Girl taking over a week to respond to a text she initiated!

[Dr_jitsu]

Yeah. The old Doc Love advice was to only use the phone to arrange dates and disappear otherwise. That would have spared me a lot of trouble with this girl. Although most girls do like to text between dates as it makes them feel connected and moves things along and as they are texting lots of guys then if you don't play along she will simply text someone else and try to build a connection with them.

Yeah there wasn't much sexual tension. She was affectionate and touchy feely on our dates so I guess she felt comfortable with me but it was my job to try and break that physical rapport by breaking boundaries and touching her sexually.

And the timing of my holiday probably didn't help either and probably contributed to things fizzling out.

Probably easier to start fresh. I think I've made far too many mistakes and turning things around would be too much work.

Ah good old Doc Love. I used to listen to his radio shows 25 years ago. He was, of course, way before texting but he was also right about 80% of the time. Having said that, I was never willing to pay $200 for his book, LOL.

In your case he would tell you that you should have, and be hustling other phone numbers in addition to this gal.

 

[SW15]

The old Doc Love advice was to only use the phone to arrange dates and disappear otherwise. That would have spared me a lot of trouble with this girl.

Doc Love was primarily giving advice during the landline era of telephones.

I've had to navigate 3 eras of telephones during my time in the mating market and I'm an older Millennial in my early 40s.

1. The landline era -- I remember in junior and senior years of high school (1999-2001), I did not have a cell phone. In my senior year of high school, almost no one in my senior class had cell phones. I do remember calling girls using my home landline phone and calling their home landline phones. Sometimes you'd even have to speak to a girl's parents. That was not easy. It actually took some guts to do that.

2. The pre-smartphone/pre-mass adoption cell phone era: This was roughly 2000-2008. While the iPhone launched in 2007, it did take some time for it to get some adoption. This was a better era for phones as it addressed some of the deficiencies of landlines yet text messaging wasn't that much of a thing. By 2005-2008, texting was starting to become more popular as some people had Blackberries and Sidekick type phones that were better than flip and candy bar style phones for sending text messages. Voice calling was still viable until the late 2000s for a lot of early stage mating interactions.

3. The entrenched smartphone era: I would call this 2009-present. The cell phone became text messages first. Voice calls have been declining. They have been very much phased out. Younger groups like the ones I was dating in 2009-2012 were among the first to be text first. In my late 20s, I found this to be an adjustment that I never really liked.

I am 62 and back in the day it was soooo much better. Especially before caller ID. Call a gal, let it ring, no answer no problem. Call a day or two later, space things so she does not know it is you and nearly every time you would get her on the phone.

Then you could chat her up, get some convo going and boom ask her out. If she says yes, great, if no move on. There was no waiting, no uncertainty. And actually getting her on the phone was a great way to chat her up to the point that she would want to make the date. Talking on the phone is so much more masculine than texting. I used to date close 4 out of 5 women I would get phone numbers from back then.

This is just one of the many ways that technology has ruined dating. It is also why today you need plans and strategies.

I like this. I didn't get to spend much time in the landline era, especially pre-caller id.

Getting someone on a phone now even with caller id and both sides having each other's numbers can be difficult.

In the smartphone era, getting a phone number is worthless without having a concrete date plan. It's unlikely to result in a voice call with Millennial and Gen Z females. Why bother? I only collect a phone number now after I get a date agreement with a specific date plan and time. I'm not going to send text messages and bother to "sell a first date" over text-based messaging. That can work better for 2nd and 3rd dates.

The use of voice calls is just better in the first 2-3 months stage of getting to know a female and establishing a new interaction, especially in the goal of a longer term, more committed relationship.

That would have spared me a lot of trouble with this girl. Although most girls do like to text between dates as it makes them feel connected and moves things along and as they are texting lots of guys then if you don't play along she will simply text someone else and try to build a connection with them.

