Feminist reaction to sosuave

[Shiftkey]

I hear ya...Allen needs to do with discussion of feminism and men's rights stuff what he did with politics...not allowed. The other option would be to provide a separate forum for only men's rights stuff and forbid it from seeping over into the rest of the forum. The only problem with that is it will still negatively influence the new members who are licking their wounds and are most vulnerable to get sucked into the negativity of the issue.

Bottom line...you can guide boys to become men without instilling a hatred of women in the process. I think it is in the best interest of the site to just ban all the feminist stuff and then enforce it rigidly until those who only are interested in that stuff find another place to post.

Well I'm not so sure that's the answer either. I do think it should be banned in forums other than Anything Else, but I don't think we should completely ban it (just as I'm against the ban on politics and religion). What we SHOULD ban is the hatred. You can discuss men's rights and feminism intellectually without the woman bashing that goes on here.

My ideal arrangement for this site is to allow all discussion in Anything Else, increase the number of moderators, and censor the individual replies that cause the flame wars without locking the entire thread or pulling out a blanket ban. If a member continually starts flame wars, they're banned. (that and take away the silly language filter, but that's another topic)

Des, are you bring this up with Allen?

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Well said Wyldfire and SStype.

I've found that in many places on this forum, EVEN in the Mature Man section, there seems to be either an inability or an unwillingness for at least SOME guys to champion anything remotely "balanced" in terms of an expressed viewpoint.

There seems to be a testosterone-crazed desire to promote and espouse only the most EXTREME viewpoints towards women, AND men, for that matter. In the minds of far too many, a woman is either just a recepticle for ejaculate or a heartless, feminazi, castrating bytch. And a "man" is either a stone-cold, emotionless ****ksman, or he's a spineless, wimpy AFC.

Now I expect this type of nearsighted view expressed on the High School Forum. And I've grown to accept it on the general Discussion Forum as well. But when I see it happen far too often on the Mature Man Forum, I can only shake my head in disappointment.

Has YEARS of going on multiple boot camps, sarging 100 women, and learning about how to project "sexual state" brought some of us ONLY these few baby steps forward on the road to becoming more mature men? LOL Sad...

To some on here, there IS no middle ground between extreme stances. And this is very unfortunate, because to embrace such a polarized mindset is to shut off all gateways into more expansive thinking.

People who feel this way are guilty of what I call HORIZONTAL THINKING. Why? Because if it's an idea that asks them to stretch beyond their fatalistic, pessimistic, and animalistic thinking towards the nature of male/female interactions---they CAN'T do it. They simply REFUSE to even try to escalate, elevate, and relevate from the norm.

And it is just this refusal to think deeper, to reach higher, and to move further forward that stops them from advancing in their understanding of what makes for a healthy male/female relationship.

Most people are so used to consuming and regurgitating the few "truths" that they THINK they know that they never admit to themselves that there is SO MUCH more for them to learn about----EVERYTHING.

In other words, Sosuave would be a lot better off if people were more self-reflective and less reactionary. Yes, Sosuave would be better off if people were focused on making worthwhile contributions MORE, and trying to come off like psuedo intellectual, wannabe "alpha", internet, tough guys LESS.

March on.

 

[A-Unit]

Re;

Path 1

We can fight and push against Feminism. Attempt to educate all the uneducated and ignorant folks, and MAYBE, just MAYBE, they listen and we hit critical mass AND things change. And maybe they don't? Yes, we'd be doing a CIVIC duty, but who's to say what's right and what's wrong? Again, legislating morality means other's can legislate YOUR morality, and if you walk around parading the FEMINISM is wrong and there's some UNDERGROUND conspiracy as MAKOW suggests there is, then they, being the feminists and grand designers will feel more victimized AND justified. The pushing AGAINST them and making them feel like victims will simply be, 'what they want.' See! They're the bad guys, look what they're doing! They want our rights!

This takes ALOT of focus away from other things in life. And if you break life down into 24 hours, then what are you spending it on and what are YOU not spending it on?

Path 2

You can focus SOLELY on masculinity, being a better man, being a better DJ, what have you. Focus on FINDING the women who don't find feminism appealing (there are groups out there dedicated to downing FEMINISM). FOCUS on enforcing and educating on POSITIVE life issues. Mother Theresa EMPHASIZED peace, not war. You can try to spread peace, or get better at waging war, but you can't do both, and being better at war, only brings MORE war as people see you as a threat; observe all the countries trying to arm themselves right now. Instead of emphasizing peace, they're emphasizing armament, and in turn, now we, the USA, are the world police. TEAM AMERICA!

