Face it, Direct Game is not a good way to meet girls.

[ElStud]

Have you guys seen Keys to the VIP? Check it out on Youtube. Club pickups done, in North America, mostly by direct openers. "Hi, you look interesting, what's your name?" Pretty direct. Seems to work okay. After 6 beers, I start doing direct sort of game myself , doesn't everybody?

So in a club environment, after you've maybe made eye contact and hung with your friends, she will very likely NOT think you creepy or annoying or desperate for walking up and saying some variation of "you look good to me."

Derek Flint, you have met Mystery, and sarged with fairly serious fellow PUA's, right? So do you know anyone from a local layer? Do any of them make sarging videos? Has anyone ever made a video of anything like YOUR technique, the one that you described before, that tends to get excellent results? If so, try to find one and post it up so people can see what you're talking about.

Like you say, it's not the words, it's the "congruency" and the "body language", but nobody here knows WTF you are talking about when you say these things!! You will have to show, instead of tell.

Yeah I agree, a lot guys here think that it's about the words and that's BS. Give a n00b one of the best openers and he'll fail because he's not congruent and conveying the right things.

 

[YoungSir4sho]

Listen I Aint A Rapper, Im a Basketball Player But Dats Not Da Point. U Ppl Can Understand Wat I Say Right??? So Stop Askin For Perfect Grammer N Stuff Like That. Prolly Kno Some1 Gonna Say Go To School Or Sumthin Lol.

U Can Eitha Answer My ? Or Not Simple As That

 

[ketostix]

Like I said earlier, Direct is not an opener or a routine, if it is used as such, it will fail you.

2 whole weeks? Not nearly enough time to make lifestyle changes that will be reflected by your actions and your interactions with women.

BTW, I did 3 approaches last night and got 2 phone numbers. Other guys here are having good results as well.

Seems part of your problem is you're too worried about what other people will think about you, and when you do that, you sub-communicate nervousness and not confidence and relaxation.

Like I said, women will follow your lead. If you are not being congruent with a Direct lifestyle and philosophy, then you won't be congruent with your approaches and you will give off a wierd vibe which women will sense and it will make them uncomfortable.

When done correctly, a woman will light up like a Christmas Tree and I've even had girls, hot girls, tremble and shake from my opener. I know this because when I opened her, I took her hands in mine and held them and could feel her begin to tremble and she said "oh my god" about 2 or 3 times.

You need to make changes in your life that adopts a direct philosophy.
You should also do the missions and exercises and listen to the Shark CD's

Finally, you can't expect changes in 2 weeks. If you're ready to quit after such a short time, then being Direct with women and living a no-excuses lifestyle obviously isn't for you.

You can go back to using "Can a get a female opinion on something?" and other indirect openers and methods if you don't have the courage to make positive changes in your life.

Direct Lifestyle isn't for everyone. And guys think that it is an opener when there is a whole lot more to it than that.

The opener is probably less than 10% of the equation, so if you haven't learned the other 90% and I doubt you did in 2 weeks, then of course you're not going to have success.

Inner change takes time. This is why MM and other indirect methods are so popular, is because they are "shortcuts" but those same shortcuts that may get you fast results will not get you long-term results.

Once the girls looks past the style and sees that there is no substance, it's game over.

A lot of Indirect people believe you must have confidence and good "inner-game" to be successful too. They talk about being congruent and the importance of good and confident body language. Indirect game just gives you tactics to fake it til you make it.

Not all indirect game is MM, canned stories and routines, opinion openers, etc. A lot of it can be situational, natural and just vibing. The only difference between direct and indirect really is direct people believe they're going to best get the girl by being upfront and explicit right away about their interest and intentions. Indirect followers think you will lose way more often than you gain doing this, and they believe your interest and intent should be implied and not explicit.

Indirect mindset is really just being a challenge and a little bit mysterious to a woman. How you decide to best go out about doing this up to each person.

 

[Bonhomme]

Like a number of the fellows have said already, those who are saying flat-out "direct game doesn't work" are giving very poor examples.

Direct game is not just going up to some random gal you find hot and asking her out.

Think of seduction as a dance, of sorts. Part of the dance is eliciting her interest, (sometimes, but not necessarily) getting clued in on it, then conveying your interest.