Texting has a lot more downsides than upsides. I will acknowledge that the texting stuff can be challenging and that some females feel more connected with it.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

Doc Love was primarily giving advice during the landline era of telephones.

I've had to navigate 3 eras of telephones during my time in the mating market and I'm an older Millennial in my early 40s.

1. The landline era -- I remember in junior and senior years of high school (1999-2001), I did not have a cell phone. In my senior year of high school, almost no one in my senior class had cell phones. I do remember calling girls using my home landline phone and calling their home landline phones. Sometimes you'd even have to speak to a girl's parents. That was not easy. It actually took some guts to do that.

2. The pre-smartphone/pre-mass adoption cell phone era: This was roughly 2000-2008. While the iPhone launched in 2007, it did take some time for it to get some adoption. This was a better era for phones as it addressed some of the deficiencies of landlines yet text messaging wasn't that much of a thing. By 2005-2008, texting was starting to become more popular as some people had Blackberries and Sidekick type phones that were better than flip and candy bar style phones for sending text messages. Voice calling was still viable until the late 2000s for a lot of early stage mating interactions.

3. The entrenched smartphone era: I would call this 2009-present. The cell phone became text messages first. Voice calls have been declining. They have been very much phased out. Younger groups like the ones I was dating in 2009-2012 were among the first to be text first. In my late 20s, I found this to be an adjustment that I never really liked.



Texting has a lot more downsides than upsides. I will acknowledge that the texting stuff can be challenging and that some females feel more connected with it.

As stated in my other post, it was sooo much easier before cell phones. You kids (anyone under 45, LOL) REALLY DO have it harder.

I would take having to talk to a parent ANYDAY over the technological obstacles you have nowadays. All you had to do back then is be polite..."may I speak with Christine please..."

And it is not just having to run text game. The damn phones themselves make opening women harder. Back in my day, when women were everywhere ....sure they may be today, but they are always buried in their phones which makes opening much harder. And internet dating has also made things much harder.

It should be no surprise that seduction communities and forums like this one here coincided with the spread of technology.

 

[SW15]

I would take having to talk to a parent ANYDAY over the technological obstacles you have nowadays. All you had to do back then is be polite..."may I speak with Christine please..."

Good point. In thinking about it now, I would rather call a landline and speak to a parent in waiting for my teenage crush Christine than deal with the nonsense I've had to deal with during the smartphone era.

And it is not just having to run text game. The damn phones themselves make opening women harder. Back in my day, when women were everywhere ....sure they may be today, but they are always buried in their phones which makes opening much harder. And internet dating has also made things much harder.

This is a great point. Opening women in daygame venues is much more difficult with smartphones and headphones/earbuds. Heads buried in phones is a problem but women are now using earbuds/headphones in the parks, on walking/hiking paths, and on the general gym floor and that discourages approaches/makes them more difficult. In nightlife venues, competing with the smartphone is more challenging. In 2004-2006, women had cell phones but they weren't obsessed with them in nightlife venues like they would be in the 2010s-2020s. I also remember going to random college parties in 2001-2004 before turning 21 and cell phones would not cocckblock those approaches either.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

Good point. In thinking about it now, I would rather call a landline and speak to a parent in waiting for my teenage crush Christine than deal with the nonsense I've had to deal with during the smartphone era.



This is a great point. Opening women in daygame venues is much more difficult with smartphones and headphones/earbuds. Heads buried in phones is a problem but women are now using earbuds/headphones in the parks, on walking/hiking paths, and on the general gym floor and that discourages approaches/makes them more difficult. In nightlife venues, competing with the smartphone is more challenging. In 2004-2006, women had cell phones but they weren't obsessed with them in nightlife venues like they would be in the 2010s-2020s. I also remember going to random college parties in 2001-2004 before turning 21 and cell phones would not cocckblock those approaches either.