How much energy has this topic consumed in trying to what...?

Convince guys Wyldfire is a troll?
That Feminism IS to blame and should be something all men take up against?
That it's real and should be stricken from the planet?

I'm not sure of what the position is, and what the intended outcome is.

What I'm pointing out is, how people get dragged down by life, or rise up. Right now, people are wallowing in the crap.

How many guys get blown up speaking to women who are taken, d-bags, or just flakes? They wallow in the misery of that 1 or 2 defeats, rather than press onward for success, getting closer to the goal they desire.

If you were to visualize it on a linear path, stopping to OBSERVE what feminism might be (although we all know it's morphed into something else), doesn't get us CLOSER to what anyone wants, at least those here, who have a limited understanding of it. Now, if you work TOWARD some goal, toward building and spreading and fostering something, that linear path TOWARD a better end IS possible. However, it's not possible so long as you STAY put and say..."Gee this sucks, I don't want to be here." Well, duh, you stopped moving. If you don't want this, WHAT do you want? Are you working toward getting it?

Good example from Equilibrium. Anyone who hasn't seen the movie, it's essentially a Matrix-Type movie, where all human emotion is eradicated through the use of a daily injection. It keeps people from warring with each other, supposedly. All art is banned. Human touching is outlawed. No sex is allowed. Anything remotely close to emotion is illegal, and people report each other. That is until Christian Bale misses his daily dose, and slowly starts to UNWIND from his stupor.

During a discussion with his partner, Sean Bean, Bale feels like there will be an 'end' and that there's no war. What he fails to realize is, that the very disease they sought to get rid of is now known as the STATE, or the EMPIRE. They do the killing. They burn pieces of art and books and poetry. The very monster they seek to eradicate and dispell HAS become the state. So while they preach NO EMOTION, NO KILLING, NO VIOLENCE, the state that preaches this out the side of one of their mouths, is committing the atrocities they seek to prevent.

Doing what is suggested here is turning into the MONSTER they vilify.
Wouldn't we be LOWERING ourselves just to fight something we KNOW to be bogus?
Isn't embracing the attitude of F* feminists, accurately proving their point?

I fail to see how a movement AGAINST an idea or people can successfully go anywhere. GOOD or EVIL is a matter of perspective and of who writes history.

I would say those bitter males who HATE a certain sect of women are precisely the monsters they warn against, because those monsters exhibit the traits of what they stand against, so it only reinforces and strengthens their position.

A-Unit

 

[Desdinova]

The guys that come here to do those things are getting bogged down in the mire created by all the anti-feminism stuff.

Please take a step into 2007. This is no longer 2005 - 2006 when Pook came here and wrote his "inspiring" anti-feminism posts which caused everyone else to jump onto the feminist-hating bandwagon. The wave has come and gone. I see a few anti-feminist posts on here, but I wouldn't say that people are getting "bogged down" with it. If I've noticed anything, you're the one who usually re-ignites the anti-feminist discussion.

Des, are you bring this up with Allen?

Why? I don't see it currently being a problem on the forum that creates multiple threads where members flame the hell out of each other, unlike the threads about race and skin color.

 

[wayword]

The Middle Way

^^ Again, there is a Middle Way that lies between both extremes. I myself study both PUA & MRA. They tie together nicely, in fact. One aims at changing your environment, the other at changing yourself. One is more longterm, the other more shortterm. One macro, the other micro. One communal, the other more selfish. Again, I don't see why you must limit yourself to either/or? In fact, I find MRA has greatly increased my inner game, backbone and any fear/anxiety with "feeble" little women now - which crosses over well into PU.

And, I do work HARD at self-improvement and my Game. I am NOT using feminism as an excuse not to open or avoid women.

But, one day if you ever get screwed over by being forced to pay child support for a kid that isn't even biologically YOURS, tell me how your "masculinity" is going to help you then? What are you going to do when your wife falsely accuses you of DV just in order to get child custody in the divorce? Why does seeking fair justice here get labelled as "victimology," "negative" and "hateful?"

MRAs benefit ALL men here, whether you want to pitch in or not. But, I think to be fair, you should contribute a little time and effort for this group cause - since you will reap benefits, regardless. So, I hope we can all, like women, mobilize and organize for our mutual benefit.

 

[Kev07]

I really cannot see how some of you can care so much about feminists.

I'm pretty sure that feminists only make up a small percentage of the female population, and out of that, an even SMALLER percent of population will be females under 30, and of that, a MINISCULE percent of those women will be good looking/dateable.

