FR: Finally landed myself a date after 2 months of straight flaking.

[Dryden]

Here's an idea to soften a forcing approach.

You:

"I was fantasizing the other day about pinning your arms behind your back [gauge her response].. like this [do it]". See how she responds. She will probably just accept it.

"Then I would [do whatever] like this... [gauge her response again] [do it]".

And so on. After you've done 2 or 3 of those moves. You give it a break. See how she responds. See if it turns her on. Pin those arms rough like she likes it. Then after you give it a pause. You say "I would also...", and this time don't pin her arms behind her back while she's sitting, but put her on her belly and pin her arms on her back, and then do something that is not as threatening at that point - the only thing you really can do is grab her p6ssy real strong from outside her clothes and hold that for as long as you like. Then put her arms above her head and take off her long sleeve.

Just an idea.

Another idea:

Take those makeout breaks like you like to do, you know, when she gets pissed. When she gets pissed, it's because she wants more. Her wanting more is good. Her wanting more leads to her getting undressed.

So next time, just lean back, stare at her, and then tell her to come to you. Tell her to come and kiss you. Lead her.

 

[backbreaker]

resist the urge to try too hard. she clearly likes you. resist the urge to try to up her interet through texts since you met her **** that, give her time to marinate on the great time she had. not too much time but give her space, do your thing for a few days. come up with something relaly fun to do and call her up in 1-2 days and ask her to do it with you. it's that simple.

the most important thing si to let her think about you. using the gym analogy you don't get bigger in the gym you get bigger when you are sleeping from when you come back from the gym. let the girl sleep.

her letting you toss her around like a rag doll shows that you have very little to worry about as far as interest. she passed the flake stage

 

[Desdinova]

10:08 Seriously tho you and I are making some delicious food. Don't be a poohead and tell me you can't. I will see you sunday
10:10 I'll see what I can do.

(ok, it's way too obvious now that she is just trying to put up a facade of being hard to get)

10:11 You mispelled "yes sageproduct, see you sunday. Oh and you're really hot"
10:13 Must have been a typo.
10:13 No, don't blame yourself. Autocorrect can be a b1tch
10:15 You know, you're right.

Bwahahahaha!!!! You called her a "poohead" :crackup:

And I'm going to steal your "mispelled" joke. That's fvcking golden.

Good work!

 

[sageproduct]

Thanks guys.

Your text game is getting better. Still, you're a little wordy...try combining some of those thoughts.

Yes, I do have a habit of being wordy. It's kind of how I am - no matter who I'm texting, friends, family, business...I tend to be wordy. To me, I usually like typing out a wordy text to a friend if I feel it perfects the delivery of a joke...but when it comes to girls it is indeed a habit I should start kicking.

I've been texting the girl from NYE (who lives a state away), and our conversations are getting very explicit sexually. However, I do notice how her sending me long texts automatically give the impression that she's chasing. Wasn't til then that I truly realized how sending lengthy texts can be damaging, as funny as I may think I am.

@NewAndImproved

Thanks.

@Dryden

Lol I sure am intrigued by her dark side. I've always wanted to delve into the innermost depths of a girl and bring out her deepest secrets. I have quite a dark and twisted side myself that is filled with hatred, but it's been buried for a little while now. I know that aspect of me is still there somewhere, and it'd be kind of cool to share it with someone and learn more about it/myself.

@Robyn

Thx man. Lol read the thread you posted, and it wasn't even that bad. Flop for sure, but not anywhere close to the depths of omega-AFC-dom haha

ooo and Dryden about p1ssing her off by teasing her...think I'm gonna do that. Since she was resistant to me even taking her long sleeve shirt off, escalation is probably going to proceed slowly unless I really, really step it up. Gonna do my best to tease her. And man, I've only just realized how much self-control it takes to tease a girl and not just go all out alpha dog on her

@BB

Yes just the sheer number of numbers->flakes I've gotten in the last two months makes this girl's behavior stick out very obviously as interest and not disinterest.

It's nice, I think I'm starting to make a little progress growing my patience...I used to be all "omg i'm thinking about her right now i should totally send her a text so she knows i'm thinking about her, she would definitely appreciate that"

Whereas these past couple days...she's been fleeting in and out of my mind several times, and I get good feelings when I think about her. It doesn't really tempt me to contact her though, because 1) my mind immediately tells me "well she doesn't need to know that you're thinking about her, at least not this much" and 2) I think I'm finally developing a bit of a practical DJ instinct that tells me "dude there's no reason to contact her, it wouldn't accomplish anything"

AFC me did not text the girl all the time because he necessarily liked and appreciated her that much. AFC me was so unsure of his desirability as a man (and even a person sometimes) that it was the attention, any sign of affection, and validation, that he required on almost a daily basis.