Yep. This is why we need systems, game, community and men supporting men. Honestly...and this is coming from a 62 year old man, there is a war against good men who want to become pillars of their communities, fathers, husbands. These goals are so very hard in todays world, and that is why so many good men have simply dropped out.

I've seen the devastating effect that modern society has upon men, families, and most importantly children and now that I have retired from academia, I want to do something to turn the tide. As a PhD I can tell you that the traditional academic world (disciplines like psychology) have nothing to offer to solve this problem. Traditional psychology (dominated by the far left) thinks that male and female brains are identical and communication is the solution. Neither is true. What maters is whether or not the woman loves the man. That is what relationships come down to. Disciplines like Anthropological Biology, Evolutionary psychology and Neural biology have proven that there are big gender differences between brains. When we understand how female brains work we can understand how to get them, and keep them in love.

Interestingly, I have found that some of the best material to achieving the above comes from the seduction community combined with an understanding of how evolutionary forces shaped the female brain. The old seduction forums like MASF (I was a member back when all the big names were there) were on to something. I was also influenced by Pook and Anti Dump from this forum.

I developed a system that I used to date very successfully and eventually marry a very high quality woman I am still with 18 years later. I want the same for other men (although many profess to never want to get married).

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Especially before caller ID. Call a gal, let it ring, no answer no problem.

If you call from a landline work phone through the company telephone operating system, it mostly will not give the Caller ID. You can try it out by calling your own phone and see what it says. If it says 'anonymous', you can use it to call your paramour anonymously.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

The damn phones themselves make opening women harder. Back in my day, when women were everywhere ....sure they may be today, but they are always buried in their phones which makes opening much harder.

I had a fun one yesterday. I was at an 'Irish Pub' café in Amsterdam with my cat, sitting at the corner of the bar, next to a group of musicians making Irish folk music.
Halfway down my Guinness, a young woman takes the empty barstool behind me and starts talking, but I can see her also looking at her phone, so I ignore her.
So she says, "Your cat looks so relaxed. Do you always take him with you?" I turn on my barstool and say, "I didn't know you were talking to me. If you want a conversation, better put your phone away." She immediately put her phone away.

If a woman has high interest, she will put her phone away. If she doesn't and she isn't a 'doctor on call', then her interest in having a conversation with you is low.

I don't have conversations with low interest women.

 

[Gamisch]

Yeah. The old Doc Love advice was to only use the phone to arrange dates and disappear otherwise. That would have spared me a lot of trouble with this girl. Although most girls do like to text between dates as it makes them feel connected and moves things along and as they are texting lots of guys then if you don't play along she will simply text someone else and try to build a connection with them.

Yeah there wasn't much sexual tension. She was affectionate and touchy feely on our dates so I guess she felt comfortable with me but it was my job to try and break that physical rapport by breaking boundaries and touching her sexually.

And the timing of my holiday probably didn't help either and probably contributed to things fizzling out.

Probably easier to start fresh. I think I've made far too many mistakes and turning things around would be too much work.

Let's not forget the " holding hands during an entire theater show and only letting go to clap".

Looking back you gotta aks who " benefited " most from this. You ,because you are out in public with a nice looking woman, or her, because...the " emotional security " you offer?

I read between the lines you met her on a dating app..again, old means completely different rules. Gotta move quick when dealing with women from dating apps.

You are not aggressive enough.

 

[SW15]

This is why we need systems, game, community and men supporting men. Honestly...and this is coming from a 62 year old man, there is a war against good men who want to become pillars of their communities, fathers, husbands. These goals are so very hard in todays world, and that is why so many good men have simply dropped out.

I agree with all of this. Few men will naturally be able to figure this out. The guy who gets attractive women in high school or even college is rare. Majority of males struggles through these phases. Many need to make a lot of effort just to get one mediocre girlfriend during these phases. I knew a good looking guy in college who was a dumpster diver to get girlfriends. With some personality, he could have done better than overweight/obese women on campus.

