Rollo Tomassi
Master Don Juan
Alpha is a state of mind, not a demographic.
Epic alpha...
- Thread starter Luthor Rex
- Start date
If women went for intelligence, Albert Einstein would have been a stud.FairShake said:
The biggest failures with women are actually guys who are very smart and I mean IQ up there in the 160+
Yes there are smart guys who learn the system.
But there is a connection between:
IT programmers, software engineers.
Scientists.
e.t.c
Who totally fail with women.
Some of the biggest failures men have with women, is when they ‘think too much’.
Women are not normally logical creatures, hence when someone with too much intelligence tries the mating game, he is operating on the prospect of logical analysis, when women do not operate on that plane of thinking at all.
Hence why very smart guys usually are the worst at meeting women.
And why you will see brainless thugs with attractive girls – since there not over analyzing the situation.
The reason this guy has potential is because he does not bend his frame at all – he talks slow, calm, he even throws out his own tests to the news women – He is not fazed by the TV crew, by the fact he is on TV – If he channelled that into gaming girls, he would go very far indeed.
Also most of the best looking girls seem to be dating douche-bags anyway -
A douche-bag has more chance of pulling poon that Albert Einstein ever did.
Super smart guys fail with women because the 'think too much' - it is that simple -
Hence douche-bags so to speak dont normally put brain into motion and act on instinct - which the smart guy will be trying to put rationality on it - "why am I finding this girl attractive", "what do I need to say", "will she like me".
Or will try to write a book on the female dynamic, whilst never having any real experiance - hence why places like this are underground and mainstream is full of menstral mush.
Guys with experiance can see this kids potential from a mile away.
Jonwon, you're right about a lot of things, just wanted to add something though.
Women, especially women who don't spread their legs based on just a mans physical appearance (generally what you'd call 'quality' women) also judge men based on their 'passion'. Their drive for life. How goal orientated a man is.
You'll find women like this in the older demographic when they've (women) have grown up a little more.
The 'Epic Alpha' in context, although alluring, just doesn't seem to give a crap about anything at all, which isn't a very good thing.
Women, especially women who don't spread their legs based on just a mans physical appearance (generally what you'd call 'quality' women) also judge men based on their 'passion'. Their drive for life. How goal orientated a man is.
You'll find women like this in the older demographic when they've (women) have grown up a little more.
The 'Epic Alpha' in context, although alluring, just doesn't seem to give a crap about anything at all, which isn't a very good thing.
LovelyLady
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Ummm...jonwon said:
Einstein was married twice, had innumerable affairs, women chasing after him, fathered a child out of wedlock... It doesn't seem like his intelligence hurt his "game" to me (although he did not stay loyal to his commitment to any one woman. I do not believe his inability to keep his word was due to his level of intelligence. But I digress...)
jonwon said:
It is not intelligence/high iq in and of itself that is the barrier - but rather what a man "does" with his intelligence.
Two men can receive the same pieces of information and arrive at two completely different conclusions.
The way a man's mind works will either resonate with the inner workings/values/operating system of a woman or it won't. Hence the difference between creating an initial "attraction" (visual) vs. genuine interest (who he is as a Man).
Cory's appeal to some adolescent boys and girls would most likely stem from his general demeanor of not caring - it is an identification with the rebelliousness and the quest for independence of adolescence.jonwon said:
There certainly are men with high iq's who also do not care what consequences their behaviors have on their friends, family, neighbors/community or partner, but that has more to do with their level of emotional development (or lack thereof), what skills they have (or have not ) developed to function successfully within their society, rather than their intellectual development.
The overanalyzing can be a sign of insecurity - but it does not automatically, logically follow that not caring (not being mindful/analytical reflective) is a sign of security/ being a secure/alpha male/man.
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You essentially upped your VALUE in her eyes by showing her that, if she wants you, she has to at times do things that you like to do. You are SOMETHING after all. You are NOT FREE. If she wants to hang with you, it's going to cost her something — time, effort, money.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.
LovelyLady said:
Case in point, IQ has little to do with the dating dynamic.
As for Albert E. The point was he wasn't a casanova by any degree, any back-street thug could have the same lay record with little effort.
