Does this mean I'm facially unnattractive?

[JJ123x]

There's something I've noticed as I walk around campus, and that's the fact that most girls don't keep or maintain eye contact with me, or even really look at me, unless I'm wearing a fitted top (I've been working out for almost 5 years and fairly muscular). So I've come to the conclusion that even though a few girls in the past have said I'm 'cute' I must be nothing special facially, or only good looking to a few chicks and not the majority. Good looking guys always get eye contact/looks don't they?

 

[RedZone]

Usually it is a pretty good sign a chick is into you if she makes quick eye contact and looks away and maybe even blushes...It's when they avoid you completely where a problem might lie.

 

[runningonice]

Same thing happens to me, but I notice younger girls and much older women looking at me. I also get told a lot on dating sites "You're not ugly by any stretch of the imagination, just not the type I go for." Younger women (meaning teens, early 20s) see me as "the cute mysterious older guy" but women my age and don't see me as dateable since I don't have a really masculine face and don't have pretty boy looks to make up for it.

So don't worry about being ugly...probably just in that 6/6.5 range facially...the equivalent of a plain jane.

 

[slaog]

It could also be because of your body language. Have you a confident walk? Do you stare too hard at girls? A simple thing like that could be the reason.

 

[Exhumed]

Or even a 7 or an 8...most people don't make strong eye contact with strangers on the street. And just like we guys only check out 9's and 10's (unless it's a girl with a really cute ass or breasts who is otherwise average) she's probably not going to check you out if you're average or a bit above average. Plus women aren't just attracted to appearance, so really she might have no idea how attracted she is to you until you start talking

 

[Iceberg]

There's something I've noticed as I walk around campus, and that's the fact that most girls don't keep or maintain eye contact with me, or even really look at me, unless I'm wearing a fitted top (I've been working out for almost 5 years and fairly muscular). So I've come to the conclusion that even though a few girls in the past have said I'm 'cute' I must be nothing special facially, or only good looking to a few chicks and not the majority. Good looking guys always get eye contact/looks don't they?

What do you mean by maintaining eye contact? Do you think good looking guys just get stared at as the walk around? Girls look at you and glance away. They're not just locking eyes with strangers like maniacs. At least not outside of the bars and clubs.

 

[runningonice]

My brother gets women gawking at him left and right, and he isn't jacked or anything. He also gets women doing the look away and blush thing...but plenty of women just stare at him like they've never seen a guy before.

 

[slaog]

My brother gets women gawking at him left and right, and he isn't jacked or anything. He also gets women doing the look away and blush thing...but plenty of women just stare at him like they've never seen a guy before.

Why? Is he a very confident person?

 

[runningonice]

They must really like his face. This has been happening since he was in elementary school. And now that he has the confidence to match and is 6' 4'', it's like watch out.

 

[J. Darko]

What do you mean by maintaining eye contact? Do you think good looking guys just get stared at as the walk around? Girls look at you and glance away. They're not just locking eyes with strangers like maniacs. At least not outside of the bars and clubs.

Yes they do. But we are too ugly or that or we wouldn't be here in the first place.

 

[Just a Shot Away]

Yes they do. But we are too ugly or that or we wouldn't be here in the first place.

J. Darko, why don't you clarify your statement a bit? The way you said that, it sounds like you're saying that the better-looking you are, the more girls you will acquire and vice versa. Since everyone here (with the exception of 3 or 4 guys) knows that to be untrue, would you mind explaining your sources on this? Credible sources, mind you. The people writing the journals and articles had better at least have ph.D's and a Nobel Prize or two would be nice.

 

[Iceberg]

Yes they do. But we are too ugly or that or we wouldn't be here in the first place.

Haha. You might be ugly. I'm quite the opposite. What brought me to this site many years ago was that I couldn't initiate game. I had to wait for women to approach me...which is far too inconsistent to rely on.

And as a fairly attractive man, I do get looks from women, but I don't walk down the streets of my city with chicks giving me a death stare the whole way. Do you do that when YOU see hot girls? Stare them down like a serial killer? I glance at them once to see if they respond, maybe then I look away. And then I approach or don't approach.

 

[3countriesPlan]

take care of yourself, live up to your name man, you are iceberg SLIM. Go out there and thrust yourself into these b1tches lives. Its your job to just go out there and make things happen. You can overcome anything when you are NGF, not giving a fvck.

 

[Poonani Maker]

I meet tons of women throughout my daily life, and there are maybe 1 in 50 who don't make eye contact. This is kinda rare. Then there are maybe 1 in 100 who don't get fixated (keep up the eye-contact...in the future). Some women, young AND old (really pathetic when an older woman does this, shows a stuck-upness or immaturity or hatefulness that Can't be explained. It's like she's the ONLY one in hundreds who NEVER comes around and makes eye contact or smiles - I'd call this kind either severely depressed or severely Rich/stuck-up but I'd go with depressed almost All of the time over too rich because rich women like me for a playtoy).