That feminist preach that OP posted was a funny read, good for some criticism, but I never gave it a second thought.

I'm actually more worried about what if the things taught here gets spread to all the women. I would hate it if I go to women and before I can say anything, they tell me "Are you going to use that DJ stuff?"

That would be lame.

 

[Wyldfire]

Please take a step into 2007. This is no longer 2005 - 2006 when Pook came here and wrote his "inspiring" anti-feminism posts which caused everyone else to jump onto the feminist-hating bandwagon. The wave has come and gone. I see a few anti-feminist posts on here, but I wouldn't say that people are getting "bogged down" with it. If I've noticed anything, you're the one who usually re-ignites the anti-feminist discussion.



Why? I don't see it currently being a problem on the forum that creates multiple threads where members flame the hell out of each other, unlike the threads about race and skin color.

Des...it's far worse than you realize. It really is. There are almost no men on this site taking responsibility for their choices and behavior. There is very little support here. The hate isn't only directed towards women...it's also directed towards each other. It just keeps getting worse and worse and unless something is done soon Allen may as well rename the site to Don Gone Anti-Feminist Site because that's what it's looking like more and more every day. Do a search of the terms "Feminist" and "seduction". There are 20 pages of threads with both terms. If that isn't indicative of a serious problem then I honestly don't know what is. Now that's just posts that distinctly use Feminist, not feminism or men's rights or bashing all women collectively. You can claim there isn't a problem, but to do so would require you to be wearing some very thick blinders.

I know that you don't like much of the ways society has been impacted by feminism. Neither do I. That being said...this isn't the place to focus so much on that...not if the intention really is to help guys become more productive.

 

[Wyldfire]

wayword...unless a couple was married when they have a child, they automatically do paternity tests in the process of determining child support. And even if they were married a man is entitled to ask for a paternity test if he has doubts. Just as it's ignorant for feminists to claim they get paid less than men when affirmative action exists to protect against that it is equally as ignorant for men to claim they are forced to pay child support for a child they didn't help make.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Des...it's far worse than you realize. It really is. There are almost no men on this site taking responsibility for their choices and behavior.....

I'll be the first to agree with you on that Wyld but this forum is no different than the States in general. Most people have an "it ain't my fault/concern/responsibility" attitude and it's just reflected here. It seems rampant probably because it's easier to rant online than out in everyday life.

There's a saying that goes "Never underestimate the power of ignorant people in mass," so although it may be frustrating, how much do you believe you can change? Me? I just take my "surly pill" before logging into the forum and take it for what it's is; nothing more, nothing less. Not everyone is meant to "get it."

 

[Wyldfire]

Yeah...that will work for you and some of the older guys who have been around long enough to know how to weed through the crap. My biggest concern is for the younger guys and teenagers who come here. I have teenagers and they all think they have the world by the balls and know everything. They are more easily swayed by the wrong kinds of influences. Teenage boys are confused enough with their hormones raging out of control and trying to figure out who they are, what they want to do with their lives, etc. The last thing they need or deserve is to come here looking for help with girls and end up buried up to their eyeballs in hatred, negativity and more things to confuse them. They mature and responsible men need to step up to the plate and do their part to make society a better place between men and women instead of a worse place. Perpetuating the anger, hatred and negativity will NOT help anyone. Men will NOT end feminism by REACTING to it. They will only change it by ACTING in a way that leaves feminists with no one to fight with. You don't have to give up your masculinity, manhood or respect to do that...you just need to focus on making yourself a better person and let the nasty, miserable grumpy women stew in their own misery all by themselves. Guys have got to stop being lured down into the sewer, and that's what's happening. Let the feminists wallow in the stank by themselves and they will be the only ones smelling like sheeit.

 

[Bonhomme]

Des...it's far worse than you realize. It really is. There are almost no men on this site taking responsibility for their choices and behavior.

That's too extreme a statement (I say there are too few men on this site taking responsibility for their choices and behavior), but I share your concern. That's the first part of being a man (or woman, as opposed to girl, for that matter).

But that goes for society in general ... Are there not more personal injury lawyers in any US city's phone book than any other service? That's why those of us who have pretty much gotten what we can for ourselves out of this site should stick around and give the newbies the benefit of our experience.

 

[Bonhomme]

I do find it ironic that a movement that originated as an anti-bullsh1t movement has been hijacked by haters and come to perpetuate a hell of a lot of bullsh1t. Could this site be heading down into the same abyss from the opposite direction?

