Feminist reaction to sosuave

[Panda 2000]

She basically failed to understand the site, jumped the gun and went on and criticized it because she obviously looks like she's actively seeking things to rant about that might not fit her exact mindset. She also doesn't seem very tolerant of other people, lashing out at everyone whose opinion differs from her.
Hah, all in all funny read, not worth thinking twice about though, it's best just to leave people like that to rot in their negativity and continue having fun.

 

[Wyldfire]

Basically she just doesn't understand this site, though she really should put in a little more effort. The scary part is though, she's a teacher according to her profile. Guess what her students are going to be taught?

And the cycle continues.

Since I'm procrastinating to go study "gender"...lol...I'll respond to this.

She actually does understand this site...what it has become, that is. It's actually you guys who don't understand it. Most men here claim that it is a site to help a bunch of good guys learn how to be more successful with women...and I truly think that's what they want to believe that's what it is. The fact is, however, that it has become something entirely different. The loudest participants of this forum preaches to blame, hate, mistrust, use and then run away from women. Don't get me wrong...there is real potential for greatness here...and for the site to return to it's original state. But for that to be the reality it's going to take you guys standing up and taking the site back from those who have deformed it.

 

[Panda 2000]

Maybe true, there's a lot of blame, hate, ekcetera going on right now around the boards, but I wonder if she took a look at the dj bible, most articles there are cool posts with great views about social behaviour and self-psychology.

 

[Wyldfire]

Maybe true, there's a lot of blame, hate, ekcetera going on right now around the boards, but I wonder if she took a look at the dj bible, most articles there are cool posts with great views about social behaviour and self-psychology.

Most people who first come here don't look at the Bible first. Most of the stuff in the bible is from back when the site really WAS what you'd all define it as. It was such a positive place for guys who were struggling with women. It fostered a sense of responsibility, humility, a real sense of community and support for each other. There was no hating. Once in awhile someone would vent and start moving towards placing blame and the guys would pull him back towards looking at his own choices and what he could do differently. You didn't hear people insulting each other or running away from relationship challenges. It was so much better...way better than any of the other similar sites. Bottom line...this site will ultimately be what you all make it to be. For it to be great again, there needs to be MUCH self reflection and a genuine desire to fix what is wrong.

I've been getting on my little soapbox off and on for several years now...because I'm able to look at this site more objectively than the guys, and I've seen this virus of hate festering and spreading for a long time. It's got to stop.

 

[Ripper]

Most people who first come here don't look at the Bible first. Most of the stuff in the bible is from back when the site really WAS what you'd all define it as. It was such a positive place for guys who were struggling with women. It fostered a sense of responsibility, humility, a real sense of community and support for each other. There was no hating. Once in awhile someone would vent and start moving towards placing blame and the guys would pull him back towards looking at his own choices and what he could do differently. You didn't hear people insulting each other or running away from relationship challenges. It was so much better...way better than any of the other similar sites. Bottom line...this site will ultimately be what you all make it to be. For it to be great again, there needs to be MUCH self reflection and a genuine desire to fix what is wrong.

I've been getting on my little soapbox off and on for several years now...because I'm able to look at this site more objectively than the guys, and I've seen this virus of hate festering and spreading for a long time. It's got to stop.

At the end of the day, it's not gonna seriously affect Wyldfire's life if this site goes to sh1t. But if some of the idiots here keep slandering people like her who give constructive criticism and advice then the site will go that way a whole lot quicker.

 

[Wyldfire]

That's true...I honestly don't gain anything from posting here, nor to I benefit from it in any way. I post here because I honestly DO want to help people resolve problems they are having in their relationships. It's actually something I am very good at and know a lot about. I've had two long term wonderful, loving relationships of over 5 years each. I had one very horrible relationship of 10 years. I bring 20 years of LTR experience to the table....10 years of what NOT to do and 10 years of what TO do. I am a treasure trove of information...and I'm willing to share that to help people here. It would really be nice to be able to offer that help and advice without being viewed as the enemy...because I'm NOT your enemy. I just want you all to find the same kind of love and happiness that I was fortunate enough to find twice in my life. I also want to help you avoid the misery of a dysfunctional and volatile relationship, so some of you can avoid making the same mistakes that I made when I was young.

 

[Rovalier]

On a somewhat related note, I was just reading through this post and decided to give feministing a drop by out of amusement. After a 10 second skim I found this.

feministing.com/archives/006547.html

Annoying headline of the day

Women warned on rape drink risk

From Scotsman: "Women were today warned over the dangers of binge drinking as figures showed more than a third of rapes were linked to alcohol."