It was a response to the fact that IQ has something to do with meeting women and your point is spot on, its how a man comes to the decision by using his IQ or lack-thereof.
But most Highly intelligent guys - like software Engineers dont normally seek out guidance to shape there choices when it comes to meeting the opposite sex.
Most PUA works-shops are taken up with IT experts - over 80% of workshops are taking up by really smart guys - not dumb jocks! or Douche-bags! That is telling in itself.
They will over think a situation, over-act - over-compensate.
I know I've seen it - they will lement about a situation for days.
Where as a guy with low IQ, half the things the smart guy is thinking about wont even register in his mind.
The guy with low IQ is operating on instinct, he is just acting has nature intended, seeing a women and going up to her and not even putting a scientific spin on it all - not trying to find the A that fits into B - or trying to find the route from A to B to C - He is just doing what he does because deep-down he has a desire to fuc* and thats his motivation.
Just like Money is not attributed to IQ - You dont need to be smart to be rich.
Same goes with pulling poon.
You dont need to be smart to score poon at all.
Granted a smart guy could make the system work in his favour, if he got out of his head once in a while.
But whilst he is studying seduction, that low IQ guy is out doing what he feels and not worrying about XY and Z.
That was the point of the post, hopefully this will make the point a little clearer.
Smart guys actually on average imo do worse when it comes to meeting women - because they 'over think' - and most of them don’t have guidance to channel that thought process and will stand and lement about 'what to do next' - whilst the guy with little IQ is just doing it without thinking of the consequences.
This place is full of smart guys - Douche-bags? Probably nowhere near on par! Douche-bags, thugs, low IQ guys are not lining up for seduction seminars, are not paying money for dating tips and don’t normally frequent these types of forums, because they just don’t 'think' this deeply about it.
Hence I stick to my point, being smart can actually hurt your game - and in adding to it from your post - unless it’s being tempered -
It’s not his lack of caring that is attractive about Cory - you miss the point and are seeing this from a female perspective -
It's his way he handles himself, the way he holds himself, the way he projects himself - the ability to be cool, calm and collected no matter whats thrown at him, the ability to be ice-cool to the point where the news women lost her state control, her frame.
You won’t understand because you looking at it from a perspective of how he effected other people. This is not about the repercussions and the consequences for others or his cool-ness because of that act - this is looking at it through a female lens whilst missing the whole thing completely - which proves women don’t even know what works on them, when it used on them -
The way he holds himself, the way he acts - the pea ****ing, the ****y demeanour - the not giving a fcuk attitude - the cool, calm collected nature of how he acts. I don’t expect you to understand, women normally don’t - until that sort of thing sucks them in after they have tossed him some shi* about his glasses.
Do you actually know guys who are that smart? I work with them (scientists, engineers and IT professionals). Guys who are at that level tend to overdevelop both intellectually and socially. The two biggest pimps I know through work are 150+ IQ - one is a Professor of Physics (who, in his late 50s, still attracts young undergrads) and the other is a Linux System Administrator (late 20s) who bangs strippers and burlesque dancers and looks & dresses like a rock star (he's a Natural too).jonwon said:
Have a look at this guy for example: http://www.jewishachievement.com/bios/feynman.html
He's fairly typical for a super smart scientist who's also a notorious womanizer.
Those guys may not get as many women (if you go by quantity) as, say, a rock star or a sports star (or insert your favourite natural here) but they get a fair share and are far from struggling with women. It's only because they spend so much time on their career & research that they don't have time to get more women (not that it's their life goal).
It is the smart, but only just above average smart, nerdy guys in those fields that are socially awkward and fail with women, not the very top dogs. Remember that the top guys have the highest status & respect in their field and automatically have sky high confidence, and they often get to that position because they are very good communicators (you don't get to climb to the top if you suck with people). Those things are very attractive to women.
It's true, that many intellectuals, especially the really smart ones aren't good with women. I see it everywhere and I was exactly like this too. One of the best students in my year, A's and B's everywhere but I couldn't even get a kiss from a girl.
It's also true, that thugs do better than that...
BUT:
Is there any reason to become a thug because of that? No way!
Why limit our potential?
