grow up and become adults or they do **** like this.