Which clearly means the onus is on women to protect themselves. Sigh.

Some alternate headline suggestions:

Men warned to stop raping drunk women

Men warned of rape drink risk

Stop getting drunk and raping women, *******

Wishful thinking, I know.

Posted by Jessica at 09:17 AM

Oenophile: "...women should be aware of ways to not put themselves at risk."

Women do NOT put themselves at risk--rapists put them at risk. Until people understand that, we're in big ****ing trouble.

Posted by: Jessica [TypeKey Profile Page] | February 19, 2007 02:18 PM

I think my head exploded.

 

[Wyldfire]

The issue of alcohol and rape is a mixed bag, really. Sure, there are some guys who will intentionally take advantage of women by trying to get them drunk and yes, some guys will drug drinks. That being said...there are many cases of guys who are just as drunk as the woman who make errors in judgment or behave in a way they wouldn't if not for the alcohol. Although a drunk guy just doing his thing with a passed out girl is wrong, I don't think it should necessarily be called rape. If the girl says no and he still does it, then yeah...it's rape. If she's passed out and he's drunk and she couldn't give consent but didn't specifically say no...it was a mistake, but not rape, in my opinion. I guess the point I'm trying to make is...people shouldn't get so drunk that they don't have control over their behavior or body...and if a guy is drunk and screws up, the fact that he was drunk should be taken into consideration if the woman was passed out or so drunk she didn't or couldn't say anything. There's a lot of gray areas on that one.

As a woman who was raped in marriage and also as a teenager by an older teenage boy...it is something women worry about, and it does happen. It really bothers me that a lot of people are falsely accused, because women who do that cause people to assume those women who do get raped might be lying. It's a tragedy that it happens and it's a tragedy when someone is falsely accused. It's so tough to make the right call in some situations because if the rape isn't violent it can be difficult to tell what the truth is. You don't want to accuse a victim of rape of lying in case they really were raped and you don't want to destroy the life of a man who may be innocent. It's such a difficult problem...both rapes and false accusations.

 

[Shiftkey]

Guys, back off Wyldfire. She's not a feminist. She's been a positive addition to this forum.

Don't get me wrong...there is real potential for greatness here...and for the site to return to it's original state. But for that to be the reality it's going to take you guys standing up and taking the site back from those who have deformed it.

I'm with you there. I'm starting to preach the same things you are. But I feel like we'd just be spinning our wheels without Allen making some rule changes and empowering the mods (and maybe adding a few more too).

 

[Rovalier]

I am not saying rapists do not exist or should not be held accountable. Risks will always exist, the goal is to minimize it. I just think its common sense not to binge drink by yourself (man or woman). It's not like it is insanely difficult to do, nor do you lose much. As far as personal responsibility goes, this is one of the easiest one.

 

[djbr]

edit: **NOT WORK SAFE!**

http://carnaval2007.terra.com.br/interna/0,,OI1418971-EI8192,00.html

Next year, Salvador - Bahia - Brazil. OK guys?!

 

[Wyldfire]

Guys, back off Wyldfire. She's not a feminist. She's been a positive addition to this forum.



I'm with you there. I'm starting to preach the same things you are. But I feel like we'd just be spinning our wheels without Allen making some rule changes and empowering the mods (and maybe adding a few more too).

I hear ya...Allen needs to do with discussion of feminism and men's rights stuff what he did with politics...not allowed. The other option would be to provide a separate forum for only men's rights stuff and forbid it from seeping over into the rest of the forum. The only problem with that is it will still negatively influence the new members who are licking their wounds and are most vulnerable to get sucked into the negativity of the issue.

Bottom line...you can guide boys to become men without instilling a hatred of women in the process. I think it is in the best interest of the site to just ban all the feminist stuff and then enforce it rigidly until those who only are interested in that stuff find another place to post.

 

[Wyldfire]

I am not saying rapists do not exist or should not be held accountable. Risks will always exist, the goal is to minimize it. I just think its common sense not to binge drink by yourself (man or woman). It's not like it is insanely difficult to do, nor do you lose much. As far as personal responsibility goes, this is one of the easiest one.

Absolutely...it's such a sensitive issue. There are bad people who commit rapes against others. There are also bad people who lie about being raped. You can't openly discuss the subject without addressing both issues. At the same time, it's very important to be as objective and considerate of both sides of the argument because unless any of us were there to witness it, we really don't know what happened. Just as it isn't right to say that every man accused of rape is a rapist, it's no better to say that every woman who claims to have been raped is lying. Sadly, there are quite a few on this site who will claim that most women lie about being raped. There are many women who will also claim that no women lie about being raped. We can't generalize everyone because doing so isn't right or beneficial to anyone...it only breeds contempt.

