Female Friends

Rollo Tomassi

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pLaYtHiNg said:
I have had a lot of male friends and more than a few were very, very close friends, without sexual tension, (at least that I could notice)
Heh,..of course you don't, because,..

A.) Acknowledging that sexual tension would qualify your friendship based on that sexual tension; therefore making your motives for maintaining those friendships suspect to you simply holding onto them for your own attention needs rather than any mutual respect, interests or commonalities.

OR

B.) If there genuinely is no sexual tension it's because they're not attracted to, or aroused by you, which is equally disturbing. So, better to frame, and personally internalize, the friendships as completely platonic and unassuming and rest safe in knowing that most guys, interested or not, are going to reinforce this for you in order to identify with you or potentially one of your female friends they are attracted to.
 

Hughman

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Probably doesn't help that I go to an all-male school, but i have one true female friend.

I consider my true friend to be people i can talk to just about anything, without prejudice and in good confidence, and an almost familial bond, that is to say I would defend them to the end if I had to. As a result I'd say I have 4, perhaps 5 true friends.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a loner, quite the opposite, I have plenty of friends, and several of which are female, but I just view them differently to my core friends, and I guess they do to.
 

LDBaha

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4. Continuing to improve your social skills. Being in the friend zone doesn't mean your AFC its how you got there. If you've befriended a chick who was attracted, she'll still be attracted and so the sexual tension will still be there.
This helped me tremendously. Right now I am really good friends with 5 hot chicks from school, but like REALLY hot and It's just nice to be around them :)

Girls will either think I'm gay or I am super awesome. After I flirt with them the gay part is gone =p
 

Warrior74

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You guys are confused to the meaning of the word "friend".

Rollo gave you the game but you went binary on his advice and just discarded it. What you call a female friend is really a female acquaintance. I know. I have females I call "friends" who run up and hug me, introduce me to all of their friends, hook me up with their girlfriends. Love to go party with me. But they are not gonna come help me move, or just come by to grill out and watch the playoffs.

Try this...every time you have a single female friend, compare the amount of time you spend with her when she's single to the amount of time when she's not single. Compare the number of times she calls before and after.

Now compare that to your male buddies in the same situation.

You will see a drop in both male and female but I bet the female drop will be even more drastic than the male. That's my personal experience anyway.

I may call a girl a friend,but I consider her an acquaintance and I never depend on her for anything real.
 
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I love this post. I have many female friends, and sure some are cuties, and others are smoking hot, but i don't have the time or energy to seduce them all. Female friends are great, and i recommend you have some, because you may not get to sleep with them, but they do provide other feminine resources and events. You can't sleep with everyone, and you still need a female crew because having only guy friends can get boring. When we hangout, they analyse my approaches from faraway and give me fashion fedback. They tell me female secrets they use to get guys, and they are great for expanding your social circle. and I don't have female friends who are orbiters, tampons, or users, they are all qualified as time goes by, we develop genuine connections, and we playfight, kiss on the check when she does a favor, keeps me company, and social proof each other. Female friends are great, but only advanced DJ's have the ability to hangout and interact without having drama llama.
 

Hughman

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Female acquittances? A dozen I frequently party and socialise with. Probably another 2 dozen I talk to with fair frequency either over the internet or in person.
 

Hughman

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Warrior74 said:
You guys are confused to the meaning of the word "friend".

Rollo gave you the game but you went binary on his advice and just discarded it. What you call a female friend is really a female acquaintance. I know. I have females I call "friends" who run up and hug me, introduce me to all of their friends, hook me up with their girlfriends. Love to go party with me. But they are not gonna come help me move, or just come by to grill out and watch the playoffs.

Try this...every time you have a single female friend, compare the amount of time you spend with her when she's single to the amount of time when she's not single. Compare the number of times she calls before and after.

Now compare that to your male buddies in the same situation.

You will see a drop in both male and female but I bet the female drop will be even more drastic than the male. That's my personal experience anyway.

I may call a girl a friend,but I consider her an acquaintance and I never depend on her for anything real.
I sort of disagree with your notion that you can't have anything above female acquaintances. Sure, as an AFC, any 'strong' female friends will most likely turn into one-itis, it's happened to me. But as a DJ you don't need to think about that route. You enjoy their company as people, not as as a means to an end for your personal pleasure (and ultimate pain)

As for the drop in seeing/talking to people that enter relationships, well that is going to happen, regardless of your prowess in relationship. However, I'd say an AFC will be lost into the oblivion, a guy that knows his stuff will only be slightly busy, and won't certainly change any routines he has with his buddies.
 