As D!ck mentioned way back, this can be very simple, yet there are infinite ways it can happen...

 

[zerocelcius]

If you understand the game and you play it accordingly than you are being honest. It really doesn’t matter if you go straight up to a girl and profess your admiration and desire for her flat out or make it more interesting and playful.

The only difference is how you are going to be perceived and how true you are to your own nature.

Direct or indirect is just a matter of personal process. The form of direct that most people on here are talking about is not seduction. I don’t care how you try to say it, but the raw bottom line is there is absolutely no seduction in it.

If your just do PU to make yourself feel good, than you are in it for the wrong reasons. Yes we should better our selves and ‘be the best we can be’ but seduction is within it’s self a whole world (a life style). IMHO if you are in to seduction to be a better person, dry, upfront, blatant, bleeding heart, and/or superior than you are definitely into the wrong thing.

Seduction is an art! It is borderline irrational. History’s great seducers were weird even in their own time. Casanova was chastised by society’s elite and even the commoners. Lord Byron had a child with his sister and was extremely creepy. Neither of these men was known for their morals.

Again IMHO morals and seduction are elemental enemies. I am all for bettering yourself and knowing when to draw your personal line in the moral sand, but to sacrifice seduction for morals to me is absurd. I would gladly be less moral than less seductive. In fact I would go so far as 60/40 seduction the better or even 70/30. And as far as staying with in the lines; I hate staying with in the lines. I hate fences, boundaries, borders, restrictions, margins, fears, doubts, qualms, worries, uncertainties, reservations, suspicions, laws, expectations, limitations, apprehensions, regrets, and surrendering.

To truly say that direct is better than any form due to any moral or higher standing is pompous and ignorant. To say that all you do is direct and never indirect is a bold face lie and immoral. Further more; to deny that such conclusions of ‘indirect’ aren’t based on any of the above words I hate would also be a flat out lie and a clear sign of denial.

Overall; if you limit yourself in one form or another, due to limitations of any kind, than you are doing just that: Limiting yourself. I would rather die than limit myself.

 

[MVPlaya]

Over 95% of the time you do a direct approach, you will be point blank rejected. So that being so, why on earth do people claim that direct is the way to go.

Seriously, aren't we just eluding oursleves into believing direct is the best method. With such high rejection rates, it surely is NOT.

Have some class, don't just be a h*rny idiot who goes around saying "you're cute I want to meet you". Geez guys!

In order to successfully seduce a girl, you have to dance the dance of seduction! You have to play by the rules. You should NEVER verbalise your intentions to a woman.

By verbalising your intentions, you just look like every other AFC who says 'you're beautiful'. You have to stand out from everyone else, cos if you don't, then why should that HB10 want to talk to you

I want to believe that direct game works, but in my experience all it gets is a rejection and makes the woman feel awkward or 'weirded out'. This then makes me feel like a f*cking idiot as I walk away from the girl knowing I've just got rejected and given her a weird reaction.

And don't give me any crap about 'project better body language' etc etc. I have my style, body language, eye contact and tone of voice all sorted....so I don't need improvement there. It's the METHOD that's not working....

So come on, stop lying. I know that you're ALL getting well over 95% point blank rejections from direct approaches, yet you're clinging onto the f*cking fantasty that one day that will change.

Guys - the definition of insanity is doing the same thing but expecting a different result!

Look, I really wish Direct Game worked, but with a rejection rate of over 95% that's a lot of work to get to a girl that IS interested.

So why on earth are do you advocate Direct Game then?

Personally my goal is to get laid....NOT to approach women and get point blank rejected 95% of the time!!!!! What is YOUR goal then???

I'm a fairly seasoned PUA now (still remember getting on this board a clueless AFC, learning jack ****, ignoring the community, getting hooked on MM a year later, and slowly building it up, but I digress) and I think direct game functions so well inside the Mystery Method, most people just don't understand it. See, to seduce a woman, she needs to feel attracted to you, and comfortable with you, if a woman doesn't know you and has no opinions on you yet, you can rest assured that she's neither attracted nor comfortable with you. So most people use an indirect opener, try to convey status and attractive qualities, build comfort, and then move into seduction.