While it should be near impossible for a thug to become smart, it's very possible for an intelectual to learn how to handle women.
This is what being a Don Juan is for me: Using my intellect as an advantage. Good intellect equals a better humor (more words, etc..). Intellect and the achievements gained through it create more confidence.
Why should I try to be "alpha" like this guy, when I can be a responsible leader, not so much through domination, but charisma, charm, mastery and a sharp wit?
We have more potential than this.
EDIT:
Yeah, Jitterbug, but those are the few ones right at the top. The so called intelligencia is much bigger.
It's also true, that thugs do better than that...
BUT:
Is there any reason to become a thug because of that? No way!
Why limit our potential?
While it should be near impossible for a thug to become smart, it's very possible for an intelectual to learn how to handle women.
This is what being a Don Juan is for me: Using my intellect as an advantage. Good intellect equals a better humor (more words, etc..). Intellect and the achievements gained through it create more confidence.
Why should I try to be "alpha" like this guy, when I can be a responsible leader, not so much through domination, but charisma, charm, mastery and a sharp wit?
We have more potential than this.
EDIT:
Yeah, Jitterbug, but those are the few ones right at the top. The so called intelligencia is much bigger.
Rollo Tomassi
Master Don Juan
Alpha is a state of mind, not a demographic (and that includes IQ too)
LovelyLady
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Well, I guess I misunderstood what you meant when you said this:jonwon said:
as meaning he had few sexual encounters, when in actuality - he had innumerable ones. I had assumed that is what you meant by "stud". Thank you for clearing that up that that is not what you meant.jonwon said:
Wow, 80% that is a fascinating statistic I was not aware of. And if, as you suggest, most intelligent guys don't normally seek out guidance, there must be a huge number of untapped customers for the PUA Industry still out there.jonwon said:
Do you think it could also be possible that more of them (IT "types") attend the seminars because their payscales are higher, so as a demographic, more of them can afford the seminars? (As an aside... I am not saying that one must have a high iq to make make $ )
Do you think it could also be possible that the social settings of the seminars also cater to the comfort zone of the intellectual/educated man as a market demographic for the product they are selling? In other words, isn't it possible that "IT brainiac types" could simply be more comfortable in a seminar setting than the men who have fewer experiences in a general boardroom/intellectual setting, so they would be more likely to gravitate to those events?
I disagree with this. There are a kazillion "Douche-bags, thugs, low IQ guys" that are insecure and question their every move around women. They may not be at the seminars... but it is my experience that intelligent people are generally people who have developed the skill of seeking out sources of the answers to the questions that they have... it is not the question that makes one "stupid", but trather the inability to source the correct answer that separates the intelligent from the unintelligent.jonwon said:
I would agree, if you are saying that a disconnect/incongruence between the man's mind, body, and emotional self is the same as not being tempered.jonwon said:
I think where you and I also agree is that how a man's mind works/how he manifests his process of reasoning - that determines whether a woman finds him interesting.
I understand that the way he handled himself while being interviewed through an auditory feed impresses you. I agree that she was initially thrown by his statements that he hadn't thought about things before doing them - I don't think she anticipated him coming right out and saying he didn't even have the foresight to consider the consequences of his choices. Even at 16, there is a certain level of awareness most people consider rational to expect of teenagers. He failed to meet that basic social expectation of development.jonwon said:
I also agree that the "frame" was broken - but I actually believe he broke the frame he was trying to play at. He could not look her in the eye. Avoiding eye contact is a submissive trait. That is what I believe "threw" her - and that is why I believe she honed in on that weakness of his.
Actually,I was talking about how his lack of caring as a manifestation of his immaturity, I was not talking about it from the perspective of the effects themselves:jonwon said:
LovelyLady said:
I can't really address this because I believe you have based this on a false premise/misunderstanding of what I said - as I addressed just above herejonwon said:
I, of course, am looking at this through a female lens - I am a woman. But the implication that my being a woman disqualifies me from being able to understand what attracts me and what interests me in a man seems a foolish one, if that is in fact what you are trying to say here.
It is my experience there are just as many women as there are men who have an understanding of what makes them tick - and what makes the opposite gender tick as well.