The funny thing is, these far and few betweeners don't REALIZE they're behavior is so rare, and, thus, so abnormal. Believe me guys, I've met probably a couple hundred thousand unique people in my lifetime. Eye contact From Women (mature women in business), should be the norm.

College is different, because most all these girls are immature, even the do-do birds who *think* they're mature.

 

[pinhas]

I found that where I now live (NYC) people don’t tend to make eye contact. I think it depends on the culture of the place. In Latin and Mediterranean countries people tend to make much more eye contact and share looks and smiles on the street.

Don’t take it personally; facial “attractiveness” is a very subjective thing, I learn this every time I go out with my friends and notice the reactions we get. I have a friend who most would agree that looks like a model, yet I know girls who said that in their opinion he is not good looking.

Some girls really don’t like the “pretty boy” look; I actually heard them refer to guys as being “too pretty”.

 

[confident afc]

what does it mean when they look at you then lock eyes with you and don't smile or anything I always look away first when they do that...

girls make eye contact with me all the time id say 90% of the time I look away first though...its just so hard for me to actually say something or gesture when i dont see a positive reaction to the glances, they just stay neutral

 

[J. Darko]

Haha. You might be ugly. I'm quite the opposite. What brought me to this site many years ago was that I couldn't initiate game. I had to wait for women to approach me...which is far too inconsistent to rely on.

And as a fairly attractive man, I do get looks from women, but I don't walk down the streets of my city with chicks giving me a death stare the whole way. Do you do that when YOU see hot girls? Stare them down like a serial killer? I glance at them once to see if they respond, maybe then I look away. And then I approach or don't approach.

Yes, I'm told I hold eye contact for too long. Now I don't make eye contact at all when walking the streets. Strangers are not going to sleep with me anyway. And if I want to get to know a stranger, it doesn't matter if she looks or I look. It only matters wether you say hi or not.

You are ugly though, because if you can say hi to girl, all you have to do is say your name to buy a few seconds for her to decide wether she wants to sleep with you. I'm afraid not to many women got their panties wet, or else you'd rather spent your time fingerbanging Suzy from next door than replying to my post.

 

[Iceberg]

Yes, I'm told I hold eye contact for too long. Now I don't make eye contact at all when walking the streets. Strangers are not going to sleep with me anyway. And if I want to get to know a stranger, it doesn't matter if she looks or I look. It only matters wether you say hi or not.

You are ugly though, because if you can say hi to girl, all you have to do is say your name to buy a few seconds for her to decide wether she wants to sleep with you. I'm afraid not to many women got their panties wet, or else you'd rather spent your time fingerbanging Suzy from next door than replying to my post.

I'm like phantom of the opera. All i need is my mask and my piano and I'm set.

 

[J. Darko]

J. Darko, why don't you clarify your statement a bit? The way you said that, it sounds like you're saying that the better-looking you are, the more girls you will acquire and vice versa. Since everyone here (with the exception of 3 or 4 guys) knows that to be untrue, would you mind explaining your sources on this? Credible sources, mind you. The people writing the journals and articles had better at least have ph.D's and a Nobel Prize or two would be nice.

Sure. Look at these scientific studies below. And here's a book by Gordon L. Patzer Ph.D. It's called The Power and Paradox of Physical Attractiveness. Has tons of references to scientific studies as well.

Book


http://books.google.nl/books?id=qQX...&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false