However, if you are: 1) good looking, 2) high status, and you are capable of conveying this quickly and nonverbally, you can skip wasting your time for 20 minutes and moving quickly into seduction. Whats important in direct game is the frame, you're not a needy guy hoping she'll like you, you're an attractive guy who is part of a good social circle who finds her attractive, but isn't invested into whether he can get her or not. The fact that you are physically attractive and socially proofed (group of attractive friends, with another girl, have a good reputation) will mean that the girl won't feel scared, afraid of losing status by showing attraction to you, or bored of you. Instead, you can approach a girl who you understand is attracted to you, or, if you're really good-looking / well-groomed, approach a girl who doesn't know you with the foreknowledge that soon, she will be attracted to you.

Basically: direct game works under a combination the following circumstances,
1) you're good looking
2) you have a good reputation
3) you have social value (socially proofed, accomplished in some impressive way)
4) the girl is already attracted to you (was checking you out, her friends were commenting about you in a positive way)

If these statement hold true, you can run direct game. But people who face 95% rejection rates are generally people who: 1) are not good-looking, and we can't all win in the gene pool, 2) approaching women who have no prior knowledge of them and feel instantly uncomfortable with the seduction, 3) not conveying status the way they should be. Usually its a good combination of all 3.

So. Word to the wise: if a girl finds you attractive already, and you feel you could skip on openers / etc and run direct game, then run direct game, but if she's the hot girl in the club, hasn't laid eyes on you yet, and you aren't hot enough / whatever enough to instantly have equal social status to her the moment you approach and make your impression, then direct game won't work for you.

Its all about the right tools for the right people, trying to Direct Game every girl you meet is just dumb. Even naturals who I'm friends with and would identify with direct game have a few safety nets: 1) they don't show too much attraction, if a girl rejects them, they don't let people see it, they coax it into smooth social interaction, 2) they direct game women who they know they can get. They don't make fools out of themselves by spitting game at a girl who doesn't know them and won't have a positive initial view of their status.

To direct game, you need to have your **** together. Women will pick up on status clues quickly, you can either indirectly hint your status to her with different gambits, or quickly convey them with direct game, if you're running direct game on an attractive girl who doesn't know anything about you and you seem like you don't have your stuff together, you're not physically attractive, and you don't seem to have that much social status, then it just won't work (word to the wise: social status is more than body language, body language is something that gives you away when you **** up, you need actions to show status, a confident pose has less value then a normal pose sitting next to an attractive woman).

Direct Game requires women to quickly see you're attractive to let you game them, indirect game is for when women won't quickly see you as attractive, i.e., you're not they're type / not the best looking man in town / not part of their closed social circle, and so you do work to become attractive, and then transition into directish game. If you're not good-looking and high status, direct won't work for you. Get your **** in order, start working out, get a healthy tan, get a job, dress better, build a good and active social circle, and slowly you'll convey your status much better than working on your body language.

 

[ChrizZ]

I'm a fairly seasoned PUA now (still remember getting on this board a clueless AFC, learning jack ****, ignoring the community, getting hooked on MM a year later, and slowly building it up, but I digress) and I think direct game functions so well inside the Mystery Method, most people just don't understand it. See, to seduce a woman, she needs to feel attracted to you, and comfortable with you, if a woman doesn't know you and has no opinions on you yet, you can rest assured that she's neither attracted nor comfortable with you. So most people use an indirect opener, try to convey status and attractive qualities, build comfort, and then move into seduction.

However, if you are: 1) good looking, 2) high status, and you are capable of conveying this quickly and nonverbally, you can skip wasting your time for 20 minutes and moving quickly into seduction. Whats important in direct game is the frame, you're not a needy guy hoping she'll like you, you're an attractive guy who is part of a good social circle who finds her attractive, but isn't invested into whether he can get her or not. The fact that you are physically attractive and socially proofed (group of attractive friends, with another girl, have a good reputation) will mean that the girl won't feel scared, afraid of losing status by showing attraction to you, or bored of you. Instead, you can approach a girl who you understand is attracted to you, or, if you're really good-looking / well-groomed, approach a girl who doesn't know you with the foreknowledge that soon, she will be attracted to you.