 

[Desdinova]

Wyldfire, back when you and I joined this site, there were two different schools of people who existed: Those who were into Speed Seduction, and those who were into "Don Juanism" (for lack of a better term). The two co-existed, and that's usually what started any kind of disagreement or arguments, as well as the occasional troll. Eventually, a forum was created specially for those who were into Speed Seduction (and the remnants are still here to this day)

I've watched the forum slowly evolve over the years. It has also become more well known. The quality stuff is still here, but you need to dig for it. Thankfully, much of it is preserved in the DJ Bible. But when you get new members everyday, and it only takes minutes (as opposed to hours in 2001) for the posts in the main forum to get a response, there's going to be a lot more newbie posts to wade through before you find a real treasure. But those treasures are usually worth it.


Now that I'm done my trip down memory lane, I think I'll make a comment about feminism. First of all, this place did go through a feminist-hating phase when Pook originally addressed it on here before he left. As I recall, I made a post back then that the "fad" would cool off. And it did, just like Ganji Games, Speed Seduction, and everything else that has been a "fad" on here. After being around here for so friggin' long, it amazes me how this community is really not much different than how society generally works. The weak will fight amongst each other, the weak will get jumped on by the strong, but unlike society, many of the strong are willing to show the weak how to also become strong. I've seen the internet make up for where real life has failed time and time again. It's really quite amazing.

Anyway, onto feminism. Most people on here are seeing feminism as the root of the condition of the society we live in today, and they are somewhat correct. However, the feminist movement was created to make women part of society, where they could work, where they could vote, and have freedom of choice. That, in itself isn't a bad thing. Where feminism went wrong is when women saw potential to abuse it to greedily get what they wanted. They screamed "oppression!" when a man would tell them the "N" word or would stand up to the woman. They used it to get the law on their side for child support payment, they degraded men as fat beer drinking football watching lazy slobs who think about nothing but sex, and society began to reflect this. They also took the man's power away by using sex as a control mechanism. The men who took the advice of the feminazis on talk shows to "become more in touch with her needs and feelings" gave up their power and their ability to say "no" because that's what the woman says she needs.

It's not feminism's fault that society is the way it is, it's the abuse of feminism (the feminazis) that created the continent we currently live in. Although it was created to do good, the end result of the constant abuse of it has turned North America into an horrible mess which statistics currently show.

 

[Desdinova]

Allen needs to do with discussion of feminism and men's rights stuff what he did with politics...not allowed.

I'm personally for the discussion of politics and religion because of the impact these issues have on our society, but I'm not the one who makes the rules here.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

What IS feminism?

It appears SO distorted I bet SOMEONE takes it and distorts it to THEIR needs. It's like religion. There's so many varying kinds, some will say the Bible is the Word. Other's will say that it's been forged, or not even real. Still other's take God and warp him, and based on current religion, only 1 of the groups are getting to any eternal resting place.

The same perversion happens because of man (or woman). They take it to fit their whims. BACK then feminism fit where society was at, and what it needed. Parts of it we don't need now. But honestly, I have no background in it, nor do I care.

What I do care about are people using it as a blanket to hide behind for excuses. I realize SOCIALLY we need to be "aware", but if you want to be aware, have society work toward MORE equality and MORE personal FREEDOM. More self reliance. NOT trying to suppress any one section. We can't legislate morality.

I had a discussion with my parents who felt OUR (my) generation was getting quite messed up and thought marriage at a younger age would be better for all, and that things should go back the way they were. My point was...you can't legislate morality, because for every group who decides what should be in and what is out, another could come up and reverse THAT. You either believe in morality and equality FOR all, or it doesn't exist. Period. That's a quote by Noam Chomsky also.

We can't focus on SUPPRESSING or altering feminism, that only fights back and creates MORE power in THEIR direction because then they feel justified that THEY ARE fighting. Rather, we have to examine equality and what's fair. We have to relieve ALL roadblocks to all pathes in life, and let people choose. But that's the hard part. MOST people, and I'd say 99%, don't want to choose their reality. They don't want to control their reality, or their feelings, minute to minute, or their thoughts. And more importantly don't realize that THAT is the world...their thoughts and feelings, and what they do with THOSE. A bazillion posts have been made on it, yet nobody's gotten it yet.