I've seen the devastating effect that modern society has upon men, families, and most importantly children and now that I have retired from academia, I want to do something to turn the tide. As a PhD I can tell you that the traditional academic world (disciplines like psychology) have nothing to offer to solve this problem. Traditional psychology (dominated by the far left) thinks that male and female brains are identical and communication is the solution. Neither is true. What maters is whether or not the woman loves the man. That is what relationships come down to. Disciplines like Anthropological Biology, Evolutionary psychology and Neural biology have proven that there are big gender differences between brains. When we understand how female brains work we can understand how to get them, and keep them in love.

I have found that some of the best material to achieving the above comes from the seduction community combined with an understanding of how evolutionary forces shaped the female brain. The old seduction forums like MASF (I was a member back when all the big names were there) were on to something. I was also influenced by Pook and Anti Dump from this forum.

Academia does not help in seduction.

Most men don't benefit much in terms of seduction by going to psychotherapy. Psychotherapy alone is not going to get you more first dates. Psychotherapy is limited to how it can make you more effective on the swipe apps or with your in-person approaching. Psychotherapy might help with improving with your in-person vibe (personality). Personality matters, but it matters much less than appearance. A lot of men do end up in psychotherapy over a lack of success in their romantic endeavors. For a man struggling to get first dates and get laid, psychotherapy will rarely help much with that. It can help more with addressing traumas and that can help as a relationship matures.

MASF was influential and biggest when I was in high school (1997-2001) and college (2001-2005). I wasn't involved in it. Strauss' "The Game" was published in September 2005, not long after I graduated college. When MASF was biggest, I was just opening my eyes (college) to the world of attraction and seduction. As a blue pill beta male in high school, I took a big beating. The top girls (pretty cheer babes) were not interested in me in high school and that was very upsetting to me at the time. In college, I started to delve into pickup and relationship content and de-construct and re-construct myself. That was a tough adjustment. I had to kill the nice guy beta male who was raised primarily by his mom.

Pook and Anti Dump were two great forum participants. I have read parts of the Book of Pook and read their comments in older threads here.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

I had a fun one yesterday. I was at an 'Irish Pub' café in Amsterdam with my cat, sitting at the corner of the bar, next to a group of musicians making Irish folk music.
Halfway down my Guinness, a young woman takes the empty barstool behind me and starts talking, but I can see her also looking at her phone, so I ignore her.
So she says, "Your cat looks so relaxed. Do you always take him with you?" I turn on my barstool and say, "I didn't know you were talking to me. If you want a conversation, better put your phone away." She immediately put her phone away.

If a woman has high interest, she will put her phone away. If she doesn't and she isn't a 'doctor on call', then her interest in having a conversation with you is low.

I don't have conversations with low interest women.

Waitaminute....let me see if I have this straight: You were at an Irish Pub in Amsterdam with your cat....? LOLOL.

But correct you are, only have interested women in your life.

May I ask, what are your relationship goals? I see you are a top contributor here, are you a PUA or someone interested in LTR's?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Waitaminute....let me see if I have this straight: You were at an Irish Pub in Amsterdam with your cat....? LOLOL.

Yes, my therapy cat Klook goes with me pretty much everywhere.

May I ask, what are your relationship goals?

I'm retired, I live alone with my teenage daughter staying with me during the schoolweek.
I have three lovers who I see mainly on the weekends and during the day when my daughter is in school.
Maybe you assume I joined this forum for relationship advice or something, but I'm not here for that; I'm a suspense fiction author and I research the 'Manosphere' for a character I'm writing.

I see you are a top contributor here, are you a PUA or someone interested in LTR's?