Basically: direct game works under a combination the following circumstances,
1) you're good looking
2) you have a good reputation
3) you have social value (socially proofed, accomplished in some impressive way)
4) the girl is already attracted to you (was checking you out, her friends were commenting about you in a positive way)

If these statement hold true, you can run direct game. But people who face 95% rejection rates are generally people who: 1) are not good-looking, and we can't all win in the gene pool, 2) approaching women who have no prior knowledge of them and feel instantly uncomfortable with the seduction, 3) not conveying status the way they should be. Usually its a good combination of all 3.

So. Word to the wise: if a girl finds you attractive already, and you feel you could skip on openers / etc and run direct game, then run direct game, but if she's the hot girl in the club, hasn't laid eyes on you yet, and you aren't hot enough / whatever enough to instantly have equal social status to her the moment you approach and make your impression, then direct game won't work for you.

Its all about the right tools for the right people, trying to Direct Game every girl you meet is just dumb. Even naturals who I'm friends with and would identify with direct game have a few safety nets: 1) they don't show too much attraction, if a girl rejects them, they don't let people see it, they coax it into smooth social interaction, 2) they direct game women who they know they can get. They don't make fools out of themselves by spitting game at a girl who doesn't know them and won't have a positive initial view of their status.

I know it says somewhere in the VAH that if your frame is strong enough none of the rules apply. This should be the first line of the book because if your frame is strong enough you don't have to do any routines or pull rabbits out of your a$$ in order to DHV. If your frame is strong enough then you are a personified DHV.

I read your post and I have to say I have to disagree. I use "Direct Game" very successfully. I used to be totally clueless with the ladies until I completely changed my behavior. I stopped being an excuser and that is what direct game is all about.

It doesn't matter if you have social proof.

It doesn't matter if you are good looking.

It doesn't matter if you have a good reputation.

It doesn't matter if she is already attracted to you.

It doesn't matter if you have social proof.

Here is how I approach:

I see a girl I like. Doesn't matter if she is in a group or alone.

After that I immediately walk towards her and lock my eyes on her.

If her back is turned towards me I gently turn her around and gaze into her eyes.

After that I tell her: "I like you. I would love to get to know you. I want to talk to you one on one now to see what you are all about."

The next step I take is to isolate her immediately. If her friends try to CB me for whatever reason ( note: I have NEVER been CB by her friends when I approach like that)

I say to them: "Look girls. I really like your friend here and I would appreciate if I could talk to her for a few minutes because she is beautiful and I care for her."

After I isolated her I vibe with her and see if she if her personality meets my standards.

If we connect well I consider her gf material and try to go for the bounce. If that fails I just go for the kiss close and exchange numbers.

If we don't connect well I tell her: "Look, we both know this convo is dying down. There is no real chemistry between us. However I believe you are a very attractive woman and I'm a hell of a handsome fella so I suggest we hook up in the near future because you know what I like to do with attractive women?

"What?" she asks.

"I like to have hot, steamy and passionate SEX with them. As a matter of fact I want to have sex with YOU."

After that I try to go for the bounce. If that doesn't work out I just give her MY cell phone number and tell her to call me whenever she wants to exchange orgasms. Note that I say all this with a straight face and in a cool and calm manor and never excuse myself.

What I like about all this is that it never leaves me feeling angry or bitter afterwards and it's a win win situation for me.

To pull all that off you need to be very congruent and direct in every area of your life otherwise it won't work and she will see right through you.

Usually her friends even approach me and start giving me their phone numbers after that.

 

[ketostix]

I know it says somewhere in the VAH that if your frame is strong enough none of the rules apply. This should be the first line of the book because if your frame is strong enough you don't have to do any routines or pull rabbits out of your a$$ in order to DHV. If your frame is strong enough then you are a personified DHV.

I read your post and I have to say I have to disagree. I use "Direct Game" very successfully. I used to be totally clueless with the ladies until I completely changed my behavior. I stopped being an excuser and that is what direct game is all about.

It doesn't matter if you have social proof.

It doesn't matter if you are good looking.

It doesn't matter if you have a good reputation.

It doesn't matter if she is already attracted to you.

It doesn't matter if you have social proof.

Here is how I approach:

I see a girl I like. Doesn't matter if she is in a group or alone.

After that I immediately walk towards her and lock my eyes on her.

If her back is turned towards me I gently turn her around and gaze into her eyes.

After that I tell her: "I like you. I would love to get to know you. I want to talk to you one on one now to see what you are all about."