If you feel you're this GREAT ENLIGHTENED don juan, then how does feminism bother you?

If it's at work, you can try to change A whole work-based environment, OR, you can move around until you find the place you want to work.

If it's with women, why are you tolerating their behavior? If you're a great guy, you'll find a great girl, and the pool of great men will dry up and women will alter their mating strategies. (think of how women who enter their 30's and unwed begin changing who they go after).

If you see it at bars, why do you even let in your reality?

OTHER's have to choose, so unless it's bumping up against your world, and you're TRULY helpless, there's ALWAYS a way out, a solution, an answer, or another path. The point is to persevere BEYOND what normal people consider the ENDING point.


Good posts all around though.

A-Unit

 

[Wyldfire]

Des...it's not that discussing feminism in and of itself is always a bad thing...that certainly isn't what I'm saying. The point I'm trying to make is that this site is supposed to be about focusing on yourself, becoming a better person, learning from your mistakes, growing as a man...and in the process, building the confidence necessary to perpetuate more successful relationships with women. The guys that come here to do those things are getting bogged down in the mire created by all the anti-feminism stuff. All that does is draw out the whole process, waste precious time and get these guys hung up on things they don't need to be hung up on. It's just not productive for the overall purpose of this site.

How can anyone expect young guys to learn how to relate better with and to women so they can actually succeed with them if the loudest voices they hear are encouraging them to hate, blame and resent women? Isn't this place supposed to help guys move beyond all that negativity in order to make their lives more positive?

A support site for positive dating and relationship experiences simply cannot co-exist with the teaching of blaming, hatred and resentment of women and lead to a positive or productive outcome.

I am not on my little soapbox for my own benefit. Whether or not you guys continue to go on the way you are really is no skin off my patootie. I already know how to have good relationships with the opposite sex and I don't harbor any resentments, anger or hatred for men. I don't blame men for anything and I take responsibility for the choices I make and the part I play in my own problems. This is NOT for me. I'm arguing this FOR YOU GUYS because I have seen too many men get sucked into the whole men's rights thing and spend years absolutely miserable and unhappy only to later figure out that it didn't serve them well. Time is a precious commodity and you guys should spend it in a way that will truly make a difference in your life. I just can't imagine how anyone could honestly feel good about having so much hostility and anger inside of them. That sheeit kills people and there's so much more out there to experience that is so much better. This world and humanity is so filled with beauty and wonder but so few people are capable of seeing it. Sure, there is a lot of sucky things as well...but we see what we choose to. It's high time the guys here started to take the time to see that glass as being half full instead of half empty. Try it...it really feels good...

 

[Rovalier]

Slight aside, I am not entirely familiar with MGTOW, but based on some the stuff I read on Pook's blog, it sounded like Don Juanism (+ avoid marriage) and not quite like the MRA/Men's Movement/Masculism. Anyone know if there is a difference between the two? The two seem to get intermixed a lot.

 

[Wyldfire]

When I first joined this site, Pook was giving advice and tips that was more geared towards focusing on the things a guy had control over and could change. He had some very good things and a great deal of insight. At some point, however, he (in my opinion) switched gears and ended up putting too much focus on feminism. I noticed it when he went on a rant about Harry Potter books and seeing some kind of feminist agenda in that. I haven't read anything his written as of late, but I certainly hope he goes back to writing the great positive inspirational stuff he used to, because that stuff helped so many guys in such a good way.

 

[sstype]

A-Unit and Wyldfire have hit the nail on the head.

As men, it serves no purpose for us to let our past consume ourselves with anger and hatred.

Don't get me wrong. We must acknowledge that our society has become anti-male/masculinity. But the most anti-male thing we can do is to sit here and cry victim.

Wyldfire is not saying, "you guys are just bytching, get over it" She is empowering us by saying, "Look guys, if you want to fight feminism, fight it the right way"

We fight feminism and regain masculinity, not by insults and venom, but by fighting and conquering ourselves. As a whole, men have become weaker. We must eliminate the character flaws and weaknesses that were instilled in us by our society. We must build better bodies, run successful businesses, help other people. We must thrive on realistic optimism. We must treat others with respect, while at the same time standing up for who we are and what we believe in. We must respect women, but also know that they need strong men to lead them.

If we all did this, imagine. imagine, some of us becoming judges, lawyers, influential businessmen, media giants, senators, high ranking government officials.

That is where we can institute positive social change. This is where we can voice out against the anti-male biases in our culture and legal system. And that is where radical feminism may finally slip into irrelevance.