GUIDE TO CUTTING UP

[medjaun]

From what I understand the whole "fat burning zone" thing is overrated, ie running in the morning/longer than 20 min.

The reason is that although you do burn more fat by doing that your body will compensate and store more fat later in the day. HIIT is better because it rasies your metabolism so much higher than regular jogging does so you end up burning more calories and fat in the end.

So calorie deficit+proper weight training will = fat loss with minimal muscle loss.

 

[Warboss Alex]

The reason is that although you do burn more fat by doing that your body will compensate and store more fat later in the day.

Got any links/references which prove this?

I'm skeptical.

 

[Nightwing]

Originally posted by medjaun
From what I understand the whole "fat burning zone" thing is overrated, ie running in the morning/longer than 20 min.

The reason is that although you do burn more fat by doing that your body will compensate and store more fat later in the day. HIIT is better because it rasies your metabolism so much higher than regular jogging does so you end up burning more calories and fat in the end.

So calorie deficit+proper weight training will = fat loss with minimal muscle loss.

I agree with that. I lost 30 lbs on a cutting cycle with no cardio thrown in my workouts. The only thing I did was hit the weights really hard, going from one exercise to another with no rest in between, going until muscular failure.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Originally posted by Nightwing
I agree with that. I lost 30 lbs on a cutting cycle with no cardio thrown in my workouts. The only thing I did was hit the weights really hard, going from one exercise to another with no rest in between, going until muscular failure.

Cardio is a healthier option though.

Besides, calorific deficits through diet alone make me grouchy.

 

[medjaun]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
Got any links/references which prove this?

I'm skeptical.

I'll have to look around. A lot of what I learned was a few years ago over at misc.fitness.weights. There's a guy named Lyle Mcdonald that has written books about ketogenic's who posts a lot of good stuff.

I don't have any scientific links but here's a sample discussion on that group talking about the subject:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group...+morning+cardio&rnum=3&hl=en#7e9ac57af7e0ab30

Here's another one:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group...+fat+compensate&rnum=6&hl=en#7aa754d9d2455749

Pretty much summed up by this quote:

"Bingo, you tend to find that 24 hour balances are the same.

If you burn glycogen during the workout, incoming carbs go to restoring
glycogen (meanbing they don't go to providing energy). Assuming you're
in a caloric deficit, the body has to get energy from somewhere; it does
it by burning fat.

And vice versa, if you burn fat for fuel (and don't deplete glycogen),
incoming carbs tend to be used for energy, meaning less fat used for fuel.

Over 24 hours, the end result is pretty much identical (as Wayne pointed out). "

Obviously has to be taken with some grain of salt but I have the most faith in some of the people on that group than anywhere else I've researched (Lyle is very obsessive about it and seems to know is stuff)

 

[Warboss Alex]

Eh.. Lyle's mostly talking about average, ordinary people, not bodybuilders. He can keep his methods, I'll keep to mine.

I've no doubt that largely sedentary, average men or women could benefit from his methods, but since keto diets and bodybuilding doesn't mix I can't see why we should listen to him..

 

[medjaun]

The keto diet is for cutting not bodybuilding. And that wasnt the point me showing these threads (as far as ketogenics) but instead what he's about the science behind the idea that going to a "fat burning zone" has no net effect on losing fat because the body compensates.

 

[Warboss Alex]

The keto diet is for cutting not bodybuilding.

Exactly that - it's not for bodybuilders, whether they want to gain mass or lose bodyfat.

 

[Warboss Alex]

And as for science, science also 'proves' that the body can't assimilate err.. some percentage of protein lower than 2g per lb bodyweight, but in practise this has proven to be incorrect.

 

[medjaun]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
Exactly that - it's not for bodybuilders, whether they want to gain mass or lose bodyfat.

Interesting, how is keto bad for losing bodyfat? And what exactly do classify as a bodybuilder? I'll probably never use a keto diet but I'm just curious as to its disadvantages.

 

[medjaun]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
And as for science, science also 'proves' that the body can't assimilate err.. some percentage of protein lower than 2g per lb bodyweight, but in practise this has proven to be incorrect.

True science can be disproven all the time, but it can still be valid in many situations.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Originally posted by medjaun
True science can be disproven all the time, but it can still be valid in many situations.

I didn't say it wasn't valid persay, but I've proven (on myself) that a body grows faster and bigger by eating more than the prescribed 30g of protein per meal..

 

[Warboss Alex]

Originally posted by medjaun
Interesting, how is keto bad for losing bodyfat? And what exactly do classify as a bodybuilder? I'll probably never use a keto diet but I'm just curious as to its disadvantages.