@Des

Glad you liked it

 

[sageproduct]

Round 2 tomorrow night.

Quick recap: 1st date was last Sunday, made out at my place, I went silent until Tuesday, short text convo to make plans for this Sunday, went silent.

Today I called her to work out the details for tomorrow. No answer, she must REALLY hate talking on the phone. Didn't leave a vm, instead I texted her right after:

1:26pm No vm this time
1:32 Why not?
1:33 Cuz they're precious. How was your week wifey?
1:36 Hmm. Long. Didn't get outside much.
1:37 So you want to eat dinner with me outside tomorrow?!

(joking, it's fwcking freezing here)

1:42 That does sound like fun.
1:46 Haha
1:46 Why don't you hop on the [bus #] out to [my neighborhood] tomorrow around 7, then I'll show you around town then we'll have a cook-off
1:50 Sounds good.
1:53 Yeah I'll let you know which stop to get off at. And meet you there, fending off the hoodlums
2:05 I would appreciate that!



Really glad I'm beginning to see how to develop the right frame for relationship management here, thanks guys. It all makes so much fwcking sense now - how to proceed in the various stages of dating. And it makes all the dynamics of my previous 1 month fling w/oneitis SO OBVIOUS when it was all way over my head then.

Today I realized just how brainwashed I have been - when I contacted her, I was almost going to apologize for not contacting her for 4 days, and I was even half-expecting her to react negatively to me going ghost for 4 days and cancelling our date as a result of it.

Misconceptions must be removed.

I also realized that because I've dealt with SO MANY rejections and flakes, that I can be patient as a motherfwcker if I really apply myself to it.

Also, interesting to note is that I've found that by not talking to this girl all week, my OWN interest level in her has increased because of it. Since I'm not getting constant attention and feedback from her, it made me reminisce more about our first date and look forward to our date that much more. But before you can say one-itis, I'm still approaching, couple #'s this week (that are going nowhere, but whatever), and I'm going to daygame some tomorrow before the date.

 

[sageproduct]

FR: Second date. hm.......

Second date last night.

So although I didn't make any big blunders or anything, I just have this intuitive feeling that I lost a bit of frame...like I feel like my game was tight the first date, then a little off yesterday.

She takes the bus and meets me at the grocery store after I'm done shopping, just before 8. Takes 10/15 min to walk home from there, linking arms as it's really slippery and several times she slips, and I hold on to her to keep her from falling. Goddamn her hair smells good that sh1t is intoxicating me already.

We arrive at my place, put the groceries away, and start cooking some salmon and boiling veggies. I put on some jazz and tell her what to do, not a whole lot of conversation. I briefly asked about her week, she didn't really go into details and I didn't really say anything about my week even though I did a bunch of interesting things (auditioned for my school's fashion show lol, that was new for me, went to a magic:the gathering tournament for the first time)

Simple dinner, doesn't take longer than 30-45 min to cook. I'm already feeling cheesy for putting on jazz put she doesn't seem to mind. I light the candles and tell her how I usually light them and turn off the lights when I eat by myself (seriously, i do that lol) but said I wouldn't do that cuz it would be "too gay". Maybe I should have, idk. I just hate with a passion everything that is cliche romance.

I move a chair so that we're on the same side of my table, quietly dining. Earlier I went in for a kiss but pulled back at the last moment to try to build up suspense. Didn't really seem to accomplish anything.



Halfway through eating, all of a sudden I move in to kiss her. She laughs and is kind of like wtf. I go "I can't hold back anymore", drag her out of her seat and bring her to my living room and she's like "but i'm hungry! you're not gonna let me eat!" "nope. we'll eat later"

I make out with her for a bit, then carry her over to my bedroom and toss her on my bed. We make out for a while, but for some reason it's not as intense as I'd hoped it would be. It kind of occurred to me then that to build up sexual tension and suspense, it takes a little while, like more than an hour maybe, unless you really know what you're doing, which I don't.

While we were cooking she kind of rolled her eyes like she does sometimes when she doesn't really connect with something I'm saying or for some other reason I don't know about so I was like "You know what, every time you do that, I'm going to pinch you on the nose." A few times while we're making out I catch her doing that so I pinch her and she laughs hysterically every time and goes "I wasn't doing it!! I promise!!!"

I get my own shirt off, but she resists every time I try to move her LONG SLEEVES out of the way. Eventually I go "hey let's go back and finish dinner" so we do.