I addressed his demasculinized "peacocking" in an earlier post in this thread regarding the watering down of socially accepted standards of masculine appearance and fashion/ blending of gender identification in dress as being typical of the skins party and how it serves to attract latent homosexuals without having the stigma of being called or considered "fully gay", if you will.jonwon said:
Also, I do understand why his "acting cool" under the pressure of an auditory interview impresses some people and I understand why that is perceived as alpha - but again, I think it is important to take in the entire context of the person and the situation the behavior was exhibited in, before arriving at the conclusion that he is "alpha".
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Well I'm here to tell you there is such a magic wand. Something that will make you almost completely irresistible to any woman you "point it" at. Something guaranteed to fill your life with love, romance, and excitement.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.
What you say has a lot truth not the total truth.jonwon said:
Many guys with above average intelligence (myself included) do just fine with women. A number of those that don't are suffering from some form of Asperger's or Attention Deficit Disorder both of which seem to come along with intelligence at a high rate AND can adversely effect your success with women and people in general.
In fact, I'd go as far as to say that many of the guys who are best with women are brilliant although also socially adept. But in many social circles intelligence and creativity are pretty appreciated as much as "Umm sorry?" is. Depends on age, geographic region, class, etc.
Get in where you fit in my nerdy brethren. I'm proof you are loved.
Well, here's why you shouldn't take Roissy's Alpha definition seriously:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/john-edwards-is-bringing-big-love-back/
He's calling John Edwards an Alpha. Alpha my arse. The guy married a broad who fell off the ugly tree hitting every branch on her way down, and now is cheating on her with an equally old and fugly broad. And he's up for an expensive divorce, so the first fugly could bend him over and show him how it's done.
Yeah, very Alpha.
Next thing you know, he's gonna call Bill Clinton an Alpha because he cheated on his ugly old wife with fat chicks.
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/john-edwards-is-bringing-big-love-back/
He's calling John Edwards an Alpha. Alpha my arse. The guy married a broad who fell off the ugly tree hitting every branch on her way down, and now is cheating on her with an equally old and fugly broad. And he's up for an expensive divorce, so the first fugly could bend him over and show him how it's done.
Yeah, very Alpha.
Next thing you know, he's gonna call Bill Clinton an Alpha because he cheated on his ugly old wife with fat chicks.
I've met 4 people from this board in person (Karma, Rollo, Rogue (Deep Dish), and Aenigma), and although ALL of them are highly intelligent, they are far from nerds.FairShake said:
Just goes to show how many false assumptions there are floating around about posters on this board.
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"Do you think it could also be possible that more of them (IT "types") attend the seminars because their payscales are higher, so as a demographic, more of them can afford the seminars? (As an aside... I am not saying that one must have a high iq to make make $ ) "
From what I understand, Really smart guys are normally socially inept - they over-think. Not normally a bad thing, but (and yes there are always exceptions to the rule) Super smart guys usually operate on the logical angle and try to make the dating dynamic about that - they are trying to find the 'magic code' that works, instead of actually doing 'effort' - they wait for the 'magic thoery'.
I believe Super Smart guys can be the best at picking up chicks, when they learn the theory and put into practice what they have learned, but most smart guys - either think too deeply or dont find the right sources -
The worst types of guys I have known with women are really smart guys - These are the types of guys who try to buy with manipulation, will be friend zoned and will keep doing the A and the B and the C, even if it is the wrong set of coding - they will just try to shift it around a little bit.
Take the girl for a walk in the park - ok not working, i'll add in a free meal on me or maybe a bunch of flowers.
The thug on the other hand is being sexual, not making excuses for the way he acts and trying to game the girl on a primitive sexual level.
Super smart guys normally slot into the 'provider' frame and try to go down the route - yes it works but only if that super smart guy is actually making money (being rich and smart do not normally go hand in hand).
You have University Educated people working packing shelves in local supermarkets, e.t.c - being smart does not make you rich or good with women - it just means you can figure stuff out with the right 'guidence'.
So no I dont think smart guys earn more - They pay for seminars because they are looking for the magic 'code' the logical solution to something that is very much unlogical (but can be applied through logic in terms of the 'game' and other seduction tips and techniques).