 

[ValleyDJing]

F.ucking pant suit wearing, power tripping, hillary clinton wannabe! :trouble:

 

[Wyldfire]

That's too extreme a statement (I say there are too few men on this site taking responsibility for their choices and behavior), but I share your concern. That's the first part of being a man (or woman, as opposed to girl, for that matter).

But that goes for society in general ... Are there not more personal injury lawyers in any US city's phone book than any other service? That's why those of us who have pretty much gotten what we can for ourselves out of this site should stick around and give the newbies the benefit of our experience.

Yes, society in general lacks the ability or willingness to take responsibility for their choices and behavior. Everything is always someone else's fault. People act as if they have no free will. By playing the blame game a person essentially admits to being weak, a follower, easily manipulated...nothing more than a tool who cannot think or act for themselves. It's so pathetic. Everyone wants something for nothing...they have a sense of entitlement and think it is their right to have it all. That's just a crock of dung. If you want happiness you have to go MAKE your happiness. If you want success you have to work for it and get off your butt and MAKE it happen.

How often do you ever see a guy on here post about a problem they have without making a butt load of excuses or blaming someone else for that problem? It's not very damn often, that's for sure.

 

[Ripper]

Everyone wants something for nothing.

This is the problem with modern society. Everyone wants rights but without the responsibilities.

 

[wayword]

wayword...unless a couple was married when they have a child, they automatically do paternity tests in the process of determining child support. And even if they were married a man is entitled to ask for a paternity test if he has doubts. Just as it's ignorant for feminists to claim they get paid less than men when affirmative action exists to protect against that it is equally as ignorant for men to claim they are forced to pay child support for a child they didn't help make.

Unfortunately, you are WRONG. Please STOP SPREADING FEMINIST DISINFORMATION AND MISINFORMATION HERE, WOMAN!!! :trouble:

He then took a DNA test and discovered he wasn't the father, but the court ordered him to pay $120,000 anyway.

Basically, what happened is that when Clinton pushed welfare reform back in the 90s, gov agencies pushed hard to pass the buck for raising single moms' kids back to the fathers...instead of the state.

GREAT idea...except they didn't care if the guy they nabbed was ACTUALLY the biological dad, or not! In fact, they now had a financial motivation to just find ANY cuckold, without any more proof than the baby mommy fingering him.

They have finally been reforming this gross injustice in a few states, but not plenty of others. So YES, you could still be forced to pay CS for a baby that isn't even yours! GOOOO FEMINISTS!!!! :cheer:

Now, if you don't think issues like these are legitimately worth fighting for and just playing the "blame game," then YOU are playing the "blame game" and trying to actively suppress men's birthrights.

 

[Latinoman]

That's true...I honestly don't gain anything from posting here, nor to I benefit from it in any way.

Yes you do. Posting in here for you is an adiction. Why? Because you like to debate.

I post here because I honestly DO want to help people resolve problems they are having in their relationships.

I know you are trying. But, you tend to give advice in a way it seems you are ALSO justifying your age/status/etc.

It's actually something I am very good at and know a lot about. I've had two long term wonderful, loving relationships of over 5 years each.

You were with ex-convicts for Christ sake! What is so healthy about that? And you have not been in a relationship in the last 5-years!

I had one very horrible relationship of 10 years. I bring 20 years of LTR experience to the table....10 years of what NOT to do and 10 years of what TO do.

Let me do the math here...You are 38. Twenty years of relationship + 5 years without one (the last five years)...that mean 25 years. 38-25 = 13. Were you married when you were 13? Or, where you involved in multiple relationships (simultaneously -a.k.a. cheating).

I am a treasure trove of information...and I'm willing to share that to help people here.

I was married for over 15 years. I left. But I kept her happy. I am currently in another LTR. And have had my share of women (even when I was married).

If anyone can provide a sea of information in here...that person is me.

You do give some good information from time to time. But you also give some advice that is VERY DAMAGING for a person to follow.

It would really be nice to be able to offer that help and advice without being viewed as the enemy...because I'm NOT your enemy.

Of course, you are not the enemy. You simply a person trying to help...but in no condition to do so.

I just want you all to find the same kind of love and happiness that I was fortunate enough to find twice in my life.

Perhaps you should be looking for that NOW...as it appears you are not happy and that you are alone.

I also want to help you avoid the misery of a dysfunctional and volatile relationship, so some of you can avoid making the same mistakes that I made when I was young.

I won't go back into the issue of dating criminals, etc. However, that (your quote above) is what many of us try to do.

From my perspective, I don't view the women as enemies. I view the men as FOOLS. The men are the ones that ask the women for marriage...not the other way around. So, I give my advice based on "likelihoods". The likelihood of a relationship failing because of a bad choice of women.