I suddenly realize we've barely made any conversation..which she seems to be ok with but I want to strengthen our connection. I say "hey let's watch a movie I don't really give a sh1t about so we can talk and stuff", I put on this comedy flick on netflix that looks sh1tty. Turns out that as sh1tty as it is, it was really interesting and engaging and kind of moody. We both get into it and mostly just watch it. The whole time I'm constantly touching her, brushing her arms, hips, etc. and as it goes on she cuddles closer and closer into me.

Finally the movie's over and we make out. Much better this time. Bring her to my bed again, now she's pressing her crotch up at me again like last time.


But, EVERY time I tried to get her LONG SLEEVE shirt off she'd shake her head and push my arms away. I don't really react to it, I've read about the PUA tactic of freezing out but didn't really think much about trying it.

I was down to just my boxers and socks, she was still fully dressed lol.



NOW THE WTF PART

So I'm playing around with her, finding where/how she reacts to different things...at one point I slip her shirt sleeve down to expose her shoulder and lightly bite it...she reacts VERY positively and breathes much harder. I'm like ok, so I bite a little harder...she gets even more into it. I keep biting harder and harder, until I'm biting pretty damn hard and she's wildly pushing her vag into me with all her strength and seems like she's heading for the top...Sh1t I was literally scared if I bit any harder I would bite out a chunk of her flesh.

She's really intensely into it, I try to pleasure her w/dry humping..(does she ***? idk, i hope lol) once things calm down, I let go with my teeth and look at her shoulder...


WHAT THE FWCK

I'm shocked. The part I bit looks like a mangled piece of flesh that's turned pure white. I lightly feel it and it's scarily disgusting. I go "holy sh1t", but she shows no signs of pain, just looks peaceful, says "you were the one who did it". I go "are you ok" and she smiles and says she's totally fine. Later I look at it again, and it's black and blue. I'm really worried...

but we keep going. This actually intrigues me, so I tell her to bite me, but she says she doesn't want to do that yet.

Gotta go to class now but that's the gist of the night. We spent some time cuddling on the couch afterward, finally got into some deeper conversation. Goddamn I really want to open this book up. She had to go home, didn't want to leave, stayed til about 1...also told me

"From now on I have to sleep with the kids...so I can't do night-time stuff anymore"

I check her shoulder later and it looks normal again. I try to tell her I was really worried about hurting her and we need a way for her to tell me to stop...but she totally diffuses me and says "Oh no don't worry if you're hurting me I'll stop you"

Oh yeah and she never seems to get tired of making out. Every girl I've made out with at my place (justl ike 2 or 3 lol) eventually kind of wants to stop..not her tho



PLUS: play from now..go silent til Wednesday, then that day text her "I have a surprise for you" then take her out for just an hour or so for a quick meal or somethin and do not try to bring her home, then don't see her again for about another week

 

[BeDJ]

The move you pulled during dinner was like going fυck it and sprinting across a minefield, trying to outrun the explosions. Making bold moves like that are good, but only with right timing. You have to build up suspense throughout the entire night so things happen 'naturally.'. Good opportunities could have been in the kitchen when you guys were cooking. Just smell her hair and telling it smells nice, then walk off. Another time stand in back of her with you hands on your hips and nibble her ear. It's carefully maneuvering your way through the minefield. The reason it was not as intense as it would be was because you didn't build the intensity. If you didn't feel it, imagine what she feels.

Escalating should have been done during the movie. A good move would be to gently squeeze the sides of her neck and then transitioning to a two handed massage. Have her sit on you facing the screen and give her a little more. Occasionally small her hair, nibble her neck, shoulders, run your finger along her sides. During the moment, she won't care if you massage her back under her shirt, just don't take it off yet. Have her turn around so she is straddling you, keep doing what you are doing. If she begin to heavily thrust you, you're in.

I was down to just my boxers and socks, she was still fully dressed lol.

What are you fυcking doing man?

"From now on I have to sleep with the kids...so I can't do night-time stuff anymore"

That's a wrap, drop her pronto.


Is she a single mom?

 

[sageproduct]

The move you pulled during dinner was like going fυck it and sprinting across a minefield, trying to outrun the explosions. Making bold moves like that are good, but only with right timing. You have to build up suspense throughout the entire night so things happen 'naturally.'.

Yeah, agree. Once again proven that it's usually not good to try to pull off pre-planned routines or actions.