Studies

# ^ a b c Buss, David (2003) [1994] (hardcover). The Evolution of Desire (second ed.). New York: Basic Books. pp. 57, 58, 60–63.
# ^ Stephen J. Dubner (July 9, 2007). "The Science of Large Breasts, and Other Evolutionary Verities". The New York Times. http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.c...asts-and-other-evolutionary-verities/?apage=3. Retrieved 2009-11-06.
# ^ Symons D. 1995. Beauty is in the adaptations of the beholder: the evolutionary psychology of human female sexual attractiveness. In Sexual Nature, Sexual Culture: Chicago Series on Sexuality, History, and Society, ed. PR Abramson, SD Pinkerton, pp. 80–119. Chicago: Univ. Chicago Press
# ^ Abigail Trafford, Andrew Cherlin (March 6, 2001). "Second Opinion: Men's Health & Marriage". Washington Post. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/liveonline/01/health/health0306.htm. Retrieved 2009-11-06. "The major reason for the imbalance between men and women in the later decades of life is because men tend to marry younger women as they get older."
# ^ Maxims or Myths of Beauty? A meta-analytic and theoretical review," J.H. Langlois, L. Kalakanis, A.J. Rubenstein, A. Larson, M. Hallam, & M. Smoot, Psychological Bulletin, 2000, 126, 390-423.
# ^ Lorenz, Kate. (2005). "Do Pretty People Earn More?" www.CNN.com.
# ^ Dion, K., Berscheid, E., Walster, E. (1972). "What is beautiful is good." Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 24(3), 285-290.
# ^ Tall men 'top husband stakes'. BBC News. Retrieved 15 October 2009.
# ^ Daniel Nettle: Women’s height, reproductive success and the evolution of sexual dimorphism in modern humans. The Royal Society. Retrieved 15 October 2009.
# ^ The evolutionary psychology of facial beauty. Rhodes G. Annu Rev Psychol. 2006;57:199-226.
# ^ Glassenberg, AN, Feinberg, DF, Jones, BC, Little, AC, Debruine, LM.(2009) Sex-Dimorphic Face Shape Preference in Heterosexual and Homosexual Men and Women. Arch Sex Behavior. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19830539)
# ^ Perrett, D. I., Lee, K. J., Penton-Voak, I. S., Rowland, D. R., Yoshikawa, S., Burt, D. M., Henzi, S. P., Castles, D. L. & Akamatsu, S. (1998). Effects of sexual dimorphism on facial attractiveness. Nature, 394, 884-887. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v394/n6696/full/394884a0.html
# ^ Male facial appearance signals physical strength to women. Fink B, Neave N, Seydel H. Am J Hum Biol. 2007 Jan-Feb;19(1):82-7.
# ^ Does sexual dimorphism in human faces signal health? Rhodes G, Chan J, Zebrowitz LA, Simmons LW. Proc Biol Sci. 2003 Aug 7;270 Suppl 1:S93-5.
# ^ Psychobiology of facial attractiveness. Cellerino A. J Endocrinol Invest. 2003;26(3 Suppl):45-8.
# ^ Tim Radford (17 August 2005). "How women dream of symmetrical men". London: The Guardian. http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/aug/17/genderissues.research. Retrieved 2010-01-19. "The research once again confirms a hypothesis that beauty is not merely in the eye of the beholder: it is an indicator of genetic fitness. From a choice of computer-generated faces, volunteers routinely choose the most symmetrical as the most attractive. Physical symmetry is interpreted as a sign of good inheritance. And therefore, the theory goes, women in a position to conceive would be more attracted to someone more likely to engender the healthiest offspring."
# ^ a b Stephen Khan and Roger Dobson (2 October 2005). "A symmetrical face isn't just prettier - it's healthier too". London: The Independent: Science. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...-just-prettier--its-healthier-too-509285.html. Retrieved 2010-01-19. "For the perfectly proportioned face is also an indication that the body it sits atop is well prepared to fight off infection. The common cold, asthma and flu are all more likely to be combated efficiently by those whose left side matches their right."
# ^ Physical attractiveness: The influence of selected torso parameters" in Archives of Sexual Behavior Volume 10, No 1 1981.
# ^ http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article855409.ece Women seduced by ‘V man’ with a matted chest from www.timesonline.com.
# ^ a b Dixson, A. F. Halliwell, G. East, R. Wignarajah, P. Anderson, M. J. Archives of Sexual Behavior February 2003 Volume 32 Number 1 pp.29-39.
# ^ Pierce C. A. 1996; Cunningham, M.R. 1990; Pawlowski B, Dunbar RI, Lipowicz A 2000.
# ^ a b c Buss, David (2003) [1994] (hardcover). The Evolution of Desire (second ed.). New York: Basic Books. pp. 38–40.
# ^ Sohn, E. Health, Nov2005, Vol. 19 Issue 9.
# ^ a b Biol Lett. 2009 Oct 23;5(5):606-9. How universal are human mate choices? Size does not matter when Hadza foragers are choosing a mate. Sear R, Marlowe FW.
# ^ http://www.springerlink.com/content/y520080w61511h1m/ Human Physique and Sexual Attractiveness in Men and Women: A New Zealand-U.S. Comparative Study. Dixson BJ, Dixson AF, Bishop PJ, Parish A. Arch Sex Behav. 2009
# ^ Studies of human physique and sexual attractiveness: sexual preferences of men and women in China. Dixson BJ, Dixson AF, Li B, Anderson MJ. Am J Hum Biol. 2007 Jan-Feb;19(1):88-95.
# ^ "Women's choice of men goes in cycles". BBC News. 1999-06-24. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/376321.stm. Retrieved 30 November 2006.

I'm like phantom of the opera. All i need is my mask and my piano and I'm set.

Phantom of the Opera huh. I got to try that. I'm not having a lot of succes with the spiderman mask.

 

[Just a Shot Away]

http://books.google.nl/books?id=qQX...&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

You must be out of your mind if you think I'm about to scour an entire book for your "evidence." Cite some quotes where he says that females care more about facial symmetry than confidence and then we'll talk.

Studies

Stephen J. Dubner (July 9, 2007). "The Science of Large Breasts, and Other Evolutionary Verities". The New York Times.

One of the opening lines: "One reason, Kanazawa said, is that beauty is a more valuable trait for a female, and is therefore accentuated in females via natural selection."

"Second Opinion: Men's Health & Marriage". Washington Post.

Very little about the topic in this article, except this quote: "Men care more about partners looks than women"


Dude, you suck. This is the best you could come up with? I clicked 2 of your links and they both presented evidence of why looks don't matter to women. Back to the drawing board you go. You could also just save yourself some time and own up to smoking some crack rocks you found in a filthy alley somewhere before you posted that, and that Darwin knows more about sexual selection than you do. That's just my advice though. You're free to go back to Google.