Neither.
I'm a professional writer, so writing here is mostly for my own entertainment, although I don't mind imparting some life experience if it might benefit members here. Like I said, I study the 'Manosphere' (Intel, PUA, MGTOW), but while I've given seminars and workshops in assertiveness and communication, I'm not interested in PUA workshops. As far as LTRs, I've been in an LTR/Marriage for sixteen years (hence the teenage children), but at heart I'm an Einzelgänger, so I'm only interested in lovers, not life partners.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

I agree with all of this. Few men will naturally be able to figure this out. The guy who gets attractive women in high school or even college is rare. Majority of males struggles through these phases. Many need to make a lot of effort just to get one mediocre girlfriend during these phases. I knew a good looking guy in college who was a dumpster diver to get girlfriends. With some personality, he could have done better than overweight/obese women on campus.



Academia does not help in seduction.

Most men don't benefit much in terms of seduction by going to psychotherapy. Psychotherapy alone is not going to get you more first dates. Psychotherapy is limited to how it can make you more effective on the swipe apps or with your in-person approaching. Psychotherapy might help with improving with your in-person vibe (personality). Personality matters, but it matters much less than appearance. A lot of men do end up in psychotherapy over a lack of success in their romantic endeavors. For a man struggling to get first dates and get laid, psychotherapy will rarely help much with that. It can help more with addressing traumas and that can help as a relationship matures.

MASF was influential and biggest when I was in high school (1997-2001) and college (2001-2005). I wasn't involved in it. Strauss' "The Game" was published in September 2005, not long after I graduated college. When MASF was biggest, I was just opening my eyes (college) to the world of attraction and seduction. As a blue pill beta male in high school, I took a big beating. The top girls (pretty cheer babes) were not interested in me in high school and that was very upsetting to me at the time. In college, I started to delve into pickup and relationship content and de-construct and re-construct myself. That was a tough adjustment. I had to kill the nice guy beta male who was raised primarily by his mom.

Pook and Anti Dump were two great forum participants. I have read parts of the Book of Pook and read their comments in older threads here.

You are a very thoughtful guy....I am really glad to have met you. Here are some comments upon your post.

When I was young, I actually was naturally Alpha and fairly naturally good with women. I often had the hottest GF around. I was a bad boy...wrestled in high school and became a nasty bar room brawler. I eventually did MMA for 17 years and trained with the best (and was nationally ranked).

However at one point in my life I was also a total alcoholic/drug addict loser. By my mid 20's I was using every drug possible and drinking 15 beers a day. I eventually joined AA (went for more than 20 years) and got sober. Have not had a drink in 35 years. That was around the time my first wife divorced me. So check this out: Getting sober I had to change EVERYTHING about me. I became the classic nice guy/people pleaser/Beta male. 12 step programs and therapy will do that. They are GREAT for that purpose...but TERRIBLE for seduction. And guess what? I became a TOTAL loser with women. I was confused to say the least.

That is when (nearly 26 years ago) I set out to systematically study how to get good with women. I learned to take the useful characteristics of the bad boy (aloofness, emotional imperviousness, etc.) and get rid of the negative (a big one is constantly fighting, losing my temper). As mentioned in other posts, I first turned to traditional relationship material (John Gray was the first) and found it useless. Gray and everyone like him claim communication is paramount in relationships...it is not (what counts is the degree to which a woman loves a man). That is when I got into Evolutionary Biology, Evolutionary Anthropology, Neural Biology, and eventually the seduction community.

I was pretty active on MASF...I was just about to be voted from PUA to PUG but my (now wife) stalked me there, printed out 36 pages of me field reporting banging her and my other women, so I had to get off, LOL.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Waitaminute....let me see if I have this straight: You were at an Irish Pub in Amsterdam with your cat....? LOLOL.

But correct you are, only have interested women in your life.

May I ask, what are your relationship goals? I see you are a top contributor here, are you a PUA or someone interested in LTR's?

You see animals everywhere in places in Europe. It's kinda crazy actually.

Literally had a cat running around indoors in the hotel lobby in Rotterdam

 

[Dr_jitsu]

View attachment 13086

Yes, my therapy cat Klook goes with me pretty much everywhere.