I'd say a bodybuilder is someone who works out regularly in some sort of progressive fashion, i.e. they record their lifts and try to improve them every time, striving to increase muscular mass, they watch what they eat (high protein etc) and generally go through more physical exertion than the average 'gym bunny' (who goes for the pump/women/to look as if he's doing something etc).

Generally these people will need a greater amount of energy (food) for their workouts and lifestyle (carbs) and to rebuild and regrow (protein) ... that's why I don't think a ketogenic (restricted carb) diet is feasible. I personally couldn't do it - I know variations of the keto diet are used for contest preparation (for competetive bbers) but I'm talking about the majority of us who don't compete.

I never said ketogenic diets are bad for losing bodyfat though, just that in my opinion, if a bodybuilder wants to lose bodyfat then by going on a keto diet is going to lose him too much muscle - the diet which made the person's muscle mass will keep their muscle mass. In my experience, you don't grow off keto diets!

 

[medjaun]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
I'd say a bodybuilder is someone who works out regularly in some sort of progressive fashion, i.e. they record their lifts and try to improve them every time, striving to increase muscular mass, they watch what they eat (high protein etc) and generally go through more physical exertion than the average 'gym bunny' (who goes for the pump/women/to look as if he's doing something etc).

Generally these people will need a greater amount of energy (food) for their workouts and lifestyle (carbs) and to rebuild and regrow (protein) ... that's why I don't think a ketogenic (restricted carb) diet is feasible. I personally couldn't do it - I know variations of the keto diet are used for contest preparation (for competetive bbers) but I'm talking about the majority of us who don't compete.

I never said ketogenic diets are bad for losing bodyfat though, just that in my opinion, if a bodybuilder wants to lose bodyfat then by going on a keto diet is going to lose him too much muscle - the diet which made the person's muscle mass will keep their muscle mass. In my experience, you don't grow off keto diets!

I know Lyle and most of the people there at MWF are pretty serious about weights (that's what the group is there for) and bodybuilding. In fact they're are serious to the point of almost sounding a bit elitist at times and make fun of the so called gym bunny (although many niche newsgroups are like that). I was under the asumption that you didn't loose a lot of muscle on keto diets, as long as you trained correctly. I actually bought one of Kyles ebooks on keto dieting a while ago but never used it. I think its a type of diet that is best for last resort needs when a regular diet doesn't drop the weight you want as it seems fairly hardcore in its requirements and how it affects you mentaly (Lyle admits it will make you a cranky ***** at some points).

As far as the fat burning zone thing the general concesus over there is that even if it does make a difference its minimal and ultimatly you need to do cardio at a time that you'll stick with and not worry so much about the time or day.

 

[Warboss Alex]

As far as the fat burning zone thing the general concesus over there is that even if it does make a difference its minimal and ultimatly you need to do cardio at a time that you'll stick with and not worry so much about the time or day.

That verges on overthinking dangerously anyway..

 

[Viper]

I started working out about a week ago and I want to know if this is a good daily schedule for working out:
1. Get up in the morning, stretch.
2. Have breakfest.
3. I go outside and powerwalk around the neighborhood for about 10 minutes, then I run for 10 minutes. This is my daily 20 minutes of cardio.
4. Get home and have myself a nice drink of water.
5. I have alot of free time until dinner comes around, so for the next few hours, I watch TV, go on the computer, that sort of thing.
6. Have dinner.
7. I begin my workout by doing a series of sit-ups and pushups.
8. I lift weights. The dumbells that I use aren't that heavy, so I have a more qaunitity than qaulity type attitude when lifting.
9. Do what I do until I decide to go to bed.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Sorry mate, as far as I can see your workout is purely recreational and I can't see you gaining much, if at all, off it.

 

[Viper]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
Sorry mate, as far as I can see your workout is purely recreational and I can't see you gaining much, if at all, off it.

Uh... that's nice and all, but I can't really see that bit of information helping my game. It would help me though, if you told me why my workout is "purely recreational" and gave me tips on improving my workout scheduel, I think that would help alot more.

 

[Warboss Alex]

1. Your cardio is burning off your breakfast.
2. You're not eating enough or often enough.
3. You sit on your arse for most of the day.
4. Quantity not quality does not get you anywhere, muscle-wise.
5. Your diet is probably lacking in protein and good fat.
6. What happens when your dumbbells get too light to challenge you?

How's that for a start?

 

[kav_3]

Ok well not sure if I should of started a new topic or not but I thought i'd post here. For the first time in my life i'm going to join a gym and I want to start cutting so I can get rid of my bodyfat, i'm about 6'0-6'1 and weigh about 200 pounds.

Well the problem is that I don't really know what to do, like what type of diet I should go on and what excercises to do. So was wondering if someone can help me with making a diet for the first week that I can just keep using and modify as the weeks progress, as well as what type of excercises I should do during the week, any kind of help would be appreciated.