Escalating should have been done during the movie. A good move would be to gently squeeze the sides of her neck and then transitioning to a two handed massage. Have her sit on you facing the screen and give her a little more. Occasionally small her hair, nibble her neck, shoulders, run your finger along her sides. During the moment, she won't care if you massage her back under her shirt, just don't take it off yet. Have her turn around so she is straddling you, keep doing what you are doing. If she begin to heavily thrust you, you're in.

Ah, yes. I tried to get her to sit on top of me this time and last, but she didn't want to. I let the movie distract me.

What are you fυcking doing man?

My pants were off already because I always take them off when I sit on my couch, that's how I am at home so I took them off for the movie. Then we were in my bed, I took my shirt off to try to make her feel more comfortable letting me take hers off but she never would

Is she a single mom?

No, she's temporarily nannying full-time for her relatives

 

[ARrocket]

I was down to just my boxers and socks, she was still fully dressed lol.

HAHAHAHAHA

Yeah, that's weird dude.

Anyway, if I'm not mistaken, there was absolutely zero progress made physically from date 1 to date 2, correct?

Do you play with her tits/vag through her clothes? Try doing that a bit. While you're biting her neck, make sure your hands are active, and just try to make it a natural thing to slip her shirt off. Another thing you can try is guiding her hand onto your c0ck, sometimes that helps.

I agree with what BDJ said, and will add that it sounds like it's time to get a bit more aggressive.

 

[sageproduct]

Yeah, actually physical progress went BACKWARD in a sense from date 1 to date 2, since on date 1 I eventually was able to get her long sleeve shirt off (she still had a short sleeve shirt on).

I did not give up lol, I kept trying different things. Used everything I knew, like vindicarlo escalation ladder (lifted her shirt up so our bellies were touching). Every time I reached up her shirt she'd grab my arms, sometimes I'd even move her arms out of the way, pin them down, then try again lol.

I noticed she was quicker to resist me actually this time than last. Seemed like last time she let my hands explore under her shirt freely, where this time as soon as my paws were in there shed try to stop me.

Touching on vag - none with hands, but lots and lots of rubbing, humping w/my leg/hip/belly on her area.

Touching on boobs - actually I did a LOT of this. I started out lightly grazing her boobs..she'd always let me do it a little bit then take my hands away. When I managed to lift her shirt up and did this she was very resistant and would pull her shirt back down. Then I'd pull it up again and continue lol.

There were also a few spots on her midsection where if I lightly grazed them/blew on them/licked them she'd laugh hysterically like she was being tickled then push me away as hard as she could, then I would move her arms out of the way and keep doing it despite her resistance. To me it felt quite rape-y but I know I did not disrespect her.

Later on as we were getting tease-y with each other I'd straightup put my hand on her boob, then if she didn't move it right away I'd give it a squeeze. She would always laugh and move my hand away immediately.

At the end when we were just chillin on the couch before she left, I kept putting my hand on her boob, she kept pulling it away, then I'd bring it back, she's giggling the whole time..

Her: OMG you're like a 4 year old
Me: 4 year olds grope your boobs?
Her: no, they don't listen when you tell them to stop...

Legal disclaimer: all of the sexual acts described by sageproduct in all posts are purely fictional and are NOT real life events. Sageproduct has never sexually assaulted a woman and never will.

 

[dap]

Great job sage, you've made a lot of progress! You are doing a lot of stuff right, and I basically agree with the others that you should be less wordy in your txts and go for the gold next time she's over. Escalate, escalate, escalate. When you're in bed making out with her next time, squeeze her breasts for a bit, then pull back, look right at her, and bluntly say: "Let's get that shirt off." Then play with them funbags. Do this early on show she understands that if she wants more she's gonna have to play by the rules. In fact, maybe even do this before going back to your room (while on the couch, etc).

Edit: What does this girl look like? Is she hot? (just curious).

 

[sageproduct]

Great job sage, you've made a lot of progress! You are doing a lot of stuff right, and I basically agree with the others that you should be less wordy in your txts and go for the gold next time she's over. Escalate, escalate, escalate. When you're in bed making out with her next time, squeeze her breasts for a bit, then pull back, look right at her, and bluntly say: "Let's get that shirt off." Then play with them funbags. Do this early on show she understands that if she wants more she's gonna have to play by the rules. In fact, maybe even do this before going back to your room (while on the couch, etc).

Edit: What does this girl look like? Is she hot? (just curious).

Thx man. She's actually pretty cute, she just would probably go unnoticed in general out of not dressing up and not really smiling often and stuff. When I first approached her I didn't realize how sexy she actually is. Redhead w/lots of freckles, which is fwcking adorable. Good body, like 5'8, athletic and fit, really flexible. I hate rating girls w/numbers but you guys would probably give her a 6 or 7

 

[NewAndImproved]

I think you're doing fine, overall. Being in your boxers why she's fully-clothed isn't a good look, though.

