Don't take online dating too seriously

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

Easily. Cold approach is about more than looks. Online dating is just about looks.

So I can look like a hobo and be successful at cold approaching lol?

 

[SW15]

I find it really hard to believe that someone can be a God at cold approaching and somehow suck at OLD so bad that they bring up their frustration constantly and consistently

Easily. Cold approach is about more than looks. Online dating is just about looks.

In terms of "sucking" at online dating, *everyone* sucks at online dating. Everyone is dating down due to the supply/demand issue. Even the top tier guys using it are dating down to lower quality than what they could get in real life. Having said that, it does work for people that have the sufficient look(like 8 or 9+). They don't have to date down that far and who can blame them for not wanting to waste time approaching or networking when they can easily hook up online.

I bet I would have a 0% success rate at cold approaching lol. At least with OLD, I have a chance.

@oldmanofthesea has acknowledged before what @LARaiders85 mentions about men dating down on swipe apps. Even PUA Krauser has referenced the phenomenon while exposing Caleb Jones (Blackdragon/Alpha Male 2.0) as a cuck.

BlackDragon is a pathetic delusional cuck | Krauser PUA

"He’s (Caleb) using online dating which, as every man who cold approaches will attest, always leads to a drop of a point or two (minimum) from cold approach"

I have even mentioned this before when discussing sand volleyball as a pickup option. See quote below.

For a 6'0"+ guy with a solid physique and decent volleyball skills, I'd recommend volleyball for pickup. I'd recommend sand over indoor. However, for the 6'0"+ guy with a good physique, I don't think that sand volleyball is any more efficient than swipe apps or random approaching at bars. That type of guy is going to have success in all formats. It's a matter of how much screen time he wants to put in on his smartphone vs. how much real life approaching he wants to do. I think it would be more fun for a 6'0"+ guy with sand volleyball skill to pick up women through volleyball than to sit on Tinder/Bumble/Hinge and swipe. It'd be a better use of time for that guy to play volleyball in terms of getting longer term relationships. That'd be the use case where I'd recommend volleyball over the swipe apps. It's a realistic scenario for a 6'2" guy to a get a 5'9"-6'0" volleyball playing girlfriend and that scenario has a better chance of lasting longer than flings with Tinderellas, most of whom are 5'6" and under.

A lot of success in online dating is a function of looks, whereas approaching strangers considers looks and personality factors. Additionally, a man will stand out more with approaching a woman in person. Today, the typical woman has a swipe queue of hundreds of men on an app if she's using one. Her DMs on Instagram/Twitter/LinkedIn are full of men looking to get sex from her. She's likely getting approached less in-person than what she's getting on a swipe app and in her social media (depending on her platforms and level of social media activity).

 

[Dr.Suave]

I am not saying this is the case 100% of the time, but I am sure it is most of the time.

This sounds fair. Even a someone who prefers OLD over cold approach or other stuff, I can agree with this for sure.

 

[Dr.Suave]

OLD is trash for the most part though

Yes. It often felt like looking for a needle in a haystack

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

@oldmanofthesea has acknowledged before what @LARaiders85 mentions about men dating down on swipe apps. Even PUA Krauser has referenced the phenomenon while exposing Caleb Jones (Blackdragon/Alpha Male 2.0) as a cuck.

Men date down in every method because the dating game is run by women to put it bluntly. Just as you can date up in social circle or cold approach, you can easily date down in those methods from fatigue or peer pressure from the group. My issue is that people see tiny friction in the swipe apps and blow it up and ignore the cons in the other methods of dating.

 

[SW15]

the cons in the other methods of dating.

There was a reason Match.com was created in 1995, which essentially started online dating websites. There's an argument that the early players in the online game created their services because there were flaws in the market at that time, the cons in other methods of dating as you state it. I see Match.com in 1995 as a reaction primarily to the bar scenes of the 1970s-1990s. In the 1970s-early 1990s, there were also personal ads in newspapers too and those had a really bad reputation in those days. If you were doing personal ads in 1990, you had some real problems.

Wheat Waffles illustrated the cons of nightclubs in the video below, and I think his video is applicable to all nightlife venues, both bars and nightclubs.

Bars have the ratio problems commonly found on swipe apps. I'm not sure if it is to the same degree, but the ratio problem in bars is real.

Approaching in non-bar venues is not an easy path either.

Social circles take years to construct to get them viable for dating, and aren't applicable for a lot of men. It is possible for men to have male friends and not have a good social circle. Social circles as adults come down to....

• Your parents not relocating you during your K-12 years
• You not being a social outcast during your K-12 years
• You choosing to live in the same geographical area as your K-12 years

If you can meet those 3 criteria, you are best positioned for social circle success. If not, it's going to be more difficult to have a viable social circle in dating.