The next step I take is to isolate her immediately. If her friends try to CB me for whatever reason ( note: I have NEVER been CB by her friends when I approach like that)

I say to them: "Look girls. I really like your friend here and I would appreciate if I could talk to her for a few minutes because she is beautiful and I care for her."

After I isolated her I vibe with her and see if she if her personality meets my standards.

If we connect well I consider her gf material and try to go for the bounce. If that fails I just go for the kiss close and exchange numbers.

If we don't connect well I tell her: "Look, we both know this convo is dying down. There is no real chemistry between us. However I believe you are a very attractive woman and I'm a hell of a handsome fella so I suggest we hook up in the near future because you know what I like to do with attractive women?

"What?" she asks.

"I like to have hot, steamy and passionate SEX with them. As a matter of fact I want to have sex with YOU."

After that I try to go for the bounce. If that doesn't work out I just give her MY cell phone number and tell her to call me whenever she wants to exchange orgasms. Note that I say all this with a straight face and in a cool and calm manor and never excuse myself.

What I like about all this is that it never leaves me feeling angry or bitter afterwards and it's a win win situation for me.

To pull all that off you need to be very congruent and direct in every area of your life otherwise it won't work and she will see right through you.

Usually her friends even approach me and start giving me their phone numbers after that.

Yeah this is direct "game" and it's straight out off the direct board forum. It's the biggest bunch of crap I've ever read. It's not game at all its just complimenting and propositioning a girl and hoping one liked you anyway. You wouldn't even have to say any of those lines anyway. With this your just relying on your appearance and youth. If you can get any success with those cheesy lines, and that's all they are is lines, you could have even more success just making fun, witty and interesting conversation with girls, without all the compliments and telling her you want to have sex with her.

 

[MVPlaya]

ChrisZ, just checking: is that age underneath your nameplate accurate? Cause if we're talking college parties, I've seen the biggest losers and clueless types get laid frequently, I mean, it doesn't take much to give a girl the pleasure of the walk of shame the night after the mixer is over.

If you really do constantly have such success with direct game where do you think your success originates? Cause if a fat hobo walked up to a girl and locked eyes with her and said he wanted to get to know her believe me security bells are ringing in her friends heads and they will all run an evacuation mission to get her to safety. When you approach a girl instantly and she, and her friends, have to quickly decide on the spot whether to go with you or not, they do a little calculation in their head, and a large part of what comes next comes off what they're seeing. I have a ton of friends who are really succesful with girls, and it just so happens to be that every one of them whose big into natural direct game happens to also look pretty good. I've never seen an ugly guy pull it off on an attractive girl.

 

[xdreamz]

ok guys i have finally gave a little bit of direct game a chance....

it is definately effective! from my experience it really helps you get out of messy situation
for example:

me: you want to hang out sunday night?
her: lets just be friends / lets hang out on sunday morning instead
me: when we were hanging out last time i think what was between us was good. i want something more than friends
her: how about saturday night?

sometimes its pushing it but i use it as flattery as well

"when you talk i really don't listen to the words i just look and hearing you makes me want you more and more like i want to eat you from head to toe"
"lol"

"out of all the girls i met i like you the most"
"lets study together"


i find that you can use direct as indirect game as well

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...It doesn't matter if you have social proof.

It doesn't matter if you are good looking.

It doesn't matter if you have a good reputation.

It doesn't matter if she is already attracted to you.

It doesn't matter if you have social proof...

I agree. How does a woman who has never seen you before know things like your reputation and social proof? And for the ones that do, would you really want to be involved with her just because of what you do and who you know?

 

[xdreamz]

imo the confusion is if it is a form of supplicating ie giving compliments

it is not supplication if you use it the right way

 

[Phyzzle]

OMG, what a load of Key Board Jockeying crap. Take the hand of a beautiful girl you've never seen before, interrupt all her friends in mid-conversation, and say, "I am going to talk to her alone." Then pull her away??

Why, it sure works for Chrizz, as we see in this post from two weeks ago:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=131275

Uuum, uuuuh, wait a minute . . .

Anyways, I could swear I've seen sort of direct approaches on Keys to the VIP. Does anyone want to take a look for a good example? (I've already watched them, so I don't really want to again.)

 

[xdreamz]

none of you guys are comprehending anything. i don't give a **** what all you think *****es

i used it and it works see the examples i gave it can really work really guys it does. it's like a different paint stroke..