Warrior74

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Hughman said:
I sort of disagree with your notion that you can't have anything above female acquaintances. Sure, as an AFC, any 'strong' female friends will most likely turn into one-itis, it's happened to me. But as a DJ you don't need to think about that route. You enjoy their company as people, not as as a means to an end for your personal pleasure (and ultimate pain)
Your 17. I've done everything from the female best friend, to the AFC oneitis for female friend to female roommates, to lesbian hangout buddies, to converting female friends to fuk buddies, to dating female friends. I don't think I ever said you don't enjoy their company or don't respect them, they just aren't true friends in the same way that your boys are. It's different. You'll see. Trust a woman to be a woman no matter what her status. One of my female friends invited me to dinner tonight, you know what she wants? She wants to ***** and moan about her problems. She doesn't want to do anything or have any fun. She wants sympathy. That's all she ever wants. I'm not hanging out with her.
Now my other female 'friend' she always wants to go somewhere with the group, do things and have fun. I will be hanging out with her this weekend.

Hughman said:
As for the drop in seeing/talking to people that enter relationships, well that is going to happen, regardless of your prowess in relationship. However, I'd say an AFC will be lost into the oblivion, a guy that knows his stuff will only be slightly busy, and won't certainly change any routines he has with his buddies.
Christ did you even read what I said? Because your response has nothing to do with what I wrong. I didn't say AFC vs DJ. I said Your boys vs your girlfriends. Women use male friendship for energy, companionship and validation. When they get it from their boyfriends they don't need you for that anymore. That shows you the true measure of their 'friendship'.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Of the literally thousands of threads I've read about a guy with "friend" problems with a girl there are universally two terms the guy will use:

She's just my friend, I'm not trying to bang her.
and

I just hang out with them like they were guys.
,...every time man, every time.


First off lets cover the common term "hang out." This is a catch-all term many AFCs use to justify their behaviors. "Me and my girl-friends hang out together all the time, what's the big deal?" So, what exactly are you doing when you're hanging out? More talking perhaps? You see 'hanging out' is a nice general term, but you've got to be doing something, right? What is it that you do? Is there a difference in what you do with your same sex friends? You see if I tell my wife "Honey, I'm taking my friend Alice to church on Sunday morning" that's a whole lot different than me saying "Honey, I meeting up with Alice for drinks on Friday night," the difference is in what we're doing.

Of course the next thing a prepared AFC will trot out is 'common interests'. Common interest means a mutuality of interest; in other words she's into what you are and you're into what she is. Thus if you're into pro wrestling and muscle cars she must also be. If she's into painting her toenails and talking about cute boys on her bed on a Thursday night you must be also. Now that's black & white, but it comes back to what exactly it is you're doing together - as friends. You see, when two guys are into doing the same thing it's called 'common interest', but when a man and a woman enjoy the same thing it's called 'compatibility'. This of course dovetails into how men will make concessions based on sex. How many guys suddenly have an epiphany about modern art because their female 'friend' does in comparison to if their male friend asked them to go along to the museum? Once again, friendship mitigated by gender differences.

Another very common rationale AFCs like to use is the "sex by association" reasoning for befriending women. The idea behind this is that associating with one female "friend" will pivot into sex with another one of her friends. The assumption is that this "friend" is kind of like having a letter of recommendation when a guy hooks up with another one of her friends. The premise is ridiculous in itself, but as convenient as this may seem the notion is loaded with inconsistencies.

First, your inter-gender friendship is once again founded on your own sex interests as a guy - thus a disingenuous friendship to begin with. More often than not guys will justify agreeing to a LJBF rejection from the girl they wanted to get with by using this excuse. However, assuming that you did establish a completely platonic, organic friendship with a woman. This reasoning presumes she has more than a few girlfriends, they're attractive enough to want to date, they're single and they too don't see you as "friendship" material since you've already established you're a non-sexual threat with the original friend.

A common AFC mistake is to think that friendship will lead to sex. It's counterintuitive to most AFCs that anxiety and discomfort are the primary elements to sexual tension. In his mind friendship leads to comfort and comfort leads to sex. And why wouldn't he believe this when he's been told by countless girls (and more than a few fellow AFCs) that she "needs to feel comfortable with him before she'll do that"? So the natural progression to him is to establish friendships and qualify himself for her intimacy. What he fails to realize is that he has it backwards - it's discomfort and sexual anxiety that leads to sex, and then to friendship. Most AFCs lack the confidence to engage in the very important, very necessary, phase of seduction and tension, and move directly into comfort and rapport.

Now, lets apply this to your female friend's other girlfriends. Women talk. In fact it's all they do most of the time. To invoke POOK here: "If a friend she sees a friend you will always be." Your status as a friend gets transferred to her girlfriends. Why? First, if she was a prior target for you who turned into a LJBF you already have that as the foundation of your friendship. Any of her girlfriends that would subsequently date you will know that she was your primary interest initially - not them. Secondly, assuming you had a completely innocuous, asexual, platonic beginning to your inter-gender friendship, there will be competition anxiety with the other girlfriends. This will result in a tendency for the original friend to filter your exposure to which of her girlfriends she finds the least threatening.