Social circle is great for getting a girlfriend. Pay close attention to the words "a girlfriend". That means one girlfriend. If you're looking for an extended relationship (2-5 years or more), your best bet for getting that with the least amount of grief and frustration is social circle. Many men who get social circle girlfriends tend to retain those girlfriends for a long time and often beyond the useful life of the relationship. A lot of the social circle girlfriend guys are beta males and beta males operate from a scarcity mindset. It's common to see a 10+ year relationship from social circle which does include a marriage proposal.

The biggest problem with social circle is sustainability over a longer period of time as an unmarried male. Social circle game is designed for men who don’t relocate much and are looking for an LTR with marriage and babies. Social circles have a way of getting pissed off at men who continually exchange girlfriends without marriage or babies, even if the relationships are semi-long (1-4 years). After 2 or so instances of medium term relationships, the social circle will run dry. Social circles are more forgiving if you have a divorce, especially a childless divorce. Remember that most social circles operate with a blue pill/feminine ideal approach to relationships. Most social circles don’t like guys that are openly red or black pill, though you probably can get away with mentioning some of the red pill beliefs without outright mentioning a red pill content creator or a well known PUA.

Most men who don’t have social circles aren’t red pill guys. They are blue pill guys who have happened to relocate multiple times in their lives. Let’s also remember that there are red and black pill guys who have moved around too. Relocations weaken social circles, regardless of ideology.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

Are the top women you've dated from OLD?

All of my LTRs are from OLD, I quit approaching women in college after I turned 21 because I hated Bar game with a passion and parties started getting busted by the cops more so. I've never been graced with these glamorous social circle girls and I'm black, so OLD just worked out better for me in the long run.

 

[pipeman84]

Even PUA Krauser has referenced the phenomenon while exposing Caleb Jones (Blackdragon/Alpha Male 2.0) as a cuck.

BlackDragon is a pathetic delusional cuck | Krauser PUA

"He’s (Caleb) using online dating which, as every man who cold approaches will attest, always leads to a drop of a point or two (minimum) from cold approach"

I looked up this PUA and seen some of his infields on YouTube. Jesus Christ, they're cringy AF. Man, I understand if for some strange reason someone actually likes doing stuff, after all there are all kinds of weird hobbies out there. But to go through all this just for the remote chance of getting some meaningless sex is demeaning beyond words.

 

[DreamAgain]

It does work better for some people for various reasons. I have a friend that is better on paper than he is in person. He does well online because he can attract his niche. I also have a couple of friends with what i would describe as very nonthreatening looks that somehow pull online. They look very safe. Finally, online dating works well in NYC for just about everyone.

Most men, though, are going perform as I described. MUCH worse results, if any. My average match online is like a 4 and I date 8s IRL.

Good point.

This is why @Jake_Gyllenhaal69 likes online, he can filter for niches that are attracted to him quicker, where as it is much more difficult in person to find them.

I also fare much better in person than online, and I find girls I meet from OLD look worse than on pictures 99% of the time. Girls from online actually told me they were surprised I looked exactly like my pictures, some even say I look better.

Really the answer is I dont look better but in person the combination of body language, just normal interactions put a girl at ease much faster than thumb gymnastics on her iPhone.

 

[corrector]

You know things are really bad when the likes of @SW15 are parroting valid black-pill points from Wheat Waffles. By this time, I'm assuming most people who have access to youtube and are making these types of threads probably have already seen Wheat Waffles as he's so popular.

 

[Snag87]

If you're not a bad looking dude, it's good for getting laid. I've yet to find a woman online who I stayed in contact with for more than a month. It either fizzles out or one of us ghosts the other.

Yea, not being bad-looking isn't going to cut it. You have to be good-looking at minimum.

 

[sangheilios]

All of my LTRs are from OLD, I quit approaching women in college after I turned 21 because I hated Bar game with a passion and parties started getting busted by the cops more so. I've never been graced with these glamorous social circle girls and I'm black, so OLD just worked out better for me in the long run.

Some women may be looking for a male that is kind of unique. I know a mixed race, black and white, guy that used to live in my area that did really well on OLD. I live in AZ and it's either white or hispanic, a mixed-race guy like him was very unusual and stood out. He wasn't even really a chad type, he was over 6' tall but had an average build, but he was also in university and dressed like a white guy lol. A lot of white women would be much more comfortable going out with someone like this than say a black man that gives off urban vibes. It worked for him because he basically appealed to a woman in a niche market and he was unique and unusual.

 

[sangheilios]

It does work better for some people for various reasons. I have a friend that is better on paper than he is in person. He does well online because he can attract his niche. I also have a couple of friends with what i would describe as very nonthreatening looks that somehow pull online. They look very safe. Finally, online dating works well in NYC for just about everyone.

Most men, though, are going perform as I described. MUCH worse results, if any. My average match online is like a 4 and I date 8s IRL.

I think your location definitely plays a big part in it. Over Christmas I was travelling and when I was at the airport between connecting flights I had gotten likes/matches when there for literally less than a few hours. I've been running tinder as a social experiment and just had it on my phone, I wasn't even swiping or anything. I could totally see why a place like NYC would work, though I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there.