But for every sedution seminar, for every 'mystery' there are average douche-bag naturals who have the same lay record if not more, who simply do not think this deeply about seduction.
----
"Do you think it could also be possible that the social settings of the seminars also cater to the comfort zone of the intellectual/educated man as a market demographic for the product they are selling? In other words, isn't it possible that "IT brainiac types" could simply be more comfortable in a seminar setting than the men who have fewer experiences in a general boardroom/intellectual setting, so they would be more likely to gravitate to those events"?
I've watched some of mystery's stuff, he will point into the crowd and say 'Let me guess you work in IT" - most of them do.
The point is, he is catering to a market - I believe he set up, or workshops are set up to cater to a certain market, not the other way around - the customer created a demand and he fed it, much like all the other seduction stuff out there.
----
"I disagree with this. There are a kazillion "Douche-bags, thugs, low IQ guys" that are insecure and question their every move around women. They may not be at the seminars... but it is my experience that intelligent people are generally people who have developed the skill of seeking out sources of the answers to the questions that they have... it is not the question that makes one "stupid", but trather the inability to source the correct answer that separates the intelligent from the unintelligent".
Yes there are, but the same can be said for the super smart guy too. IQ like I said is not a Perquisite for scoring poon, unless channelled.
------
"I would agree, if you are saying that a disconnect/incongruence between the man's mind, body, and emotional self is the same as not being tempered.
I think where you and I also agree is that how a man's mind works/how he manifests his process of reasoning - that determines whether a woman finds him interesting".
I find that a women bends to a man, I.e a man is very much a 'center stone' a rock so to speak - a force in nature so powerful her feminine core is sucked in. Hence why Alpha's who stand up for themselves, who have rock solid confidence, scream of man who can weather a storm, who can be a rock for her flaying emotions - Yes they may not agree with everything, but a womens core will feel buffed by the solid embrace of an Alpha man - This is the sort of thing that is written about in most romance novels- The man is very much an Alpha and the women submits to his core. Never accountable, she is just caught up in it all, the man very much to blame, she is an innocent, caught up in her raging emotions - Beta men simply do not provide those feelings in women, because they bend and shift like a reed in the wind.
-----
Final point:
None of it was acting, that was the point - it was no act - it's how he is, its who he is. He isn't acting or preforming, most beta guys would have broke at the first second - this is no act - its in his core - most people would have failed the first hurdle - his motivation is irrelivent (a Beta would have cracked regardless of the motivation) - he showed no fear, he was just his ****y confident self and made no 'apology' for that fact.
"Do you think it could also be possible that more of them (IT "types") attend the seminars because their payscales are higher, so as a demographic, more of them can afford the seminars? (As an aside... I am not saying that one must have a high iq to make make $ ) "
From what I understand, Really smart guys are normally socially inept - they over-think. Not normally a bad thing, but (and yes there are always exceptions to the rule) Super smart guys usually operate on the logical angle and try to make the dating dynamic about that - they are trying to find the 'magic code' that works, instead of actually doing 'effort' - they wait for the 'magic thoery'.
I believe Super Smart guys can be the best at picking up chicks, when they learn the theory and put into practice what they have learned, but most smart guys - either think too deeply or dont find the right sources -
The worst types of guys I have known with women are really smart guys - These are the types of guys who try to buy with manipulation, will be friend zoned and will keep doing the A and the B and the C, even if it is the wrong set of coding - they will just try to shift it around a little bit.
Take the girl for a walk in the park - ok not working, i'll add in a free meal on me or maybe a bunch of flowers.
The thug on the other hand is being sexual, not making excuses for the way he acts and trying to game the girl on a primitive sexual level.
Super smart guys normally slot into the 'provider' frame and try to go down the route - yes it works but only if that super smart guy is actually making money (being rich and smart do not normally go hand in hand).
You have University Educated people working packing shelves in local supermarkets, e.t.c - being smart does not make you rich or good with women - it just means you can figure stuff out with the right 'guidence'.
So no I dont think smart guys earn more - They pay for seminars because they are looking for the magic 'code' the logical solution to something that is very much unlogical (but can be applied through logic in terms of the 'game' and other seduction tips and techniques).