I'd say your goal now should be to do things that you enjoy, not just things you think she likes.

By this I mean -- Do you really like bitting her?

Or did you just do it because you think that's what she likes??

If you truly do like that stuff, you need to be congruent with that. Being (overly) concerned about how she felt afterwards didn't ring true to that.

Next time I think you just need to play it cool. Don't immediately go for the makeout. Don't immediately do a lot of kino period. Let her come to you. And get her clothes off!

 

[ARrocket]

Don't immediately go for the makeout. Don't immediately do a lot of kino period. Let her come to you. And get her clothes off!

Oh yeah, I meant to include something about that too

 

[Masculinity]

Do you have a pic of the girl? I'm curious to see her. You can PM me to me if you don't want to post it.

 

[sageproduct]

Do you have a pic of the girl? I'm curious to see her. You can PM me to me if you don't want to post it.

I'm strongly against posting pictures of girls I'm seeing. But I suppose PM is fine, so I sent you one

@New Well, it was fun biting her just seeing how much she liked it...and it was something I'd never done before so I don't really know. But in regards to your point, it's not like it was something I hated doing but did just for her. I just freaked out a bit afterward because her skin looked REALLY fwcked up and it shocked me.

 

[Mr. Bond]

I just had a lightbulb go off.

This may be one of those chicks who wants to be fvcking ravaged. She LOVED being bitten hard. That's rough sh!t. Maybe she wants you to force her clothes off. Ever think of that?

Obviously this comes with the disclaimer that you need to know the difference between light resistance and scared/no-means-no/heavy resistance. I've had girls push me away only for me to force them to do what I want, and they fvcking loved it.

Again, not advocating rape here. Just seems like she wants it rough.

 

[sageproduct]

I just had a lightbulb go off.

This may be one of those chicks who wants to be fvcking ravaged. She LOVED being bitten hard. That's rough sh!t. Maybe she wants you to force her clothes off. Ever think of that?

Obviously this comes with the disclaimer that you need to know the difference between light resistance and scared/no-means-no/heavy resistance. I've had girls push me away only for me to force them to do what I want, and they fvcking loved it.

Again, not advocating rape here. Just seems like she wants it rough.

Thought about it a lot actually. I tried different ways of getting her shirt off - slowly, gradually, even sneakily at times, fast, sudden, and forceful at other times. She resisted no matter what I did.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Today I called her to work out the details for tomorrow. No answer, she must REALLY hate talking on the phone. Didn't leave a vm, instead I texted her right after:

1:26pm No vm this time
1:32 Why not?
1:33 Cuz they're precious. How was your week wifey?

And this, my friend, is where you f--ked up: by calling her "wifey."

You don't start giving a girl you just met pet names of any kind, especially ones indicating you're already thinking about her in a gf/wife/marriage/commitment type of way. It adds too much pressure to the situation in her mind, and can actually cause her attraction to you to DECREASE. In essence, any mystery she had about your feelings towards her went right out the window when you said this, and women NEED to be somewhat in the dark about your feelings for them when you first start dating. Even if she knows you want sex from her - after all, every guy does - the confusion in her brain between if you just want sex from her or something more will keep you in the game LONGER, and allow you to progress FURTHER, than if you start blabbering words or phrases that let her know she's already got the upper hand.

With that said: all she told you was she can't do any night stuff. Fine, call her bluff: set up a lunch date in the afternoon, then have her come by your house until the evening time. Lunch takes an hour or less, which would put you back at your place at 1 or 2 PM - plenty of time for the both of you to mess around before she leaves for the evening to sleep with the kids :crackup: If she's making up excuses at that point, she's either not interested, or is one of those girls that actually likes to take it slow.

One piece of advice I will give - and it's something that works for me very well - is not to come on so strongly. I have found in my experience that women are usually so shocked that I'm not being extra-grabby like all the other dudes they've dated, that THEY end up being the ones doing the more aggressive stuff. Combine that with the "give and take" method (make out with her, then stop, then feel on her for a bit, then stop, then heavy petting, then get up to get a drink, then... you get the idea), and she should be trying to rip your clothes off at some point.

 

[Wolfbones]

And this, my friend, is where you f--ked up: by calling her "wifey."

I partly agree with you, but how has he ****ed up? He's still seeing her, isn't he? So far he did good. Sure it was risky to say, but nonetheless, it didn't stop her from seeing him.
Sage, I recommend you not to call a girl you just met your wifey.