I'm retired, I live alone with my teenage daughter staying with me during the schoolweek.
I have three lovers who I see mainly on the weekends and during the day when my daughter is in school.
Maybe you assume I joined this forum for relationship advice or something, but I'm not here for that; I'm a suspense fiction author and I research the 'Manosphere' for a character I'm writing.


Neither.
I'm a professional writer, so writing here is mostly for my own entertainment, although I don't mind imparting some life experience if it might benefit members here. Like I said, I study the 'Manosphere' (Intel, PUA, MGTOW), but while I've given seminars and workshops in assertiveness and communication, I'm not interested in PUA workshops. As far as LTRs, I've been in an LTR/Marriage for sixteen years (hence the teenage children), but at heart I'm an Einzelgänger, so I'm only interested in lovers, not life partners.

Absolutely Awesome! I have an offer for you: I am a retired PhD who just "finished" a book on seduction and relationships. The problem is, I need an editor (I did about 5 myself but no external reader). Traditional academics are incredibly far left and would automatically hate my work out of the gate, so it is hard to find editors. I need someone from the seduction community.

Would you be interested in swapping edits? I am not talking heavy line by line, just casual overall readings.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

You see animals everywhere in places in Europe. It's kinda crazy actually.

Literally had a cat running around indoors in the hotel lobby in Rotterdam

I have a hyper dog that would drive everyone crazy.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I have a hyper dog that would drive everyone crazy.

I think this was actually the hotel's pet cat...it seemed pretty comfy in there and the front desk people didn't bat an eye when they saw it.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Would you be interested in swapping edits? I am not talking heavy line by line, just casual overall readings.

Sure, we can continue over PM.

Literally had a cat running around indoors in the hotel lobby in Rotterdam

Most 'HORECA' établissements employ cats to keep the vermin out of the kitchen.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I think this was actually the hotel's pet cat...it seemed pretty comfy in there and the front desk people didn't bat an eye when they saw it.

That cat was working. He's more like an employee. Pest Control.

 

[SW15]

So check this out: Getting sober I had to change EVERYTHING about me. I became the classic nice guy/people pleaser/Beta male. 12 step programs and therapy will do that. They are GREAT for that purpose...but TERRIBLE for seduction. And guess what? I became a TOTAL loser with women. I was confused to say the least.

I don't have experience with 12 step programs but do have experience psychotherapy.

I didn't think standard Cognitive Behavioral Therapy could make a man more of a beta male than he already was entering therapy.

When a man goes into standard Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, his PhD therapist or MA counselor is likely either a beta male, heterosexual female, or lesbian female. Alpha/sigma type heterosexual males are typically not psychotherapists. If a man has a PhD beta male or heterosexual female as his psychotherapist, he/she is not going to fix his early stage seduction problems. In many cases, a man entering therapy has early stage seduction issues. The psychotherapist may be able to fix other issues than the man likely has and that might have value, but fixing initial attraction/seduction problems is not going to happen. The man is going to need to find a pickup artist or someone else good with women to help him. Perhaps he could read a book or watch videos on that.

 

[Solomon]

Yeah she hasn't texted me in over a week but I am sure during that period there have been other guys she has been texting.

It is quite common on dating apps for girls to suddenly stop responding because they aren't feeling the conversation or someone else comes along that gets their attention. Although more usual before exchanging numbers/meeting. But I guess the same principle applies.

I'm gonna disagree with the masses here saying you did something wrong with not banging her, I'm only speaking for myself but women on OLD are very whimsical and flakey. You can bang a chick 2 hours straight, make her orgasm several times and all that and she can still ghost you, or she got ASD. Who knows? typically if a girl stops responding or goes from hot to cold your princess is in another castle. Not to sound like a broken record but this is why I spin plates. It takes away the neediness when you have other women that you're dealing with. Heck it will even to get to a point where women will get mad at you because you are not spending enough time with them or texting them enough

Personally I would opt for option B but I wouldn't hold my breath if I was you.