But for every sedution seminar, for every 'mystery' there are average douche-bag naturals who have the same lay record if not more, who simply do not think this deeply about seduction.
----
"Do you think it could also be possible that the social settings of the seminars also cater to the comfort zone of the intellectual/educated man as a market demographic for the product they are selling? In other words, isn't it possible that "IT brainiac types" could simply be more comfortable in a seminar setting than the men who have fewer experiences in a general boardroom/intellectual setting, so they would be more likely to gravitate to those events"?
I've watched some of mystery's stuff, he will point into the crowd and say 'Let me guess you work in IT" - most of them do.
The point is, he is catering to a market - I believe he set up, or workshops are set up to cater to a certain market, not the other way around - the customer created a demand and he fed it, much like all the other seduction stuff out there.
----
"I disagree with this. There are a kazillion "Douche-bags, thugs, low IQ guys" that are insecure and question their every move around women. They may not be at the seminars... but it is my experience that intelligent people are generally people who have developed the skill of seeking out sources of the answers to the questions that they have... it is not the question that makes one "stupid", but trather the inability to source the correct answer that separates the intelligent from the unintelligent".
Yes there are, but the same can be said for the super smart guy too. IQ like I said is not a Perquisite for scoring poon, unless channelled.
------
"I would agree, if you are saying that a disconnect/incongruence between the man's mind, body, and emotional self is the same as not being tempered.
I think where you and I also agree is that how a man's mind works/how he manifests his process of reasoning - that determines whether a woman finds him interesting".
I find that a women bends to a man, I.e a man is very much a 'center stone' a rock so to speak - a force in nature so powerful her feminine core is sucked in. Hence why Alpha's who stand up for themselves, who have rock solid confidence, scream of man who can weather a storm, who can be a rock for her flaying emotions - Yes they may not agree with everything, but a womens core will feel buffed by the solid embrace of an Alpha man - This is the sort of thing that is written about in most romance novels- The man is very much an Alpha and the women submits to his core. Never accountable, she is just caught up in it all, the man very much to blame, she is an innocent, caught up in her raging emotions - Beta men simply do not provide those feelings in women, because they bend and shift like a reed in the wind.
-----
Final point:
None of it was acting, that was the point - it was no act - it's how he is, its who he is. He isn't acting or preforming, most beta guys would have broke at the first second - this is no act - its in his core - most people would have failed the first hurdle - his motivation is irrelivent (a Beta would have cracked regardless of the motivation) - he showed no fear, he was just his ****y confident self and made no 'apology' for that fact.
Never try to read a woman's mind. It is a scary place. Ignore her confusing signals and mixed messages. Assume she is interested in you and act accordingly.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.
Negative_Nancy
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No body said that thugs can't be smart yo
I know a few highly intelligent thugs myself.
they'd be something if they only applied themselves
I know a few highly intelligent thugs myself.
they'd be something if they only applied themselves
Rollo Tomassi
Master Don Juan
Once again, Alpha is a state of mind, not a demographic. Edwards is very much an Alpha. He's unprincipled, narcissistic and irresponsible, but he's every bit an Alpha.Jitterbug said:
Alpha ≠ DJ
Some of the most heinous men you'd ever want to know are also the most Alpha, while some of the most principled, ethical and respectable men are the worst Betas.
Luthor Rex
Master Don Juan
It's because like attracts like in human mating. Women want the men who they can most identify with. Since women can't identify with the high IQ guys, then the high IQ guys have to go to these workshops so they can learn to fake the retarded behavior women so love.jonwon said:
Let's leave moral debate to the side please and look at the facts.Rollo Tomassi said:
Edward, a good looking, powerful man is fvcking bottom of the barrels fugly women. He's even risking his political career just for some ugly old poon.
Alpha? Puh-lease. That's Beta with a HUGE B.
Alpha may not be a demographic, but it's not purely a state of mind either. You gotta get at least some results to go with all that imagined crap inside your head.
An Alpha politician who cheats on his wife with other women - best example is Silvio Belusconi, the Italian PM. The man is over 70 years old and he's still involved with young hottie models. He even makes his wife apologize to him for b!tching about it, and his kids support him.
American politicians should learn from their European equivalents.