 

[Mad Manic]

I agree. How does a woman who has never seen you before know things like your reputation and social proof? And for the ones that do, would you really want to be involved with her just because of what you do and who you know?

I've never really believed in social proof tbh (for cold approaches), then again I've never had an elite social circle with full of hot babes so what do I know. When I was 18, I had a social circle from school and knew lots of guys and girls through this. It never helped though, sure I met some girls but it ain't a free ticket to anything. Infact, it's a very easy ticket to the "guy I know from school aka kind of a friend" zone.

Infact, I'll tell you this. Most of us 18 year olds at school were single and the girls were hooked up. They were hooked up with slightly older guys who they met randomly outside of school. The girls had their bf's and then socialised/went out for fun with girls and even guys from my school.

 

[xdreamz]

indirect game is POWER

direct game is STRENGTH.

 

[ketostix]

ok guys i have finally gave a little bit of direct game a chance....

it is definately effective! from my experience it really helps you get out of messy situation
for example:

me: you want to hang out sunday night?
her: lets just be friends / lets hang out on sunday morning instead
me: when we were hanging out last time i think what was between us was good. i want something more than friends
her: how about saturday night?

sometimes its pushing it but i use it as flattery as well

"when you talk i really don't listen to the words i just look and hearing you makes me want you more and more like i want to eat you from head to toe"
"lol"

"out of all the girls i met i like you the most"
"lets study together"


i find that you can use direct as indirect game as well

Your examples are very vague. I guess in the first example you already were seeing a girl and she gave you a sh!t test and you passed it with being "direct". I don't know what the rest of what you said was, but I thought this debate was about going from cold aproach to bedding the girl with direct approach. I don't think I've seen one truely direct LR but plenty of indirect ones.

And we have 18-19 year old virgins telling us how good direct works and that you don't need attraction or SP .

 

[ketostix]

First of all, it helps when you put a little edge on what it is you're saying. You don't walk up to her and tell her she has "gorgeous eyes". You tell her without getting up or walking over that she has a nice ass. You don't tell her she looks pretty in that sweater. You ask her if those things are real. What most of you guys are doing, the ones who don't think this works, you're being directly supplemental. You're not pulling direct game.

Second, it's a pull in, not an approach or a request; you're asking for something in a way that suggests you're not really asking. Direct game is when you tell a woman to stop walking and to come over to talk to you..and she does it. Direct game is when you're hanging out with two girls and you tell them out of nowhere to take their shirts off so you can see who has the better set of tits....and they do it, even when one of their boyfriends are in the room. Direct game is when you can do the same thing with two completely different women in a room full of people.... and they do it.

You don't have to hit them right out of the gates with it either. You can wait a few minutes. You can start off with a little indirect game and then nail them with it. You also have to have an intuitive judgement about people. You have to be able to read someone and just know that she or they will be cool with what you're about to do.

The key to it, what makes it all work, is that it gives a woman or women the impression that you are not afraid of, and not apologizing for being a typical man. In her head, it translates sexually. It gives her an assumption of what you're like in bed: BOLD.

Do it right, and she will be thinking GREAT SEX.

Do it wrong, and she will think you're PATHETIC.

You'll know which one she is thinking immediately after you say whatever it is you're going to say. If the results are positive, you're going to get laid.

You'll more than likely never get the results it is intended to get if you use sweetie-pie, AFC comments with no edge and no backbone.

What your saying isn't so bad, but you're putting a lot of vague qualifications on how direct is supposedly going to work and even changing it from how it's explained in the direct forums to a form of just fast sexual escalation without the romantic undertones. If you're saying be confident, bold and brazen about you sexuality that's fine. It doesn't mean you'll have more success than just being bold and confident without using sexual topics with her before you have her isolated.

 

[ketostix]

I agree. How does a woman who has never seen you before know things like your reputation and social proof? And for the ones that do, would you really want to be involved with her just because of what you do and who you know?

Well go to a nightclub tonight by yourself and see if no one notices. Then go with a friends and especially with a good looking female and see if other girls don't treat you way better.

 

[sandman6991]

I went 6/6 using Direct Game the other night.

Let's face it, if you say Direct Game DOESN'T work, then you either suck at it or are ugly.