 

[Gamisch]

There was a reason Match.com was created in 1995, which essentially started online dating websites. There's an argument that the early players in the online game created their services because there were flaws in the market at that time, the cons in other methods of dating as you state it. I see Match.com in 1995 as a reaction primarily to the bar scenes of the 1970s-1990s. In the 1970s-early 1990s, there were also personal ads in newspapers too and those had a really bad reputation in those days. If you were doing personal ads in 1990, you had some real problems.

Wheat Waffles illustrated the cons of nightclubs in the video below, and I think his video is applicable to all nightlife venues, both bars and nightclubs.

Bars have the ratio problems commonly found on swipe apps. I'm not sure if it is to the same degree, but the ratio problem in bars is real.

Approaching in non-bar venues is not an easy path either.

Social circles take years to construct to get them viable for dating, and aren't applicable for a lot of men. It is possible for men to have male friends and not have a good social circle. Social circles as adults come down to....

• Your parents not relocating you during your K-12 years
• You not being a social outcast during your K-12 years
• You choosing to live in the same geographical area as your K-12 years

If you can meet those 3 criteria, you are best positioned for social circle success. If not, it's going to be more difficult to have a viable social circle in dating.

Social circle is great for getting a girlfriend. Pay close attention to the words "a girlfriend". That means one girlfriend. If you're looking for an extended relationship (2-5 years or more), your best bet for getting that with the least amount of grief and frustration is social circle. Many men who get social circle girlfriends tend to retain those girlfriends for a long time and often beyond the useful life of the relationship. A lot of the social circle girlfriend guys are beta males and beta males operate from a scarcity mindset. It's common to see a 10+ year relationship from social circle which does include a marriage proposal.

The biggest problem with social circle is sustainability over a longer period of time as an unmarried male. Social circle game is designed for men who don’t relocate much and are looking for an LTR with marriage and babies. Social circles have a way of getting pissed off at men who continually exchange girlfriends without marriage or babies, even if the relationships are semi-long (1-4 years). After 2 or so instances of medium term relationships, the social circle will run dry. Social circles are more forgiving if you have a divorce, especially a childless divorce. Remember that most social circles operate with a blue pill/feminine ideal approach to relationships. Most social circles don’t like guys that are openly red or black pill, though you probably can get away with mentioning some of the red pill beliefs without outright mentioning a red pill content creator or a well known PUA.

Most men who don’t have social circles aren’t red pill guys. They are blue pill guys who have happened to relocate multiple times in their lives. Let’s also remember that there are red and black pill guys who have moved around too. Relocations weaken social circles, regardless of ideology.

Wheat waffles sounds like a lotta fun at parties...

 

[BillyPilgrim]

The girl in the OP sounds like a serial dater looking for a come-up.

 

[Hal9000]

The key is to build an attraction, or at least some familiarity with each other, before you meet, which is admittedly somewhat impossible with some women. Then, as long as you both show up looking like the other expected (which once again is a potential minefield) you don't have nearly the awkwardness when you meet.

 

[Stanley]

My limited time on OLD proved fruitful and i'm currently seeing a girl off it, but it felt so fake. I got matches and girls wanted to chat, but I don't feel like having penpals. Some chicks were TOO forward to the point where I feel like my dong would be radioactive if i pursued em.

Most women on OLD are there for attention and to feed their self esteem, a rare hookup or date here and there as well. After a couple messages if I liked what I saw I just left them my number and stopped talking to them on the app. If they didn't respond I didn't care, a few girls were upset I stopped talking to them on the app as well. Attention is a currency, i'm not going to throw it into the void for a girls ego.

I think OLD has its uses for sure and if you're attractive you won't struggle looking for mindless sex. Relationships? Not really...agree do not take it seriously as most women aren't either.

 

[pipeman84]

I agree 100%, it's good for hook ups but awful if you are looking for a "connection".

This article is pretty accurate.

Why Online Dating Is Weird And Unnatural And Doesn’t Work (Updated For 2021) – Double Trust Dating

I read that article last year and it resonated with me. I fully agree that OLD is unnatural if one is looking for connection in the romantic sense, chemistry...if one is looking for sex via apps or roomates type of relationship via various dating sites, then OLD should work.

 

[Snag87]

If you're not a bad looking dude, it's good for getting laid. I've yet to find a woman online who I stayed in contact with for more than a month. It either fizzles out or one of us ghosts the other.

Upon reflection I realized that in a decade of online dating I've only had sex with 25 or so women and have had a grand total of two women stick around longer than 45 days...

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

I think the common mistake I am noticing is that you guys are treating OLD the same way as Daygame or Cold Approach. You need to make the exact opposite approach to OLD than you do with Cold Approach because OLD has ZERO barriers to entry and easily accessible. You don't know if this girl is Catfishing. You don't know if this girl is actually on the app for attention or not. I'll just go ahead and make a separate post because I have a hour to kill.