Finally, to complete the circle here, all of this leads up to understanding that your female friend will NEVER be one of your guy friends. This silly notion is founded on the expectation that your female friend will hold the same interests and have the same reactions that your male friends will. Women are never going to be your wingman. One of the great downfalls of men today is too much female influence in their lives, to the point that it's become stigma. Beware the guy with too many or exclusively female friends. This might make for the plot of stupid movies, but most women are wary of guys with so many female friends that they question their being able to relate with and be Men.
 

Hughman

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Warrior74 said:
Your 17. I've done everything from the female best friend, to the AFC oneitis for female friend to female roommates, to lesbian hangout buddies, to converting female friends to fuk buddies, to dating female friends. I don't think I ever said you don't enjoy their company or don't respect them, they just aren't true friends in the same way that your boys are. It's different. You'll see. Trust a woman to be a woman no matter what her status. One of my female friends invited me to dinner tonight, you know what she wants? She wants to ***** and moan about her problems. She doesn't want to do anything or have any fun. She wants sympathy. That's all she ever wants. I'm not hanging out with her.
Now my other female 'friend' she always wants to go somewhere with the group, do things and have fun. I will be hanging out with her this weekend.

Christ did you even read what I said? Because your response has nothing to do with what I wrong. I didn't say AFC vs DJ. I said Your boys vs your girlfriends. Women use male friendship for energy, companionship and validation. When they get it from their boyfriends they don't need you for that anymore. That shows you the true measure of their 'friendship'.
I am young yes, but have some faith in the other half of humanity. You need both to maintain a whole mental-wellbeing. And as I said, there is only 1 i would consider a true friend. We can talk comfortably to each other, and we don't judge each other. (and yes, I did have one-itits over her, but I'm pretty much over it - I would love to date her, but I'm not fussed now that I can't, because my logic of why we are a good match is beaten by her emotions of putting me in the friend list)

I was merely elaborating on your point and expanding it, not twisting what you said. If you don't give her the validation, there isn't going to be any major problems. I admit I see my friend less now she's back in a LTR, but tbh I've never seen her out of one, so the realtionship we have is already been built with the margins of having another guy around. I haven't encountered any problems. TBH i can talk freer to her because she knows I have no intention of trying to game her, when single girls are suspicious of my motives.

We all seem to assume that women are all natural experts on the game, at least that is the impression I'm getting of the stuff I'm reading. I'd say quite the opposite, at least in the UK. They have a better perception of emotion and communication, sure, but they can be just as clueless about relationships, some ways more as emotions > logic to them.

EDIT: I am fully aware I developed my friendship for the purposes of getting her to like me 'that way', the joys of being an AFC. I accept now that is not the case. I've moved on. I have other interests. She knows when before I would never talk about my interest with her, I now freely do.
 

Maxtro

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Rollo Tomassi said:
Another very common rationale AFCs like to use is the "sex by association" reasoning for befriending women. The idea behind this is that associating with one female "friend" will pivot into sex with another one of her friends. The assumption is that this "friend" is kind of like having a letter of recommendation when a guy hooks up with another one of her friends. The premise is ridiculous in itself, but as convenient as this may seem the notion is loaded with inconsistencies.

First, your inter-gender friendship is once again founded on your own sex interests as a guy - thus a disingenuous friendship to begin with. More often than not guys will justify agreeing to a LJBF rejection from the girl they wanted to get with by using this excuse. However, assuming that you did establish a completely platonic, organic friendship with a woman. This reasoning presumes she has more than a few girlfriends, they're attractive enough to want to date, they're single and they too don't see you as "friendship" material since you've already established you're a non-sexual threat with the original friend.
Sadly this is the case. In my life I've had about 6 female friends. These are girls that I'd regularly hang out with. None of the girls ever tried to set me up with one of their friends. I was never introduced to one of their friends. I was never told if any of their friends were single. One would think that if a friend of mine knew I was single and looking, she would introduce me to one of her friends that is also single and looking. But it just simply didn't happen.

My theory is that I was simply not seen as a man. Since none of my friends thought of me as a man, why bother trying to set me up with a friend?

Rollo Tomassi said:
A common AFC mistake is to think that friendship will lead to sex. It's counterintuitive to most AFCs that anxiety and discomfort are the primary elements to sexual tension. In his mind friendship leads to comfort and comfort leads to sex. And why wouldn't he believe this when he's been told by countless girls (and more than a few fellow AFCs) that she "needs to feel comfortable with him before she'll do that"? So the natural progression to him is to establish friendships and qualify himself for her intimacy. What he fails to realize is that he has it backwards - it's discomfort and sexual anxiety that leads to sex, and then to friendship. Most AFCs lack the confidence to engage in the very important, very necessary, phase of seduction and tension, and move directly into comfort and rapport.
I'm guilty of this on several occasions. Also most of my friendships with women actually ended because I wanted to have sex with them and they were obviously not interested. There was a single fight about sex and then all contact was broken to never be resumed again.

I need to figure out how to use discomfort and sexual anxiety so I can avoid becoming friends with future girls.
 
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