1- For LTR...avoid as much as possible women that are 35+ and 5+ year older than you. (E.g. if you are 30 and she is 36...avoid!). If you are 25 and she is 31...that's okay. But women that tend to be 35+ are very hard to change. Now, if you are 45 and she is 35...that's fine as you are in another frame.

2- For LTR...avoid single mothers. Unless you are willing to take responsibility and be an example for that child.

3- Avoid women with a very shady past. As past does matter. And women tend to hybernate. And with past...it doesn't have to be just sexual...could be $$$...and criminal.

4- Avoid alcoholics/drug users/petty criminals

5- Avoid women that don't work or like to work. Unless you want a housewife and if that is the case, make sure she at least know how to cook and she is capable of finding a job in the event of an emergency.


What is so wrong about that advice? I can give that advice. Can you do the same??? No. Why? Because there is a potential that you (or a woman you know and like) might fall into one of the 5 categories above.

Now...if the man is a DJ...he can date ANYONE as he will do that knowing the consequences.

 

[Wyldfire]

wayword...how many children do you have and how many child support cases have you experienced first hand?

I have 4 children...3 from a 10 year marriage and one with a different man. When child support was established in both cases my ex husband was ASKED if he wanted a paternity test and he said no, that he knew our children were his, and they are. In the case of my youngest they did the paternity test automatically and always do. The only way they don't do it is if the man they intend to test specifically ASKS to sign a waiver claiming the child as his own. My youngest daughter is 6 years old, almost 7. They've been doing things this way for quite some time. Stop reading radical talking points on line and assuming they are fact when you have no real experience on the issue. That is all...


LatinoMan...I am 41. I got divorced when I was 28. I met my deceased fiance' when I was 28 and was with him for 5 years. Yes, he was a convict, but he also treated me and my children better than I have ever seen a man treat anyone. He loved us, respected us, and treated us perfectly. Most people make mistakes in life, especially when they are young. Pete was no exception. One mistake a person makes does not define who they are as an entire person. You are labelling and stigmatizing...and only people with closed and small minds do that. If you go through your life judging people only by the biggest mistake they have made and frowning upon everyone who has made a big mistake you'll be frowning on everyone...including yourself.

After Pete died I had a 6 year emotional involvement with a man who I refer to as my best friend on here. We loved each other very much. He also passed away this last August. His name was Aaron...and we shared something incredible just as I shared with Pete. In between that time I have also spent a couple of years having shorter relationships that were quite good but the guys just weren't compatible enough to warrant staying with.

I don't think many people here can say that they have been deeply in love twice in their lives where they maintained those same feelings for 5 years or more, never hurt each other and will always love, respect and think fondly of those loves even though they are no longer with them. When you have just one relationship that long where there is no hurting each other and instead of fighting you actually communicate with each other and compromise and resolve any issues like adults, with love and respect...you're doing much better than most. When you have that twice, then you're definitely doing some things right and others could learn a lot from you.

A dysfunctional and volatile relationship has nothing to do with whether or not a person has been in trouble with the law, etc. It has everything to do with how the two people relate to each other and deal with issues. You rely far too much on stereotypes and assumptions...and that is a huge mistake.

I actually AM very happy. I have 4 great children. I have hobbies I love. I go to school full time. I have a dream I am actively pursuing to make the world a better place...I am going to develop and open an extensive substance abuse program for homeless and poor addicts and it is going to be FREE. It's not going to be just another bandaid solution that lines a few peoples' pockets...it's going to make a difference. My life is actually very full. My last love died less than 6 months ago, and I don't feel I'm quite ready to date or get involved with anyone for awhile. I'm not lonely or sad and I want to focus on me and my goals for now. True happiness comes from within, and I don't need to look to anyone else to provide that happiness for me. If I meet someone who I really click with and who I really WANT to share my life with, I certainly won't turn my nose up to that...but I honestly AM very happy doing the things that I want to do with my life. Maybe if I didn't have children I may feel differently because then I might get lonely once in awhile...but I never feel that way at all. In fact, I would actually welcome a bit of solitude much of the time because I don't get nearly enough of that.

 

[Wyldfire]

wayword...what's the deal with all the personal attacks? They are completely unwarranted and actually make you look quite foolish. You're not impressing anyone...in fact, all you're doing is losing what tiny bit of respect you may have had here. You really do need to grow up...

 

[Desdinova]

This thread has pretty much gone down the toilet. That's all folks!

CLOSED.